Author Topic: Uploading to IS to get onto TS - Your opinion (Read 23430 times)

ACS · « **Reply #25 on:** October 19, 2013, 15:33 »

Quote from: VKir on October 19, 2013, 14:59

Quote from: ACS on October 19, 2013, 13:59
Could somebody please tell me how will I find my portfolio in TS?

I have 500 on IS but I wonder how much of them are on IS. I found one of mine on TS but there was no info/link about the artist.

Enter in search box ‘Your Name’.
Write ‘ ‘. Do not write “ “

Thank you. (484 in TS out of 510)

heywoody · « **Reply #26 on:** October 19, 2013, 15:45 »

Quote from: ShadySue on October 19, 2013, 15:31

Quote from: heywoody on October 19, 2013, 15:23
and not unique to IS - all sites levy tax on US sales (fortunately @ 0% here)
I thought iS did not have that US tax thing because they are a Canadian company.

Actually, never had to fill in a form @ IS and could be wrong (was just referencing an earlier post)

Doing a bit of uploading & the unabashed dictionary doesn't recognise "toon" as cartoon but does have the newcastle reference

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #27 on:** October 19, 2013, 15:57 »

Quote from: heywoody on October 19, 2013, 15:45

Quote from: ShadySue on October 19, 2013, 15:31
Quote from: heywoody on October 19, 2013, 15:23
and not unique to IS - all sites levy tax on US sales (fortunately @ 0% here)
I thought iS did not have that US tax thing because they are a Canadian company.

Actually, never had to fill in a form @ IS and could be wrong (was just referencing an earlier post)

Doing a bit of uploading & the unabashed dictionary doesn't recognise "toon" as cartoon but does have the newcastle reference

iS, Alamy, Panthermedia, Scanstock .... any site that is not US-based does not charge the tax.

ShadySue · « **Reply #28 on:** October 19, 2013, 16:02 »

Quote from: heywoody on October 19, 2013, 15:45

Doing a bit of uploading & the unabashed dictionary doesn't recognise "toon" as cartoon but does have the newcastle reference

I'd never call a cartoon a 'toon', and I have no idea about Newcastle. Is Newcastle-upon-Tyne really called 'Toon'? ¹ Here Toon means 'town', and my eastern relatives said 'going to the toon' meaning Edinburgh.

¹ Oh, apparently it's a nickname for Newcastle United football team. Well, that's my something learned for the day, but it's not very useful. I bet for that very reason it will stick in my head, pushing out a hard-learned PS shortcut.

sharpshot · « **Reply #29 on:** October 19, 2013, 16:44 »

There's often a disturbing view of a Newcastle supporter stripped to the waist in the middle of winter on Match of the Day. Don't click on this if you've got any sense

http://atouchfarvetched.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/toon-crowd-shot.jpg

bunhill · « **Reply #30 on:** October 19, 2013, 17:30 »

Quote from: heywoody on October 19, 2013, 15:45

never had to fill in a form @ IS and could be wrong (was just referencing an earlier post)

Perhaps I was not clear enough:

The point is that contributors to sites like SS and BS which are only US based and do not have international offices are required to pay US taxes if they are from countries which do not have a tax treaty with the US.

heywoody · « **Reply #31 on:** October 19, 2013, 17:44 »

Quote from: ShadySue on October 19, 2013, 16:02

Quote from: heywoody on October 19, 2013, 15:45
Doing a bit of uploading & the unabashed dictionary doesn't recognise "toon" as cartoon but does have the newcastle reference
I'd never call a cartoon a 'toon', and I have no idea about Newcastle. Is Newcastle-upon-Tyne really called 'Toon'? ¹ Here Toon means 'town', and my eastern relatives said 'going to the toon' meaning Edinburgh.

¹ Oh, apparently it's a nickname for Newcastle United football team. Well, that's my something learned for the day, but it's not very useful. I bet for that very reason it will stick in my head, pushing out a hard-learned PS shortcut.

There is the story about some manager / pundit who had to make an apology having joked about beckham thinking the tsunami disaster damage was was caused by newcastle supporters (toon army) - on the toon thing - never saw roger rabbit?

