The average microstock sale is much higher than $0.20.  I have had more $28 extended license sales than I have had alamy sales this month.  Alamy commissions aren't always higher than microstock.  My one sale so far this month is for around $20 commission.

I do like alamy but it averages out at around $1 per image per year and some people can do better than that per month with all the microstock sites.  I'm using alamy because I don't want to rely too heavily on my microstock earnings, they accept photos that the microstock sites are no longer interested in and I like being able to photograph and sell whatever I want.  They have a great commission and seem to be a site that has a lot of respect for their contributors.

...seem to be a site that has a lot of respect for their contributors.

I'm just starting to upload my port now on Alamy but I already have the same impression, that they respect contributors.

What may seem like a weird rule at first - accepting or rejecting a whole batch based on a sample - is actually great at forcing us to choose only our best pictures.

And I especially like the fact that they judge photos on technical quality only, not on presumed "commercial value" (the silliest of all possible reasons).

Seems like a good way of creating a great collection.

Acceptance ratios are not the point, it's about fair dealing and communication. SS is also pretty respectful, despite the higher rejection rate.

Quote from: Mantis on February 10, 2012, 20:58

..That "respect" is a behavioral response due to the way they inspect.  Sorry, but this is my honest opinion.  Your respect comments would surely change if they adopted IS or SS standards.

The inspections are only a very small part of it.  They pay 60% commission for most sales.  They often listen to discussions in their forum and make changes based on contributors comments.  The latest example is the reduction in payout level.  If they make changes, they have good communications, they don't try to disguise bad news or patronise people.  They let their contributors sell wherever they like, complete non-exclusivity, as long as they don't mix RF and RM licenses.  Do other sites have a corporate social responsibility page and give over 89% of their profits to medical research? http://www.alamy.com/corporate-social-responsibility.asp

There's lots more but that will do for now.

Understood.  I guess what I am trying to suggest is the the single most emotional factor in stock is the acceptance or rejection of one's images, followed by sales.  Your point of clear, honest communication is good, though. And it does indeed mean something to me, just not as much as getting marketable images online and selling.

Thanks for all the great answers.    As a follow up, do i need to create separate accounts at alamy for my work and my father in laws?   And how hard is the initial submission to alamy?  What kind of work of MINE should i send in to get accepted quickly.   Again, thanks for all the fish..er, help and this is a great forum filled with great folks.  ROGER

I am a bit surprised actually, some of the comments regarding acceptance and rejections. The main reason why the stock market is bursting with millions and millions of totally irrelevant material, badly executed material, etc, etc,  is that the majority of agencies have NOT, adopted the SS, standards of reviewing.
Five years back, good relevant material would always float to the top, right?  today its got to the point where good, relevant material, can just fade away into oblivion and never ever sell at all. Is that a good thing?  no, its terrible and totally derrogative to commercial photography on the whole.

Just flick through most agencies and you see pictures that wouldnt even get inside the first door at a trad agency, yet at Alamy, it does, I find that extraordinary and perhaps one of the reasons why Alamy is not selling very well at all.

The biggest enemy to serious stock-photography, any photography for that matter is this horrid attitude that everything should get accepted. Theres a place for second rate material: the dustbin.

If all agencies had adopted a far more tougher attitude towards acceptance, we would be in a totally differant position today. Easier for buyers to find good material, more sales, much less spamming and we would not have to compete aginst millions of weekend snappers, wannabees and God knows, that just dump their lousy material on the doorsteps of an agency, happy to get a payout of a few bucks.

The search should bring the best images to the top.  I prefer that to reviewers making the decision.  Don't know how many times one of my best selling images has been rejected on another site by a reviewer.  It's going to get more difficult to get new images near the top of the search, that's much harder with SS now as well.  They could give new images an advantage in the search but then most of us would probably complain about that, as we would lose earnings to new contributors that are uploading lots.

Yeah right, the search should bring forward the best images?  sure, ha, ha, ha, ,  like at IS?  where first pages are cluttered with the most basic, naive material and is there only because some little P/S, exclusive has taken them.

The reviewers should be educated to accept good commercial stuff and just dump any old rubbish. The entire mess of this industry, starts with the reviewers decisions, simple as that.

