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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: borg on March 07, 2012, 05:15
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To finally end up that story! :'( :'(
This morning I watched an Italian documentary film ... The expedition was traveling by trucks from Italy to the Pacific and back ...
This episode was in Iraq ...
They showed the place where the bomb shelter hit by U.S. "smart" bomb and killed 1,200 people inside ...
I am from Croatia, my country has gone through the war 20 years ago, although I have not seen or heard anything of war, only through the TV, because I live in a part of country where wasn't war, but this is something different...
This morning I saw in that documentary what is really terrible, shocking, disgusting ...
What "advanced" western civilization can make to the poor part of this world ...
They showed little children hands "glued" to the walls, they were carbonized on 2000 degrees Celsius, which was produced by that airplane bomb ...
But we are still talking about RPI, PRD, intoxicated with our "gentle" lives, angry if oil jumps 1% ...
People..., their little hands are still there, fossilized on the walls and ceilings in 3D!!! :'(
I am desperate .... :-[ :-\ ???
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Not really sure what the point of this post is. You mention oil prices, bombs, USA, and desparation. The only thing I'm getting out of this is what seems to add up to another "the USA is evil" rant. What are you trying to get across here?
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Im getting fed up with this USA and England-evil rants, without these two countries, the entire world would be waring swasticas and star-of Davids, free enterprise would be killed and if you didnt like flipping burgers at Macdonalds, you would end up in a modern style camp, where Arbeit macht frei.
People have got very short memories, but are the first ones to scream rape. I mean God forbidd, without a world police, etc, we would all be turning our sour faces towards Mecca, nothing wrong with that but it would be enforced, not of free will.
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I am desperate .... :-[ :-\ ???
you sound shell shocked! Its understandable to feel that way when you see such things but lagerleak is right and you should study your history and consider the atrocities that have occurred elsewhere and the countless millions of people that have died.
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Im getting fed up with this USA and England-evil rants, without these two countries, the entire world would be waring swasticas and star-of Davids, free enterprise would be killed and if you didnt like flipping burgers at Macdonalds, you would end up in a modern style camp, where Arbeit macht frei.
People have got very short memories, but are the first ones to scream rape. I mean God forbidd, without a world police, etc, we would all be turning our sour faces towards Mecca, nothing wrong with that but it would be enforced, not of free will.
Sure. Do you really think like that? The USA brought lots of good things to the world, but lots of Bulls**t too. Any radical view is questionable.
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It's the United Kingdom, not England. A lot of the troops come from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I'm against 99% of wars. I wish we only took action when our country had a direct imminent threat. We're criticised if we do something and criticised if we don't. Every country has it's own propaganda and I think it's hard to know what's really going on sometimes. I occasionally look at foreign news channels and its incredible how different the reports on the same events are.
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Im getting fed up with this USA and England-evil rants, without these two countries, the entire world would be waring swasticas and star-of Davids, free enterprise would be killed and if you didnt like flipping burgers at Macdonalds, you would end up in a modern style camp, where Arbeit macht frei.
People have got very short memories, but are the first ones to scream rape. I mean God forbidd, without a world police, etc, we would all be turning our sour faces towards Mecca, nothing wrong with that but it would be enforced, not of free will.
Sure. Do you really think like that? The USA brought lots of good things to the world, but lots of Bulls**t too. Any radical view is questionable.
Every single country in the world brings some good and some bulls, unavoidable! besides, who want to live in a perfect world? rather boring wouldnt you say? a world chemically free from any ambitions. nice, isnt it.
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War is a very complex issue. The 'horrors of war' are indeed horrific, and on the whole I am against war. OTOH, while some are crushed by war, there are those who say they have been 'liberated' from atrocities by the same war.
I would love to live in a world of peace - but at the same time, I will never shed a tear for a Nazi. I saw a documentary about Nazi Germany in (I think) The World at War series. I still have nightmares about it, and feel every erosion of liberty in the modern age at my very core because of it.
The complex part is that wars have often occurred precisely because someone, somewhere, found another's atrocities abhorrent and was moved to action. In the process, and in the 'fog of war' that group somehow commits atrocities of it's own - and we end up with a situation where the 'white hats' and the 'black hats' are harder to determine. Sadly real life isn't as clear as Hollywood Westerns.
Borg - be careful not to assume that everyone's lives are so rosy, simply because they participate in microstock. We all have tragedies behind us or in front of us to varying degrees.
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Whats the price of oil got to do with it?
Before you go banging on about the bombing of a bunker in Iraq and critise the USA or UK then you should have a think about the atrocities committed by Croatia in the not too distant part during the various wars in the Balkans.
Lagereek is right with out the US and UK taking a stand the world would be in a pretty crapy state............
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I am also shocked by your comments too!
I just can not believe you can find a justification for this destruction in some historic wars, such WW2!
Also, who is talking about "USA and England-evil rants", Macdonald's, or "Arbeit macht frei"!? I am talking about innocent kids...
Is it okay to weep for the victims of the WTC, while these children are categorized as "fighting against Nazism"
On the same way Nazzzis were searched in history to find reasons to eliminate Jews and convince half of Europe through propaganda with a theory that they are doing "right thing"!
These comments are enough proof that the world can expect new world war!
This state of awareness is a precondition for a new collective suffering ...
Also, I know a lot about world history... History is my another passion so probably I know more than average man on this world...
I understand that it is easy to find excuses for the "intervention" as long as the war cannot come in your garden!
But in fact you do not know what actually start wars, you have to experience it
For sure, every smart man can see lot more of these "catalysts" in today's Western society than elsewhere before ...
The administration still holds our civilization together, but if the crisis remain, you will see much greater horrors than you can see now on the Middle East or elsewhere ... You will see what you neighbor is able to do after "schooling propaganda", movies, games and politics ...
Also, It has no connection with nation, religion, race, only with psychology...
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^^^ What's all this got to do with the price of oil? What about beer? Beer costs more than oil.
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Whats the price of oil got to do with it?
Before you go banging on about the bombing of a bunker in Iraq and critise the USA or UK then you should have a think about the atrocities committed by Croatia in the not too distant part during the various wars in the Balkans.
Lagereek is right with out the US and UK taking a stand the world would be in a pretty crapy state............
We know about the crimes of the Croats in the last "war" and today we are still paying for it .... Every day we are all aware of this and we have to deal with it...
For us there is no collateral victims like for NATO or any big force...
No matter if I am Croat, Serb or some other small nation, slowly becomes clear who started the war in this region and why...
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^^^ What's all this got to do with the price of oil? What about beer? Beer costs more than oil.
A liter of gasoline costs cca $2 in Europe... I do not know what is the price per liter in America ... Perhaps here lies the answer ...
Beer costs more in Croatia than in USA... 8)
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Whats the price of oil got to do with it?
Before you go banging on about the bombing of a bunker in Iraq and critise the USA or UK then you should have a think about the atrocities committed by Croatia in the not too distant part during the various wars in the Balkans.
Lagereek is right with out the US and UK taking a stand the world would be in a pretty crapy state............
We know about the crimes of the Croats in the last "war" and today we are still paying for it .... Every day we are all aware of this and we have to deal with it...
For us there is no collateral victims like for NATO or any big force...
No matter if I am Croat, Serb or some other small nation, slowly becomes clear who started the war in this region and why...
Please dont get us wrong! ofcourse we sympathise with you and its horrible, I agree, only sooner or later these discussions always leads up to the US and Great-Britain, being the bad guys, etc.
and its totally unfair, they have saved our @sses, plenty of times and will probabaly do so in future as well.
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Whats the price of oil got to do with it?
Before you go banging on about the bombing of a bunker in Iraq and critise the USA or UK then you should have a think about the atrocities committed by Croatia in the not too distant part during the various wars in the Balkans.
Lagereek is right with out the US and UK taking a stand the world would be in a pretty crapy state............
We know about the crimes of the Croats in the last "war" and today we are still paying for it .... Every day we are all aware of this and we have to deal with it...
For us there is no collateral victims like for NATO or any big force...
No matter if I am Croat, Serb or some other small nation, slowly becomes clear who started the war in this region and why...
It was just the same during WW2, you fought with the Nazisss, built concentration camps like Jasenovac etc. But then again, George Bush Sr.'s father financed the Nazisss and his sons were elected twice to lead the USA. Well, Jr. really wasn't...All we can get from that is that war is big business, take a look at some other documentaries, such as the oil factor, Iraq for sale etc. In Afghanistan it's all about the poppy fields, never has the production of opium been that high, as it is since the occupation. First they destroy a country, the war industry (and private security companies) makes profit, then they rebuild it, construction and oil companies make money. Most of the politicians own the companies that come to make huge profits in these countries (Halliburton etc). Lobbies really make a lot out of it, it's just the poor and innocent that always die for nothing. It really is a sick world we live in.
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Hey people, I like America!
It is probably good that the strongest force on the world comes from a nation which is the sum of all the nations of the world ...
I'm talking only about the "desensitization" of us who belong to the supposedly more developed world...
Here lies the greatest danger, not from there, some renegade countries...
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I can't believe reading this comments. In what heartless, egoistic world we are living.
Borg, it seams that someone can feel what are you talking only if he/she lived trough the war. You experience it from Zagreb, and me from Dubrovnik. I know the feeling and what are you talking about.
In what world we are living, such a terrible and bad world. But I believe that one or two who read your post and understand what you are talking about then this is big progress.
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Not sure what this has to do with Microstock. Borg, your tone sure reads like you blame/hate America and Western civilization. This photo of yours sure is interesting.... http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?gallery_id=208108&id=208108#id=61372279 (http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?gallery_id=208108&id=208108#id=61372279)
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Millions of people marched to protest against the Iraq war in the UK, waving 'Not in my name' banners. It was a hugely sensitive issue here. This might interest you, Borg.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2765041.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2765041.stm)
BTW, I hope you didn't think I was comparing those children to Na-zis. I didn't mean that at all. They were just my wandering thoughts about war in general and it's complexities, and how nothing is really as clear-cut as we're led to believe. Someone else's post made me think about Na-zis. No connection intended with the awful scene you saw.
Note: Sorry to hyphenate 'Na-zis' like that, but the forum won't allow me to type the word directly (bizarre!)
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Please don't let this turn into a hating thread, especially in a nationalistic way. I'm almost sorry I wrote my previous post, since I know, most ppl won't understand it, they won't understand the true msg, but just tear some things out of context and the debate will needlesly heat up. The point of my post was, it's the lobbies behind all those atrocities that should be blamed. Not the ppl of this or that nation. Ppl should open their mind and not just believe the media, which is again controlled by lobbies and is just feeding us the info they want to feed us we, so they can condition, brainwash us. Some are talking about TV being a mean of mass hypnosis (I find it a bit far fetched, but you never know). Internet is the only means of free flow of information, but they also try to put a stop to it with documents like, PIPA, SOPA or ACTA. Because they can't control the internet.
Personally I have no beef with members of any nation. Hating someone based on nationality is just stupid. Many are mentioning Americans and Brits around here. I dunno, but from what I can see, Americans are still on top of the game, wether we're talking about contributors (well, Yuri is No. 1, but take a look at top 10) or agencies. And around here, most post are made by them (Brits or Americans) as well. I can't image this forum without the likes of Gostwyck, Lisafx, ShadySue, PaulieWalnuts, Baldrick and Lagereek. All Brits or Americans (at least partly).
Instead of fighting or arguing, we should unite ;)
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MatHayward this is "off topic" part of this forum... So this theme can be appropriate for this topic... I am glad you like my photo... ;)
I don't want to blame/hate any country or anybody, just politics and collective consciousness, there is no border,nation,race for that...
Many Americans are losing their sons and daughters in modern wars, also they lose their living standard every day...
There is no "black/white" conclusions in my life...
I 'm actually "crippled" for prejudices ... I grew up during the war when I had all of conflicted nations among my family and friends ...
So, I can not be fascinated by anything other than objectivity ...
I'm sorry if I offended anyone,I do not mean to!
This is only desire for knowledge from facts...
P.S.
Great post and point Wut! Lobbies! Not nations, even politics... Just lobbies!
Thank you wut and dbajurin and other who understand!
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I'm from Italy, so I'm really grateful, and always will be, to American, British, Australian, Canadian and all of the world people who died in WW2 to make my country free, alongside with Italians. But, you know, that does't mean that Hiroshima was the right choice. Nor it was the atrocities of British in India, or French's in North Africa, or Italians' in Africa, or Spanish in South America, or Chinese, or Japanese, or Russians... And so on.
I want to say that if you make one good thing, it does not mean you are always right in what you do: it's not fair to say "America is evil", but it's not true to say "America is always right". Or better: nor "Western countries are always right" is as false as "Western countries are always wrong".
The first duty we have as citizens of the world is to keep our eyes open and to think always with critical sense, first of all about what our countries make.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of Americans, British, French, Spanish, Italians and Germans actually don't like all that their countries do in 3rd and 4th world.
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Have a heart for that Koufax73! VERY well said indeed.
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How about a new kind of war? This video is worth 30 minutes of your day :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc[/youtube]
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I'm from Italy, so I'm really grateful, and always will be, to American, British, Australian, Canadian and all of the world people who died in WW2 to make my country free, alongside with Italians. But, you know, that does't mean that Hiroshima was the right choice. Nor it was the atrocities of British in India, or French's in North Africa, or Italians' in Africa, or Spanish in South America, or Chinese, or Japanese, or Russians... And so on.
I want to say that if you make one good thing, it does not mean you are always right in what you do: it's not fair to say "America is evil", but it's not true to say "America is always right". Or better: nor "Western countries are always right" is as false as "Western countries are always wrong".
The first duty we have as citizens of the world is to keep our eyes open and to think always with critical sense, first of all about what our countries make.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of Americans, British, French, Spanish, Italians and Germans actually don't like all that their countries do in 3rd and 4th world.
