Author Topic: new site for finding keywords for photos (Read 29318 times)

mahroch · « **on:** November 06, 2008, 11:47 »

Hi,
I read some post about keywording service. I liked the idea, but I had special wishes for that. So I created my own page for finding keywords to the images. I used it for a long time for my own purposes and recently my friend presuated me to put it online.

So I did, as you can find out at http://www.findphotokeywords.com/ the design is not the main goal. The features I really liked were:
- ordering the keywords from the most relevant to least
- using different languages for keywords
- final keyword string can be divided for Alamy de_script_ion (50 chars for essential keywords, 300 chars for main, ...)
- multiple searching for images
- remembering my preferencies
and others.

Before you consider this as spam you should k now that I have no money from the site, there are no ads and and I hope it will help people.

If you have any ideas how to improve it, I'm ready to implement them.

Maros

Anyka · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2008, 13:02 »

Great! I love it that the final keywords are NOT put alphabetically!

oboy · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2008, 13:50 »

Awesome! Thank you for creating this website and sharing your tool with us!

melastmohican · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2008, 14:38 »

Great tool and it shows how weird is IStock keywording system ;-)

SS and FT show mostly similar results. Is it possible to search all three combined? I searched for "big sur" so it gave me these keywords:

IS: California, Big Sur, Coastline, Cliff, Pacific Ocean, Scenics, Sea, Beach, Pacific Coast Highway, Rock, Landscape, Nature, Hill, Bridge, Monterey, Route 1, Mountain, USA, Water's Edge, Environment, Sky, Western USA, Vacations, Travel Destinations, Seascape, Journey, Travel, Summer, Non-Urban Scene

SS: big, ocean, coast, sur, california, pacific, usa, sea, cliff, coastline, rocky, nature, landscape, rocks, beach, water, waves, highway, state, hill, park, travel, mountain, west, scenic, tide, western, tourist, coastal, beautiful, romantic, shore

FT: coast, ocean, california, pacific, coastline, sur, beach, blue, big, wave, nature, view, rocks, shore, dramatic, central, big sur, sea, romantic, usa, rocky, tide, america, beautiful, coastal, water, state, colorful, mountain, pfeiffer, park, vacation, cliff, calm, travel, peaceful, landscape, scenic, rock, summer, natural, shoreline

I wish I could combine most popular tags from all three :-)

Destinys Agent · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2008, 14:42 »

That's an excellent tool! I'll use it on my next batch - Many thanks! :-)

goldenangel · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2008, 15:03 »

Great tool! Thank you for creating and sharing it with us!

mahroch · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2008, 15:21 »

I'm glad that you like my page :-)

to melastmohican : technically it is possible. I though of that before. My first tests showed heavy traffic and most of the time I ended with timeout from the engines. That's why it is so far not allowed. I will work on it, but so far one by one ...

Right now I'm experiencin quite heavy traffic, after one month of public service maybe I will need to pay for exceeded traffic

to Anyka: alphabetical order: this was one of the things I didn't like on other sites. However I added the possibility to order keywords alphabetically (form on the right side), but I newer used it ;-) Especially Fotolia wants to have it in order of relevance, as well as Alamy and others.

Do you think that it would be helpfull to implement some more microstocks? Eg. dreamstime, bigstockphoto or any other?

M.

jcpjr · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2008, 15:41 »

Great job...thank you...now add a donation button to help pay for it...it's going to be very popular.

gaja · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2008, 15:45 »

I love your tool, thank you for sharing it!
I would like to see an option to choose keywords from DT.

mahroch · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2008, 15:46 »

I really would like to keep it free. It's doing a good job for me for free, so ...

However, if after some time I'll find out that I exceeded the traffic limit I will find solution.

