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Author Topic: Basic beginers camera?  (Read 12682 times)

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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2009, 05:05 »
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imo the brand is totally irrelevant.  there isnt a dslr on the market that will not do what you want it do (I doubt if there has been one made that you couldnt successfully use for stock - does any have bad iso100-200)

many of my best selling photos were shot with a 6mp pentax ds worth au$200-$300 on ebay, a number of them were shot with 1 of 2 lenses I bought from a pawn shop for $35 each (of course you have to know what you are buying and then the limitations of the lens (or be lucky :)). Every micro library will still quite happily take images from this camera (or any other 6-8mp camera).

every brand has its advantages and disadvantages but if your looking for your first dslr brands really are irrelevant. You'll enjoy the advantages and learn to shoot and work around the disadvantages just like the millions of other people using the brand you chose. Nikon / Canon / Sony / Oly / Panasonic / Pentax I dont think any of them are going anywhere in a hurry and when you are starting there is always an upgrade path and your investment at least for a while isnt going to be real big so changing brands later isnt really a major problem. 

Every brand has some real gem lens that can be had for a 'relative' bargain :) (and every brand has some badly overpriced dogs). Its usually pretty easy to find out what they are (pretty much all the 50mm primes, tamron 28-75 etc)

personally I tell everyone to go to a shop that has a good stock, I usually ignore the saleperson because when a pentax shooter and now sony i get sick of the you can only take good photos with Canon or Nikon (whichever the salesperson shoots or gets higher commision) or the bimbo's (I dont know the male version of bimbo?) who know nothing. Anyway go have a play, which one feels good, which one do you like, thats the one you will want to use and enjoy using and so take the best photos with :) or if on a budget go have a play work out which one, go onto dpreview found out the predecessors ie canon 500->400->300 (not sure of actually numbers I dont get into gear too much) then go on ebay and see what you can pick up an earlier model for (you can always list it again 6 months later after you've had a good play or after you've worked out what you are really looking for :))

cut your camera budget and put the moeny into your lenses (always more important than the camera), 1 good lens is better than 5 poor ones.

well thats my 10c, no matter who you ask you will get a different answer :) and no matter what you buy someone will tell you that you made the wrong choice and that the other people giving you advice is full of garbage :):)


« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2009, 05:31 »
0
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?

I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.


Probably ok for a starter, yeah?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 07:59 by Dennis Holmes »

« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2009, 06:52 »
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wow its little :)  (which can be cool when you've carried 19kg backpack of gear around all day).
I saw a little while back that michael reichman of luminouslandscape.com has one I think (personally a pretty good recommendation, but I sure someone will come along and say otherwise :)).
I think (without knowing much about it) it is designed partly as a bridge cam (going from point and shoot to dslr), therefore I'd expect it to be easy to use, personally the veiwfinder (and reliance on liveview) would rule it out for me, but if you arent used to using a viewfinder / dslr then it wouldn't be a big deal.
I wouldnt expect it to be great for high iso (but dont really know) but then stock is pretty much all low iso so irrelevant for stock (unless you decide to become a concert photographer etc instead :)).
My only concern would be lens and accessory availability, check what your after currently exists (i had a quick look, didnt see a macro lens?)
 
anyway looks like good fun :)

« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2009, 08:13 »
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Here is a link. Looks like you can get attachment lenses
-http://www.cnet.com.au/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh1-339295275.htm


« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2009, 08:16 »
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wow its little :)  (which can be cool when you've carried 19kg backpack of gear around all day).
I saw a little while back that michael reichman of luminouslandscape.com has one I think (personally a pretty good recommendation, but I sure someone will come along and say otherwise :)).
I think (without knowing much about it) it is designed partly as a bridge cam (going from point and shoot to dslr), therefore I'd expect it to be easy to use, personally the veiwfinder (and reliance on liveview) would rule it out for me, but if you arent used to using a viewfinder / dslr then it wouldn't be a big deal.
I wouldnt expect it to be great for high iso (but dont really know) but then stock is pretty much all low iso so irrelevant for stock (unless you decide to become a concert photographer etc instead :)).
My only concern would be lens and accessory availability, check what your after currently exists (i had a quick look, didnt see a macro lens?)
 
anyway looks like good fun :)

I dunno - viewfinder / dslr

« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2009, 08:46 »
0
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?
I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.
Probably ok for a starter, yeah?