Exactly and to say for instance you're an Italian, you murdered my grand-grand father in 1905 in Africa and hate every Italian for that is stupid, just blinding hatriot (I hope you get the example, any nation could be mentioned). But he'd be missing so much because of that. I absolutely love Italy, I've traveled there a few times, north, south, no matter the place, I liked it or even loved it. Such a rich culture, just the best food in the world, nice ppl (the nicest I've met are from NW of Sicily, but that was just my experience), so much sights to see and the way of life, especially in the south is just perfect, I'd definitely live there, the climate is great as well. And you could say the same about America and miss great sights like the Grand Canyon or miss the visit of, what is IMO the greatest city in the world, NYC. The city that never sleeps, melting pot, I absolutely loved it. Or Britain. Yes you can say, bad food even worse weather, but the ppl are great, I love their sense of humour, I love football which they invented etc. You can miss so many things because of generalization and nationalism.
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Hey! The food's fine!.
Oh hang on... I just realised that I always eat Italian food... :D
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Hey! The food's fine!.
Oh hang on... I just realised that I always eat Italian food... :D
Haha, great! That's what I meant before, great sense of humour ;)
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Please don't let this turn into a hating thread, especially in a nationalistic way. I'm almost sorry I wrote my previous post, since I know, most ppl won't understand it, they won't understand the true msg, but just tear some things out of context and the debate will needlesly heat up. The point of my post was, it's the lobbies behind all those atrocities that should be blamed.
I think this is a very, very astute point. Here in the US, Pres. Dwight Eisenhower, a war hero himself, warned in 1961 of the dangers of the "Military Industrial Complex".
In the past, it seems that wars were fought because of immediate threats. Countries invading other countries, and/or genocides being committed. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan seem to be unrelated to any direct or immediate threat. Instead, it appears that they were, and continue to be, waged for the profit of some well placed business interests.
Whether or not that's true, I don't know, but that is how it seems to me. And Wut is absolutely right that large numbers of the population in the aggressor countries do not support the wars. I would certainly have supported our intervention in WW2 if I had been alive then, but I do not support wars waged to put money in the pockets of Haliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater, or the various oil companies. And I vote. But sometimes my votes are in the minority.
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Hey people, I like America!
Oh hey wow, so you are a good guy after all! That's great news.
So I guess the only thing I'm confused about now is your hope that the price of gas will increase 100X. As far as I can tell the only thing that would happen there is the global economy would crash and burn. Millions of people would lose their jobs and be unable to provide for their families. Sounds like you love us Westerners so clearly that can't really be your "hope" can it?
There are 3.78 Liters in a gallon. If gas was $100 per liter that means it would be $378.00 per gallon. It would cost me $9,450.00 for a tank of gas. I would need 27,794 subscription sales per week to be able to get to work and back. If you "like America" how can you hope for that.
Sorry, but I choose to take your hatred personally. I wasn't complimenting the photo of yours I linked above but rather expressing concern that your true "hope" is revealed there.
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Yep! financial disater, global economic colapse, depression, etc, is another kind of war, not much better then conventional war, how can you hope for that? beats me :-\
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Yep! financial disater, global economic colapse, depression, etc, is another kind of war, not much better then conventional war, how can you hope for that? beats me :-\
Since you mentioned it, I watched this movie last week and it was pretty good, worth watching it http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/) . Plot:"Follows the key people at an investment bank, over a 24-hour period, during the early stages of the financial crisis". The title sure relates to MS industry ;D
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Hey people, I like America!
Oh hey wow, so you are a good guy after all! That's great news.
So I guess the only thing I'm confused about now is your hope that the price of gas will increase 100X. As far as I can tell the only thing that would happen there is the global economy would crash and burn. Millions of people would lose their jobs and be unable to provide for their families. Sounds like you love us Westerners so clearly that can't really be your "hope" can it?
There are 3.78 Liters in a gallon. If gas was $100 per liter that means it would be $378.00 per gallon. It would cost me $9,450.00 for a tank of gas. I would need 27,794 subscription sales per week to be able to get to work and back. If you "like America" how can you hope for that.
Sorry, but I choose to take your hatred personally. I wasn't complimenting the photo of yours I linked above but rather expressing concern that your true "hope" is revealed there.
Yes I like America like every other free country... Maybe that is not "love on first sight" , I haven't desire to live there (Croatia is quite good for me), but certainly this is not any type of hate...
$ 100 is just figurative matter, so I am surprised with your calculations ...
It represents only my desire for new technologies and abandoning dependence on oil ...
Maybe then they would stop wars and "revolutions" in those countries that have a bit more oil than average (Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc)... What a coincidence!
I'm sorry that you also misunderstood my picture ... It should be only a message that calls on caution. Dramatic image that should cause a positive reaction!
P.S.
I just wanted to send a message that "moral" people should not build their own standards on other people's suffering!
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Soon they'll start wars for water ;)
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I'm from Croatia also, as a matter of fact from most destroyed town in that war. (google Vukovar if someone don't know). That town, as opposite from Zagreb, really suffered from that horrible war.
From 1991 I live in Osijek, but that doesn't matter, I was too young to go to war.
When in 1995 NATO attacked Serbs in Bosnia most of people here were very happy about it. It was unfair war where ex-Yu army killed thousands of mostly unarmed Bosnian people in Sarajevo, Srebrenica and so on...
there were also war crimes committed by Bosnia people on unarmed Serbs, no doubt about that. In Croatia also. Not in volume what Serbs done in Vukovar, but crime is a crime, doesn't matter if serb, croat or bosnian done it.
Not a single "normal" (don't like to use that term) person would like to see people who committed war crimes walking free in the street.
Nothing in this world is black or white. To my fellow countryman who opened this thread, you live of money you made mostly from American stock companies, me also. I'm not a CNN/FOX/BBC blind freak, I can also see that the foreign policy USA was doing last decade or even before that is in some way very wrong. There are many countries mostly in Africa that may need some help, but without resources like oil or so, they are just not interesting for any actions. I also think that policy where noone can judge American soldiers for war crimes but American justice is wrong as long as other countries have to take their generals, soldiers to Hague for example. This is wrong if we are talking about equal rights to anyone. This way, it looks like few hundreds years ago, when only justice was military power, and that is wrong.
I don't want to imagine what would have been if Russia were world police. I don't want to tell that it will surely be apocalypse, not at all, but we all know that USSR was "divided" (sorry for my English) and there must have been good reasons for that.
No empire has lasted forever and none will, I would like to see some equal power on opposed sites and we will see this soon I believe, but would it be good think, time will tell.
I hate to see USA soldiers piss on dead soldiers in foreign countries, it is just plain wrong and makes world think of them what they think. Also term "collateral victims", where dozens of innocent children dies is something that either should stop, or someone need to feel consequences for their "mistakes".
One more thing is, most of Americans want to change USA foreign politics, but there is nothing people can really do. Corporations are too strong, so no new president can make any big change. I don't believe most Americans wants that thousands of their friends, brothers, fathers go to war on some unknown country. There were many protest against war, not only in USA, but in Israel also. But they, besides few protests, can't do anything about that.
Influential corps and individuals do these things, and they care about American/NATO soldiers same as they care about collateral victims of Iraqi children or any other nations.
Phew... long post. Sorry for my English again.
My point is, USA make some bad moves in foreign policy, but would the world be better if China or Russia were in place of "world police". Not so sure about it. Nothing is black or white. Only MJ song. ;)
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Since you mentioned it, I watched this movie last week and it was pretty good, worth watching it [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/[/url] ([url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/[/url]) . Plot:"Follows the key people at an investment bank, over a 24-hour period, during the early stages of the financial crisis". The title sure relates to MS industry ;D
Margin Call was a great movie. Very illuminating. I also liked Too Big To Fail, which was along similar lines.
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Since you mentioned it, I watched this movie last week and it was pretty good, worth watching it [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/[/url] ([url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/[/url]) . Plot:"Follows the key people at an investment bank, over a 24-hour period, during the early stages of the financial crisis". The title sure relates to MS industry ;D
Margin Call was a great movie. Very illuminating. I also liked Too Big To Fail, which was along similar lines.
kind of enjoyed it too but the end its kind of fast, the dog at her ex wife etc I get the "moral" but just not good enough, deserved a better ending
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$ 100 is just figurative matter, so I am surprised with your calculations ...
It represents only my desire for new technologies and abandoning dependence on oil ...
I just wanted to send a message that "moral" people should not build their own standards on other people's suffering!
Huh, I guess I'm still a bit confused because what you just wrote seems a little bit different than the first post you made opening this thread. In that post you said "But we are talking about RPI, PRD, intoxicated with our "gentle" lives, angry if oil jumps 1% ..."
That statement along with the title of the thread I interpreted to imply that you perceive us (when I say us, I mean those of us from the United States posting in this forum specifically since you mentioned our silly discussions of RPI and PRD) as spoiled or "gentle." I didn't catch the part about your desire to see technology advancements in there. Oh well, I guess it's my mistake.
Oh wait...that last part of your last quote where you said "moral people should not build their own standards on other people's suffering!" Who exactly are you referring to there? I don't want there to be any more mixups. Could you please elaborate and let me know who you are referring to with that statement?
Thanks,
Mat
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Since you mentioned it, I watched this movie last week and it was pretty good, worth watching it [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/[/url] ([url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1615147/[/url]) . Plot:"Follows the key people at an investment bank, over a 24-hour period, during the early stages of the financial crisis". The title sure relates to MS industry ;D
Margin Call was a great movie. Very illuminating. I also liked Too Big To Fail, which was along similar lines.
Tnx for the suggestion, I'll check it out. I liked margin call, because it's a movie not a documentary, basically they tell the same story, but in a different and a way more interesting way. I guess I've watched too many documentaries lately and I sometimes feel like my head is going to explode, I just can't absorb that much info (knowledge sometimes as well) in such a short period of time and I prefer actors to a narrator and interviews. I can just sit back and relax, you can't always do that while watching a documentary. I also liked a few of the scenes, when actors were explaining why the world needs ppl like them and my fav was when the big boss flew in and the VP warned them not to BS him, sugarcoat anything, just tell it straight, because no one of them was smart enough. I absolutely loved that speech/warning actually :)
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Tnx for the suggestion, I'll check it out. I liked margin call, because it's a movie not a documentary, basically they tell the same story, but in a different and a way more interesting way. I guess I've watched too many documentaries lately and I sometimes feel like my head is going to explode, I just can't absorb that much info (knowledge sometimes as well) in such a short period of time and I prefer actors to a narrator and interviews. I can just sit back and relax, you can't always do that while watching a documentary. I also liked a few of the scenes, when actors were explaining why the world needs ppl like them and my fav was when the big boss flew in and the VP warned them not to BS him, sugarcoat anything, just tell it straight, because no one of them was smart enough. I absolutely loved that speech/warning actually :)
Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I never studied economics or business in college, so I appreciate the way writers of a "fictionalized" version of events will break the concepts down for the layperson. Plus you get a story to hold your interest. Documentaries are a bit dry, for the most part. Too Big To Fail is also a scripted account: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1742683/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1742683/)
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Huh, I guess I'm still a bit confused because what you just wrote seems a little bit different than the first post you made opening this thread. In that post you said "But we are talking about RPI, PRD, intoxicated with our "gentle" lives, angry if oil jumps 1% ..."
That statement along with the title of the thread I interpreted to imply that you perceive us (when I say us, I mean those of us from the United States posting in this forum specifically since you mentioned our silly discussions of RPI and PRD) as spoiled or "gentle." I didn't catch the part about your desire to see technology advancements in there. Oh well, I guess it's my mistake.
Oh wait...that last part of your last quote where you said "moral people should not build their own standards on other people's suffering!" Who exactly are you referring to there? I don't want there to be any more mixups. Could you please elaborate and let me know who you are referring to with that statement?
Thanks,
Mat
Hi Mat!
...intoxicated with our "gentle" lives, angry if oil jumps 1% ..
My intention was to put all of us (NOT only people from US), including myself it that category... Also that was a general statement for average man life in "NON-3rd world countries"...
...specifically since you mentioned our silly discussions of RPI and PRD) as spoiled or "gentle."
"Silly discussion" is ALSO My discussion...
I refer on all OUR problems in "more or less money" category... This can be silly if we compared it with suffering of those children there...
...you said "moral people should not build their own standards on other people's suffering!" Who exactly are you referring to there...
I am referring on all people who consider themselves moral and free and who can find justification for all that in my first post.
There is NO ethnic, national, racial, administrative or any other affiliation or restrictions...
It seems that my knowledge of English language is problem ... I apologize for that!
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If the economy colapses because of gas price or the oil runs out (which will happen eventually), then we'll all ride bicycles and the world will be a better place. Live in the countryside, grow our own crops, do some gardening, rural life is best! ;)
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If the economy colapses because of gas price or the oil runs out (which will happen eventually), then we'll all ride bicycles and the world will be a better place. Live in the countryside, grow our own crops, do some gardening, rural life is best! ;)
with a Nikon/Canon repair nearby
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Huh, I guess I'm still a bit confused because what you just wrote seems a little bit different than the first post you made opening this thread. In that post you said "But we are talking about RPI, PRD, intoxicated with our "gentle" lives, angry if oil jumps 1% ..."
That statement along with the title of the thread I interpreted to imply that you perceive us (when I say us, I mean those of us from the United States posting in this forum specifically since you mentioned our silly discussions of RPI and PRD) as spoiled or "gentle." I didn't catch the part about your desire to see technology advancements in there. Oh well, I guess it's my mistake.
Oh wait...that last part of your last quote where you said "moral people should not build their own standards on other people's suffering!" Who exactly are you referring to there? I don't want there to be any more mixups. Could you please elaborate and let me know who you are referring to with that statement?
Thanks,
Mat
Hi Mat!
...intoxicated with our "gentle" lives, angry if oil jumps 1% ..
My intention was to put all of us (NOT only people from US), including myself it that category... Also that was a general statement for average man life in "NON-3rd world countries"...
...specifically since you mentioned our silly discussions of RPI and PRD) as spoiled or "gentle."
"Silly discussion" is ALSO My discussion...
I refer on all OUR problems in "more or less money" category... This can be silly if we compared it with suffering of those children there...
...you said "moral people should not build their own standards on other people's suffering!" Who exactly are you referring to there...
I am referring on all people who consider themselves moral and free and who can find justification for all that in my first post.
There is NO ethnic, national, racial, administrative or any other affiliation or restrictions...
It seems that my knowledge of English language is problem ... I apologize for that!
I interpreted it exactly like that.
