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Poll

Who has the most potential of being one of the next big 6 - you get three votes.

Featurpics
33 (13.6%)
LuckyOliver
37 (15.2%)
Albumo
7 (2.9%)
Snap Village
56 (23%)
Canstock
4 (1.6%)
Crestock
40 (16.5%)
Bigstock
66 (27.2%)

Total Members Voted: 110

Author Topic: Who has most potential for 2008  (Read 17927 times)

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« on: December 23, 2007, 10:15 »
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who do you think?  Remember you can choose 3


« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2007, 12:35 »
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seems like many of us expect snapvillage to perform better this year.
I haven't signed up with them yet because I've  been waiting things to settle down there but I shall sign up ssoon and upload some files as I too expect them to be better in 2008.

« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 12:38 »
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I chose Snap only because of the backing and ultimate potential -- maybe in 2008. So far its been merely incompetent.

« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2007, 13:04 »
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LuckyOliver (if they can get their act together and start marketing)
Crestock
Snapvillage

« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2007, 13:13 »
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Snapvillage has an obvious potential. I just had my first 10 dollar sale there, and they're still in beta.

Featurpics, but only if photographers helps by promoting their portfolio there. For me, that's an obvious thing to do since they generate the best profit per sale.

Bigstock has been developing nicely, and with their new price structure, they have the potential to become a proper earner.

And as for Lucky Oliver: to me, the only thing they have proved so far, is that they are good at designing websites. Unfortunately, their abilities to sell my images are close to zero. It's like driving a Ferrari with no engine: completely useless.

« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2007, 13:20 »
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Snapvillage has an obvious potential. I just had my first 10 dollar sale there, and they're still in beta.

Featurpics, but only if photographers helps by promoting their portfolio there. For me, that's an obvious thing to do since they generate the best profit per sale.

Bigstock has been developing nicely, and with their new price structure, they have the potential to become a proper earner.

And as for Lucky Oliver: to me, the only thing they have proved so far, is that they are good at designing websites. Unfortunately, their abilities to sell my images are close to zero. It's like driving a Ferrari with no engine: completely useless.
Agree

« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2007, 15:54 »
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Well. I'll tell you where I think the best growth will be, and it won't be the answer you first think of..... or even your second or third answer...

Clearly SlapperTown has huge potential, but that potential won't be realised with the present management; the venture lacks commitment and enthusiasm, and without those it will fail to make the spectacular progress Corbis is capable of.

And no, I don't think BigStock will suddenly emerge as a major player - it is a privately owned company and appears shackled by lack of funding and inability to grow the customer base.  I like the people very much, but I don't think its going to suddenly change.

No - in my opinion the area that will show the best growth will be.....

.....being an exclusive photographer at iStock (see, I told you it would be a surprise).

Why do I think this?  Firstly, iStock's customer base has risen over the past year from 1.4 million to 2.7 million; so instead of it suffering from competition, the competition has caused it to thrive.  I spend a lot of time reading the iStock forums; there are a lot of designers there, and a clear message is coming through, which is that the more small agencies that get launched, and the more photographers who promotoe their wares through six, eight or even sixteen agencies, the more the customers are reacting against it and buying exclusive through iStock.  Designers are becoming 'fed up' with seeing the same pictures at mulitple agencies; they say it devalues their professionalism; customers can find these same pictures splashed all over the internet at hundreds of small agencies at differing prices; the designers are becoming 'embarrassed'.  Time and again I see comments from designers that they don't want to use pictures that are splashed everywhere, and at least with iStock exclusive stuff they know it is only available in one place.

People complain that iStock gives its exclusives an unfair advantage, but what they overlook is the demands from the buyers - the buyers increasingly want the exclusive pictures, and they want iStock to place an even greater emphasis on those.

So while many photographers spend hours uploading to multiple agencies, and as more and more new small agencies jump on the bandwagon, the people who will flourish the most will be the iStock exclusives.

The agency I think will show the greatest DECLINE in 2008 (relative to the industry) is Shutterstock as it becomes a victim of its own business strategy.


PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2007, 17:03 »
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Hatman, am I reading that right that you went exclusive at IS?

« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2007, 18:58 »
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Funny that nobody is discussing BigStock, as it's the 2nd place in the poll so far.

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2007, 21:05 »
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Hey, what about Zymmetrical ? according to Alexa we have more traffic than snapvillage. And we haven't really started yet...

Happy holiday all  !!!

grp_photo

« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2007, 01:19 »
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Wow Hatman,
you eat every Propaganda ;D
I agree with you on the struggle on SS i personally don't care as i never liked the model. I also agree that IS is still the strongest in the game.
But the rest is nonsense. There is no exclusivity with RF if a buyer wants exclusivity the only sure way is RM.
There are some DieHards-Istockers on the iStock Forums but these few dozen buyers are NOT representative for 99.9% of the buyers (the forums over there are manipulated and censored i hope that is not new to you).
There are serious reasons to go exclusive with iStock but don't eat this crappy propaganda about buyers driven away by non-exclusive that is plain crap.
You also totally underestimate the rise of StockXpert i'm not sure about snapvillage either but i'm sure about StockXpert the will be hardest competitor for iStock in the long-term.
See in you two years  ;)

« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2007, 06:26 »
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The agency I think will show the greatest DECLINE in 2008 (relative to the industry) is Shutterstock as it becomes a victim of its own business strategy.



I don't agree with you on every point, but on this one, I'm with you. SS used to grow like an explosion. Now, I'm looking at my worst month this year, and the reason is obvious: they have flooded the market with ultra-cheap images. Now, everybody have them, and don't need to download more.

« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2007, 06:28 »
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No, I'd have to partly agree with Hatman on this occasion. Shutterstock is in steady decline and while I don't think going exclusive with IS is the answer to declining revenues, there are one or two other players that need to be looked at carefully, specifically FO and StockXpert.

StockXpert in particular has proven to be a mighty good earner this year and they've now raised the bar considerably which is a very important move.

« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2007, 08:40 »
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I agree that Shutterstock is declining. I also agree that StockXpert is booming. I am constantly having BMEs there and this month, despite the holidays, is no exception. Keep up the good work StockXpert. If they were to introduce a nice exclusivity bonus like Istock has, that could be another possibility for the future. (And they aren't a bitch to upload to like Istock)

« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2007, 09:52 »
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I spend a lot of time reading the iStock forums; there are a lot of designers there, and a clear message is coming through, which is that the more small agencies that get launched, and the more photographers who promotoe their wares through six, eight or even sixteen agencies, the more the customers are reacting against it and buying exclusive through iStock.  Designers are becoming 'fed up' with seeing the same pictures at mulitple agencies; they say it devalues their professionalism; customers can find these same pictures splashed all over the internet at hundreds of small agencies at differing prices; the designers are becoming 'embarrassed'.  Time and again I see comments from designers that they don't want to use pictures that are splashed everywhere, and at least with iStock exclusive stuff they know it is only available in one place.

Yes IS is a leader... no, they don't have the entire market wrapped up as demonstrated by the fact that many of the other agencies are growing.

You're reading forums that have a TINY percentage of the designer market... and not everyone buying images from these agencies is a designer. I am constantly talking to people who still have no idea that there even is a market - and exposure to this market is still exploding.

My personal opinion is that it is a mistake to put all of your eggs in one basket - especially with the huge mistakes that have been made by management. (but then again, i know several exclusives that are making a ton of money so maybe i'm the fool?)

« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2007, 10:36 »
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I will go exclusive with any major agency that agrees to handle only my images.

With such dynamic changes in this industry in my opinion those who are exclusive anywhere are the most vulnerable to adverse changes.

Stock investors are wise enough to never buy just one stock.

« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2007, 11:08 »
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I actually like the idea of being exclusive to a site but current market situation makes me think it is  still better to remain non-exclusive for the moment.but if things change and there is a good  exclusive model I'd seriously consider it.

edit:
btw what if the sites decides to have only exclusive photographers,I guess that couldn't happen soon but may be in a near future,who knows?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 11:11 by stokfoto »

« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2007, 11:55 »
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I'm interested in what people think about i-stock after the price increases, in theory if other agencies don't raise their prices going exclusive at istock and getting an even bigger piece of a bigger pie might look more enticing. Maybe 2008 will be an istock year.  Here's hoping this is just a first step in agencies putting more value on their collections as the quality gets better and better.

« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2007, 05:57 »
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I will go exclusive with any major agency that agrees to handle only my images.

louoates.com is still free - what keeps you? ;-)

« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 10:26 »
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You know this upcoming pay increase at IS is starting to make sense. They must feel confident enough that a price increase will be absorbed by the designers because they know that they are coming to IS for exclusive content. This might be a reason to go exlcusive at any agency. If you have built up a big enough portfolio and some loyal customers the shift to exclusive could be a way to bring a larger percentage of sales. I think I've only heard of a couple examples of IS exclusives becoming unexclusive, but most have been very happy they made the switch. The only thing I don't like about IS exclusivity is that you can't upload your rejects elsewhere. All is not lost though, since you can sell your rejects as RM on Alamy (which IS does allow you to do).


« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 17:34 »
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BigStock now leads the poll, and nobody comments it.  :)

I voted for BigStock because it has shown a constant flow of sales to me. Not a huge flow, but constant, unlike any other in the poll.

Now, do I think it will get better? Not much, but the new price plan was a neat change.

And I voted for FP also because it let me set my price, RFxRM, and give me smart tools to market my images.

Regards,
Adelaide
« Last Edit: December 26, 2007, 17:38 by madelaide »

« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 19:06 »
0
hi,

without in depth looking at their financial status and management plans, ideals etc etc, I feel that each of these sites (and a number of others) has the potential to become a very serious player by this time next year, I think they each also have the capacity to fall in a heap and disappear.

A thought for the sake of discussions (re the istock exclusive discussion).

Istock have also gone very hard on their inspection.  The acceptance rate is quite low for many people, if this continues there will be considerable content that istock doesn't have that others do, would that then give others some advantage counter to istock exclusivity (yes it may be lower quality, but still good enough (hmm one of the main arguments for microstock in the beginning?) ie a divergence of content that may bring people to the other major players as the content becomes different.

also I find the idea of saying I dont want overdone images interesting.  I am starting to find on istock that images with 0-few sales struggle, once it has more, it grows and grows (seem right to other people???).   looking through images in the database, one images will have hundreds of sales and one very similar will only have a few, even when they come up on the same page.  It appears that people tend to buy the image with lots of sales, maybe??? they think it must be good or better because lots of other people have bought it????


Phil





« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 19:45 »
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All is not lost though, since you can sell your rejects as RM on Alamy (which IS does allow you to do).

You can sell RM at FP as well.

« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2007, 13:39 »
0
BigStock now leads the poll, and nobody comments it.  :)

I voted for BigStock because it has shown a constant flow of sales to me. Not a huge flow, but constant, unlike any other in the poll.

Now, do I think it will get better? Not much, but the new price plan was a neat change.

And I voted for FP also because it let me set my price, RFxRM, and give me smart tools to market my images.

Regards,
Adelaide

Perhaps the reason is because Bigstock has been around the longest and is seeming pretty stagnant.  they have been in about 7th place for the last 2 years.

« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2008, 05:38 »
0
For me Big Stock is a rising star.
I give them the vote.

« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2008, 07:20 »
0
I think SV has the most potential. I cannot see that BS should have the most potential for 2008. Since I started there 2 years ago sales/image have not increased considerabely. So why should they in 2008?. Their website is also the same I first saw in 2005 or was is 2004.

« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2008, 08:14 »
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I voted for SV because they should have money to attract customers through advertising and special offers.

Crestock because I have seen they are spending money on advertising and they have a great site.

Bigstock because they are already in my big 6.

The other 3 sites haven't shown signs of attracting enough buyers yet.

« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2008, 09:26 »
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Bigstock

gbcimages

« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2008, 10:59 »
0
BS SV AND MAYBE  FP

« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2008, 11:21 »
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Have no idea.

However,  I believe the site that will disappoint most in 2008 will be SnapVillage. Just as in 2007.

« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2008, 18:24 »
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wow, surprising how many people are counting on Bigstock.

i think i might put my money on crestock - they seem to be the only ones on the move.  Snapvillage SHOULD have potential, but they are not showing themselves off too well so far.

It will be interesting to look at this thread again in 12 months.

vonkara

« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2008, 18:33 »
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Bigstock is doing great this month so far for me. Sure that they will get bigger. They are called BIGstock. That was a poor metaphor...

« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2008, 18:57 »
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I have 10 straight days without sales on BS. No! I would say SS, since it earns me more than the rest combined.


« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2008, 06:27 »
0
My insider`s Tip is Zoonar. The first Stock with all three price sektors (microstock, midstock, macrostock) and a really new concept. They offer new price-combinations for art-Buyers who want do a mix of macro- and microstock photos and compare booths sektors in quality to make a choice. I also like the maximum percantage of 80% for my pics  ;D

But.. they just started in the beginning of 2007 and get photos mostly from german-photographers. the english site is up since two months and there are not many traffic yet. I have some nice sellings there, but nothing in microstock, it was midstock for 10-40 Euros. Only sellings in german countries and not many.

But it is a really new concept (and we have not many ideas, the most new agencys only try to get a piece from the microstock cake) and they have a amazing growth of photos this makes me staying there...

« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 06:31 by Michael »

« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2008, 09:05 »
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My insider`s Tip is Zoonar. The first Stock with all three price sektors (microstock, midstock, macrostock) and a really new concept.

How is this new?  Featurepics let us choose any price and have different license options.

« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2008, 12:24 »
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Will over 5000 images in my portfolio I think I can make a statistically sound prediction.... :) Among the new ones, I would vote for SnapVillage, LuckyOliver and .... umm.... well... Crestock (although their 25c subscription sales is what carrying them forward right now, I don't see it lasting or leading to serious growth). 
As to the Bigstock, my sales there are 30% down of that it used to be. Nice site, but they do need to invest in advertising more and attracting traffic. Sadly, Canstockphoto is 50% down of what it used to be... same problem there seems like.

Among the "big-6" ones, Istock is ahead of the game, followed closely by Fotolia. SS is a disappointment - still selling, but I do see a noticeable decline. 123RF has been doing better and better, I would hold hopes for them too. Both DS and SX are consistent, not doing worse, but not doing any better. I wish they showed a bit more of a growth.

« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2008, 19:24 »
0
Will over 5000 images in my portfolio I think I can make a statistically sound prediction.... :) Among the new ones, I would vote for SnapVillage, LuckyOliver and .... umm.... well... Crestock (although their 25c subscription sales is what carrying them forward right now, I don't see it lasting or leading to serious growth). 
As to the Bigstock, my sales there are 30% down of that it used to be. Nice site, but they do need to invest in advertising more and attracting traffic. Sadly, Canstockphoto is 50% down of what it used to be... same problem there seems like.

Among the "big-6" ones, Istock is ahead of the game, followed closely by Fotolia. SS is a disappointment - still selling, but I do see a noticeable decline. 123RF has been doing better and better, I would hold hopes for them too. Both DS and SX are consistent, not doing worse, but not doing any better. I wish they showed a bit more of a growth.

Elena,
please repeat this stats analysis from time to time.  It is much more accurate that all other predictions, guesses, bias, foretelling  and hidden advertising.

« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2008, 20:44 »
0
My insider`s Tip is Zoonar. The first Stock with all three price sektors (microstock, midstock, macrostock) and a really new concept. They offer new price-combinations for art-Buyers who want do a mix of macro- and microstock photos and compare booths sektors in quality to make a choice. I also like the maximum percantage of 80% for my pics  ;D

But.. they just started in the beginning of 2007 and get photos mostly from german-photographers. the english site is up since two months and there are not many traffic yet. I have some nice sellings there, but nothing in microstock, it was midstock for 10-40 Euros. Only sellings in german countries and not many.

