Author Topic: More strange marks showing on D200 (Read 13498 times)

Phadrea · « **on:** January 20, 2015, 12:24 »

Ok, this Nikon D200 seems to be getting dirtier and softer, not to mention strange blotchy blue skies, flat contrast the more I use it. I have had it for 8 years and hardly changed lenses. I use the 18-70 kit lens and very rarely the 70-300 mm. I have tested the camera with both and marks show exactly the same so it is somewhere in the camera. I have had the camera upside down and blown the sensor with a dust blower which hasn't done a thing.

This is what I get now. There now seems to be a smear to keep the black spot company.

bunhill · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2015, 12:43 »

It's muck on the sensor. Use an illuminated lupe (eg the one from Visiible Dust) and you will see it.

Needs wet cleaning.

gostwyck · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2015, 13:20 »

It's not a good idea to use a blower as you can accidentally transfer lubrication onto the sensor (which looks like may have happened on your example above). I'd also recommend the Visible Dust cleaning kit.

Phadrea · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2015, 03:05 »

I also used a vacuum cleaner a few cm away from it to pull the dust while upside down.

roede-orm · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2015, 03:19 »

Send your cam to the next Nikon-Service and you will get back a clean cam. After 8 years there is much more dirt and dust as you can see as spots on the sensor.

Phadrea · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2015, 09:58 »

Quote from: roede-orm on January 21, 2015, 03:19

Send your cam to the next Nikon-Service and you will get back a clean cam. After 8 years there is much more dirt and dust as you can see as spots on the sensor.

That would cost a lot to send to Nikon. What about the Visible Dust cleaning kit as recommended here ? surely that will do it .

Difydave · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2015, 10:06 »

Any of the reasonable quality wet cleaning "pad on a stick" plus fluid type things would do it I'd have thought. Quick and easy.

bunhill · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2015, 10:29 »

Quote from: Difydave on January 21, 2015, 10:06

Any of the reasonable quality wet cleaning "pad on a stick" plus fluid type things would do it I'd have thought. Quick and easy.

An illuminated lupe is fantastic for actually being able to inspect the surface close up.

Herg's camera needs a wet clean. But in other situations gel sticks can be great too. This interesting video at Vimeo - vimeo.com/6551861 (starting at 13:22) shows Pentax gel sticks being used to clean m8 camera sensors at the Leica factory.

Difydave · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2015, 11:12 »

Quote from: bunhill on January 21, 2015, 10:29

Quote from: Difydave on January 21, 2015, 10:06
Any of the reasonable quality wet cleaning "pad on a stick" plus fluid type things would do it I'd have thought. Quick and easy.

An illuminated lupe is fantastic for actually being able to inspect the surface close up.

Herg's camera needs a wet clean. But in other situations gel sticks can be great too. This interesting video at Vimeo - vimeo.com/6551861 (starting at 13:22) shows Pentax gel sticks being used to clean m8 camera sensors at the Leica factory.

I shoot a Pentax, and I've heard good things about the Pentax gel sticks.
Having said that I suffer from short arms and deep pockets. So it's Pec Pads and Eclipse fluid for me. They've worked fine in the past on other cameras, although I've never needed to do more than blow out the K5, despite regular lens changes.
I think the main thing is to follow the instructions. Don't use more of the fluid thinking it will be better, and don't re-use the pads.
I use a large illuminated desk magnifier to see the dust through. That's useful for all sorts of stuff.

Phadrea · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2015, 11:17 »

Does anyone know the exact size I will need for a D200 ?

bunhill · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2015, 11:24 »

Quote from: Herg on January 21, 2015, 11:17

Does anyone know the exact size I will need for a D200 ?

For wet cleaning. Rather than buying pre-made swabs (which is costly) IMO it is better to buy something like the Dust Aid kit with which you can make up swabs for all of the different sensor sizes.

ETA: I mean their wet cleaning kit. http://dust-aid.com/wet-dslr-camera-sensor-cleaning/

(Dust Aid fluid is also flight safe unlike Eclipse. But I think Eclipse is less prone to drying marks. So I use Eclipse when I can but take the Dust Aid stuff when travelling). And the lupe. And a Visible Dust brush. And a gel stick and pad.) And a blower.

Pixart · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2015, 11:42 »

Is there no authorized service in your town? I live in a pretty small market, and Nikon has a recommended service guy here.