Quote from: sharpshot on July 14, 2012, 01:14

The search should bring the best images to the top.  I prefer that to reviewers making the decision.  Don't know how many times one of my best selling images has been rejected on another site by a reviewer.  It's going to get more difficult to get new images near the top of the search, that's much harder with SS now as well.  They could give new images an advantage in the search but then most of us would probably complain about that, as we would lose earnings to new contributors that are uploading lots.

Yeah right, the search should bring forward the best images?  sure, ha, ha, ha, ,  like at IS?  where first pages are cluttered with the most basic, naive material and is there only because some little P/S, exclusive has taken them.

The reviewers should be educated to accept good commercial stuff and just dump any old rubbish. The entire mess of this industry, starts with the reviewers decisions, simple as that.

Perhaps I should of said that if the search isn't screwed up, it should bring the best images to the top.

How are we ever going to get educated reviewers that are capable of accepting only good commercial stuff and dumping the rubbish?  They're very low paid.  What do you get if you pay peanuts Pay them more and we would end up footing the bill with yet more commission cuts.  And I don't think that the best reviewer in the world is going to know if some images are going to make money or not.  After doing this for 6 years, I'm still sometimes surprised how much what I consider now to be a rubbish photo makes.  One of mine that would probably be rejected by the micros now just sold on alamy for $200.

All photos technically in order will be accepted. All photos offered on Micros need to be sold as RF on Alamy. You cant sell photos as RF elsewhere as RM on Alamy. All photos without model releases, even for a bodypart, and property releases needs to be offered as RM.

And Alamy does indeed accept photos if there is grain which is part of the photo, etc. No anal micro rejections.

I am a bit surprised actually, some of the comments regarding acceptance and rejections. The main reason why the stock market is bursting with millions and millions of totally irrelevant material, badly executed material, etc, etc,  is that the majority of agencies have NOT, adopted the SS, standards of reviewing.
Five years back, good relevant material would always float to the top, right?  today its got to the point where good, relevant material, can just fade away into oblivion and never ever sell at all. Is that a good thing?  no, its terrible and totally derrogative to commercial photography on the whole.

Just flick through most agencies and you see pictures that wouldnt even get inside the first door at a trad agency, yet at Alamy, it does, I find that extraordinary and perhaps one of the reasons why Alamy is not selling very well at all.

The biggest enemy to serious stock-photography, any photography for that matter is this horrid attitude that everything should get accepted. Theres a place for second rate material: the dustbin.

If all agencies had adopted a far more tougher attitude towards acceptance, we would be in a totally differant position today. Easier for buyers to find good material, more sales, much less spamming and we would not have to compete aginst millions of weekend snappers, wannabees and God knows, that just dump their lousy material on the doorsteps of an agency, happy to get a payout of a few bucks.

WOW! That is one of the best, most sensible posts I've ever read here.

All photos technically in order will be accepted. All photos offered on Micros need to be sold as RF on Alamy. You cant sell photos as RF elsewhere as RM on Alamy. All photos without model releases, even for a bodypart, and property releases needs to be offered as RM.

And Alamy does indeed accept photos if there is grain which is part of the photo, etc. No anal micro rejections.

there's a big difference between film noise and digital noise !

digital noise is made by the CCD when pushed over its bounds ...  its designed to produce noiseless images in certain light conditions, anything else will come out too dark, noisy and grainy and the software will add noise to "patch" the no-light areas.

once you shoot in iso 3200 or 6400 your image is as bad as something resized 3-400% ... and what about the colors looking like sh-it, they cant look realistic as 1 pixel is good and the other 3 are made by interpolation !

so, there are very good reason some agencies are snotty against digital noise but are ok with grainy images scanned from film, film grain looks always good, the issue with film is it's no match with the sharpness of the modern DSLR unless you shoot on film medium format.

Quote from: Poncke on July 14, 2012, 05:54

All photos technically in order will be accepted. All photos offered on Micros need to be sold as RF on Alamy. You cant sell photos as RF elsewhere as RM on Alamy. All photos without model releases, even for a bodypart, and property releases needs to be offered as RM.