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If the economy colapses because of gas price or the oil runs out (which will happen eventually), then we'll all ride bicycles and the world will be a better place. Live in the countryside, grow our own crops, do some gardening, rural life is best! ;)
with a Nikon/Canon repair nearby
Or at least within 50-100 km. The now much healthier humans will be able to cover long distances using the greatest invention in locomotion ever.
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^^^ What's all this got to do with the price of oil? What about beer? Beer costs more than oil.
Beer, you're a piker. Think of a good single malt Scotch! Heck it must be $120 a liter! Even a good blended like Black Grouse costs €62 a Litre!
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To lighten up the mood, I love this clip, we finally laugh to the intentional absurdness in politics :) http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-6-2012/words-of-warcraft (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-6-2012/words-of-warcraft)
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^^^ What's all this got to do with the price of oil? What about beer? Beer costs more than oil.
Beer, you're a piker. Think of a good single malt Scotch! Heck it must be $120 a liter! Even a good blended like Black Grouse costs €62 a Litre!
Yeah you want to go for a liter MacAllens or Glenfiddich, set you back about 150 bucks
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Mental note, must invade Scotland, yum yum
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Please dont get us wrong! ofcourse we sympathise with you and its horrible, I agree, only sooner or later these discussions always leads up to the US and Great-Britain, being the bad guys, etc.
and its totally unfair, they have saved our @sses, plenty of times and will probabaly do so in future as well.
To be absolutely fair towards historic truth, USSR "saved" our asses from Nazi Germay. USA invaded Europe in June 1944 when the German Army was in full retreat across Poland, having effectively lost the war against the Red Army the previous year. The west front arguably just sped up the inevitable collapse of the German war machine.
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Although this is a bit of comedy about empire and war (and in case there's any doubt, he is taking the pee out of Britain as well as other countries), according to Eddie here, 25 million Russian soldiers and civilians lost their lives in WWII. If accurate, that's just phenomenal.
DressToKill - Eddie Izzard on World War 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVQLYo_M-kY#)
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Please dont get us wrong! ofcourse we sympathise with you and its horrible, I agree, only sooner or later these discussions always leads up to the US and Great-Britain, being the bad guys, etc.
and its totally unfair, they have saved our @sses, plenty of times and will probabaly do so in future as well.
To be absolutely fair towards historic truth, USSR "saved" our asses from Nazi Germay. USA invaded Europe in June 1944 when the German Army was in full retreat across Poland, having effectively lost the war against the Red Army the previous year. The west front arguably just sped up the inevitable collapse of the German war machine.
Well its a truth with a slight modification, ofcourse they participated and did it very well, just look at Stalingrad! however, Stalin, was unfortunately not much better then Mr. Hitler, on the contrary, late evidence proclaims him even worse.
Your right though, they did a lot during WW2.
best.
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Please dont get us wrong! ofcourse we sympathise with you and its horrible, I agree, only sooner or later these discussions always leads up to the US and Great-Britain, being the bad guys, etc.
and its totally unfair, they have saved our @sses, plenty of times and will probabaly do so in future as well.
To be absolutely fair towards historic truth, USSR "saved" our asses from Nazi Germay. USA invaded Europe in June 1944 when the German Army was in full retreat across Poland, having effectively lost the war against the Red Army the previous year. The west front arguably just sped up the inevitable collapse of the German war machine.
Well its a truth with a slight modification, ofcourse they participated and did it very well, just look at Stalingrad! however, Stalin, was unfortunately not much better then Mr. Hitler, on the contrary, late evidence proclaims him even worse.
Your right though, they did a lot during WW2.
best.
Some people have a very narrow interpretation of the truth, to serve their own purposes. This is a good example. The denial of the concentration camps and the millions of people murdered is another. But I'll stick to the first inaccurate attempt at the revision of history.
Until the attack on Pearl Harbor, ( Dec. 1941) the United States had maintained formal neutrality, while supplying Britain, the Soviet Union and China with war material through Lend-Lease. During the war over 16 million Americans served in the United States military, with 290,000 killed in action and 670,000 wounded. That doesn't look like someone who just joined in after the Germans were on the run, in 1944? >:(
That's the thanks people get for helping. Denial and hate? People in the UK would be speaking German now if it wasn't for the US, plain and simple.
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Well its a truth with a slight modification, ofcourse they participated and did it very well, just look at Stalingrad! however, Stalin, was unfortunately not much better then Mr. Hitler, on the contrary, late evidence proclaims him even worse.
Your right though, they did a lot during WW2.
best.
Stalin's attitude is irrelevant to the question: did USA save Europe from Nazi Germany? The answer is no. You could argue that Stalin would have done even worse in Europe, but there is no evidence that Stalin wanted to go beyond Germany and conquer Western Europe, there is actually evidence of the contrary in the form of Kremlin's plans for securing Eastern Europe after the fall of Germany. Stalin, USA and UK were allied at that time, till well beyond Yalta, and even if plans for a follow up war were being drafted by all parties, they were more precautions than anything.
But coming back to today, a long term rise in oil price is inevitable and it is a Good Thing. India, China, South America are seeing a huge influx of cars, for example, that drives oil demand up, which drives oil price up, given that oil production can not rise much further, but will likely slowly fall. More expansive oil means more investment in better cars that consume less gas (something that has been hindered by oil companies for decades), more research and investment in renewable energy, higher tech industries. This will produce more jobs, especially high-tech, which will also require better education, driving school standards higher. Even if I now live in USA, I welcome the rise in oil price, by looking beyond my immediate needs.
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Some people have a very narrow interpretation of the truth, to serve their own purposes. This is a good example. The denial of the concentration camps and the millions of people murdered is another. But I'll stick to the first inaccurate attempt at the revision of history.
Until the attack on Pearl Harbor, ( Dec. 1941) the United States had maintained formal neutrality, while supplying Britain, the Soviet Union and China with war material through Lend-Lease. During the war over 16 million Americans served in the United States military, with 290,000 killed in action and 670,000 wounded. That doesn't look like someone who just joined in after the Germans were on the run, in 1944? >:(
That's the thanks people get for helping. Denial and hate? People in the UK would be speaking German now if it wasn't for the US, plain and simple.
USSR lost 20 million people in WW2 and fought a bitter war in their territory for three years, defeated and drove back the German Army, twice at Moscow with Operation Blue at the end of '41 and at Stalingrad at the beginning of '43. When USA invaded Europe, the German Army was retreating in Poland, defeated. This is not interpretation, this is a fact. And can not really be revisioned to serve an ideological purpose. English people speaking German without USA doesn't make any historical sense: Hitler was fixated with invading USSR and there was no way he could invade Britain, with or without USA. Pearl Harbor is a whole different story that is not quite the same as what is promulgated by the propaganda. But this topic would lead us even more distant and I wouldn't pursuit it. As a last interesting point, Britain is still paying back the Lend-Lease today. I wouldn't even need to go in details about what Plan Marshal represented for USA economy in the 50's and 60's. WW2 was a very good business for USA.
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Some people have a very narrow interpretation of the truth, to serve their own purposes. This is a good example. The denial of the concentration camps and the millions of people murdered is another. But I'll stick to the first inaccurate attempt at the revision of history.
Until the attack on Pearl Harbor, ( Dec. 1941) the United States had maintained formal neutrality, while supplying Britain, the Soviet Union and China with war material through Lend-Lease. During the war over 16 million Americans served in the United States military, with 290,000 killed in action and 670,000 wounded. That doesn't look like someone who just joined in after the Germans were on the run, in 1944? >:(
That's the thanks people get for helping. Denial and hate? People in the UK would be speaking German now if it wasn't for the US, plain and simple.
USSR lost 20 million people in WW2 and fought a bitter war in their territory for three years, defeated and drove back the German Army, twice at Moscow with Operation Blue at the end of '41 and at Stalingrad at the beginning of '43. When USA invaded Europe, the German Army was retreating in Poland, defeated. This is not interpretation, this is a fact. And can not really be revisioned to serve an ideological purpose. English people speaking German without USA doesn't make any historical sense: Hitler was fixated with invading USSR and there was no way he could invade Britain, with or without USA. Pearl Harbor is a whole different story that is not quite the same as what is promulgated by the propaganda. But this topic would lead us even more distant and I wouldn't pursuit it. As a last interesting point, Britain is still paying back the Lend-Lease today. I wouldn't even need to go in details about what Plan Marshal represented for USA economy in the 50's and 60's. WW2 was a very good business for USA.
So what was the USA doing from Dec. 1941 until D-Day, sitting on their hands waiting? Seems you are l;leaving out something?
No denying that the USSR and numerous other countries were heavily involved, that wasn't the original claim. Nor did I say anything of the sort.
What started this was, The US didn't join until 1944 when the German's were already on the run. Which is a flat out, lie! There's your revisionist history.
Yeah we need more expensive fuel so we can have electric cars that explode in the garage, will kill people with a shock, use batteries that are full of toxic waste and use more energy because it takes coal plants to make the electricity to "fuel" them. Seems the same people who want to get away from oil (not a bad thing by the way) are also against nuclear energy which is cheap and clean. Instead we get coal fired plants, spewing acid, CO2, dirt and dust into the atmosphere. Nice plan??? Trade one form of pollution for another. Stupid politics.
Oh wait, the evil oil companies have a 100 MPG carburetor, but they are hiding it from consumers. Since the 1950s ::) Sure and your car can run on water. People believe all kinds of lies and perpetuate them. Things like the US didn't join WW II until 1944!
I think propane or natural gas vehicles would make the most sense, considering science and resources. Renewable resources are a nice dream, but not just around the corner and not going to magically appear because something else goes away. Engineers have been trying for about 50 years to find cheaper energy, maybe longer, if it's as easy as turn off the oil faucet and we'll have something else, then why not now?
Bio fuel would be even better. Hasn't been proved economical at this point. Maybe the high price will help that get back into the scheme. Unfortunately OPEC is smarter than a bunch of people on forums, and they will always drop the price to a level to make sure that their oil is cheaper than Bio_Fuel! Lets not insult their intelligence or marketing plan. They want to sell oil, until it's all gone.
Anything that replaces oil would be good for the planet and everyone, including the company that developed it and owns the rights. They would be wealthy beyond imagination or all the oil companies and OPEC. So why don't we have it NOW?
It doesn't exist except in science fiction, hypothetical science dreams and maybe the future. Get a grasp on some reality.
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If lobbies didn't shut Tesla down, we'd already have free transportation for a century, no need for oil, coal, gas etc. There's tidal, geothermal, that is clean and renewable and there's more than plenty to power the whole planet without using a drop of oil, gas etc
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So what was the USA doing from Dec. 1941 until D-Day, sitting on their hands waiting? Seems you are l;leaving out something?
No denying that the USSR and numerous other countries were heavily involved, that wasn't the original claim. Nor did I say anything of the sort.
What started this was, The US didn't join until 1944 when the German's were already on the run. Which is a flat out, lie! There's your revisionist history.
Sorry, but that's historic fact, not a lie. USA entered the war in Europe on June 6, 1944. It's undeniable. Technically, though, the invasion of Europe started in the south of Italy in '43, but it was pretty much stopped cold there at the Gustav Line. For everything else, I urge you to remain civil and accept facts.
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So what was the USA doing from Dec. 1941 until D-Day, sitting on their hands waiting? Seems you are l;leaving out something?
No denying that the USSR and numerous other countries were heavily involved, that wasn't the original claim. Nor did I say anything of the sort.
What started this was, The US didn't join until 1944 when the German's were already on the run. Which is a flat out, lie! There's your revisionist history.
Sorry, but that's historic fact, not a lie. USA entered the war in Europe on June 6, 1944. It's undeniable. Technically, though, the invasion of Europe started in the south of Italy in '43, but it was pretty much stopped cold there at the Gustav Line. For everything else, I urge you to remain civil and accept facts.
I hope I was civil, if not I apologize.
Have a good day.
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Sorry, but that's historic fact, not a lie. USA entered the war in Europe on June 6, 1944. It's undeniable. Technically, though, the invasion of Europe started in the south of Italy in '43, but it was pretty much stopped cold there at the Gustav Line. For everything else, I urge you to remain civil and accept facts.
We may not have have boots on the ground in Europe until D-Day but our Air Force was certainly involved as early as July 1942.
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I hope I was civil, if not I apologize.
Have a good day.
Thank you, it's appreciated. Even if I enjoy a passionate discussion. WW2 is an incredibly interesting and complex topic, and I would discuss about it for hours. I strongly believe that no one country was at fault or was the savior, but it was a bitter struggle for economic dominance at the expenses of the soldiers and people of all countries who suffered enormously from it. USA won this economic struggle.
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Well its a truth with a slight modification, ofcourse they participated and did it very well, just look at Stalingrad! however, Stalin, was unfortunately not much better then Mr. Hitler, on the contrary, late evidence proclaims him even worse.
Your right though, they did a lot during WW2.
best.
Stalin's attitude is irrelevant to the question: did USA save Europe from Nazi Germany? The answer is no. You could argue that Stalin would have done even worse in Europe, but there is no evidence that Stalin wanted to go beyond Germany and conquer Western Europe, there is actually evidence of the contrary in the form of Kremlin's plans for securing Eastern Europe after the fall of Germany. Stalin, USA and UK were allied at that time, till well beyond Yalta, and even if plans for a follow up war were being drafted by all parties, they were more precautions than anything.
But coming back to today, a long term rise in oil price is inevitable and it is a Good Thing. India, China, South America are seeing a huge influx of cars, for example, that drives oil demand up, which drives oil price up, given that oil production can not rise much further, but will likely slowly fall. More expansive oil means more investment in better cars that consume less gas (something that has been hindered by oil companies for decades), more research and investment in renewable energy, higher tech industries. This will produce more jobs, especially high-tech, which will also require better education, driving school standards higher. Even if I now live in USA, I welcome the rise in oil price, by looking beyond my immediate needs.
I dont agree with you on this one. No matter what without the US. Europe was broken, the Russian soldiers and people were starving alive, there was nothing left, the US, came in with fresh troops, modern technology. There is no doubt, without the US intervention, todays world would have been very differant.
Hitler and his entorage, in fact helped us, the Vermacht, fieldmarshals like Romel, Kesselring, von Paulus, etc, was turning against them and bad, lousy decissions were made, they gave priority to the extermination, instead of pursuing the war.