Donation: as we say: if you like it, tell it to your friends. If you don't like it, tell it to your enemies :-)

M.

mahroch · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2008, 15:50 »

to gaja: Adding DT will take some time, but should be possible. Do you have any special reason why to add DT ? Maybe you just like DT - it would be OK :-)

M.

leaf · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2008, 16:13 »

when displaying the results, the 'unmark all' button doesn't seem to work in FF 3.0.3

leaf · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2008, 16:14 »

another suggestion (i know everyone is full of suggestions when it isn't their own site

) ... make the whole box of the table clickable.. so it is easy clicking - you wouldn't have to be so accurate to click exactly just on the tick box.

mahroch · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2008, 16:23 »

leaf : thanx for comments. any idea is considered well and if possible then implemented. However programmer skills have some limits :-)

I tried to implement the idea of clicking on the image, but so far unsuccesfully, but I do not give up.

Unmark all: I checked it out and unfortunatelly it is true. Neither does work Mark first 50 - I'll try to fix it, in IE it works OK.

M.

No Longer Cares · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2008, 16:29 »

Great tool. Keep up the awesome work. Looks like I have a new keywords tool to use now.

An I agree, you should put something like a donations button or at least some google adwords at the bottom. Just keep the ads out of the way and the tool will still be great. You should make something off the tool. You did a great job.

mahroch · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2008, 16:38 »

to Brandon Seidel: well, I tried it locally, but it takes time to load google ads. And all of the time we need for search engine work. And as well I got crazy wainting till the ads are loaded ...

I will consider donation button at the last page - it is free choice to donate, nobody is annoyed by ads ...

Tomorrow, I go sleep, it is almost midnight over here in Europe ;-)

M.

una · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2008, 16:41 »

Great tool! Thank you.

No Longer Cares · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2008, 16:45 »

You could put the ads in a small frame at the bottom so they do not keep reloading with the code. Then you could put some text for the related ads under it further down so it is hidden in the frame. Just a thought. Good work. Have a good night.

I also put a note in my new blog about it.

digiology · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2008, 17:20 »

Nice job. Works really well. Thanks!

RT · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2008, 17:48 »

That's very clever, I can see some people will be getting very upset though.

One thing I'm not quite sure about, in step 4 you write:

In case you wish to add some keywords, simply write them next to the last one in the area and lick the button after you are finished.

Won't that just leave a smudge mark on your screen

noam · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2008, 18:07 »

It will be my new tool, great job, thanks a lot.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2008, 18:31 »

Nice work!

CofkoCof · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2008, 19:37 »

Nicely done, similar to photokeywors, but has more sites to choose from. Maybe you can add more image when you do a search, currently there's 30 which is not enough since many images don't relate to yours.

le_cyclope · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2008, 22:14 »

Wow, very useful!

Thank you for sharing it!

Claude

UncleGene · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2008, 22:44 »

Very good! And, BTW, I personally would not mind if you add some ads, and will click them if you do (though not too often to avoid you being accused in click fraud)

miskolin · « **Reply #25 on:** November 07, 2008, 02:48 »

Thank you very much for this. I'd also suggest you to put some adds on site or maybe add a donation button, if not more at least for hosting and domain to pay.

I used to learn some programming, but I could never put something like that together. So thank you again and I hope you will spread joy among stock photographers for long time!

RH · « **Reply #26 on:** November 07, 2008, 04:56 »

It´s nice, but i prefer this one. http://arcurs.com/keywording/

mahroch · « **Reply #27 on:** November 07, 2008, 05:05 »

to RH: no problem, you can use whatever you like

as I wrote in my first post, I did mine one because I didn't like some of the features of other sites. For sure others did on their pages good job (especially Yuri Arcurs with all his experience with microstock business), but I needed something different, so I wrote my own search engine ...