@bhr - totally misinterpreted your post $:-\$

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #32 on:** October 19, 2013, 23:03 »

Quote from: bhr on October 19, 2013, 17:30

Quote from: heywoody on October 19, 2013, 15:45
never had to fill in a form @ IS and could be wrong (was just referencing an earlier post)

Perhaps I was not clear enough:

The point is that contributors to sites like SS and BS which are only US based and do not have international offices are required to pay US taxes if they are from countries which do not have a tax treaty with the US.

But only for licenses which were sold to US customers, so your calculation was meaningless because it didn't take account of the proportion of sales that are non-US. In fact, the average amount of tax paid is closer to 3% than 30%,

The point about tax also only really makes sense on the assumption that US residents (and residents of countries with a tax treaty with the US) are not liable for any tax on their earnings, which certainly isn't the case for the UK. The 3% average from US-based sites is the only tax I have to pay on my earnings because I happen to live somewhere without income tax. A UK resident, despite not paying taxes to the US because of the double-taxation treaty, is probably paying 25% or so in the UK on ALL earnings. I presume US citizens pay something similar.

It makes no sense to treat tax as if it were part of the agency commission. If you want to do that, then you have to adjust all the commission levels for whatever income tax people become liable to because of the earnings (which varies, of course). In any case, arguing that 38c is less than 28c because there might be witholding tax on the 38%, while ignore the income tax that the 28c may be liable for is just false reasoning.

I'm one of the few cases where your argument might work - if the average tax on SS sales was the full 30% overall, but it's actually only about 3%, so my 38c sales average out at 36c, which is certainly more than 28c. QED.

bunhill · « **Reply #33 on:** October 20, 2013, 04:31 »

@Baldrick

Your point about the taxes only being levied on a small proportion of sales is useful. I am surprised that only 10% of your SS sales are US and wonder whether that is typical. I think I have always assumed that the US market represented a much larger slice of SS's business.

With respect to what people would otherwise be required to pay in taxes, the picture is much more variable and layered depending on the how and where. For many people living in non treaty countries any US deduction will represent an additional take - since they would either not be taxed at all on this income or else, more likely, they will then be further taxed by their own authorities.

I agree that US tax should not be treated as if it were an agency commission. But it makes no difference: Many people are going to get a better deal on those sales if they can make them through an agency which is not based in the US.

But - to reiterate - I take your point about the take being actually only about 3% in your case. That is useful information. So thanks.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #34 on:** October 20, 2013, 04:46 »

I think there is a strong cultural effect on the location of sales. For example, my travel images feature Europe and the Middle East. Advertisers in the US are more likely to want pictures of the Grand Canyon than of Crete, which only someone in the US can supply. My food images reflect a similar bias towards European tastes. So SS may be much stronger in the US than worldwide, but my subjects may not appeal to the American market.

Another point is that you say "many" people would benefit through having sales that did not go through a US agency - but I doubt that. The US has double-taxation treaties with about 70 countries, including China, India, Russia, Indonesia, all or nearly all of the EU. The places that don't seem to be covered are the Gulf States, parts of sub-Saharan Africa and a variety of small island states. I doubt if there are more than a handful of contributors from those parts of the world.

In any case, the assumption that you can "make those sales" through, say, iS if you choose not to be on SS to try to avoid the tax is wrong. I think Yuri has demonstrated that if people can't get his shots on SS, they will simply buy from one of his rivals.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #35 on:** October 20, 2013, 06:56 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on October 19, 2013, 06:26

I think sharpshot is wrong about collection size. TS is not just fed from iS, it has piles of other Getty stuff in it too, it is already huge, but it still delivers results.

After this month's poor performance on SS I finally uploaded stuff to iS again yesterday, primarily to get it through to TS. Also, if SS is going to go down the tubes I may even have to consider exclusivity one day, in which case I wouldn't want to have a huge gap in uploads there.

is SS doing so poorly and iStock so well so you can consider exclusivity? even after all they have done and continue doing? didn't see that coming Paul, sure its a future prediction of yours but still a wild decision!

bunhill · « **Reply #36 on:** October 20, 2013, 07:32 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on October 20, 2013, 04:46

The US has double-taxation treaties with about 70 countries, including China, India, Russia, Indonesia, all or nearly all of the EU.