Later, the entire invasion, plans, blueprints, etc, eas masterminded by the chief in command, Eisenhower and Lord Mountbatten.
No, we could argu this for a thousand years but the US, did save our bacon. :)
best.
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If lobbies didn't shut Tesla down, we'd already have free transportation for a century, no need for oil, coal, gas etc. There's tidal, geothermal, that is clean and renewable and there's more than plenty to power the whole planet without using a drop of oil, gas etc
Yep!
He was Croatian Serb, from war part of Croatia during 90-ies!
His motto was: "I am proud with my Serbian native, and my Croatian homeland ..."
Unfortunately, his charisma has not helped against awakening those defeated "quislings" ideologies from WW2 that have awakened in ex YU society, supported by some foreign lobbies...
P.S.
Marshal Tito had conquered nazzzis and quislings, only a small part was effort of Americans and Russians.... :) ;) ;) :P
He said historic "NO" to Stalin, and sold "space program" to Americans (they were on Moon several years later).. :o :P ;)
He also had to promise that "Cockta" will never be sold out of Yugoslavia, that couldn't jeopardize Coca Cola!
Ha! What you will say now? :o :P :P ;)
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I dont agree with you on this one. No matter what without the US. Europe was broken, the Russian soldiers and people were starving alive, there was nothing left, the US, came in with fresh troops, modern technology. There is no doubt, without the US intervention, todays world would have been very differant.
This is not factual. The Red Army was extremely powerful, in fact in '44, i'll repeat it again, the Wehrmacht was in full retreat across Poland, the Luftwaffe essentially gone and the only strategic objective was to slow down the Red Army to allow the german population still in Poland to evacuate safely to Germany. The main reasons why Americans had air superiority on the Western front was that the Luftwaffe had been wiped out by the Red Army. According to all military historians, at that point (mid '44) there was no way Germany could have asked for an armistice. The war was lost. Imagine only that the Red Army sieged Berlin with more men and artillery pieces than Germany used in the whole Operation Barbarossa!
Without the US intervention the world would have been very different, as you say, simply for the fact that USA wouldn't have such a huge market like Europe for their industry to flourish. But you can not claim that without US intervention in '44 Germany would have won the war. They wouldn't have even been able to request a conditional surrender. War was essentially lost at Stalingrad.
Here's an excellent book that explains what I'm arguing much better than I possibly could:
http://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-Retreats-Fighting-Modern-Studies/dp/0700618260 (http://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-Retreats-Fighting-Modern-Studies/dp/0700618260)
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I dont agree with you on this one. No matter what without the US. Europe was broken, the Russian soldiers and people were starving alive, there was nothing left, the US, came in with fresh troops, modern technology. There is no doubt, without the US intervention, todays world would have been very differant.
This is not factual. The Red Army was extremely powerful, in fact in '44, i'll repeat it again, the Wehrmacht was in full retreat across Poland, the Luftwaffe essentially gone and the only strategic objective was to slow down the Red Army to allow the german population still in Poland to evacuate safely to Germany. The main reasons why Americans had air superiority on the Western front was that the Luftwaffe had been wiped out by the Red Army. According to all military historians, at that point (mid '44) there was no way Germany could have asked for an armistice. The war was lost. Imagine only that the Red Army sieged Berlin with more men and artillery pieces than Germany used in the whole Operation Barbarossa!
Without the US intervention the world would have been very different, as you say, simply for the fact that USA wouldn't have such a huge market like Europe for their industry to flourish. But you can not claim that without US intervention in '44 Germany would have won the war. They wouldn't have even been able to request a conditional surrender. War was essentially lost at Stalingrad.
Here's an excellent book that explains what I'm arguing much better than I possibly could:
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-Retreats-Fighting-Modern-Studies/dp/0700618260[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-Retreats-Fighting-Modern-Studies/dp/0700618260[/url])
Fran, what youre in actual fact is saying, thanks to the red army, etc, we could have won this war without the US, right? and then what, Hitler replaced by Stalin! not a very promissing prospect, is it, to replace one evil with another.
Dont forget , we are talking wars/peace on a global scale, not just Nazi Germany, wars with Japan, China, the entire world.
Towards 1944, Europe and Russia, was more or less bancrupt, to fight and win wars calls for three things, Like Napoleon said, to win a war, takes, money, money and more money. Europe and Russia, did not have any money but the US, did.
BTW. I did see a two hour of film footage from Staligrad and my God, it must have been the ultimate nightmare for both sides, it really makes todays wars look like a kindergarden.
Your book looks very interesting, Im definetely going to read it.
cheers and best.
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Fran, what youre in actual fact is saying, thanks to the red army, etc, we could have won this war without the US, right? and then what, Hitler replaced by Stalin! not a very promissing prospect, is it, to replace one evil with another.
Kind of. I'm arguing that Germany lost every hope of not losing the war at Stalingrad, a yeah and a half before the D-Day. And there's also a good case for stating that Germany lost the war the day it started Operation Barbarossa: there was no way it could have won a war of attrition vs the higher industrial production of the USSR and there was no strategic objective except for a generic "Conquer Moscow and hold the line there". There's an interesting document reporting Hitler saying that if he knew about the tank production capability of the USSR, he would have never launched the attack!
BTW. I did see a two hour of film footage from Staligrad and my God, it must have been the ultimate nightmare for both sides, it really makes todays wars look like a kindergarden..
Stalingrad is gripping to say the least. I remember I spent a full year reading and watching everything I could about it. I want to visit it.
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Fran, what youre in actual fact is saying, thanks to the red army, etc, we could have won this war without the US, right? and then what, Hitler replaced by Stalin! not a very promissing prospect, is it, to replace one evil with another.
Kind of. I'm arguing that Germany lost every hope of not losing the war at Stalingrad, a yeah and a half before the D-Day. And there's also a good case for stating that Germany lost the war the day it started Operation Barbarossa: there was no way it could have won a war of attrition vs the higher industrial production of the USSR and there was no strategic objective except for a generic "Conquer Moscow and hold the line there". There's an interesting document reporting Hitler saying that if he knew about the tank production capability of the USSR, he would have never launched the attack!
BTW. I did see a two hour of film footage from Staligrad and my God, it must have been the ultimate nightmare for both sides, it really makes todays wars look like a kindergarden..
Stalingrad is gripping to say the least. I remember I spent a full year reading and watching everything I could about it. I want to visit it.
Did you by any chance see that movie, " the enemy within" or something like that, it was about two snipers, one German and one Russian, I think that was more or less based on a true account. although probably dramatized, there was a lot of sniper actions going on.
Yes, I would like to visit as well. The entire WW2. is fascinating, also there is this BBC, series, the world at war, in color, new footage that has never been seen before and apparantly theres lots of film footage from inside Stalingrad.
I think the series is staring again during this summer.
Really, the German high command must have been nuts, Tempratures were around minus 30 and they refused to sent their soldiers proper winter clothing, just the cold alone, killed them off in thousands.
best.
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Did you by any chance see that movie, " the enemy within" or something like that, it was about two snipers, one German and one Russian, I think that was more or less based on a true account. although probably dramatized, there was a lot of sniper actions going on.
Enemy At The Gates with Jude Law, the first half an hour is brilliant. The rest of the movie is meh :S
It was the story of Zaitzev, there's still his sniper rifle in a museum in Volgograd.
Yes, I would like to visit as well. The entire WW2. is fascinating, also there is this BBC, series, the world at war, in color, new footage that has never been seen before and apparantly theres lots of film footage from inside Stalingrad.
I think the series is staring again during this summer.
I watched the old one last summer, and I'm waiting for the new one in color :)
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Did you by any chance see that movie, " the enemy within" or something like that, it was about two snipers, one German and one Russian, I think that was more or less based on a true account. although probably dramatized, there was a lot of sniper actions going on.
Enemy At The Gates with Jude Law, the first half an hour is brilliant. The rest of the movie is meh :S
It was the story of Zaitzev, there's still his sniper rifle in a museum in Volgograd.
Yes, I would like to visit as well. The entire WW2. is fascinating, also there is this BBC, series, the world at war, in color, new footage that has never been seen before and apparantly theres lots of film footage from inside Stalingrad.
I think the series is staring again during this summer.
I watched the old one last summer, and I'm waiting for the new one in color :)
yes thats right, that was the name, as you say, first hour, brillant then it turned into Hollywood, this new documentary clearly show that Marshall gregory Zukov, was one of the most brillant and cunning front figures during the entire liberation of the Red Army. In talking about these Generals, all thats mentioned really are the likes of Romel, Montgomery, McArthur and Eisenhower but we are forgetting Zukov, one of the most brillant strategists of all time.
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Or Britain. Yes you can say, bad food even worse weather, but the ppl are great, I love their sense of humour, I love football which they invented etc
As an Italian and vegetarian, I have to disagree with your "bad food" part. Jacket Potatoes with cheddar cheese and beans - with a pint of bitter - are absolutely lovely. And so is Indian or Thai influenced cuisine. And that "V" label on vegetarian food is a great sign of civilisation, very hard to find in Italy. And I love rainy days, blue skies are boring (except for microstock).
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Or Britain. Yes you can say, bad food even worse weather, but the ppl are great, I love their sense of humour, I love football which they invented etc
As an Italian and vegetarian, I have to disagree with your "bad food" part. Jacket Potatoes with cheddar cheese and beans - with a pint of bitter - are absolutely lovely. And so is Indian or Thai influenced cuisine. And that "V" label on vegetarian food is a great sign of civilisation, very hard to find in Italy. And I love rainy days, blue skies are boring (except for microstock).
Lived in Italy for 3 years, Rome and Florence, fantastic country! love everything about it, people, food, cars, countryside, cities, the lot.
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Or Britain. Yes you can say, bad food even worse weather, but the ppl are great, I love their sense of humour, I love football which they invented etc
As an Italian and vegetarian, I have to disagree with your "bad food" part. Jacket Potatoes with cheddar cheese and beans - with a pint of bitter - are absolutely lovely. And so is Indian or Thai influenced cuisine. And that "V" label on vegetarian food is a great sign of civilisation, very hard to find in Italy. And I love rainy days, blue skies are boring (except for microstock).
You mean the label? There's plenty of Italian vegetarian food, pasta (genovese, alla Norma, sauces like noci e ricotta etc), lasagnas, cannelloni, pizze, bruschette, you name it, so much variety. For those that also eat fish and eggs, the variety is endless, I absolutely love pasta con le sarde (but you can only get it in Sicily).
I guess they have a few good dishes, I mean they have world renowned chefs like Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsey, they must have changed some things in their cuisine for sure. But when I was there in the late nineties, just for a couple of days on my way to NY, things were still mostly unchanged. When I think of typical British dishes, like British breakfast (how did they manage to come up with such an awful combination, beans, eggs and sausages. Really?!?:), which is also too "heavy" for my taste to eat for the first meal of the day, right after I wake up and fish and chips, disgusting, fat, super unhealthy (fish usually are healthy). You can grill some sardines for less money and if you can grill, they'll be awesome and even cheaper.
But it looks like it suits you perfectly. I prefer Mediterranean for food and weather. And the way of life of course :) (easygoing etc)
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Or Britain. Yes you can say, bad food even worse weather, but the ppl are great, I love their sense of humour, I love football which they invented etc
As an Italian and vegetarian, I have to disagree with your "bad food" part. Jacket Potatoes with cheddar cheese and beans - with a pint of bitter - are absolutely lovely. And so is Indian or Thai influenced cuisine. And that "V" label on vegetarian food is a great sign of civilisation, very hard to find in Italy. And I love rainy days, blue skies are boring (except for microstock).
Lived in Italy for 3 years, Rome and Florence, fantastic country! love everything about it, people, food, cars, countryside, cities, the lot.
I knew you're a man of great taste ;) . Have you been down south as well? I know they call everything south of Rome, Africa and don't think much of them, but for me south is the best part of Italy.
I wanted to ask you for a few days now, why do you live in Sweden? Isn't the cold unbearable, some warmth would do a man of your age some good :P . Or do you use Glenfiddich for that purpose as well ? :) Besides, as you colorfully described them, Swedish women are just old boilers, overrated ;D . Italian women OTOH, are really hot
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You mean the label? There's plenty of Italian vegetarian food, pasta (genovese, alla Norma, sauces like noci e ricotta etc), lasagnas, cannelloni, pizze, bruschette, you name it, so much variety.
I mean that little "v" near vegetarian dished on restaurant menus, found virtually everywhere in Britain. Being Italian, I have no problems finding good vegetarian food in Italy, but I often have to ask if a dish is suitable for vegetarians or not. I guess it's not easy for foreigners, especially when no one is speaking English (it happens in small restaurants).
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This whole thread is a little microcosm of the european continent for the last thousand years. And for the next thousand years. Selective memories, nationalism, and always blaming someone else. Borg, i really hope you get your wish for $100 per liter oil. Then you can figure out how the UK and America are behind it, and keep this thread true to it's original intent. As for America staying out of other countries and just concerning itself with it's own borders, I hope you get that wish too. The way it's looking from here in the US, I think you will get that wish as well. You may not be speaking Russian today thanks to the 50 years of efforts by the US and western Europe , but I think you better start brushing up on it, or maybe learning Mandarin. I, for one, have no interest in sending my kids into any war to benefit Europe, east or west. I also have always been dead set against our involvement in the middle east. Let them all kill each other, it's all they really know how to do anyway. All we hear is how we did nothing in WW2. Okay, message received. Have fun.
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All of these concerns seem small compared to what surely is on the way:
Paul Gilding: The Earth is full (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZT6YpCsapg#ws)
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The link you provided is broken
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The link you provided is broken
Thanks, fixed it
"The Earth is Full" . . . . . check it out
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Please don't let this turn into a hating thread, especially in a nationalistic way. I'm almost sorry I wrote my previous post, since I know, most ppl won't understand it, they won't understand the true msg, but just tear some things out of context and the debate will needlesly heat up. The point of my post was, it's the lobbies behind all those atrocities that should be blamed.
I think this is a very, very astute point. Here in the US, Pres. Dwight Eisenhower, a war hero himself, warned in 1961 of the dangers of the "Military Industrial Complex".