M.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #28 on:** November 07, 2008, 05:21 »

Quote from: RH on November 07, 2008, 04:56

It´s nice, but i prefer this one. http://arcurs.com/keywording/

That LuckyOliver search must come in handy

grp_photo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 07, 2008, 06:44 »

The forced /automated alphabetically sorting of photokeywords was my main issue with that site, so i agree this is an improvement. The different languages is also a very nice option photokeywords doesn't have. But there are still some things that are little better resolved at photokeywords like thumbnailclicking , more thumbnails viewable, Retrival count out of more then 5 mil searches display, better and more clearly arranged results-display etc.
So it would be nice if you would continue the developing of the site

Talanis · « **Reply #30 on:** November 07, 2008, 07:08 »

Great tool and very nice work. I agree that you should put a Donate and/or ads to pay for the traffic this tool will generate.

mahroch · « **Reply #31 on:** November 07, 2008, 07:16 »

Hallo everybody,

many thanx for your support.

As we spoke above I added the donation buttons for Paypal and Moneybrookers to the last page (final list of keywords). As well I added small google ad to that page. If you feel so, please use it.

Other main changes I did in meantime:
- thumbnail clicking method - now you can click the image and the checkbox will be marked / unmarked
- defualt number of showed image was changed to 40
- corrected some spelling errors ( now you don't need to "lick" the buttons ;-)
- corrected some small bug in remembering user preferences

I still work on the Unmark all function in FF 3.0 but so far unsuccesfully

Thanx for posting your comments - I will do my best to make it more useful for you.

M.

mahroch · « **Reply #32 on:** November 10, 2008, 10:26 »

As I promised before, I added the search engine for new microstock photobank - DREAMSTIME.

Enjoy

PS: I want to thank to Noam for his donation - the first and only :-)

GeoPappas · « **Reply #33 on:** November 10, 2008, 11:39 »

Thanks for the hard work.

It would be nice if a person could choose images from multiple pages. Sometimes 60 images just aren't enough.

mahroch · « **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2008, 13:49 »

Just an idea: if 60 images is not enough, isn't it a time to specify more the search query ? as well you can pick some images, remember them by clicking to that specific link and search again and possibly be more accurate ...and finally get keywords from all your searches ... you just have to keep in mind that too much images selected (let's say more than 15) could case the timeout of the script ...

I will think of any technical solution of more pages. So far I know that dreamstime offers 80 images on one page so that may be a start point ...

However - now the page traffic is 2 times bigger than on any other of my quite active webpages, which means that if I will find the solution for more images in the same time I will have to start to think about covering the traffic ...

M.

mahroch · « **Reply #35 on:** November 11, 2008, 07:38 »

I did small change on the separating words for Alamy, because I surprisingly realized that Alamy expects the words separated by space, not comma or other symbol. As well they accept quotation marks for keywords made of more words etc. The work on this didn't finish, I want to implement some more things, but the basic is done.

Fran · « **Reply #36 on:** November 11, 2008, 12:21 »

Excellent job, I'll use it. Thanks.

Bateleur · « **Reply #37 on:** November 11, 2008, 14:48 »

Quote from: RH on November 07, 2008, 04:56

It´s nice, but i prefer this one. http://arcurs.com/keywording/

I've been using the Arcurs one, but this one looks a whole load better. I'm going to switch.

Thanks for setting it up, a really great facility.

The only addition I'd suggest is the option of adding your own keywords (as in the Arcurs one) and the program removing any duplicates.

But, apart from that, it's great!

Thanks

mahroch · « **Reply #38 on:** November 11, 2008, 14:59 »

I understand, add the keyword you can do simply by writing it to the text field - it is possible. As I got it this solution miss the function of checking duplications if any of your added keywords is already entered.

It is no problem to add the Add keyword input field. I'll do it in next days.

M.

Bateleur · « **Reply #39 on:** November 11, 2008, 18:06 »

Thanks

petrh · « **Reply #40 on:** November 18, 2008, 04:32 »

Yeah all experience are good but now i am satisfaded with free keywording service on Pixmac.com [nofollow] which write keywording for free. But on Istock [nofollow] i will sell more photos.