And Alamy does indeed accept photos if there is grain which is part of the photo, etc. No anal micro rejections.

there's a big difference between film noise and digital noise !

digital noise is made by the CCD when pushed over its bounds ...  its designed to produce noiseless images in certain light conditions, anything else will come out too dark, noisy and grainy and the software will add noise to "patch" the no-light areas.

once you shoot in iso 3200 or 6400 your image is as bad as something resized 3-400% ... and what about the colors looking like sh-it, they cant look realistic as 1 pixel is good and the other 3 are made by interpolation !

so, there are very good reason some agencies are snotty against digital noise but are ok with grainy images scanned from film, film grain looks always good, the issue with film is it's no match with the sharpness of the modern DSLR unless you shoot on film medium format.

Where did I claim there wasnt a difference !! Thanks for the lesson, but nothing I  didnt know already.

but that it takes at least 5-6000 images on sale to make a living or trying to.

I can't imagine how bad you really are if you need 5-6k to make a living. And as you said you live in a shithole in (south east) Asia, where you can get by just nicely with a few hundred bucks. I sold over 10% of my port at SS in sheer numbers today (meaning over 100 images if I had a port of 1000) and I don't consider myself to be a great ms tog.

Quote from: Poncke on July 16, 2012, 17:50

Quote from: antistock on July 16, 2012, 07:59

, as far as i'm concerned newbies can just pi-ss off.

....You have a lot of hate in you. Smoke a joint.....

Hate is good. It drives us to work harder.

Speak for yourself.
Or is that as in, "I hate that iStock pays 15%, so I'll work so much harder and they'll give me 16%"

Quote from: antistock on July 16, 2012, 07:59

but that it takes at least 5-6000 images on sale to make a living or trying to.

I can't imagine how bad you really are if you need 5-6k to make a living. And as you said you live in a shithole in (south east) Asia, where you can get by just nicely with a few hundred bucks. I sold over 10% of my port at SS in sheer numbers today (meaning over 100 images if I had a port of 1000) and I don't consider myself to be a great ms tog.

But you don't have 1000 images do you?  It gets harder as your portfolio grows.  The law of diminishing returns seems to hit everyone at some point.  Some people can make a lot with a smaller portfolio but they might experience bigger ups and downs and it might not be so easy to maintain earnings over a long period.  They also might find it harder as their portfolio gets copied by all the copycats.  My best selling photo has been copied so many times now, it makes a fraction of what it used to.

But if I can do it with 500, than there's no way I couldn't make a living with 1k,2k or even 6k

Dream on.

Quote from: wut on July 17, 2012, 06:59

But if I can do it with 500, than there's no way I couldn't make a living with 1k,2k or even 6k

Dream on.

Shes a Scottish lass, be careful or she bushwhack you right smack in the B....................S

Quote from: ShadySue on July 17, 2012, 07:24

Quote from: wut on July 17, 2012, 06:59

But if I can do it with 500, than there's no way I couldn't make a living with 1k,2k or even 6k

Dream on.

Shes a Scottish lass, be careful or she bushwhack you right smack in the B....................S

YBBI

Quote from: ShadySue on July 17, 2012, 08:59

Quote from: wut on July 17, 2012, 08:29

Quote from: ShadySue on July 17, 2012, 07:24

Quote from: wut on July 17, 2012, 06:59

But if I can do it with 500, than there's no way I couldn't make a living with 1k,2k or even 6k

Dream on.

What's up with you lately? :s

No change. Cynical realist.

Well the sudden change of attitude towards me, puzzles me. I thought you had just a bad day yesterday...And you're certainly not realistic, since you don't know my real numbers, but I guess you have your own reasons to think of me as a liar, someone as pathetic to lie about his earnings

OK. You and I have about the same dl/ul rate at iStock (You can't see my actual figures, but it's showing as 11,977), and you're thinking of going exclusive. But I have a lot more files, so I'm presumably getting more actual dls than you. You currently have sales elsewhere, but exclusive %ages at iStock are higher.
I can assure you I don't anything like make a living from my iStock earnings though my stock outgoings are almost nil, my mortage is paid and I have no family to support at the moment.
So unless you're making a fortune at Alamy, where I admit I'm a dismal failure, averaging almost the exact popular projection of 1dl/month per 1000 images, that's where I'm getting my figures from.
If your figures are that much better, from your sales at other sites, don't even consider exclusivity for a moment longer. If you're doing that much better at Alamy, put all your effort there.