In the past, it seems that wars were fought because of immediate threats. Countries invading other countries, and/or genocides being committed. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan seem to be unrelated to any direct or immediate threat. Instead, it appears that they were, and continue to be, waged for the profit of some well placed business interests.
Whether or not that's true, I don't know, but that is how it seems to me. And Wut is absolutely right that large numbers of the population in the aggressor countries do not support the wars. I would certainly have supported our intervention in WW2 if I had been alive then, but I do not support wars waged to put money in the pockets of Haliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater, or the various oil companies. And I vote. But sometimes my votes are in the minority.
But at this moment of time there is plenty of oil for the world, in fact an over production of oil. Wall Street speculation on oil reserves count for 30-40% of world oil prices according to OPEC. There are cargo ships parked in the Gulf of Mexico filled with oil just waiting for the price to go up so it can be sold at increased profit. Three months ago I started hearing the first saber rattling for the next war, this time with Iran . . . . . . why, war with Iran or even threat of war will of course raise the price of oil so those profits can be realized. That was one of the reasons for the Iraqi war (when Bush came into office the price of oil was $35/bbl, soon it was at $150/bbl which made his Texas Oil backers very happy)
By the way, the Commerce Dept. announced couple of weeks ago that America's number one manufactured export now is . . . . . . . are you ready, refined oil products like gasoline. So the next time you hear that gas prices are going up because of scarcity and refining capacity you can have a good laugh.
from The Christian Science Monitor:
As gas prices rise, should US oil industry stop exporting?
US gas prices are soaring and domestic demand is falling. The oil industry says it needs to export to stay in business and avoid layoffs. Others claim that keeps supply low and gas prices high.
At the same time that the price of gasoline is rising, the US oil industry is increasing its exports of gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel.
Yes, you read that correctly.
Compared to a year ago, exports of gasoline have tripled – at a time when the price of gasoline is 42 cents a gallon more expensive at the pump. On Thursday, for example, the price of crude oil remained elevated at $107 a barrel because of fears over the Iranian nuclear situation, and the price of gasoline rose 3 cents a gallon compared to Wednesday, according to AAA.
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By the way, the Commerce Dept. announced couple of weeks ago that America's number one manufactured export now is . . . . . . . are you ready, refined oil products like gasoline. So the next time you hear that gas prices are going up because of scarcity and refining capacity you can have a good laugh.
Yes, scarcity is caused by exporting refined oil products. To me, it looks very simple. A simple way to bump up the prices.
Watch the 2nd movie, I think he explains it brilliantly http://www.thevenusproject.com/ (http://www.thevenusproject.com/) . I said a few times over here, that wherever there's money involved, there's corruption, greed (that's why we're seeing so many cuts in our royalties). But usually I was labeled as a damnn communist etc
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By the way, the Commerce Dept. announced couple of weeks ago that America's number one manufactured export now is . . . . . . . are you ready, refined oil products like gasoline. So the next time you hear that gas prices are going up because of scarcity and refining capacity you can have a good laugh.
Yes, scarcity is caused by exporting refined oil products. To me, it looks very simple. A simple way to bump up the prices.
Watch the 2nd movie, I think he explains it brilliantly [url]http://www.thevenusproject.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.thevenusproject.com/[/url]) . I said a few times over here, that wherever there's money involved, there's corruption, greed (that's why we're seeing so many cuts in our royalties). But usually I was labeled as a damnn communist etc
no, just a king . . . . . . .
"in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" :D
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Enemy At The Gates with Jude Law, the first half an hour is brilliant. The rest of the movie is meh :S
It was the story of Zaitzev, there's still his sniper rifle in a museum in Volgograd.
Loved that movie. Absolutely riveting IMO. Really helped me understand the meaning of the term "cannon fodder" like never before.
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from The Christian Science Monitor:
As gas prices rise, should US oil industry stop exporting?
US gas prices are soaring and domestic demand is falling. The oil industry says it needs to export to stay in business and avoid layoffs. Others claim that keeps supply low and gas prices high.
At the same time that the price of gasoline is rising, the US oil industry is increasing its exports of gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel.
Yes, you read that correctly.
Compared to a year ago, exports of gasoline have tripled – at a time when the price of gasoline is 42 cents a gallon more expensive at the pump. On Thursday, for example, the price of crude oil remained elevated at $107 a barrel because of fears over the Iranian nuclear situation, and the price of gasoline rose 3 cents a gallon compared to Wednesday, according to AAA.
Thanks for posting that Etien. I had absolutely no idea US oil companies were increasing EXPORTS of gasoline. I watch the news every day and not a peep about it.
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from The Christian Science Monitor:
As gas prices rise, should US oil industry stop exporting?
US gas prices are soaring and domestic demand is falling. The oil industry says it needs to export to stay in business and avoid layoffs. Others claim that keeps supply low and gas prices high.
At the same time that the price of gasoline is rising, the US oil industry is increasing its exports of gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel.
Yes, you read that correctly.
Compared to a year ago, exports of gasoline have tripled – at a time when the price of gasoline is 42 cents a gallon more expensive at the pump. On Thursday, for example, the price of crude oil remained elevated at $107 a barrel because of fears over the Iranian nuclear situation, and the price of gasoline rose 3 cents a gallon compared to Wednesday, according to AAA.
Thanks for posting that Etien. I had absolutely no idea US oil companies were increasing EXPORTS of gasoline. I watch the news every day and not a peep about it.
It seems to me one of the republican presidential hopefuls mentioned it in one of the debates. I'm thinking it was either Newt Gingrich or Ron Paul.
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from The Christian Science Monitor:
As gas prices rise, should US oil industry stop exporting?
US gas prices are soaring and domestic demand is falling. The oil industry says it needs to export to stay in business and avoid layoffs. Others claim that keeps supply low and gas prices high.
At the same time that the price of gasoline is rising, the US oil industry is increasing its exports of gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel.
Yes, you read that correctly.
Compared to a year ago, exports of gasoline have tripled – at a time when the price of gasoline is 42 cents a gallon more expensive at the pump. On Thursday, for example, the price of crude oil remained elevated at $107 a barrel because of fears over the Iranian nuclear situation, and the price of gasoline rose 3 cents a gallon compared to Wednesday, according to AAA.
Thanks for posting that Etien. I had absolutely no idea US oil companies were increasing EXPORTS of gasoline. I watch the news every day and not a peep about it.
Much of the exported oil is from Canada. The US does a great deal of refining for Canadian and Mexican oil. At the same time, demand in the US is below the refining capacity, so the oil has to go somewhere. The price of gas does not come from supply and demand of refined products- it comes from the raw material- crude oil. Chevron just shut down a refinery in NJ because it was primarily refining Libyan crude, which has gone much higher than the US sourced WTI. There is very limited space to store refined oil products, so when the demand is below output, it goes where the demand is increasing- China.
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Anyone interested in Stalingrad should read Stalingrad by Anthony Beevor. Really gripping and approachable intro to the subject.
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There were fuel protests in the UK when oil was around $30 a barrel and petrol was 80 pence a litre. Now it's close to Ł1.40 a litre.
As less people use their cars, the economy is going to suffer. We also have quantitative easing, it used to be called currency devaluation. So the cost of everything is increasing because of transportation prices and currency devaluation.
It will be interesting to see how far fuel prices can rise before protests start again. Most of our petrol price is tax. The government can't afford to lower the tax because there's a huge budget deficit and debt.
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One liter of gasoline cost in Croatia today 10.77kn...
1$=5.74kn
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I don't drive, so I expect I'll be wrong here... :D
... but aren't we supposed to be moving toward electric cars?
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I don't drive, so I expect I'll be wrong here... :D
... but aren't we supposed to be moving toward electric cars?
Yeah!
Electric cars will just remain" the future", whole the time...
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Oh I see. What a shame...
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There's lots of alternatives to fossil fuel but none generate as much tax for governments or as much profits for the oil companies. They have done all they can to stop investment in cheap alternatives. Then they tell us that fossil fuels damage the environment and we need to be more green. The hypocrisy is sickening.
Electric cars aren't the best option but I suppose the price of electricity will shoot up when we all have them.
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There's lots of alternatives to fossil fuel but none generate as much tax for governments or as much profits for the oil companies. They have done all they can to stop investment in cheap alternatives. Then they tell us that fossil fuels damage the environment and we need to be more green. The hypocrisy is sickening.
Electric cars aren't the best option but I suppose the price of electricity will shoot up when we all have them.
True!
They need our money much more than they can collect through taxes ..
So transport is essential for all of us, and it will always be a good field for extra profit to them...
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Or Britain. Yes you can say, bad food even worse weather, but the ppl are great, I love their sense of humour, I love football which they invented etc
As an Italian and vegetarian, I have to disagree with your "bad food" part. Jacket Potatoes with cheddar cheese and beans - with a pint of bitter - are absolutely lovely. And so is Indian or Thai influenced cuisine. And that "V" label on vegetarian food is a great sign of civilisation, very hard to find in Italy. And I love rainy days, blue skies are boring (except for microstock).
Lived in Italy for 3 years, Rome and Florence, fantastic country! love everything about it, people, food, cars, countryside, cities, the lot.
I knew you're a man of great taste ;) . Have you been down south as well? I know they call everything south of Rome, Africa and don't think much of them, but for me south is the best part of Italy.
I wanted to ask you for a few days now, why do you live in Sweden? Isn't the cold unbearable, some warmth would do a man of your age some good :P . Or do you use Glenfiddich for that purpose as well ? :) Besides, as you colorfully described them, Swedish women are just old boilers, overrated ;D . Italian women OTOH, are really hot
Yes ofcourse, been down the south as well, love it! I was actually born in Sweden, my ftaher Swedish, my mother English, dual nationallity. travelled around for some 25 years and then finally married a Swedish gal, 17 years back and settled in sweden. I inherited quite a large horse-farm here, so it was a natural thing to do, really.
Youre right about the cold, winter is bloody terrible but the Scandinavian springs and summers are beautyful. :)
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The future will talk about this time as the time of the most greedy generation of people in history.
The generation of people that got everything from their parents after WWII and stole everything from their children and grandchildren in the form of debt and resource depletion. The first generation of history that said to their grandchildren they will live worse than their parents, this never happened before in whole history.
The worst and most greediest generation in all human history. They had the luck to live a relatively peaceful period of time and enjoyed the growth, and now they don't want the next generation to have anything. They got it all and nothing will be left for the future.
I believe this generation is full of fear for their retirement and they are going to do everything to keep it at the highest level at all costs, even steal their grandchildren and leave them with no future. They fear of losing wealth but they don't realize they are losing the respect of their children on the way.
That's just my opinion.
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The future will talk about this time as the time of the most greedy generation of people in history.
The generation of people that got everything from their parents after WWII and stole everything from their children and grandchildren in the form of debt and resource depletion. The first generation of history that said to their grandchildren they will live worse than their parents, this never happened before in whole history.
The worst and most greediest generation in all human history. They had the luck to live a relatively peaceful period of time and enjoyed the growth, and now they don't want the next generation to have anything. They got it all and nothing will be left for the future.
I believe this generation is full of fear for their retirement and they are going to do everything to keep it at the highest level at all costs, even steal their grandchildren and leave them with no future. They fear of losing wealth but they don't realize they are losing the respect of their children on the way.
That's just my opinion.
Excellent explanation!
Every day we want more, but Earth has less and less...
Also, every day is more of us on this Planet, at the expense of others and other living creatures...
People feel (every day more and more) that they deserve a great standard ...
Everyone are "important", as evidence of the new spoiled generation...
The proof is what people do in the TV commercials, no one working in the industry, all working office jobs ... It's just a reflection of the desires and parental educational of new generations ...
But where is technology for that way of life... ?
This is source of crisis...
NEXT level of spoiled generation is GLOBAL war...
The proof is in the insensitivity or callousness, we have seen that on this topic!
BE AWARE!
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How about a new kind of war? This video is worth 30 minutes of your day :)
[youtube][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc[/url][/youtube]
Something smelled fishy when I watched that video, I didn't fall for it, share it on fb etc and here's an interesting interview breaking it down for you (making even the blind see). It's much more realistic or believable if you prefer that term, I'd say ;)
Kony? What about America's war criminals? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_TCh1OvFRc#)
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I wouldn't waste my time watching anything on RT anymore than I'd bother with Fox news.
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I wouldn't waste my time watching anything on RT anymore than I'd bother with Fox news.
Don't fool yourself, the same ppl control all media in the USA (and it's probably the same in the rest of the world, it's just that I've watched a documentary covering only USA, putting all the names out, creating a pattern etc). They just make you think you have a choice ;) (eg FOX for tea party activists, RT for libs? etc)
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There are other stations, Al Jazeera for example is one of the best, BBC can be okay at times. Of course all have massive agendas but you may as well go with the best of a bad bunch. RT is one of the worst news providers in the world, everything from their political to scientific news is a bad joke.
But then again if you are the sort to just watch the mainstream US news it at least provides a balance by being just as bad in the opposite direction!
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There are other stations, Al Jazeera for example is one of the best, BBC can be okay at times. Of course all have massive agendas but you may as well go with the best of a bad bunch. RT is one of the worst news providers in the world, everything from their political to scientific news is a bad joke.
But then again if you are the sort to just watch the mainstream US news it at least provides a balance by being just as bad in the opposite direction!
I don't watch any US media, I'm from Europe. I watch the news from time to time (that means 30 min in the evening), read newspaper and watch documentaries from time to time. I did however find this interview a lot more realistic and believable, than Kony anti-propaganda. Ppl that use their brain, know a little something about world politics and what's generally happening in the world and are not completely naive, just won't fall for it. Yes, any effort to save those children is great, just spare us with the BS, take their oil (or is there something else, there is something for sure), like they always do. It's the election year, they're really putting effort into it :). What I wanted to say, that if they, in the process of doing business as usual, save those children in the process, then at least something good comes out of it (as I said, I'd just prefer if they spared us the BS)
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I did actually listen the interview in the end. Could I recommend people read this for some balance, rather than listening to some nut job, conspiracy theorist rapper that seems very ill informed about world politics.:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/invisible-childrens-stop-kony-campaign/2012/03/07/gIQA7B31wR_blog.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/invisible-childrens-stop-kony-campaign/2012/03/07/gIQA7B31wR_blog.html)
and this:
http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/ (http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/)
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Why do you need to balance it even further? I posted that interview to balance the anti-Kony promo. You're just putting it out of balance again ;D (2:1)
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:D
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I don't drive, so I expect I'll be wrong here... :D
... but aren't we supposed to be moving toward electric cars?
who killed the electric car.... who do you think :( Solar panels are becoming cheaper all the time. Hope to have these installed next year.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nsJAlrYjGz8[/youtube]
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The problem is: all this rubbish, electric cars, biofuel, ecco friendly products, etc, etc, is that its paved the way for thousands of companies who are nothing but con-artists, charging three times the price for everything, just pop down to your local health-product store and see their prices for useless roots and so called health products.