CofkoCof · « **Reply #41 on:** November 20, 2008, 13:02 »

Currently you can only search keywords from SS?

mahroch · « **Reply #42 on:** November 20, 2008, 13:08 »

to CofkoCof : you should be able to search :
- shutterstock
- dreamstime
- fotolia
- istockphoto

Do you experience any problems seeing all four of them?

M.

grp_photo · « **Reply #43 on:** November 20, 2008, 13:35 »

Quote from: CofkoCof on November 20, 2008, 13:02

Currently you can only search keywords from SS?

using the "[Remove all my preferencies and selected images]" -link should resolve your problem

mahroch · « **Reply #44 on:** November 20, 2008, 13:39 »

ahh that's true .. this small feature could do it ... if not, just write here. Maybe you have really found a bug ...
M.

CofkoCof · « **Reply #45 on:** November 20, 2008, 14:20 »

Quote from: grp_photo on November 20, 2008, 13:35

Quote from: CofkoCof on November 20, 2008, 13:02
Currently you can only search keywords from SS?
using the "[Remove all my preferencies and selected images]" -link should resolve your problem

Yeah I've figured it out.

Dook · « **Reply #46 on:** December 20, 2008, 15:01 »

Your tool is great, thank you.
Only one question: What is the method you use to calculate most popular(relevant) keywords, how you make this order? And what do these numbers (in the row USED) mean? I mean, it is really great, but how?
THank you!

mahroch · « **Reply #47 on:** December 21, 2008, 04:19 »

To Dook: it is simple - if you search eg. for word dog, you will get different images of dogs. So you pick some images of dogs - let's say 5 images. The system then goes through all the keywords of all 5 images and uses them for calculations. It is obvious that 5 of them will have in the keywords word DOG, let's say 3 of them ANIMAL, and let's say 2 of them PET. So the 'uses' means how often is the word used among all keywords of picked images. Clear now?

If you propone any other method for calculations I can implement it in the new - almost done - version, that will be able to search in multiple microstocks, will have more options for final keywords lits, ... etc. It will be my X-mass surprise but so far needs some more time to be finished :-)

M.

Lcjtripod · « **Reply #48 on:** December 21, 2008, 08:13 »

A real work saver! I will use it regularly!

Thanks!
-Larry

Dook · « **Reply #49 on:** December 21, 2008, 13:47 »

Quote from: mahroch on December 21, 2008, 04:19

To Dook: it is simple - if you search eg. for word dog, you will get different images of dogs. So you pick some images of dogs - let's say 5 images. The system then goes through all the keywords of all 5 images and uses them for calculations. It is obvious that 5 of them will have in the keywords word DOG, let's say 3 of them ANIMAL, and let's say 2 of them PET. So the 'uses' means how often is the word used among all keywords of picked images. Clear now?

If you propone any other method for calculations I can implement it in the new - almost done - version, that will be able to search in multiple microstocks, will have more options for final keywords lits, ... etc. It will be my X-mass surprise but so far needs some more time to be finished :-)

M.

Yes, it is clear now. Thank you. Great job!

mahroch · « **Reply #50 on:** January 02, 2009, 06:41 »

Dear friends,

I updated the webpage to brand new version. New version includes 2 different statuses: registered/unregistered user. Registered users pay for searching (currently 0.05 USD per one search), unregistered don't pay. The big difference is in service you get:

With searching as registered user you will:

* get first 3 paid-version searches free of charge without making any deposit
* get rid of all the ads
* be able to search 4 microstock in one time !!!
* choose the image types to show
* get result of keywords from 4 different microstock photobanks (not a final number ...)
* be able to see up to 80 images from one microstock and up to 200 thumbnails to choose from
* see up to 300 keyword ideas (in case the result returns so many)
* be able to keep your deposit unlimited time
* choose to remember selected images and search for another and finally get the keyword results for all of them
* get the one search cost ( currently 0.05 USD) the same for the rest of the life of your account - even in the case the cost for one search will be raised in future
* and other benefits

I highly recommend to read the info under "You should read this information" at the webpage where I explain all the features, restrictions and other things.

