Author Topic: Another plane crash again. RIP MH17... (Read 44400 times)

Netherspite · « **Reply #50 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:24 »

You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.

robhainer · « **Reply #51 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:24 »

Quote from: Netherspite on July 20, 2014, 16:15

There would not be any rebels if new ukrainian nazi government wouldn't try to suppress ethnic minorities and revoke their rights.
So all of this goes to the hands of the new ukrainian government and those who inspired the revolution.

Quote
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/383076/Slobodan-Milosevic

A quote from the article:
"During 1998 the long-standing dispute between Serbia and the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo deteriorated rapidly into open armed conflict between federal security forces and the guerrilla Kosovo Liberation Army, which had begun killing Serbian policemen and politicians."

so the albanians started killing serbian policemen and politicians and you call serbians aggressors ?

No. I said NATO stepped in to prevent ethnic cleansing, which you denied. It's in the same paragraph you clipped.

Milosovic "ordered a program of ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians that drove hundreds of thousands of them into neighbouring countries as refugees."

Netherspite · « **Reply #52 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:26 »

Quote

No. I said NATO stepped in to prevent ethnic cleansing, which you denied. It's in the same paragraph you clipped.

Milosovic "ordered a program of ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians that drove hundreds of thousands of them into neighbouring countries as refugees."

I'm not saying his actions were the right answer to the albanian aggression but he was not the first who started it.
Imagine some ethnic minority in the US start killing the policemen and politicians. How will US deal with it? I don't think they'll just let them separate.

robhainer · « **Reply #53 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:28 »

Quote from: Netherspite on July 20, 2014, 16:24

You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.

How? By overthrowing a puppet government? Citizens of any nation have the right to overthrow a despotic government that ignores their interests.

This whole fight isn't about the rights of ethnic minorities. It's about how much power Putin will have. Nothing more. Those separatists don't care about rights. What they care about is doing what Putin tells them to do.

robhainer · « **Reply #54 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:31 »

Quote from: Netherspite on July 20, 2014, 16:26

Quote
No. I said NATO stepped in to prevent ethnic cleansing, which you denied. It's in the same paragraph you clipped.

Milosovic "ordered a program of ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians that drove hundreds of thousands of them into neighbouring countries as refugees."

I'm not saying his actions were the right answer to the albanian aggression but he was not the first who started it.
Imagine some ethnic minority in the US start killing the policemen and politicians. How will US deal with it? I don't think they'll just let them separate.

No, but we wouldn't go out and slaughter a whole ethnic group to solve the problem either. The U.S. isn't perfect. It never will be. We've made mistakes in our history, and we make mistakes today. But you know what? We own those mistakes and try to learn from them.

Netherspite · « **Reply #55 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:35 »

Quote from: robhainer on July 20, 2014, 16:28

Quote from: Netherspite on July 20, 2014, 16:24
You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.

How? By overthrowing a puppet government? Citizens of any nation have the right to overthrow a despotic government that ignores their interests.

This whole fight isn't about the rights of ethnic minorities. It's about how much power Putin will have. Nothing more. Those separatists don't care about rights. What they care about is doing what Putin tells them to do.

By overthrowing a legal government and replacing it with a puppet nationalist one.
Citizens of any nation have the right to legally elect another government if they don't like current one.
And I don't see how the new rebels against current government are any different from the rebels against previous government. It is all the same: attempt to not follow the directions of the government they don't like.

This whole fight IS in fact about the rights of ethnic minorities. The power Putin will have... Are you serious? This world is unipolar and the only powerful empire we have is the US who does whatever they want wherever they want. The picture posted above was describing the situation very fine: NATO attempts to circle Russia with its bases and claims its the Russia who wants the war. Please...

Quote

No, but we wouldn't go out and slaughter a whole ethnic group to solve the problem either. The U.S. isn't perfect. It never will be. We've made mistakes in our history, and we make mistakes today. But you know what? We own those mistakes and try to learn from them.