Certain politicians are leading us to believe that the car, is resposible for just about everything, so they raise taxes for just about everything concerning cars. In Europe we drive on 95 and 98, octane which is so clean it cant be any cleaner. Its all BS, form a new type of cons. Thats all.
Nuclear power for example, is the cleanest way of industries, yet some politicians wants us to go back and use coal, wood, etc. :-\ and even worse, many people are actually swallowing this garbage. :D
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The problem is: all this rubbish, electric cars, biofuel, ecco friendly products, etc, etc, is that its paved the way for thousands of companies who are nothing but con-artists, charging three times the price for everything, just pop down to your local health-product store and see their prices for useless roots and so called health products.
Certain politicians are leading us to believe that the car, is resposible for just about everything, so they raise taxes for just about everything concerning cars. In Europe we drive on 95 and 98, octane which is so clean it cant be any cleaner. Its all BS, form a new type of cons. Thats all.
Nuclear power for example, is the cleanest way of industries, yet some politicians wants us to go back and use coal, wood, etc. :-\ and even worse, many people are actually swallowing this garbage. :D
I agree with most of what you are saying. Places like China unbalance it all I'm afraid. Here in Oz they are very anti-nuclear and I'm not sure I understand why, but there are no Nuclear Power Stations here. Some countries and people have a mind set. Not related but for example, here in Brisbane there would be a riot if people had to consume recycled water whereas I happen to know London water is recycled up to 15 times! We need to break the mind set sooner than later for our children's children. I just think if it's possible to use technology to create clean energy, then we should be trying our hardest to use it. I mean, lets face it, we are only making them rich fat oil executive's richer and fatter hey!
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The problem is: all this rubbish, electric cars, biofuel, ecco friendly products, etc, etc, is that its paved the way for thousands of companies who are nothing but con-artists, charging three times the price for everything, just pop down to your local health-product store and see their prices for useless roots and so called health products.
Certain politicians are leading us to believe that the car, is resposible for just about everything, so they raise taxes for just about everything concerning cars. In Europe we drive on 95 and 98, octane which is so clean it cant be any cleaner. Its all BS, form a new type of cons. Thats all.
Nuclear power for example, is the cleanest way of industries, yet some politicians wants us to go back and use coal, wood, etc. :-\ and even worse, many people are actually swallowing this garbage. :D
I agree with most of what you are saying. Places like China unbalance it all I'm afraid. Here in Oz they are very anti-nuclear and I'm not sure I understand why, but there are no Nuclear Power Stations here. Some countries and people have a mind set. Not related but for example, here in Brisbane there would be a riot if people had to consume recycled water whereas I happen to know London water is recycled up to 15 times! We need to break the mind set sooner than later for our children's children. I just think if it's possible to use technology to create clean energy, then we should be trying our hardest to use it. I mean, lets face it, we are only making them rich fat oil executive's richer and fatter hey!
Know why? tell you why. Some people are so blind and easily led, they associate the very word, nuclear, with nuclear wars!, nuclear warfare, etc, they dont even separate nuclear-power industries, from nuclear powered warfare.
Just the very word, nuclear scares them off. Here in Sweden theres a lot of anti-nuclear as well and would you believe it, some politicians here wants us to go back to buying coal from Denmark? ::) and turn it into the old smog and fog effect, unhealthy to the point of stone-lungs, emphyzemia and death. Totally absurd!
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Of course they are, especially after Chernobil and Fukushima... Also the biggest problem is nuclear waste after fission reaction...
So, there is two different nuclear reaction fission ad fusion... Fusion is similar reaction like Sun, without nuclear waste, and very unstable... It will turn off immediately after something shakes that gentle process, without any consequence.... Scientists works on that..
Probably World need new Nikola Tesla again from Croatia... ;)
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Of course they are, especially after Chernobil and Fukushima... Also the biggest problem is nuclear waste after fission reaction...
So, there is two different nuclear reaction fission ad fusion... Fusion is similar reaction like Sun, without nuclear waste, and very unstable... It will turn off immediately after something shakes that gentle process, without any consequence.... Scientists works on that..
Probably World need new Nikola Tesla again from Croatia... ;)
Nuclear power is still the cleanest, most effective, most safe and cheapest we have got. The reason things go wrong and very, very seldom at that, is the human factor, people screw up, they always do, especially when greed sets in.
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The problem is: all this rubbish, electric cars, biofuel, ecco friendly products, etc, etc, is that its paved the way for thousands of companies who are nothing but con-artists, charging three times the price for everything, just pop down to your local health-product store and see their prices for useless roots and so called health products.
Certain politicians are leading us to believe that the car, is resposible for just about everything, so they raise taxes for just about everything concerning cars. In Europe we drive on 95 and 98, octane which is so clean it cant be any cleaner. Its all BS, form a new type of cons. Thats all.
Nuclear power for example, is the cleanest way of industries, yet some politicians wants us to go back and use coal, wood, etc. :-\ and even worse, many people are actually swallowing this garbage. :D
Dude, you are totally lost. Nuclear power is everything but clean. It produces toxic and radioactive carbage in amount that nobody can handle. Japan switched off 52 of 54 reactors and is doing well. Germany decided to get out and is doing well. The opposite. Those countries will develope the technology necesary for the future and will have a huge advantage.
The USA did a huge damage to the world through introducing the "Profit is all" Model. It destroys our world. The concept of infinite growth is destroying our world. It lacks intelligence and moral.
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Well said velocicarpo
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The problem is: all this rubbish, electric cars, biofuel, ecco friendly products, etc, etc, is that its paved the way for thousands of companies who are nothing but con-artists, charging three times the price for everything, just pop down to your local health-product store and see their prices for useless roots and so called health products.
Certain politicians are leading us to believe that the car, is resposible for just about everything, so they raise taxes for just about everything concerning cars. In Europe we drive on 95 and 98, octane which is so clean it cant be any cleaner. Its all BS, form a new type of cons. Thats all.
Nuclear power for example, is the cleanest way of industries, yet some politicians wants us to go back and use coal, wood, etc. :-\ and even worse, many people are actually swallowing this garbage. :D
Dude, you are totally lost. Nuclear power is everything but clean. It produces toxic and radioactive carbage in amount that nobody can handle. Japan switched off 52 of 54 reactors and is doing well. Germany decided to get out and is doing well. The opposite. Those countries will develope the technology necesary for the future and will have a huge advantage.
The USA did a huge damage to the world through introducing the "Profit is all" Model. It destroys our world. The concept of infinite growth is destroying our world. It lacks intelligence and moral.
Sure dude! ofcourse it is. Back to school are we? youre right, coal fires are much cleaner. sorry pal.
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All of these concerns seem small compared to what surely is on the way:
Paul Gilding: The Earth is full ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZT6YpCsapg#ws[/url])
This type of information is IMO too much for most people to handle. No wonder theres a show called "Doomsday Preppers" on cable in the US.
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All of these concerns seem small compared to what surely is on the way:
Paul Gilding: The Earth is full ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZT6YpCsapg#ws[/url])
This type of information is IMO too much for most people to handle. No wonder theres a show called "Doomsday Preppers" on cable in the US.
Yeah, but none of these two know what theyre talking about, just glib, thats all. Theyre probably associating nuclear power with nuclear weapons.
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All of these concerns seem small compared to what surely is on the way:
Paul Gilding: The Earth is full ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZT6YpCsapg#ws[/url])
This type of information is IMO too much for most people to handle. No wonder theres a show called "Doomsday Preppers" on cable in the US.
Yeah, but none of these two know what theyre talking about, just glib, thats all. Theyre probably associating nuclear power with nuclear weapons.
Did you even see the TED video on that link he posted?
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All of these concerns seem small compared to what surely is on the way:
Paul Gilding: The Earth is full ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZT6YpCsapg#ws[/url])
This type of information is IMO too much for most people to handle. No wonder theres a show called "Doomsday Preppers" on cable in the US.
Yeah, but none of these two know what theyre talking about, just glib, thats all. Theyre probably associating nuclear power with nuclear weapons.
Lagereek, don`t get me wrong. I highly value your posts regarding the stock industry. So I assume you are a intelligent being. You might inform yourself better about what is going on and what the options are. Otherwise, you may experience the same psychological mechanism which applies to many of our leaders and persons in charge. If reality is too complex for us to understand or to freightening, we tend to reduce reality to something more comfortable and simple, applying pure ignorance to the truth. This is not a bad intention, it is just admission that these people are not capable of understanding the complex environment we live in. Once this reflex may have been useful...when we lived in caves and just had to kick a butt or too to have success. Nowadays our possibilities and technologies lead to a far more complex world.
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All of these concerns seem small compared to what surely is on the way:
Paul Gilding: The Earth is full ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZT6YpCsapg#ws[/url])
This type of information is IMO too much for most people to handle. No wonder theres a show called "Doomsday Preppers" on cable in the US.
Yeah, but none of these two know what theyre talking about, just glib, thats all. Theyre probably associating nuclear power with nuclear weapons.
Lagereek, don`t get me wrong. I highly value your posts regarding the stock industry. So I assume you are a intelligent being. You might inform yourself better about what is going on and what the options are. Otherwise, you may experience the same psychological mechanism which applies to many of our leaders and persons in charge. If reality is too complex for us to understand or to freightening, we tend to reduce reality to something more comfortable and simple, applying pure ignorance to the truth. This is not a bad intention, it is just admission that these people are not capable of understanding the complex environment we live in. Once this reflex may have been useful...when we lived in caves and just had to kick a butt or too to have success. Nowadays our possibilities and technologies lead to a far more complex world.
Sure! youre right, in a sense. Nuclear power is a funny thing, as I said earlier, most people run for cover when just mentioning the word, and its got a bad reputation as well, which doesnt make things better.
best.
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On the other side:
Nuclear power is the primary source of electric power in France. In 2004, 425.8 TWh out of the country's total production of 540.6 TWh of electricity was from nuclear power (78.8%), the highest percentage in the world.
Due to the general inflexibility of nuclear energy compared to fossil energy based power plant, to achieve this high load factor, France is also forced to be the world's largest net exporter of electric power (exporting 18% of its total production via 10 GW overall of interconnection capacity[2] to Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Britain, and Germany)
France's nuclear power industry has been called "a success story" that has put the nation "ahead of the world" in terms of providing cheap, CO2-free energy.
Seems to answer most of the wishes of the people who want clean energy, electric cars, power for their computers, phones and home. But if Hanoi Jane is against it because it will melt down to the center of the Earth, fear mongering will win over technology.
Recycled water, isn't all the water in the world recycled already? ;D It's not like there's new water being made after 200,000 years just because we're here. Closed system except for some cosmic dust and things that fall from space.
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With the right policies, both nuclear and carbon based energy can be a thing of the pass.
Government activism in Germany has resulted in the share of electricity produced from renewable energy from 6.3 percent of the national total in 2000 to over 20 percent in the first half of 2011, not bad from cloudy northern europe.
Here in Munich there is a target of covering 100 per cent residential electricity consumption from renewable energy by the year 2015 and in total (including industry) by the year 2025.
The old energy industries have seen the “light”, they are in the vanguard of change.
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On the other side:
Nuclear power is the primary source of electric power in France. In 2004, 425.8 TWh out of the country's total production of 540.6 TWh of electricity was from nuclear power (78.8%), the highest percentage in the world.
Due to the general inflexibility of nuclear energy compared to fossil energy based power plant, to achieve this high load factor, France is also forced to be the world's largest net exporter of electric power (exporting 18% of its total production via 10 GW overall of interconnection capacity[2] to Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Britain, and Germany)
France's nuclear power industry has been called "a success story" that has put the nation "ahead of the world" in terms of providing cheap, CO2-free energy.
Seems to answer most of the wishes of the people who want clean energy, electric cars, power for their computers, phones and home. But if Hanoi Jane is against it because it will melt down to the center of the Earth, fear mongering will win over technology.
Recycled water, isn't all the water in the world recycled already? ;D It's not like there's new water being made after 200,000 years just because we're here. Closed system except for some cosmic dust and things that fall from space.
So, what do you do with all the radioactive garbage? Are you even aware of that? Do you know how much it is? We talk about 12.000 tons highly toxic trash per year. In Germany in France there are huuuge problems because of that. Water washing out radioactivity of the Storage palces. High cancer rates in the affected areas...uncontrollable intoxication of the water sources. "Clean energy" is brainwash. If you want clean energy put some wind wheels. They produce 30% of the energy in germany and produce almost no problems.
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With the right policies, both nuclear and carbon based energy can be a thing of the pass.
Government activism in Germany has resulted in the share of electricity produced from renewable energy from 6.3 percent of the national total in 2000 to over 20 percent in the first half of 2011, not bad from cloudy northern europe.
Here in Munich there is a target of covering 100 per cent residential electricity consumption from renewable energy by the year 2015 and in total (including industry) by the year 2025.
The old energy industries have seen the “light”, they are in the vanguard of change.
I'm all for that plan and hopefully the resources and technology will be developed. Until then burning coal to make electricity instead of something cleaner, like nuclear for the interim, doesn't make sense. When we get wind, solar or bio-fuel, energy cells (or something else) they shut down the coal, gas and nuke plants, and we move on. It's not an all or none situation as some make it.
Bottom line is it's eventually all about renewable electricity, isn't it? ;D
Hey what's wrong with Geo-thermal? Natural, it comes from inside our own planet, just dig a hole and tap into the resources?
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The first generation of history that said to their grandchildren they will live worse than their parents, this never happened before in whole history.
That's not due to greed, just simple mathematics.
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The first generation of history that said to their grandchildren they will live worse than their parents, this never happened before in whole history.