Any ideas are welcomed and I'm looking forward for your reactions.

M.

noam · « **Reply #51 on:** January 05, 2009, 14:46 »

Hi everyone.

I have been using findphotokeywords.com from the first day it was announced here on the forum.

I'm very happy with it. It's a great tool. I have registered, and used it for the past couple of days intensively, with great satisfaction.
I think that all the new options are wonderful. For example, to be able to choose images from multiply sites in the same search is a great improvement.

I strongly believe that it dose improve my sales.

recommended.

Noam

mahroch · « **Reply #52 on:** January 07, 2009, 06:10 »

Hallo to all,

I get some mails with complains that 3 initial searches is not enough for discovering the site.

That's why I decided to rise initial number of free of charge searches from actual 3 to 8. Ihope this is enought to make a good picture about the site and discover the possibilities.

All users already registered will therefore get 5 searches more free of charge.

Enjoy

M.

.shock · « **Reply #53 on:** January 07, 2009, 12:37 »

hehehe... thank you!

Dreamframer · « **Reply #54 on:** January 08, 2009, 04:44 »

Your tool for keywords is really great. I've been using it for some time. But I will go back to Yuri's free tool for now because I don't produce many images and I have enough time to choose right keywords for my images. But I recommend your website to others

DiscreetDuck · « **Reply #55 on:** January 08, 2009, 06:35 »

Congrats, really nice tool.

.shock · « **Reply #56 on:** January 08, 2009, 18:28 »

My congratulations to, really nice tool and big timesaver. Just wish say to everyone that I'm just purchased search credits via moneybookers. It is not official and automatic, instead it is manual but it working well. Mean, credits are there and moneybookers transaction is so simple.

Regards,
BA

mahroch · « **Reply #57 on:** January 10, 2009, 13:25 »

Friends in photography,
I heard an idea: when you have to pay per search and sometimes you need more then one search per image to receive a result that you are happy with, then it can get expensive to keyword a particular image. Some photographers may find it more attractive to pay a subscription fee per year for this service.

Technically should be possible to implement both systems - if you want to pay per search then OK, if you decide to pay by subscription, the Ok as well.

The question is - how much do you think is reasonable charge per month/week/day

Thanks for your opinions and ideas.

Maros

Anyka · « **Reply #58 on:** January 10, 2009, 16:10 »

Well, the question is : how many images does an average user shoot per year? For me, that would be around 1000. If I could use the same keywords for every 5 photos, I would use the keywording feature 200 times per year x 0,05 = 10 dollars. For some one who does more similar photos, like 10 per subject, it would only be 5 dollars.
You could also let the user choose how much he/she wants to pay in advance, and let the site deduct 0,05 per search.

Maros, I just used the site for the first time since I registered. I simply love it that I can search 4 sites in one run!!! Fantastic!
One little bug : if I choose "semicolon + space" or "comma + space", the spaces never show up in the results ...

mahroch · « **Reply #59 on:** January 10, 2009, 16:47 »

Thanks Anyka, I'll check the bug

M.

litifeta · « **Reply #60 on:** January 10, 2009, 16:55 »

cool site. any help is good. I just joined.

Oh, and for those sites that need commas. Just cut and paste the keywords into Word.

Then go Edit>Find>Replace and then press the spacebar in the Find what?

in the Replace with: put in a comma and then press the spacebar

Hit the "replace all" and it will be done for you.

mahroch · « **Reply #61 on:** January 12, 2009, 11:28 »

to litifeta: thanks for joining and idea how to deal with commas.

However - it's a bug :-) I'll correct it asap.

M.

mahroch · « **Reply #62 on:** January 20, 2009, 17:55 »

Hi,

some of you asked me to add some professional photo stocks. Here we go with the first one - I added new microstock to the searching engine - Getty Images.