BTW, if you don't think you'll hit the wall, like almost everyone else has, consider aeonf. For ages they were extremly bullish, doing better and better month on month, but even they have been slipping for the last couple of months. They're shooting models/studio stuff.

Hate is good. It drives us to work harder.

WOW, Yuri must be the god of hate then...

Quote from: wut on July 17, 2012, 09:16

Quote from: ShadySue on July 17, 2012, 08:59

Quote from: wut on July 17, 2012, 08:29

Quote from: ShadySue on July 17, 2012, 07:24

Quote from: wut on July 17, 2012, 06:59

But if I can do it with 500, than there's no way I couldn't make a living with 1k,2k or even 6k

Dream on.

What's up with you lately? :s

No change. Cynical realist.

Well the sudden change of attitude towards me, puzzles me. I thought you had just a bad day yesterday...And you're certainly not realistic, since you don't know my real numbers, but I guess you have your own reasons to think of me as a liar, someone as pathetic to lie about his earnings

OK. You and I have about the same dl/ul rate at iStock (You can't see my actual figures, but it's showing as 11,977), and you're thinking of going exclusive. But I have a lot more files, so I'm presumably getting more actual dls than you. You currently have sales elsewhere, but exclusive %ages at iStock are higher.
I can assure you I don't anything like make a living from my iStock earnings though my stock outgoings are almost nil, my mortage is paid and I have no family to support at the moment.
So unless you're making a fortune at Alamy, where I admit I'm a dismal failure, averaging almost the exact popular projection of 1dl/month per 1000 images, that's where I'm getting my figures from.
If your figures are that much better, from your sales at other sites, don't even consider exclusivity for a moment longer. If you're doing that much better at Alamy, put all your effort there.

BTW, if you don't think you'll hit the wall, like almost everyone else has, consider aeonf. For ages they were extremly bullish, doing better and better month on month, but even they have been slipping for the last couple of months. They're shooting models/studio stuff.

If you're getting over 400 or even 500, then yes, you are (I can send you a printscreen so I won't get called names etc;)

What you didn't consider is that costs of living over here are half of what are in your area. That being said I also own a flat, have no mortgages etc. I'm not making much at Alamy, sales are disappointing, only 2 so far this month for instance. But then again, I already reached a BME at FT yesterday, 3rd BME at IS a week ago and something really terrible would have to happen to my sales to not make it to a BME, it's projected to be a big one. SS is doing great as well on my way to my 2nd BME, so IS is closing the gap, but OTOH FT is doing it as well, so I'll just have to see about exclusivity. It was easier before when I had only 2 sites selling really well.

I was always saying I will, but if that happens when I'll be earning 3-30k like some ppl over here that are complaining about their sales plateauing, I'll be one happy fool. I won't complain at all! I'll just miss the days of rising sales I guess, but that kind of money would really allow me to indulge myself (travel more and eat even better) . And most seem to hit the wall when their port reaches 3k+ so judging by that I have a long, long way to go (you know that I don't shoot a lot and add very little new material every month). BTW, many ppl here seem to be happy for aeonf's loss. I guess they'll be even happier when it happens to me. But until then, I'll be the last one to laugh, muahahaahaha (joke, I know you don't care about that anyway;)

^^Mine's bigger than yours.  I think so anyway,  stomach in the way.

ROFL!  Great post

Here�s some number to consider. Through 2009 Alamy was supplying quarterly sales figures and rather detailed breakdowns of those figures to the public. Based on those numbers Alamy had gross revenue of $22,864,000 in 2009 down from over $31 million in 2008. In 2008 they paid out $20.8 million to contributors and in 2009 they paid out $12.5 million.

In Q4 2008 the average license fee for an RM image was $116. If the image was editorial the average price was $100 and the average for commercial use was $298. Of course the vast majority of sales were for editorial use.