That's not due to greed, just simple mathematics.
Is someone forgetting the Dark Ages already? How were times during the ice ages? What about the world wars and great depressions or runaway inflation in the past? :D
fujiko can you define "live worse" and explain what's so bad about now or the future?
I'd rather see room for hope and things will always be getting better because of knowledge and advances in technology and science.
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Hey what's wrong with Geo-thermal? Natural, it comes from inside our own planet, just dig a hole and tap into the resources?
And the capacity of that energy is 400% of current use. And that source will never "dry" ;)
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Hey what's wrong with Geo-thermal? Natural, it comes from inside our own planet, just dig a hole and tap into the resources?
And the capacity of that energy is 400% of current use. And that source will never "dry" ;)
Amazing isn't it. Someone posts a mean spirited, closed minded, political hate message, and an intelligent conversation breaks out. How refreshing... ;D
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The first generation of history that said to their grandchildren they will live worse than their parents, this never happened before in whole history.
That's not due to greed, just simple mathematics.
Is someone forgetting the Dark Ages already? How were times during the ice ages? What about the world wars and great depressions or runaway inflation in the past? :D
fujiko can you define "live worse" and explain what's so bad about now or the future?
I'd rather see room for hope and things will always be getting better because of knowledge and advances in technology and science.
On those past times that have seen war or other crisis, the feeling was always that they were fighting for survival of their children, for the future. The fight against the worse, the fight to improve. There was always the though that the children would have a better life. Children have been the reason of life for generations.
Instead, today the feeling is just the opposite. There is no fight for the future, there is no hope of having what our parents had. As in 'Son, the party is over, we enjoyed it and there is no cake left for you. Go and fight with the others for the trash that we left behind and be sure to pay the huge debt you are going to inherit from us while we enjoy our accumulated wealth and pass laws to make your future even worse so that our retirement doesn't suffer from the current crisis'.
This generation is so full of itself that it forgot the ties with previous and next generations. This generation is the same that started putting grandparents in old people's homes and children in nurseries at earlier ages so they didn't have the burden of caring of their families. They are so disconnected that they don't care of others.
I'm not saying that this is the first time a generation lives worse than the previous, I'm saying that it is the first time that the previous generation is telling the next that they are going to live worse, will have less, there is no other way and they are not going to do anything to prevent it. They are not going to fight for their children as has been done always in the past.
Of course the reason is that it's their fault. They are the reason of this debt and resource depletion. Pure greed and egoism.
Again, an opinion and a generalization that doesn't apply to all.
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I saw something about semi-transparent solar panels recently. They're also working on glass that produces electricity. I wonder if cameras wont need batteries :) Lots of houses have solar panels in the UK now and they can drastically reduce the amount of electricity a household requires.
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I saw something about semi-transparent solar panels recently. They're also working on glass that produces electricity. I wonder if cameras wont need batteries :) Lots of houses have solar panels in the UK now and they can drastically reduce the amount of electricity a household requires.
Wow, how many centuries are needed for the panels to pay off? ;D
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^^^The technology will get cheaper. The old ugly expensive panels will be replaced by more practical cheaper options. Just like digital cameras that once cost a fortune and were useless have now become relatively cheap.
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^^^The technology will get cheaper. The old ugly expensive panels will be replaced by more practical cheaper options. Just like digital cameras that once cost a fortune and were useless have now become relatively cheap.
I meant more in the line of how many centuries will it take to get that 5.000 hours of sunshine in the UK to get back the money you've spent for the panels ;)
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We can't rely on any 'one' source of energy, but luckily there are plenty of sources out there.
Solar, geothermal, wind just to name three and also one of my favorites: harnessing the oceans tides to produce power.
There is no doubt that cars need to be electric based.
Battery tech is starting to catch up and that has been the greatest hurdle, because recharging is a lot slower than refueling.
People need to feel confident that their vehicles have a decent range. No one wants to run out of power in the middle of stop and go traffic.
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China is leader with use of electric cars...
Lately they notice some unexpected contamination of compounds that occur as a product of using electric engines ... I watched a documentary about it...
P.S.
I think that technology isn't problem...
In fact problem is replacement and cost of existing technologies and production lines....
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Right now I am watching american documentary film "War for oil" They said that USA and GB are creators of two states Iraq and Iran, only to get fake and cheap concession on oil fields... They were armed those two countries during cold war...
Conclusion is that today problems are their boomerang production...
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
Moral of it all: if earth is drained on its oil, etc, SO? it wont happen in any of our lifetimes and the kids we leave behind will laugh their heads off.
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
* you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
I know :D but you see my point, dont you? sitting around worrying about all this is nonsense. Its like a friend of mine, top athlete, sportsman, healthy living beyond belief, never a drink, never a cigarette, what happens? Pancreal-cancer and dead withion 9 months at 57. Bad luck.
Enjoy life to its full! wine, women and song and ofcourse the new Canon MIII and a few HD4s, thats it BOBs your uncle. ;D
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
He's a bloody amateur, check the pros ;D http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/ (http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/)
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I totally agree with you there, Lagereek. I can cite a number of similar examples among my relatives. As they say, if you do all the right things, you won't necessarily live longer... it'll just FEEL longer.. ;)
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How to reduce oil consumption?
Release artificial virus and reduce world population by half...
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
He's a bloody amateur, check the pros ;D [url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url] ([url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url])
loving those images, and also what they might be saying...they just get on with things, not having a car/van ain't going to stop them from doing business - we don't need all the things we think we do, just make do and get on with it.
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How to reduce oil consumption?
Release artificial virus and reduce world population by half...
No, way! Then the pharmaceutical industry would loose 90% of their "customers" (that's right, since mostly the old and sick ppl would die). And we all know those lobbies are as strong as the oil ones
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
I know :D but you see my point, dont you? sitting around worrying about all this is nonsense. Its like a friend of mine, top athlete, sportsman, healthy living beyond belief, never a drink, never a cigarette, what happens? Pancreal-cancer and dead withion 9 months at 57. Bad luck.
Enjoy life to its full! wine, women and song and ofcourse the new Canon MIII and a few HD4s, thats it BOBs your uncle. ;D
Of course I see your point. We don't know what the future hold, so we have to make the most out of life, not let worry consume you.
See no need springing for the MKIII, wouldn't mind the H4D though.
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
He's a bloody amateur, check the pros ;D [url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url] ([url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url])
loving those images, and also what they might be saying...they just get on with things, not having a car/van ain't going to stop them from doing business - we don't need all the things we think we do, just make do and get on with it.
I tottally agree! That's what I'm saying all the time, but I'm just a communist because of that for most ppl around here. Those ppl consider consumerism, buying things they don't even need, as their birth right. Which of course leads to destruction of our planet, pollution etc. To get back to cars, 99% of the people don't really need SUVs and pickup trucks. They just want it and they're driving them on tarmac exclusively. It's like buying a trailer to go to the grocery shop...
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How to reduce oil consumption?
Release artificial virus and reduce world population by half...
No, way! Then the pharmaceutical industry would loose 90% of their "customers" (that's right, since mostly the old and sick ppl would die). And we all know those lobbies are as strong as the oil ones
But who will be "reduced"? Only poorest people in 3rd countries... For now you have to help them beacause we are "moral" people even if we need more their Iridium or Oil than they our "precious" help...
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
He's a bloody amateur, check the pros ;D [url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url] ([url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url])
loving those images, and also what they might be saying...they just get on with things, not having a car/van ain't going to stop them from doing business - we don't need all the things we think we do, just make do and get on with it.
I tottally agree! That's what I'm saying all the time, but I'm just a communist because of that for most ppl around here. Those ppl consider consumerism, buying things they don't even need, as their birth right. Which of course leads to destruction of our planet, pollution etc. To get back to cars, 99% of the people don't really need SUVs and pickup trucks. They just want it and they're driving them on tarmac exclusively. It's like buying a trailer to go to the grocery shop...
All true, but we are humans, not known to be rationale.... Absolutely loved my Jeep Grand Cherokees (had 3)....but with petrol constantly increase in price and now pushing 16kr/litre it made more sense (unfortunately) so settle for a more economical....Volvo...hahah and also no longer living in the remote parts of the Scottish highlands also came into play. I still feel a tug in my heart whenever I see a Jeep drive by....
Caring about the planet, being smart regarding usage of natural resources and caring for fellow people in the world ain't being a communist, not that it is something wrong with that if that is your cup of tea.
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I agree with the points on excess too.
It's also a form of false worry and mental stress... believing that you 'must' have this and this and this in order to simply function or to 'be' something.
If someone has a luxury item that gives them fun and freedom, then good luck to them. But if it's become something that represents a 'standard' they must adhere to in order to feel credible, then it's just a prison of their own making.
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Just saw on the TV that a german family built a house which produces more Energy by solar cells that they can spend. They even charge cars etc with it. How can it get better? Zero co2, no bills, no painful stops at the gas station, no monthly energy costs....those who want to pay overpriced and dirty energy from the brainwashing oil industry can continue if they enjoy it so much! You can see the house here:
http://www.rbb-online.de/etc/medialib/rbb/rbb/portal/themen/energieeffizienzhaus/dossierbild_1.file.52759.512.218.jpg (http://www.rbb-online.de/etc/medialib/rbb/rbb/portal/themen/energieeffizienzhaus/dossierbild_1.file.52759.512.218.jpg)
http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/image/view/2012/2/4/11761502,9686243,highRes,maxh,480,maxw,480,23-05%252371-31984480.JPG.jpg (http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/image/view/2012/2/4/11761502,9686243,highRes,maxh,480,maxw,480,23-05%252371-31984480.JPG.jpg)
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Just saw on the TV that a german family built a house which produces more Energy by solar cells that they can spend. They even charge cars etc with it. How can it get better? Zero co2, no bills, no painful stops at the gas station, no monthly energy costs....those who want to pay overpriced and dirty energy from the brainwashing oil industry can continue if they enjoy it so much! You can see the house here:
[url]http://www.rbb-online.de/etc/medialib/rbb/rbb/portal/themen/energieeffizienzhaus/dossierbild_1.file.52759.512.218.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.rbb-online.de/etc/medialib/rbb/rbb/portal/themen/energieeffizienzhaus/dossierbild_1.file.52759.512.218.jpg[/url])
[url]http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/image/view/2012/2/4/11761502,9686243,highRes,maxh,480,maxw,480,23-05%252371-31984480.JPG.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/image/view/2012/2/4/11761502,9686243,highRes,maxh,480,maxw,480,23-05%252371-31984480.JPG.jpg[/url])
Yes! But who will pay easy and rich life of energy lobbies and their children around the world...?
They don't want this...
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I agree with the points on excess too.
It's also a form of false worry and mental stress... believing that you 'must' have this and this and this in order to simply function or to 'be' something.
If someone has a luxury item that gives them fun and freedom, then good luck to them. But if it's become something that represents a 'standard' they must adhere to in order to feel credible, then it's just a prison of their own making.
I'd say 90% of Apple products users are like that. It's more of a religion for them. Almost everyone I know is always buying the new version of iphone/ipad and also most of them never skip more than a generation of macbooks. Some of them are tech geeks, some of them really need new macbooks all the time, but 99% of the ppl really don't new to buy every new iteration of iphone. All of them are paying huge bills to the operators every month, on average 3 times higher than than most ppl.
Slightly offtopic, but I like this quote: Some ppl are so poor the only thing they have is money. It relates to those relying on material goods all the time. They forget to live their lives, to love, laugh and have real relations with ppl (instead of just their possessions and working 12h/day)
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Who is worried about oil? petrol or any fuel? just fill her up and drive the damned thing. Who is worried about disease? when you gonna die of something anyway, or about wars? when we need it for stabilization.
Are we going to walk around worrying for this c@@p, when we cant do a sodding thing about it? nobody is really worried about all this BUT! its a brillant and prosperous seller, so go on feed them your monies, cycle to work, even better cycle to your holliday resort, put the wife and two kids on a tandem-bike. Start heating up your homes with coal and wood and then take a deep breath and enjoy the cancer fumes. So its time to go to the hospital, where all of us will end up on a stainless steel slab, deep down in the dungeons of the Pathology-.dept.
have a nice day and think about oil! :)
you're good Christian - can fit yourself, the wife and two kids on a tandem! ;)
He's a bloody amateur, check the pros ;D [url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url] ([url]http://www.omgsoysauce.com/800/the-things-asians-carry-on-their-scooters/[/url])
loving those images, and also what they might be saying...they just get on with things, not having a car/van ain't going to stop them from doing business - we don't need all the things we think we do, just make do and get on with it.
I tottally agree! That's what I'm saying all the time, but I'm just a communist because of that for most ppl around here. Those ppl consider consumerism, buying things they don't even need, as their birth right. Which of course leads to destruction of our planet, pollution etc. To get back to cars, 99% of the people don't really need SUVs and pickup trucks. They just want it and they're driving them on tarmac exclusively. It's like buying a trailer to go to the grocery shop...
All true, but we are humans, not known to be rationale.... Absolutely loved my Jeep Grand Cherokees (had 3)....but with petrol constantly increase in price and now pushing 16kr/litre it made more sense (unfortunately) so settle for a more economical....Volvo...hahah and also no longer living in the remote parts of the Scottish highlands also came into play. I still feel a tug in my heart whenever I see a Jeep drive by....
Caring about the planet, being smart regarding usage of natural resources and caring for fellow people in the world ain't being a communist, not that it is something wrong with that if that is your cup of tea.
Good on you Martin! one of my cars right now is a Jeep grand Cherokee, 2009, model, big V8 engine, now, it doesnt consume more petrol then a new Volvo XC, etc, since the new Vortex engines, its a fallacy that big cars, SUVs, should be so thirsty. Look at the new Mercs, the 500 amg, bloody hell, 2,3 litres per swedish mile.
as I said, in Europe we drive on 95 and 98, its so clean it cant be any cleaner.
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Good on you Martin! one of my cars right now is a Jeep grand Cherokee, 2009, model, big V8 engine, now, it doesnt consume more petrol then a new Volvo XC, etc, since the new Vortex engines, its a fallacy that big cars, SUVs, should be so thirsty. Look at the new Mercs, the 500 amg, bloody hell, 2,3 litres per swedish mile.
as I said, in Europe we drive on 95 and 98, its so clean it cant be any cleaner.