As well I corrected some minor bugs they appeared while selecting and sorting the final list of keywords.

Thanx to everybody for help - especially to Jansphotos.net and Richard (RTimages).

Enjoy the power of searching 5 photobanks in one time !

M.

mahroch · « **Reply #63 on:** January 23, 2009, 05:35 »

Hallo all,

Few feedbacks lead me to to re-think the subscription type payments. Little counting: let's say you are a productive photographer and you create 10 unique images per day. You go to the site and look for the image. Because you are not perfect you need eg. 15 searches to find the correct keywords for all the images (remember that you use the same keywords for more images in the serie). You work 22 days per month, that gives us 15*22 = 330 searches per month. In actual rating it would cost you 16.5 USD.

Using this mathematics - what would you say to the idea of subscription flat fee 20 USD per month ?

Of course - there still would be the chance to pay for each search (actual setting). So you could choose to pay per search or pay by subscription.

Thanx for feedback

M.

leaf · « **Reply #64 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:03 »

I think $20/month sounds like quite a bit when there is a similar products being offered for free. I am not sure what the right amount would be though.

I tried out the non paid version, and it didn't seem like the 'unselect all words' button was working.

michealo · « **Reply #65 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:39 »

There are at least two free options out there already, at $20 a month you are charging $240 a year
I can't see you getting many takers but I could be wrong

mahroch · « **Reply #66 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:12 »

Thanks for your feedbacks.

Yes, you are right counting how much it is per year as well as counting with other free services like the our one. As you can see the idea of counting came from the average searching amount and cost per search. Your feedback tells me - in other words - that you think 0.05 USD per search is a bit too much. This is a question for me: if you are effective you will need 1-2 searches per one bunch of images. Usually the photographer makes few different images of the same thing, so he can effectively use the same keywords for more images and add only 1-2 words related to specifics of each image. If you count that you pay let's say 0.1 USD per extraordinary keywords for bunch of images I don't see it as too much. Of course if you need a lot of searches for a lot of different images - maybe subscription is better for you.

As well you need to count that you can select the keywords from 5 microstocks (will be more) in one search ! That saves you a lot of your time - comparing 0.1 USD with the free ones where you search only one microstock.

And one more thing - you can decide to pay subscription for one month when you have a lot of photos and the other months you do it as pay-per-search - or according to your needs.

Anyway - the main question is : Do you think subscription is a good idea? If so, what would be optimal amount per month (we can see 20 USD looks like too much for you :-) ?

Thanks for feedback

to leaf : Thanks for information, I'll check the bug.

Maros

michealo · « **Reply #67 on:** January 23, 2009, 19:01 »

Quote from: mahroch on January 23, 2009, 11:12

Thanks for your feedbacks.

Yes, you are right counting how much it is per year as well as counting with other free services like the our one. As you can see the idea of counting came from the average searching amount and cost per search. Your feedback tells me - in other words - that you think 0.05 USD per search is a bit too much. This is a question for me: if you are effective you will need 1-2 searches per one bunch of images. Usually the photographer makes few different images of the same thing, so he can effectively use the same keywords for more images and add only 1-2 words related to specifics of each image. If you count that you pay let's say 0.1 USD per extraordinary keywords for bunch of images I don't see it as too much. Of course if you need a lot of searches for a lot of different images - maybe subscription is better for you.

As well you need to count that you can select the keywords from 5 microstocks (will be more) in one search ! That saves you a lot of your time - comparing 0.1 USD with the free ones where you search only one microstock.

And one more thing - you can decide to pay subscription for one month when you have a lot of photos and the other months you do it as pay-per-search - or according to your needs.

Anyway - the main question is : Do you think subscription is a good idea? If so, what would be optimal amount per month (we can see 20 USD looks like too much for you :-) ?

Thanks for feedback

to leaf : Thanks for information, I'll check the bug.