You know that for contributors in some treaty countries the rate is not zero - ie taxes are still deducted by the USA.

All other things being equal, the ideal would be to deal with agencies based in countries which do not impose these taxes.

Mantis · « **Reply #37 on:** October 20, 2013, 08:02 »

Quote from: VKir on October 19, 2013, 14:59

Quote from: ACS on October 19, 2013, 13:59
Could somebody please tell me how will I find my portfolio in TS?

I have 500 on IS but I wonder how much of them are on IS. I found one of mine on TS but there was no info/link about the artist.

Enter in search box ‘Your Name’.
Write ‘ ‘. Do not write “ “

You can do it either way, both work. If your name is Clint Eastwood, type in the search "clint eastwood", or you may also have to use your user name at Istock in the same way. So if your user name is superman, type "superman".

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #38 on:** October 20, 2013, 08:06 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on October 20, 2013, 06:56

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on October 19, 2013, 06:26
I think sharpshot is wrong about collection size. TS is not just fed from iS, it has piles of other Getty stuff in it too, it is already huge, but it still delivers results.

After this month's poor performance on SS I finally uploaded stuff to iS again yesterday, primarily to get it through to TS. Also, if SS is going to go down the tubes I may even have to consider exclusivity one day, in which case I wouldn't want to have a huge gap in uploads there.

is SS doing so poorly and iStock so well so you can consider exclusivity? even after all they have done and continue doing? didn't see that coming Paul, sure its a future prediction of yours but still a wild decision!

It's certainly no more than a thought at the moment but it's best to keep doors open. It's not just Shutterstock's performance, it's how all the others are doing, too. SS is really the last pillar holding the roof up: DT is 30% to 50% off its maximum, Alamy seems to be down about 50% from last year, I dumped Fotolia some time ago and would never consider rejoining them, 123 is pretty flat but unimpressive, BS is down 60% from the BME and down 40% from the average around that time. Until this month, SS was holding steady with a slight decline in sales being compensated for by the ELs and SoDs but now it looks as if sales will be down 25% on normal months, though an exceptional SoD may just about keep the cash inside the long-term range.

If everywhere except iS had kept up its peak performance, then my iS/PP sales would only account for about 14% of my income. As it is, it looks as if this month it will be about 20-25%. If SS continues at the download level that I'm seeing this month, then I could easily see iStock producing 25-30% of the income. At that point, a fourfold increase in iStock earnings from going exclusive would look quite decent. My commission rate would double and I think the base sales price for exclusives is something like four times the inde rate (not sure about PP) so it would bear thinking about.

It's very much a last-ditch defensive strategy, though, for trying to scrape the last bit of value out of a dying portfolio/career.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 20, 2013, 08:56 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on October 20, 2013, 08:06

It's very much a last-ditch defensive strategy, though, for trying to scrape the last bit of value out of a dying portfolio/career.

fair enough I guess!

Mantis · « **Reply #40 on:** October 20, 2013, 09:12 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on October 20, 2013, 08:56

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on October 20, 2013, 08:06
It's very much a last-ditch defensive strategy, though, for trying to scrape the last bit of value out of a dying portfolio/career.

fair enough I guess!

Right before the Istock shenanigans started (I think about 2-3 years ago) I was thinking seriously about going exclusive. Then the poo hit the fan and I breathed a BIG SIGH OF RELIEF. Since that time a lot has happened to contributors, most of it, if not all, negatively impacted many IS contributors. That was a lesson learned by me without having to experience the actual transition to exclusivity then back to indy. I always keep my options open, even in the wake of Istock's actions, but exclusivity with them, or any agency for that matter, is a distant consideration. But if a company was strong enough, successful enough, fair enough to contributors, had a good (or better than the 'accept everything' mentality - something like IS used to have until the 999 per day move) curating methodology, I might consider it. But the bigger my port gets across 10 sites the harder that is to actually execute.

lisafx · « **Reply #41 on:** October 20, 2013, 15:59 »