Elenathewise · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2015, 12:57 »

Nikon Service. Don't try to get rid of these yourself, you'll make if worse. After 8 years spending a few bucks on proper sensor cleaning should not be a big deal. They do a very good job. I have to drive more than an hour each end to get to my Nikon Service center, but it's well worth the trip. I am also a Nikon Professional Services member and they do sensor cleaning for free for me. Some photo stores offer sensor cleaning too but I was never happy with their results. Go to Nikon.

bunhill · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2015, 14:18 »

Quote from: Elenathewise on January 21, 2015, 12:57

Don't try to get rid of these yourself, you'll make if worse.

I clean mine any time the lens has been off. It's easy.

Elenathewise · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2015, 15:52 »

Quote from: bunhill on January 21, 2015, 14:18

Quote from: Elenathewise on January 21, 2015, 12:57
Don't try to get rid of these yourself, you'll make if worse.

I clean mine any time the lens has been off. It's easy.

Depends on what kind of stuff is on your sensor. There was some sticky stuff on mine once, I suspect could have been some pollen or who knows what, some mold growing?

anyhow, if it works for you, great, but I'd still go for pro cleaning every time.

roede-orm · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:08 »

Quote from: Elenathewise on January 21, 2015, 15:52

Quote from: bunhill on January 21, 2015, 14:18
Quote from: Elenathewise on January 21, 2015, 12:57
Don't try to get rid of these yourself, you'll make if worse.

I clean mine any time the lens has been off. It's easy.

Depends on what kind of stuff is on your sensor. There was some sticky stuff on mine once, I suspect could have been some pollen or who knows what, some mold growing? anyhow, if it works for you, great, but I'd still go for pro cleaning every time.

So I do, at least once a year. My experience is, I have a clean camera after I get back the cam from Nikon Service. Self-Clean can work, but often enough it works not well.

Phadrea · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:12 »

Quote from: roede-orm on January 22, 2015, 05:08

Quote from: Elenathewise on January 21, 2015, 15:52
Quote from: bunhill on January 21, 2015, 14:18
Quote from: Elenathewise on January 21, 2015, 12:57
Don't try to get rid of these yourself, you'll make if worse.

I clean mine any time the lens has been off. It's easy.

Depends on what kind of stuff is on your sensor. There was some sticky stuff on mine once, I suspect could have been some pollen or who knows what, some mold growing? anyhow, if it works for you, great, but I'd still go for pro cleaning every time.

So I do, at least once a year. My experience is, I have a clean camera after I get back the cam from Nikon Service. Self-Clean can work, but often enough it works not well.

Could you please tell me how much Nikon charge for a clean ?

bunhill · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:38 »

Quote from: Herg on January 22, 2015, 05:12

Could you please tell me how much Nikon charge for a clean ?

http://www.fixationuk.com/Fixation/Sensor%20Cleaning.html

roede-orm · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2015, 06:30 »

Quote from: bunhill on January 22, 2015, 05:38

Quote from: Herg on January 22, 2015, 05:12
Could you please tell me how much Nikon charge for a clean ?

http://www.fixationuk.com/Fixation/Sensor%20Cleaning.html

Last time (in 2014) they cleaned my camera (not only the sensor!) they charged ca. 35 Euro.

bunhill · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2015, 07:44 »

Quote from: roede-orm on January 22, 2015, 06:30

Last time (in 2014) they cleaned my camera (not only the sensor!) they charged ca. 35 Euro.

Have you watched them do the cleaning and seen what the rest of the clean involves - apart from the sensor ? My bet would be a cursory once-over with a mini-vacuum cleaner.

Anyhow - it would typically cost me over €100 per week to keep my sensor clean at those rates. That's why I think that knowing how to clean the sensor, under all circumstances, is a basic skill worth learning. Especially if you end up needing to do it at short notice for a job. I am surprised that some people only get these things cleaned occasionally. They must either be shooting with a wide aperture or else spending ages spotting skies.

roede-orm · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2015, 09:43 »

Maybe it depends on where you live? There a some regions in the world with more, and some with less dust in the air:-)

Difydave · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2015, 10:18 »

Interesting bunhill that you clean the sensor every lens change, and I've never really cleaned mine apart from the odd blow out, and (I'd forgotten about this) using one of those sticky rubber things on a stick to pick up one persistent blob after I'd been up to Norfolk. Seriously though looking under the magnifier, there's nothing much there, and a clear sky with small aperture shows nothing really. The Pentax is weather sealed, which may help some, but the lenses I use aren't, and anyway the mirror box ain't sealed when the lens is off!
The two extremes!