Maros

I will give you feedback for say a subscription of $20 a month ....
Or a per question basis of $5 a question ....

null · « **Reply #68 on:** January 23, 2009, 20:58 »

Quote from: mahroch on January 23, 2009, 11:12

Anyway - the main question is : Do you think subscription is a good idea? If so, what would be optimal amount per month (we can see 20 USD looks like too much for you :-) ?

Looks like a great idea when you find a way to repay, let's say 95% of it, those people whose hard work of original keywording you're basically scavenging by this clever scheme and making money from it.

mahroch · « **Reply #69 on:** January 25, 2009, 05:28 »

to michealo and FlemishDreams: Guys, I got your point, but there is one point you missed - I don't run the page to profit from it. In other words the fee per search was counted as aliquot part of the cost of web hosting, domain and cost for traffic over the limit. As I wrote in previous messages this page was made for my own purposes and I run it more than year on my local comp and then my friends told me that would be nice to have it publicly accessible. First month (Nov-Dec 2008) I run it for free, but the cost for traffic over the quota was higher than the income from adds and donations. That's why I had to make it other way - pay per search, because you can easily count how much data is transferred in one search. Now I'm looking for ways how to run it as cheap as possible for most of the users.

January is almost over and soon I will get the statistics for cost of traffic. Then I will see if the 'payments' cover the costs. If not, I will close the service, run it locally or let it only for friends - without exceeding the traffic cost.

You can argue with that, but tis is the true behind the fees. Believe it or not - it is up to you.

M.

michealo · « **Reply #70 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:37 »

Data transfer "in" and "out" of Amazon EC2 is $0.17 per GB and respectively $0.10 per GB

You mention a per search figure of 5c which would suggest a dataset of in the hundreds of MB, your code must be hellishly inefficient ...

mahroch · « **Reply #71 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:46 »

michealo : I use different service but I can show you my counts on your example:

Looking at the statistics you tells you that the page counted more than 8200 searches since Jan 1st from which approx. 200 was paid (in fact - it is hard to say exact number, because some of the users got free searches for helping with the tuning so they used it for testing purposes).

Let's say that average amount of images to show is 100 images in one search (non paid 20, paid up to 200, many times applied filter, ...), each image of 7 kbs = 8200 searches * 100 images * 7 kbs = 5,74 GB = traffic just on images + add some traffic with ads and other data transferred in each search can make some 15 GB of traffic per month. (Am I counting right ?)

The lowest prices you can calculate here: http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/calc5.html# , you can enter storage 1 GB, Transfer-in 1 Gb, Transfer-out 20 GB (just to be sure we put some more than needs to be) and 10000 requests PUT/lists and other as well 10000. The price for month is calculated as 3,76 USD per month, which means that 75,2 searches per month per price 5 cents per search should cover it.

All together it means that if I used your favorite service I would earn 200*0.05 - Amazon costs = 6.24 USD. And we still didn't count the domain registering costs and some service setting costs (mailserver setting, ...) which is not much, but still some. Unfortunately I use service which is more expensive, because in the time I published this page I was not so clever and I didn't understand all the things as I do it now. But the 1 year contract is already set so I have to deal with it.

Am I still counting correctly ?

From this point might the flat rate for any amount look too expensive. However - I cannot expect how many searches it could be per month in the flat rate and I need to be sure that it will cover the costs. That's why I asked about it. Maybe the question was wrong and should be : How many searches do you think can productive photographer make per one month ? Then I could count the price of subscription....

M.

Anyka · « **Reply #72 on:** January 25, 2009, 10:56 »

You could also drop the idea of subscriptions, and give a discount to people who pay for searches in advance. Like this : instead of paying 0,05 per search at the moment of the search (or after), the customer could pay for 250 searches in advance and only pay 10 dollars instead of 12,50, which is a discount of 25%.

mahroch · « **Reply #73 on:** January 25, 2009, 11:14 »

In fact the users get the 5% of bought searches as discount (if you pay 5 USD you should get 100 searches, but you get 105, if 50 USD you should get 1000 but you get 1050).