I've seen prices around $1600 which is far above a entry-level camera. And the accessories might be a bit limited yet but certainly will become bigger if the FourThirds standards gains some more market share. Though you probably will be limited to the format which is even smaller than the usual APS-C sized sensors. Smaller sensor means denser pixels and is likely to produce more noise in less-than-perfect conditions.

If you settle for this camera, I would avoid to make any further investments even if you feel limited later on. It's pretty common that you start with a camera and kit lense and will find reasons to buy more glass, flash, remote trigger whatever after 6 - 12 months. You can certainly do so with the Lumix but you will always be bound to FourThirds while Canon, Nikon, Sony at least offer that you can invest in full frame lenses from the beginning even when you only have an APS-C sensor in your camera. That's why I would recommend to stick with one of those three brands.

Also - if you are willing to spend $1600, you will be better off by buying a cheaper entry-level camera and one or two excellent lenses.The lenses are more important to the image quality than the camera. And they will last much longer than the body.

« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2009, 09:13 »
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Here are a few products we are talking about.


The G10

A great little camera and one that I would really like to get, and is great for travelling since it is so small BUT it would be frustrating to try and do stock with it.  It still has a small sensor and you would for sure have to shoot everything ISO 100 and probably downsize to get things accepted.  It is a great camera but it is STILL a point and shoot.  That said, if having a bigger camera is going to make you not bring your camera, then this is a very good compromise.


next up is the Canon 1000D

A great starter DSLR, does everything the others do and is small.



Canon 450D

A small step up in resolution but a very similar camera to the 1000D



Canon 50D

Great camera, has very accessible controls, similar functions to the 5D series camera, but a smaller sensor.


Canon 5D

The big selling point of the 5D is the sensor size.  it is full frame 35mm which means very little noise.  The new 5D mark II also takes video and has less noise and more resolution than the regular 5D
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 09:15 by leaf »

« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2009, 09:17 »
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and here is the 50 f/1.8 lens that was mentioned.  Cheap, sharp and a great lens to learn with.  You would be much better off with this lens than the kit lens some cameras come with.


« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2009, 09:36 »
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and here is the 50 f/1.8 lens that was mentioned.  Cheap, sharp and a great lens to learn with.  You would be much better off with this lens than the kit lens some cameras come with.




Like this? http://www.citiwideonline.com/au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=2646&category_id=107&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1

« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2009, 09:45 »
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I really need it to be easy to use.

« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2009, 10:00 »
0
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?
I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.
Probably ok for a starter, yeah?

I've seen prices around $1600 which is far above a entry-level camera. And the accessories might be a bit limited yet but certainly will become bigger if the FourThirds standards gains some more market share. Though you probably will be limited to the format which is even smaller than the usual APS-C sized sensors. Smaller sensor means denser pixels and is likely to produce more noise in less-than-perfect conditions.

If you settle for this camera, I would avoid to make any further investments even if you feel limited later on. It's pretty common that you start with a camera and kit lense and will find reasons to buy more glass, flash, remote trigger whatever after 6 - 12 months. You can certainly do so with the Lumix but you will always be bound to FourThirds while Canon, Nikon, Sony at least offer that you can invest in full frame lenses from the beginning even when you only have an APS-C sensor in your camera. That's why I would recommend to stick with one of those three brands.

Also - if you are willing to spend $1600, you will be better off by buying a cheaper entry-level camera and one or two excellent lenses.The lenses are more important to the image quality than the camera. And they will last much longer than the body.
The price on that site was Australian dollars.

« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2009, 10:10 »
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leaf:

Why didn't you include the Canon T1i/500D?