As far as "them" (whoever "they" are) doing a better job than you can yourself, I don't really believe it. When I've cleaned cameras in the past they've passed the sky test, and that's as good as it gets really. There is a culture of "them" telling people that they can't do it themselves because they might damage things, but looking in the past I've found no evidence for sensors being damaged, except in the case of using the wrong / too much fluid, or carelessness.
If you feel happier paying someone to do it because you really prefer not to do it, then fine.

bunhill · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2015, 11:15 »

Quote from: Difydave on January 22, 2015, 10:18

Interesting bunhill that you clean the sensor every lens change, and I've never really cleaned mine apart from the odd blow out

Illuminated loupe makes it trivial matter. I just do it as a matter of course. Like checking the film gate for hairs when changing a roll.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2015, 22:54 »

Hotter and colder too? Is that with the lens on or off?

I change lenses all day long, outside. Unless one of us lives in a computer clean room, there's going to be dust in the air. There's likely to be oil or particles from the shutter mechanism and inside the closed camera box. It's unavoidable.

Hey folks, this is not Rocket Science! Blow or vacuum and you are going to stir things up, move dust and oils around. If you are rich you can pay someone to do, what you could do yourself.

Read an learn. I use the wet system, you might like the dry or some packaged product. Doesn't matter, you can do this yourself.

I've used this for years and it works. http://copperhillimages.com/

Follow the instructions. If you like something else, it's probably going to work fine also. But follow the instructions to the letter.

Quote from: roede-orm on January 22, 2015, 09:43

Maybe it depends on where you live? There a some regions in the world with more, and some with less dust in the air:-)

Phadrea · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2015, 02:33 »

Well, I just got the camera back from Nikon after a clean and the dirty black mark (top right) is still showing in the exact place, although the smear has gone. Tried both lenses and still the same. So what can it be ?

dirkr · « **Reply #25 on:** May 06, 2015, 04:38 »

Quote from: Herg on May 06, 2015, 02:33

Well, I just got the camera back from Nikon after a clean and the dirty black mark (top right) is still showing in the exact place, although the smear has gone. Tried both lenses and still the same. So what can it be ?

A bad job by Nikon.
Seriously, I cannot imagine that this is caused by anything other than dust / dirt on the sensor.
Is it showing at any aperture? When I last had my camera (Canon) cleaned by a professional dealer they told me that they will not guarantee the result to be free of sensor spots for apertures smaller than f11...

Maybe I will consider going back to cleaning myself, that worked well in the past and I only gave the camera to the dealer for cleaning because I was too lazy to do it myself...

Phadrea · « **Reply #26 on:** May 06, 2015, 05:35 »

£31 it cost me

I have emailed them and am awaiting a reply.

enstoker · « **Reply #27 on:** May 06, 2015, 05:45 »

Quote from: dirkr on May 06, 2015, 04:38

Quote from: Herg on May 06, 2015, 02:33
Well, I just got the camera back from Nikon after a clean and the dirty black mark (top right) is still showing in the exact place, although the smear has gone. Tried both lenses and still the same. So what can it be ?

A bad job by Nikon.
Seriously, I cannot imagine that this is caused by anything other than dust / dirt on the sensor.
Is it showing at any aperture? When I last had my camera (Canon) cleaned by a professional dealer they told me that they will not guarantee the result to be free of sensor spots for apertures smaller than f11...

Maybe I will consider going back to cleaning myself, that worked well in the past and I only gave the camera to the dealer for cleaning because I was too lazy to do it myself...

Haloooo

?
free of sensor spots for apertures smaller than f11...

It must be spot free at f 22 !
When I clean my 5D it is spot free even on f 32 (Canon 70-200)
And so must be !

Obviously everybody can be Nikon service guy.

farbled · « **Reply #28 on:** May 06, 2015, 09:23 »

Quote from: Herg on January 20, 2015, 12:24

Ok, this Nikon D200 seems to be getting dirtier and softer, not to mention strange blotchy blue skies, flat contrast the more I use it. I have had it for 8 years and hardly changed lenses. I use the 18-70 kit lens and very rarely the 70-300 mm. I have tested the camera with both and marks show exactly the same so it is somewhere in the camera. I have had the camera upside down and blown the sensor with a dust blower which hasn't done a thing.

This is what I get now. There now seems to be a smear to keep the black spot company.

I don't usually recommend this, but since its 8 years old and I've done it with the same camera... maybe try a can of compressed air to clean it? Not full power but incrementally. Also, have you done all the firmware updates for the D200 over the years? If that doesn't sort the blotchy bits, maybe a service cleaning from Nikon might be your next step. I loved my D200's and they could take a beating for sure, but eventually they do wear out.