But it is a really new concept (and we have not many ideas, the most new agencys only try to get a piece from the microstock cake) and they have a amazing growth of photos this makes me staying there...

Do they sell anything?

« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2008, 04:33 »
0
My insider`s Tip is Zoonar. The first Stock with all three price sektors (microstock, midstock, macrostock) and a really new concept. They offer new price-combinations for art-Buyers who want do a mix of macro- and microstock photos and compare booths sektors in quality to make a choice. I also like the maximum percantage of 80% for my pics  ;D

But.. they just started in the beginning of 2007 and get photos mostly from german-photographers. the english site is up since two months and there are not many traffic yet. I have some nice sellings there, but nothing in microstock, it was midstock for 10-40 Euros. Only sellings in german countries and not many.

But it is a really new concept (and we have not many ideas, the most new agencys only try to get a piece from the microstock cake) and they have a amazing growth of photos this makes me staying there...

Do they sell anything?


Yes, but not many. I think for microstockphotographers it could be a "hard thing" there. You have to wait a long time in good midstock-agencys but in the end you get the same money with one sellings a month  that you get in microstock with hundrets sellings. For me it is a normal thing, cause i have photos at alamy for three years now.

But zoonar is very young, so you have to wait much longer and don`t get the same money like in vip-agencys. I submit photos there, cause i want to push the best new agencys. I think everyone of us has some good earners and some low earners in the portfolio. The good earnes are for the money, the low earners are a strategic decision. You choose the stocks you like most. I take zoonar cause they have very good conditions for photographers like:

- fee maximum of 80%
- free licence decision (RF or RM)
- free price settings
- direct negotiations between costumer-photographer

I like this and i think other agencys have to follow when zoonar comes up as fast as in the last year...

And sorry for the bad english...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 04:35 by Michael »

« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2008, 08:55 »
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Thanks for the info. I've registered and uploaded a couple of photos just to get the feel of it.

« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2008, 10:51 »
0
HUMM I tried to sent to pics via the java upload manager but it does not work :( anyone lucky with that ?
L

« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2008, 11:03 »
0
HUMM I tried to sent to pics via the java upload manager but it does not work :( anyone lucky with that ?
L

You must wait until the photo editors have accept your photos. Then you can see them in your user-profile (photo manager or likewise). If they don`t accept photos you get a mail at the next day...

Zoonar don`t offers ftp, that`s a bad point, but they said in a german forum they will think about it...

« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2008, 12:10 »
0
thanks Michael how many pics do I have to send to get approved you know?
L

« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2008, 12:29 »
0
I have no idea what company will perform the best in 2008 but hopefully it's the one that pays its contributors the most commission.

I also think going exclusive at this time is way too early because this market is still developing.  I believe that most of the buyers, from large companies included, don't need exclusive images.  The company I work for uses exclusive images of its own products by its contracted photographers and downloads stock images from the companies that it feels gives them the best rates!

« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2008, 12:35 »
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Good news from SV, they opened their agency for buyers worldwide.

« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2008, 16:40 »
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thanks Michael how many pics do I have to send to get approved you know?
L

No i don`t know, but i think there are no approvement. You just can submit photos and they check the quality of the single pictures. But this answer is not fur sure. I opened my account in the middle of 2007. At that time there was no approvement. They write me an e-mail and asked me if i will submit photos. I read the Faq and transfer the first photos after reading their concept.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 16:43 by Michael »

« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2008, 17:28 »
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My mistake it must be the size of my pics I was uploading 5 MP and it is 6MP minimum that's why it probably did not work
L

« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2008, 01:56 »
0
My mistake it must be the size of my pics I was uploading 5 MP and it is 6MP minimum that's why it probably did not work
L

I've run into the 6MP barrier as well a couple of times. No cropping allowed. I need a new camera   ::)

Haven't tried the batch uploader yet, but I'll give it a go tonight.

« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2008, 04:27 »
0
My mistake it must be the size of my pics I was uploading 5 MP and it is 6MP minimum that's why it probably did not work
L

I've run into the 6MP barrier as well a couple of times. No cropping allowed. I need a new camera   ::)


Why not cropping? Nobody will see it if you do it right. I do interpolation with Photoshop +30-40% and there are never artefacts or other visible photo-errors...

« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2008, 05:22 »
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Yes I will try the interpolation 5 MP to 6MP and see how it goes, hopefully artifacts like you said will be minimum...
Cheers
L

« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2008, 06:49 »
0
My mistake it must be the size of my pics I was uploading 5 MP and it is 6MP minimum that's why it probably did not work
L

I've run into the 6MP barrier as well a couple of times. No cropping allowed. I need a new camera   ::)


Why not cropping? Nobody will see it if you do it right. I do interpolation with Photoshop +30-40% and there are never artefacts or other visible photo-errors...

I agree, but I have too many versions of each photo already. It's easier to upload what is already large enough.

« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2008, 17:40 »
0
My mistake it must be the size of my pics I was uploading 5 MP and it is 6MP minimum that's why it probably did not work
L

I've run into the 6MP barrier as well a couple of times. No cropping allowed. I need a new camera   ::)


Ok, but you can do such things with a batch automatically....

Why not cropping? Nobody will see it if you do it right. I do interpolation with Photoshop +30-40% and there are never artefacts or other visible photo-errors...

I agree, but I have too many versions of each photo already. It's easier to upload what is already large enough.

Why not using a batch? Thats very easy
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 10:50 by Michael »

helix7

« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2008, 01:30 »
0

I don't get BigStock. They should be doing so much better. They are marketing, running nice ads in design magazines alongside StockXpert and istock, and yet sales there are still pretty dismal.



« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2008, 03:01 »
0
Sales with bigstock seem to vary amongst us a lot.  They are much better than 123rf for me but some people don't do well there.  Last month was a big BME and I made more there than with DT but BigStock accept 97% of my uploads while DT is fussy.

DanP68

« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2008, 03:22 »
0
BigStock produces for me, slow and steady.  Here are 2 stats to scratch your head over Sharpshot. BigStock has outsold DT for me over 7 months, and my DT acceptance rate over the last 3 months is higher than it is at BigStock.   ???

« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2008, 03:40 »
0
My mistake it must be the size of my pics I was uploading 5 MP and it is 6MP minimum that's why it probably did not work
L

I've run into the 6MP barrier as well a couple of times. No cropping allowed. I need a new camera   ::)


Ok, but you can do such things with a batch automatically....

Why not cropping? Nobody will see it if you do it right. I do interpolation with Photoshop +30-40% and there are never artefacts or other visible photo-errors...

I agree, but I have too many versions of each photo already. It's easier to upload what is already large enough.

Why not using a batch? Thats very easy

Updated my routines and uploading batch. Works great. A bit slow though.

« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2008, 13:09 »
0

Don't count Geckostock out.  While they were slow at the beginning, sales are now starting to move.  I just sold 5 there myself.
Marburg

Snapvillage has an obvious potential. I just had my first 10 dollar sale there, and they're still in beta.

Featurpics, but only if photographers helps by promoting their portfolio there. For me, that's an obvious thing to do since they generate the best profit per sale.

Bigstock has been developing nicely, and with their new price structure, they have the potential to become a proper earner.

And as for Lucky Oliver: to me, the only thing they have proved so far, is that they are good at designing websites. Unfortunately, their abilities to sell my images are close to zero. It's like driving a Ferrari with no engine: completely useless.

gbcimages

« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2008, 14:27 »
0
BTP FOR ME,I'VE HAD MORE SALES THERE THEN ALL THE OTHERS PUT TOGETHER

« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2008, 15:51 »
0
What's BTP?

Regards,
Adelaide

gbcimages

« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2008, 15:57 »
0
 I mean BigStock


 

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