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/613611-REG/Canon_3818B001_EOS_Rebel_T1i_Digital.html" target="_blank">
Canon EOS Rebel T1i
" border="0[/url]

« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2009, 10:17 »
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the best camera for you is the one your hands feel good carrying. it does not have to be the ones everyone is carrying. as the old saying goes about art or whatever skill, "it's not the machine, it's the man behind it".

there are advantages that work for you, such as full frame, higher ISO tolerance,resale value,etc... but these are pretty irrelevant to the artists. most artists or skill craftsman don't buy and sell their equipment. most keep their equipment until it runs out of life. at least i do, and many who taught me do.

leaf and those who say get the 50mm 1.8 lens is undoubtedly the best advice here.
it really does not matter which camera you get, you can get one of the generic makes sigma,etc.. and get that 50 mm 1.8 . (i think). 
as so, the macro lense is also available via sigma, tamron, tokina,etc.

a full frame camera would mean more money. always you need a CMOS sensor that has a resolution 14MP or higher. this means more money.
a non full frame camera would the same resolution 14MP , for example, means more pixel in the smaller frame. more packed pixels in a smaller frame means better resolution. at least that's my understanding.
which is why, if you're getting a full frame sensor, you better settle for the top of the line like Canon has, or else you will be disappointed.

then you have to think about which in camera noise reduction you prefer. some , like Canon does a lot more noise reduction on their JPG format, while others do less in camera processing.

then, like someone else mentioned, there is the in camera stabilization, vs, in the lense. which again means more expensive for the lenses.

really, if you look at where some of the stock sellers with their history goes,
one can truly get away shooting stock with even a 7MP camera with one lense
50mm 1.8.  if you get the exposure correct and use the sweet spot of the lense.
zoom lenses are inferior at best , in comparision to prime lenses. which is why most would recommend getting the best prime lense for your work.
50mm on a full frame would be like 50mm on a 35mm, which is quite useless.
but on a smaller frame camera would be like the ideal portrait lenses giving you 1.5x = 75mm.

so if you add that to say a 200mm prime lense with macro feature. you have enough to last you for stock photography until you grow a beard. lol.

so if you have a limited budget. i would say, get the cheapest body with the highest resolution , and spend more on getting the best lense you can find for that camera.

nikon, pentax, canon, olympus, all make good cameras. to say one is better is like saying there is only one car we should all drive.and you know that is all advertising talk, or status bs.

the camera you should get is the one you can carry with a 200 mm lense you can hand hold steadily at ISO 100-400, and the resolution of 7MP and higher.
and it has to have RAW , so you can shoot it at this format. JPG fine is awesome
if your shots are perfect and does not need post processing . but RAW will save you almost everytime in case you're off a bit

i said a camera you can safely handhold at 200mm, because some of the 200mm
zoom are heavily SOBs. i would n't want to carry it with me even if you paid me .
which goes back to prime lenses.

if you look at the absurdity of a zoom lense, you will understand why only an amateur will want it.  imagine carrying at 28mm lense which is 5 inches long.
and a 75mm that is like a salami??? lol.

if you ever used a zoom lense, you will find you only use a certain focal length and at a certain aperture. why? because that's the only way to get good clean sharp images .  so really, why would you need the rest of it?
if you want a lense for your vacation, yes. the zoom's best.

if you want a lense to make money for stock, go for prime lenses.
cheaper , faster, and less CA and distortion, and less headaches.

hope this helps. now, go to a camera store that has all the brands and handle as many cameras of your choice and buy the one you enjoy carrying.

« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2009, 10:25 »
0
http://www.portagadgets.com/australia/product.php?productid=35327


My brain hurts.



I have fibromyalgia. main reason why I need it easy to use.

« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2009, 11:07 »
0
http://www.portagadgets.com/australia/product.php?productid=35327
My brain hurts.
I have fibromyalgia. main reason why I need it easy to use.


it seems to have all that 's needed. don't see why not. so all you need is the 50mm 1.8 and if you need a second prime lense, 200mm with macro .
good luck

« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2009, 11:09 »
0
leaf:

Why didn't you include the Canon T1i/500D?