Well Ron, I'm right there on the fence with you. After seeing my PP totals for September, and the fact that they are about 30% up from what they usually are, (and they are usually good) I am thinking I may upload some holiday stuff and see if it makes it into the PP in time for seasonal sales. Depending on the performance of those files, I will decide whether I want to lift my almost year long boycott of uploading to IS

mlwinphoto · « **Reply #42 on:** October 20, 2013, 19:32 »

Quote from: lisafx on October 20, 2013, 15:59

Well Ron, I'm right there on the fence with you. After seeing my PP totals for September, and the fact that they are about 30% up from what they usually are, (and they are usually good) I am thinking I may upload some holiday stuff and see if it makes it into the PP in time for seasonal sales. Depending on the performance of those files, I will decide whether I want to lift my almost year long boycott of uploading to IS

Hey iStock, you listening (or reading)? Contributors, myself included, who have stopped uploading but will reconsider if you can get those images onto the partner sites.....time to get things moving again, perhaps....??

ShadySue · « **Reply #43 on:** October 20, 2013, 19:41 »

Quote from: mlwinphoto on October 20, 2013, 19:32

Quote from: lisafx on October 20, 2013, 15:59
Well Ron, I'm right there on the fence with you. After seeing my PP totals for September, and the fact that they are about 30% up from what they usually are, (and they are usually good) I am thinking I may upload some holiday stuff and see if it makes it into the PP in time for seasonal sales. Depending on the performance of those files, I will decide whether I want to lift my almost year long boycott of uploading to IS
Hey iStock, you listening (or reading)? Contributors, myself included, who have stopped uploading but will reconsider if you can get those images onto the partner sites.....time to get things moving again, perhaps....??

How depressing is this whole concept.

pancaketom · « **Reply #44 on:** October 20, 2013, 21:33 »

Well IS - if you are listening, you will get even more content if you pay a decent percentage for IS sales and a decent amount for subs.

Eco · « **Reply #45 on:** October 21, 2013, 00:29 »

Quote from: mlwinphoto on October 20, 2013, 19:32

Hey iStock, you listening (or reading)? Contributors, myself included, who have stopped uploading but will reconsider if you can get those images onto the partner sites.....time to get things moving again, perhaps....??

I though the connector was broken and no new images from IS are transported over to Thinkstock for months now. Just today as mentioned by someone else in this thread I discover that all my new images are already on Thinkstock, but in a new account. When I search Thinkstock on my "real name" it shows the same number of images for months now. However, when I search on my "IS login name" I find all my new images, even those accepted less than a week ago. I just hope they keep track of my sales there with this duplicate account. With their track record I am always concerned that some sales may be lost in the reporting.

sharpshot · « **Reply #46 on:** October 21, 2013, 04:07 »

Such a shame that TS has so many buyers. I hope they know that it's hard for us to get our images on that site and we have to put up with whatever Getty decide to do with our images. I really don't want to have to upload to istock to get on to TS. Not sure if I'd rather give up on microstock than to have to do things like that to make money.

Ron · « **Reply #47 on:** October 21, 2013, 05:18 »

I think what they could do is activate contributing to TS only for IS contributors, and make an opt in to mirror content to IS. Make the contribution process as easy as SS, CanStockPhoto, GL or 123, and have at it.

ShadySue · « **Reply #48 on:** October 21, 2013, 06:07 »

Well done, iStock.
You undercut your exclusives with indie content, you promote old formerly high-selling images to a higher price bracket which kills them dead and won't allow us to demote them, and now you make your low-cost subs so attractive to former refuseniks that now they're clamouring to get into TS.
Just (expletive deleted) fantastic.

Ron · « **Reply #49 on:** October 21, 2013, 07:27 »

Clamouring? Its a normal discussion. Why are you so bitter about people wanting a bigger income? I am asking for a raise at work every year, sometimes I even get one without asking

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Author Topic: Uploading to IS to get onto TS - Your opinion (Read 23430 times)

ACS

heywoody

BaldricksTrousers

ShadySue

sharpshot

bunhill

heywoody

BaldricksTrousers

bunhill

BaldricksTrousers

luissantos84

bunhill

Mantis

BaldricksTrousers

luissantos84

Mantis

lisafx

mlwinphoto

ShadySue

pancaketom

Eco

sharpshot

Ron

ShadySue

Ron

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