At the end of 2008 they had about 15 million images on the site. Now they have almost 32 million.  In all of 2009 they licensed rights to use less than 200,000 images or a little over 1% of the images in their collection. Considering that a few images were licensed more than once, the number of unique images licensed was probably less than 1%. The number of images licensed in 2008 was about the same, but the average price per license was higher.

While the collection has more than doubled in size, based on conversations with photographers and agencies that have images on Alamy, I don�t think the number of total images licensed per year has risen much above 200,000, if at all. That means that today on average a photographer would need about 160 images in the collection in order to make 1 sale in the year. Of course some photographers do better than the average and others do worse.

Part of the original question was �How will historical images sell?� There is not anywhere near as much demand for historical images as images of contemporary people and lifestyle, or current views of travel locations. Thus, sales of historical images would probably be much lower than the average. Alamy will probably accept images that you can�t get accepted by microstock sites, but is it worth your trouble of preparing the images for the market.

very interesting numbers Jim, thanks for sharing!

how about RF?

No! this is in fact what I have suspected all along!  time to bail out of Alamy. They dont sell, simple as that.

No! this is in fact what I have suspected all along!  time to bail out of Alamy. They dont sell, simple as that.

Wow, you've really pulled all your blue&red flames (and I guess many yellow as well). Respect! For actually doing it and not just talking about it, besides those files really mattered to IS, highly saleable niche images.

but is it worth your trouble of preparing the images for the market.

NO, not worth it in my experience.

Yes, I pulled about 15 blue flames, some of them with over 3K dls and some 30 red flame files. I wont sanction an agency that purposely destroy.

Didn't you try to re-activate them again though - I remember you posting that it would be a hassle having to have them go back for inspection again.

ETA: edit - my mistake ... I remember now. That was at iStockphoto not Alamy.

What made you want to reactivate the images with flames at iStockphoto after you had pulled them ?

Quote from: bhr on July 19, 2012, 02:31

What made you want to reactivate the images with flames at iStockphoto after you had pulled them ?

There were some engineering files I wanted to reactivate ( without people), thought they might as well stay there but as soon as its people, MRs, etc, I see no point in having them hanging around page 25 in searches, just a waste of time. Buyers very seldom go beyond page 5 in a search.

1. Evidence from Alamy shows that certain buyers will look through all images in their search: even over 3000.
2. You'd think smart buyers might use smarter keywords to home in on what they want, though adding filters to a keyword search seems to send iStock into fits, especially if trying to exclude things (e.g. isolations). Pollyannas might imagine that will be fixed one day. 

I'm not put off uploading to alamy.  The most interesting numbers for me are in the monthly earnings threads.  There's still people doing well there.  And there's always the chance of a really big sale, the odds are slim but you never know.  If the bad economic situation around the world improves over the next few years, things could pick up again for alamy

I'm doing OK there, I'm not even thinking about it until I have at least 2,000 photos that aren't on the microstock sites.  Then I might have more of an idea of the potential earnings.

You can opt out of the novelty use scheme (only during April).
If you decide to become iStock exclusive, word from CR, posted on iStock forums, was that you can't be in the NU scheme. (But that was just one CR's opinion.)

Novel Use
Novel use has been devised as platform to launch a number of initiatives, giving us greater flexibility when selling your images. If you sign up to the Novel Use scheme you are giving Alamy permission to sell your images at any price and by any method we feel is appropriate. This opens up your images to new opportunities thus giving you additional potential revenue streams for your images.
Benefits to you:
    An optional scheme.
    Opportunity to sell your images in new, emerging markets.
    Continue to see when sales are made, and the territory or territories in which your images are being used.
    The Novel Use scheme will not cannibalise our traditional sales.

How it works:
    Once you have opted in, your images will be available within the scheme until 31st March 2013.
    Your images remain part of the large Alamy collection and continue to be sold under existing licence types.
    In April of every year you have the option to opt out of Novel Use.
    If you do not want to opt-out, you don�t need to do anything.

The scheme is very much in its infancy and exciting ways to sell your imagery in this way are being developed.

http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/additional-revenue-opportunities.asp

You can opt out of the novelty use scheme (only during April).