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/613611-REG/Canon_3818B001_EOS_Rebel_T1i_Digital.html" target="_blank">
Canon EOS Rebel T1i
" border="0[/url]


thanks, I thought there was a 500D out.  I couldn't find it on BHPHOTO when i was looking before.

« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2009, 12:12 »
0
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?

I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.


Probably ok for a starter, yeah?



I could be wrong but I don't think the DMC-GH1 is available yet - most sites are saying it will be available in July and cost about US$1499. Another micro 4/3 camera is going to be announced on Monday by Olympus - so far they're only showing teasers, but it will essentially be a compact camera with a 4/3 size sensor:



I think essentially it will become a modern version of a rangefinder... but its also not yet available.

The new camera, the DMC-GH1 and the G1 which is available now operate a bit like bridge cameras but have the image quality of a digital SLR because they have a much larger sensor than any compact camera.

Out of currently available cameras, I think the best travel kit is the E620 with 14-42 and 40-150mm lenses.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/607510-REG/Olympus_262162_E_620_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

If you want HD video, I'd wait for the DMC-GH1 - it will actually have a lens that is designed for video.


« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2009, 12:27 »
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What are your thoughts on Nikon D40 compared to other entry-level cameras?

« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2009, 17:13 »
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I started my younger days with analog Nikon. Getting my feet into digital world, I went through a pile of p&s cameras, including Fuji, Kodak, Olympus, Nikon and Canon. I was really happy with Canon G1 at the time. Which lead me to G2, G5, a 300D, 400D, 30D, 40D, now 5D and I'm getting a Canon G10 soon.

I've used a friend's G9 for the past year and have no problem getting some shots accepted in both SS and IS. My workflow with G9 is to shot RAW, iso100, downsample to about 6 MP.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2009, 20:36 »
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Do most of you use Mac computers. I know it's a little of subject but somethings just don't go together. And I'm my mind it relates to what I buy  as well.

I'll try and explain...stick with me. I use an Imac, it's 4 years old now. I've only had to have it fixed once and I don't need to worry about viruses.
The problem that I've outgrown it and appart from a little extra ram and a bigger hard drive that is the best I can do for it.


I forgot what my point was. :-[


Oh yeah, I think it was reliability, ease to use but also being able to upgrade components.


I guess you also need to pay more for brand and quality.


Are there any compatibility issues with cameras and Macs?




« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 00:33 by Dennis Holmes »

« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2009, 23:54 »
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The best bargain out there right now is the Pentax K20D. You can have them as low as $650. It has 14MP, full weather sealing (as have a number of their lenses), one of the best viewfinders etc. The reason for the low price is mostly the launch of the new Pentax K7, which has more or less the same sensor, but is smaller but even better built and faster. Pentax makes some of the best lenses you can find, but they are mostly less expensive than Canikon.

Apart from that, all the DSLRs out there are good, although some will fit better in your hand than others.

« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2009, 00:08 »
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Do most of you use Mac computers. I know it's a little of subject but somethings just don't go together. And im my mind it relates to what I buy  as well.

I'll try and explain...stick with me. I use an Imac, it's 4 years old now. I've only had to have it fixed once and I don't need to worry about viruses.
The problem that I've outgrown it and appart from a little extra ram and a bigger hard drive that is the best I can do for it.


I forgot what my point was. :-[

Of course. I shudder at the thought of having to use windows Vista...

« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2009, 01:27 »
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whereabouts are you Dennis?

I just googled you see 07 area code, are you in Brisbane? if so there seems to be about 6-8 camera shops within about 3 streets, head into there and have a play, which one is easy partly on you (pentax sometimes criticised for poor layout, yet I always found it reasonably clear and logical).

« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 01:36 by Phil »

« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2009, 02:11 »
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whereabouts are you Dennis?

I just googled you see 07 area code, are you in Brisbane? if so there seems to be about 6-8 camera shops within about 3 streets, head into there and have a play, which one is easy partly on you (pentax sometimes criticised for poor layout, yet I always found it reasonably clear and logical).



Gold Coast. Where are you? Finding the right sales person is the problem.

« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2009, 22:44 »
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lovely cold armidale :(

sorry cant be much help with the salespeople :)


 

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