As I said, his actions weren't the correct answer to the situation. But actions of the kosovar albanians weren't peaceful and correct either. And it was albanians who provoked the conflict.
And how the bombing of the ethnic minorities in the Eastern Ukraine is any different from ethnic cleansing in Kosovo?

robhainer · « **Reply #56 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:40 »

Quote from: Netherspite on July 20, 2014, 16:35

Quote from: robhainer on July 20, 2014, 16:28
Quote from: Netherspite on July 20, 2014, 16:24
You seem to skip the important part of the story: legally elected president was forced to leave the country.
After that the country was in the hands of the ukrainian nationalists. I completely support their wish to be closer to the rest of Europe. However, their first action was to revoke rights of the ethnic minorities in the country.

How? By overthrowing a puppet government? Citizens of any nation have the right to overthrow a despotic government that ignores their interests.

This whole fight isn't about the rights of ethnic minorities. It's about how much power Putin will have. Nothing more. Those separatists don't care about rights. What they care about is doing what Putin tells them to do.

By overthrowing a legal government and replacing it with a puppet nationalist one.
Citizens of any nation have the right to legally elect another government if they don't like current one.
And I don't see how the new rebels against current government are any different from the rebels against previous government. It is all the same: attempt to not follow the directions of the government they don't like.

This whole fight IS in fact about the rights of ethnic minorities. The power Putin will have... Are you serious? This world is unipolar and the only powerful empire we have is the US who does whatever they want wherever they want. The picture posted above was describing the situation very fine: NATO attempts to circle Russia with its bases and claims its the Russia who wants the war. Please...

Quote
No, but we wouldn't go out and slaughter a whole ethnic group to solve the problem either. The U.S. isn't perfect. It never will be. We've made mistakes in our history, and we make mistakes today. But you know what? We own those mistakes and try to learn from them.

As I said, his actions weren't the correct answer to the situation. But actions of the kosovar albanians weren't peaceful and correct either. And it was albanians who provoked the conflict.
And how the bombing of the ethnic minorities in the Eastern Ukraine is any different from ethnic cleansing in Kosovo?

The difference is that Milosovic targeted civilians on purpose. Ukraine isn't doing that. They are targeting Russian-backed proxy fighters.

This conflict is a 100 percent power grab by Putin. Everyone but you and his supports seem to see that. If they wanted the truth to come out, they would let international investigators into the crash site instead of interfering with it.

Netherspite · « **Reply #57 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:41 »

They are targeting civilians on purpose: to provoke Putin to invade the Eastern Ukraine and give the US a fine reason to start aggression against Russia.
That would be the most pleasing ending for the US and of course Putin won't do that.

The most sad thing is the innocent people dying because of these dirty geopolitic games.

robhainer · « **Reply #58 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:44 »

I'm pretty sure you don't have to worry about the U.S. doing anything. Our president is too much of a worthless waste of skin to stand up to Putin.

(And yes, I can say things like that about my president without going to prison!)

Netherspite · « **Reply #59 on:** July 20, 2014, 16:47 »

Russian citizens can say things like that about their president without going to prison as well.
The government attempts to reduce the freedom of speech in the internet but it is not that bad yet.
I don't like the tendency though.

(and yes, I can admit terrible actions of the side I seem to defend, since my PoV is unbiased, I'm not pro-russian or anti-US)

gbalex · « **Reply #60 on:** July 20, 2014, 18:56 »

Quote from: Netherspite on July 20, 2014, 16:47

Russian citizens can say things like that about their president without going to prison as well.
The government attempts to reduce the freedom of speech in the internet but it is not that bad yet.
I don't like the tendency though.

(and yes, I can admit terrible actions of the side I seem to defend, since my PoV is unbiased, I'm not pro-russian or anti-US)

You should not have gotten and negative votes for this comment, however I am not surprised you did considering the mentality of some participants.

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

Mumut Greenstripe · « **Reply #61 on:** July 21, 2014, 23:41 »

nvm..

borg · « **Reply #62 on:** July 31, 2014, 13:35 »

Russia gets sanctions because one crashed airplane under unsolved conditions in "war zone" in other country, Israel gets more weapon for killing children!
WHAT A WORLD! WHAT A MORAL! WHAT A HYPOCRISY!!!

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Author Topic: Another plane crash again. RIP MH17... (Read 44400 times)

Netherspite

robhainer

Netherspite

robhainer

robhainer

Netherspite

robhainer

Netherspite

robhainer

Netherspite

gbalex

Mumut Greenstripe

borg

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