I know! That's why I'm gonna close my acc in case I decide to go exclusive in that case they remove it in 45 days if I remember correctly

Yeah I know what you mean mate, hey, good luck with exclusivity btw.
My IS earnings are 1/3 (if that) of SS so in my case it's a big no go.

Try and delete your account at DT

Posted By Berc:
I've been thinking about it lately and I wonder just how much of a bump in earnings can I expect? What's the average increase od DLs due to increased exposure? What happens to RPD? As I can see E+ is doing well lately, contributing a lot to higher RPD. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's exclusive for half a year or so (so the info is up to date and at the same time statistically meaningful)

Joined May 2008, I'm eligible for my 1st payout Jul 28/10, 2:30

Berc is going exclusive too. 710 photos. http://www.istockphoto.com/user_view.php?id=3406081  Wut can ask him about exclusive at IS.

You get 50 cent download at IS 33 cent download at SS many more volume and $1 for Alamy but people complain that Alamy doesn't pay enough? 90 days DT right. Alamy keeps photos active in case there's a pending sale. Some places like FT ignore you and have hundreds of partners who ignore us. Start now and hope for 2013.

Quote from: Poncke on July 19, 2012, 11:03

Try and delete your account at DT

Quote

Posted By Berc:
I've been thinking about it lately and I wonder just how much of a bump in earnings can I expect? What's the average increase od DLs due to increased exposure? What happens to RPD? As I can see E+ is doing well lately, contributing a lot to higher RPD. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's exclusive for half a year or so (so the info is up to date and at the same time statistically meaningful)

Joined May 2008, I'm eligible for my 1st payout Jul 28/10, 2:30

Berc is going exclusive too. 710 photos. http://www.istockphoto.com/user_view.php?id=3406081  Wut can ask him about exclusive at IS.

You get 50 cent download at IS 33 cent download at SS many more volume and $1 for Alamy but people complain that Alamy doesn't pay enough? 90 days DT right. Alamy keeps photos active in case there's a pending sale. Some places like FT ignore you and have hundreds of partners who ignore us. Start now and hope for 2013.

What's the point in asking someone with no experience about his experience after going exclusive?

I don't get the second paragraph, well the first half of it.

Quote from: Milinz on July 19, 2012, 11:23

Quote from: Poncke on July 19, 2012, 11:03

Try and delete your account at DT

Quote

Posted By Berc:
I've been thinking about it lately and I wonder just how much of a bump in earnings can I expect? What's the average increase od DLs due to increased exposure? What happens to RPD? As I can see E+ is doing well lately, contributing a lot to higher RPD. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's exclusive for half a year or so (so the info is up to date and at the same time statistically meaningful)

Joined May 2008, I'm eligible for my 1st payout Jul 28/10, 2:30

Berc is going exclusive too. 710 photos. http://www.istockphoto.com/user_view.php?id=3406081  Wut can ask him about exclusive at IS.

You get 50 cent download at IS 33 cent download at SS many more volume and $1 for Alamy but people complain that Alamy doesn't pay enough? 90 days DT right. Alamy keeps photos active in case there's a pending sale. Some places like FT ignore you and have hundreds of partners who ignore us. Start now and hope for 2013.

What's the point in asking someone with no experience about his experience after going exclusive?

I don't get the second paragraph, well the first half of it.

You can ask yourself how hard is it to close all the other accounts and go exclusive. DT isn't easy, Alamy takes 90 days, some partners are unresponsive. But percentage is the part that needs to be make up.

If you read the alamy blog, novelty use is being phased out.

Alamy sell just fine. Well worth the time. Keywording is crucial though - spamming will bite you in the backside.

Quote from: CarlssonInc. Stock Imagery Production on July 20, 2012, 11:43

Alamy sell just fine. Well worth the time. Keywording is crucial though - spamming will bite you in the backside.

Yes, they sell fine! but in very, very few areas and my areas, industry, engineering, technology, certainly isnt one of them. They sell lots of landscapes, travel and scenics. Because Im short of time Im seriously considering stop uploading.

Shame to hear that Alamy doesn't work for you. As you say they sell tons of secondary editorial, although my sales have more or less all been creative/commercial types.