I can make it more progressive - running up to 25 % - if you pay for 100 searches you get 105 (5% bonus), if you pay for 1000 searches you could get 1250 (25% bonus).

This is a good idea.

M.

Valaaami · « **Reply #74 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:25 »

Keywords are intellectual property of the contributor. Your software is stealing these keywords and you are asking money for it? Hmmm... risky.

qwerty · « **Reply #75 on:** January 27, 2009, 03:34 »

I don't think many people will go for 5c per search. Especially when it may take a couple of searches to find ones suitable due to the spamming. Shutterstock most popular is really bad for spam. 40cents at dreamstime to keyword the whole thing.

mahroch · « **Reply #76 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:01 »

to Valaaami: yes, unless you they allow you to do it. But you are right and I will deal with it.

As well many people think that I do it for profit and I really don't need to argue or proof the truth. I wanted to do it as helpful service, but for me there is no reason to put more energy to something that I need every day fight for.

Anyway - most probably the costs will be not covered from the paid searches so the decision is made even easier.

That's why in next days I will close the page for public. Sorry. Active registered members with active deposit can expect special offers for handling the situation.

Thank to all for support.

M.

Valaaami · « **Reply #77 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:00 »

I believe you when you say you are not doing it for profit. And I am sure people love to use the site and they will be very sad if you close it. By the way, it is a great tool and works better then the Arcurs version. But still... it is not really clear legally.
If you would provide this service for free - like the Arcurs site does - it still wouldn't be nice to those people who are investing a lot of energy and money into 'real' keywording, but yes, I think it would be less risky legally.

Anyka · « **Reply #78 on:** January 27, 2009, 10:28 »

I would absolutely miss the site if it would close down!

Especially for us whose native language is not English, a site like this is a real help. For keywording, certainly, but it also enlarges my vocabulary.
If no sites like this existed, I would do the searching manually, so you can call me a keyword-thief also, only a private one. I never copy all keywords of a specific image, because then there's a big chance I would copy irrelevant words, but I do pick up unknown words.
(example : pictures of snails : slug??? I never heard of that word before)

mahroch · « **Reply #79 on:** January 27, 2009, 14:31 »

Anyka: you already proved that I keep my promises. The active user will get special offers, so don't worry, for you will stay the site open unchanged :-)

For public users: I have 2 microstocks they already allowed me to use their keywprds and I work on the rest. Be patient, everything can be solved.

M.

madelaide · « **Reply #80 on:** January 27, 2009, 15:22 »

Quote from: Valaaami on January 27, 2009, 03:25

Keywords are intellectual property of the contributor. Your software is stealing these keywords and you are asking money for it? Hmmm... risky.

Is it really so? I think it's exagerated to consider keywords an "intellectual property" or call Maros' tool "stealing keywords". I agree however that it doesn't look fair to do this for a charge. A donation system sounds more correct.

Regards,
Adelaide

mahroch · « **Reply #81 on:** January 27, 2009, 15:33 »

to madelaide : the history of the page shows that with donations and ads it doesn't work

In fact, there were exactly 3 donations during Nov. 11th - Jan 1st. 2008. Anyka's extraordinary donation among them...

Looks like asking the microstocks for permission to use the keywords is the way - but for now it is too soon to talk about it ...

M.

StockManiac · « **Reply #82 on:** January 27, 2009, 16:12 »

See what happens when you try and help people.

How dare you!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone now sues you for taking the site down.

RT · « **Reply #83 on:** January 27, 2009, 18:47 »

Quote from: Valaaami on January 27, 2009, 03:25

Keywords are intellectual property of the contributor. Your software is stealing these keywords and you are asking money for it? Hmmm... risky.

Keywords would not be considered an original literary work, and they do not form part of the copyright that applies to the image.
And how can he be stealing something that anybody could freely use anyway, irrespective of the source.

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