Difydave · « **Reply #29 on:** May 06, 2015, 09:51 »

Quote from: Herg on May 06, 2015, 02:33

Well, I just got the camera back from Nikon after a clean and the dirty black mark (top right) is still showing in the exact place, although the smear has gone. Tried both lenses and still the same. So what can it be ?

Get a decent light and a magnifying glass. Open the camera for cleaning, and have a look at the sensor. Try not to breathe over it or drop hair in it. Angling it a bit helps I find. Should be obvious if there's anything on there, remembering that the image is inverted on the sensor.
As I said before, just get the pec pads and fluid, and follow the instructions. It really is dead easy.

You'll never pay for "professional" cleaning again.

Phadrea · « **Reply #30 on:** May 06, 2015, 10:04 »

Quote

maybe a service cleaning from Nikon might be your next step. I loved my D200's and they could take a beating for sure, but eventually they do wear out.

I did send it to Nikon who didn't do the job properly. I am awaiting a response from them but as usual their customer service is poor.

bunhill · « **Reply #31 on:** May 06, 2015, 11:35 »

Quote from: farbled on May 06, 2015, 09:23

I don't usually recommend this, but since its 8 years old and I've done it with the same camera... maybe try a can of compressed air to clean it?

I strongly advise against using canned air. The propellant can come out as a liquid under certain circumstances. I was in a darkroom once when someone (else) destroyed a very valuable negative using that stuff at slightly the wrong angle.

Also - compressed air will not clean a smear / smudge. The correct approach is to do a wet clean using Eclipse or similar solution. Then clean for any dust spots using either dedicated brushes or a gummy dust stick (eg the Pentax one or similar - Leica use them in the factory). An illuminated loupe is essential for examining the sensor surface properly

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #32 on:** May 06, 2015, 15:38 »

it's not true that minute dust on sensor will not show until f11 or smaller. it will still show as large soft focus balls but you won't see it unless you look for them closely at 100% (200%+ is better to spot them)
in sky .
i used to have rejections in the early days for bad editing. i screamed and banged my head against the wall, until one day i checked closely to see all my sky shots were riddled with dirt UFOs...
only i didn't see them until i checked very closely.

dpimborough · « **Reply #33 on:** May 07, 2015, 01:48 »

Visible dust sensor swabs and a small bottle of cleaning fluid.

It's all I ever use.

Blow the sensor cavity out with a rocket blower then clean with swab (never use a dry swab)

Never scrub just a light pressure to swab across the plate.

Remember you are not cleaning the sensor just the clear filter plate on top of the sensor.

Never ever use compressed air cans. The propellant leaves stains.

Clean in the most dust free environment in the house (usually the bathroom)

After cleaning put the lens back on and shoot a plain surface out of focus at f22 and look at the image. Any dust or specks will show up on the shot.

Repeat as necessary.

Phadrea · « **Reply #34 on:** May 12, 2015, 02:25 »

Nikon got back to me and offered another clean. As I will be without my camera again I thought they would fast track it. Nope. The repair is estimated to be done on the 19th. Their response is pretty dire as they hardly answer emails, especially when I requested them to at least give me a faster turnaround (in fairness, it is their error) For a company this big they have a very poor customer service.

farbled · « **Reply #35 on:** May 12, 2015, 14:55 »

Quote from: Herg on May 12, 2015, 02:25

Nikon got back to me and offered another clean. As I will be without my camera again I thought they would fast track it. Nope. The repair is estimated to be done on the 19th. Their response is pretty dire as they hardly answer emails, especially when I requested them to at least give me a faster turnaround (in fairness, it is their error) For a company this big they have a very poor customer service.

Par for the course with them. Here in BC, Canada, I waited 4 months before finally showing up at their depot and "discovered" that the number I had been leaving messages on had never once been checked.

And fyi, when I suggested canned air, it was reluctantly, sparingly and only as an absolute last resort.

Af8 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 13, 2015, 00:49 »

May be worth speaking to Nikon as they will likely have some records of the work done and probably some test images which may allow them to help. When I had a lens adjusted recently they were able to tell me quite a bit of detail around what was and wasn't done and why.

Phadrea · « **Reply #37 on:** June 01, 2015, 04:24 »

They returned the camera after some time and this time (although I haven't had time to test it yet due to illness) it seems clean. The body seems to have had a clean too.

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Author Topic: More strange marks showing on D200 (Read 13498 times)

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