Yeah, flowers are growing out of exhaust pipes :) .
It might consume the same as Volvo XC (although I find that hard, American cars really have terrible fuel economy), but it's still very very bad, it's hard to get it below 14l/100 kmh with a petrol engine. But yeah in Sweden you can't drive more than 100 km/h on motorways, so that helps a lot (it's a huge difference between constantly driving at 130 km/h or 100 km/h). Since you mentioned AMG Mercs (BTW 500 doesn't even exist :P ), it's my dream car, the C63 AMG. Clarkson called it an axe murderer with headlights ;D . And yeah, its fuel consumption is also high, it's very bad for the planet, but for what it's worth, I don't drive a lot, usually just 6k km/year. I'm sure I wouldn't go over 10k even with that Merc
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Dude, you are totally lost. Nuclear power is everything but clean. It produces toxic and radioactive carbage in amount that nobody can handle. Japan switched off 52 of 54 reactors and is doing well. Germany decided to get out and is doing well. The opposite. Those countries will develope the technology necesary for the future and will have a huge advantage.
The USA did a huge damage to the world through introducing the "Profit is all" Model. It destroys our world. The concept of infinite growth is destroying our world. It lacks intelligence and moral.
There's an article on the Economist after Fukushima showing that if Germany decides to shut down all nuclear plants today and substitute them with oil and coal, this would cost about 20.000 deaths per year both by pollution and by accidents in the oil/coal production chain. Nuclear power won't cause 20.000 deaths per year. Note that Fukushima, one of the worst nuclear disasters in history, caused zero indirect deaths: radiation levels in Tokyo after the accident were lower than in Rome, for example. Again on the Economist there is a very interesting article showing how Japan prevented any serious health damage.
Renewable energy is an interesting topic: sun power is everything but clean. Producing solar panels is not a clean process and, more, producing and disposing batteries used for storing energy for use at night is extremely polluting.
Nuclear power is de facto the cleanest and more secure way to produce reliable energy while we wait for fusion power.
A good book about Environment and Nuclear power:
http://www.amazon.com/Revenge-Gaia-Earths-Climate-Humanity/dp/0465041698/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3 (http://www.amazon.com/Revenge-Gaia-Earths-Climate-Humanity/dp/0465041698/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3)
Lovelock is the scientist who invented the Gaia theory, is the first and most well known environmentalist. He invented the green movements. He's a fervid pro-nuclear.
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Why nobody is drilling for the use of geothermal energy? What are the obstacles for tidal plants? I think these two sources should be the priority, the cleanest and they'd produce enormous amounts of energy, nuclear, coal, gas etc plants could be shut down completely.
It's kind of funny reading this hazard/risk free comments about nuclear power. Only mentioning Fukushima. What about Chernobyl? Is your memory really that short? :o
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I'd say 90% of Apple products users are like that.
Gah :D
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Why nobody is drilling for the use of geothermal energy? What are the obstacles for tidal plants? I think these two sources should be the priority, the cleanest and they'd produce enormous amounts of energy, nuclear, coal, gas etc plants could be shut down completely.
It's kind of funny reading this hazard/risk free comments about nuclear power. Only mentioning Fukushima. What about Chernobyl? Is your memory really that short? :o
Chernobyl caused about 200 casualties, probably less, I can't remember the exact number now. Most of the deaths could have been prevented by administering yodium to the population, as it happened in Japan. So, numbers at hand, Nuclear power caused less than 500 deaths (much less in fact) in 20 years compared to thousands and thousands per year associated with fossil fuels. Numbers can't lie.
Geothermal energy is not available anywhere. It's used where it is. Same with tidal plants: not available anywhere, and they don't produce a constant stream of energy and the energy produced is very expensive. What happens when there's no tide? You shut off your PC and lights? Don't forget that any mean of energy production must be as constant and reliable as possible to be useful (solar, wind and tidal are not constant and reliable).
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Why nobody is drilling for the use of geothermal energy? What are the obstacles for tidal plants? I think these two sources should be the priority, the cleanest and they'd produce enormous amounts of energy, nuclear, coal, gas etc plants could be shut down completely.
It's kind of funny reading this hazard/risk free comments about nuclear power. Only mentioning Fukushima. What about Chernobyl? Is your memory really that short? :o
Chernobyl caused about 200 casualties, probably less, I can't remember the exact number now. Most of the deaths could have been prevented by administering yodium to the population, as it happened in Japan. So, numbers at hand, Nuclear power caused less than 500 deaths (much less in fact) in 20 years compared to thousands and thousands per year associated with fossil fuels. Numbers can't lie.
Geothermal energy is not available anywhere. It's used where it is. Same with tidal plants: not available anywhere, and they don't produce a constant stream of energy and the energy produced is very expensive. What happens when there's no tide? You shut off your PC and lights? Don't forget that any mean of energy production must be as constant and reliable as possible to be useful (solar, wind and tidal are not constant and reliable).
You're only talking about mortalities, what about thousands of ppl getting cancer, defective babies and children. It's horrible, much worse than dropping dead in a matter of 24h or so (radiation poisoning ain't no picnic either).
It gets stored. What I wanted to say is, I think it's wrong to stick only to what we know, we need development, scientific advancement. If lobbies were as strong throughout history and it would suit them for us to stay in caves we still would have (that's what oil lobbies do, hold back technology that is much more advanced and clean for well over a century)
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Chernobyl caused about 200 casualties, probably less, I can't remember the exact number now. Most of the deaths could have been prevented by administering yodium to the population, as it happened in Japan. So, numbers at hand, Nuclear power caused less than 500 deaths (much less in fact) in 20 years compared to thousands and thousands per year associated with fossil fuels. Numbers can't lie.
Lying and denying the suffering of thousand of people is not only immoral, but disgusting. The Union of Concerned Scientists estimate that for the broader population there will be 50,000 excess cancer cases resulting in 25,000 excess cancer deaths. Numbers can`t lie. Check wikipedia amongst other official resources. And we are only talking about Chernobyl. Aren`t you ashamed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschernobyl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschernobyl)
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You're only talking about mortalities, what about thousands of ppl getting cancer, defective babies and children. It's horrible, much worse than dropping dead in a matter of 24h or so (radiation poisoning ain't no picnic either).
There's no study showing correlation between cancer rate in Europe and Chernobyl in the years after the disaster. Cancer rate has stayed the same. Don't forget that the earth is naturally radioactive.
It gets stored. What I wanted to say is, I think it's wrong to stick only to what we know, we need development, scientific advancement. If lobbies were as strong throughout history and it would suit them for us to stay in caves we still would have (that's what oil lobbies do, hold back technology that is much more advanced and clean for well over a century)
It gets stored in batteries that are VERY dangerous and VERY unreliable and VERY limited. And they pollute like hell. We are not talking here of batteries for a camera, but batteries to store hundreds of MW to power cities. Do you have an idea how big these batteries would be?
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Lying and denying the suffering of thousand of people is not only immoral, but disgusting. The Union of Concerned Scientists estimate that for the broader population there will be 50,000 excess cancer cases resulting in 25,000 excess cancer deaths. Numbers can`t lie. Check wikipedia amongst other official resources. And we are only talking about Chernobyl. Aren`t you ashamed?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschernobyl[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschernobyl[/url])
No, I'm never ashamed of using my brain and stating facts and being truthful. You report an estimation, which is not a scientific fact. There have been several studies showing NO strong correlation between cancer rate in Europe and Chernobyl. You can be as disgusted as you like, but i suggest you to use your time studying instead. It's more productive.
Example:
http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf (http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf)
Note how the only measurable effect is on Thyroid cancer that is prevented simply by administering jodium as it happened in Japan.
Please next time get your facts straight before insulting people who actually study this stuff.
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Lying and denying the suffering of thousand of people is not only immoral, but disgusting. The Union of Concerned Scientists estimate that for the broader population there will be 50,000 excess cancer cases resulting in 25,000 excess cancer deaths. Numbers can`t lie. Check wikipedia amongst other official resources. And we are only talking about Chernobyl. Aren`t you ashamed?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschernobyl[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschernobyl[/url])
No, I'm never ashamed of using my brain and stating facts and being truthful. You report an estimation, which is not a scientific fact. There have been several studies showing NO strong correlation between cancer rate in Europe and Chernobyl. You can be as disgusted as you like, but i suggest you to use your time studying instead. It's more productive.
Example:
[url]http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf[/url])
Note how the only measurable effect is on Thyroid cancer that is prevented simply by administering yodium as it happened in Japan.
Please next time get your facts straight before insulting people who actually study this stuff.
You really believe what you say, no? Yodium prevents cellular damage under low dose radioation exposure, but is totally useless when we talk about a fallout of the chernobyl category. Only when you are kilometers away maybe. Yodium does only prevent SOME sort of cell damage but is mostly useless for radioation sickness, frying organs, DNA damage and the most forms of cancer occuring after chernobyl. Do you know how many people suffered from that and are still suffering? Do you know how many children had been born mutated and sick?
The Children Beyond Chernobyl, Part 1/7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_FI2alBpBY#ws)
Children of Chernobyl - 49 minute documentary - trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COvUwn6yxFc#)
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/25/world/inherited-damage-is-found-in-chernobyl-area-children.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/25/world/inherited-damage-is-found-in-chernobyl-area-children.html)
http://www.google.com/search?q=tschernobyl+children&hl=de&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HdRgT_CrK4m2twfqvoCpBQ&ved=0CEUQsAQ&biw=1267&bih=773#hl=de&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Chernobyl+children&oq=Chernobyl+children&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=6831l6831l0l6998l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&gs_l=img.3...6831l6831l0l6998l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1267&bih=773&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b (http://www.google.com/search?q=tschernobyl+children&hl=de&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HdRgT_CrK4m2twfqvoCpBQ&ved=0CEUQsAQ&biw=1267&bih=773#hl=de&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Chernobyl+children&oq=Chernobyl+children&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=6831l6831l0l6998l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&gs_l=img.3...6831l6831l0l6998l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1267&bih=773&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b)
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You're only talking about mortalities, what about thousands of ppl getting cancer, defective babies and children. It's horrible, much worse than dropping dead in a matter of 24h or so (radiation poisoning ain't no picnic either).
There's no study showing correlation between cancer rate in Europe and Chernobyl in the years after the disaster. Cancer rate has stayed the same. Don't forget that the earth is naturally radioactive.
Are you serious?!?
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You really believe what you say, no? Yodium prevents cellular damage under low dose radioation exposure, but is totally useless when we talk about a fallout of the chernobyl category. Only when you are kilometers away maybe. Yodium does only prevent SOME sort of cell damage but is mostly useless for radioation sickness, frying organs, DNA damage and the most forms of cancer occuring after chernobyl. Do you know how many people suffered from that and are still suffering? Do you know how many children had
I believe in scientific facts, and these scientific facts show how there is no strong correlation between cancer rate and Chernobyl in Europe, as much as you would have liked it to be different for your perverse agenda. The study I posted (among many others) shows how many people suffered. Luckily not many.
Are you serious?!?
Yes.
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You really believe what you say, no? Yodium prevents cellular damage under low dose radioation exposure, but is totally useless when we talk about a fallout of the chernobyl category. Only when you are kilometers away maybe. Yodium does only prevent SOME sort of cell damage but is mostly useless for radioation sickness, frying organs, DNA damage and the most forms of cancer occuring after chernobyl. Do you know how many people suffered from that and are still suffering? Do you know how many children had
I believe in scientific facts, and these scientific facts show how there is no strong correlation between cancer rate and Chernobyl in Europe, as much as you would have liked it to be different for your perverse agenda. The study I posted (among many others) shows how many people suffered. Luckily not many.
Are you serious?!?
Yes.
Lol! This is simply not true. No facts here. You are just making a joke of yourself.
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Lol! This is simply not true. No facts here. You are just making a joke of yourself.
I posted the scientific facts. Go tell them it's not true.
http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf (http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf)
You can call me names as much as you want, it won't change the facts. Sorry.
Here's someone who's also making a joke of himself:
James Lovelock and Nuclear Energy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOaDY13bI84#)
One of the most remarkable scientists of our time.
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Lol! This is simply not true. No facts here. You are just making a joke of yourself.
I posted the scientific facts. Go tell them it's not true.
[url]http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.sfrp.asso.fr/img/pdf/7-hindie.pdf[/url])
You can call me names as much as you want, it won't change the facts. Sorry.
Here's someone who's also making a joke of himself:
James Lovelock and Nuclear Energy ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOaDY13bI84#[/url])
One of the most remarkable scientists of our time.
I can`t believe that....it is really a shame to have people like that amongst us.
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I can`t believe that....it is really a shame to have people like that amongst us.
Keep insulting me, it will make your arguments stronger.
http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#2 (http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#2)
The international expert group predicts that among the 600 000 persons receiving more significant exposures (liquidators working in 1986–1987, evacuees, and residents of the most ‘contaminated’ areas), the possible increase in cancer mortality due to this radiation exposure might be up to a few per cent. This might eventually represent up to four thousand fatal cancers in addition to the approximately 100 000 fatal cancers to be expected due to all other causes in this population. Among the 5 million persons residing in other ‘contaminated’ areas, the doses are much lower and any projected increases are more speculative, but are expected to make a difference of much less than one per cent in cancer mortality.
The real damage to people in the region, according to the Chernobyl Forum report, is from poverty and mental stress. “The most significant public health impact of Chernobyl has been on mental health,” says Luisa Vinton, who headed the forum, in the video Living with Chernobyl (2007). “The conclusion we’ve come to is that fear of radiation is a far more important health threat than radiation itself.…”
So many people making jokes of themselves. I find it more of a shame to have people amongst us who resort to insults when they lose an argument so clearly. Have a good day.
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I can`t believe that....it is really a shame to have people like that amongst us.
Keep insulting me, it will make your arguments stronger.
[url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#2[/url] ([url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#2[/url])
The international expert group predicts that among the 600 000 persons receiving more significant exposures (liquidators working in 1986–1987, evacuees, and residents of the most ‘contaminated’ areas), the possible increase in cancer mortality due to this radiation exposure might be up to a few per cent. This might eventually represent up to four thousand fatal cancers in addition to the approximately 100 000 fatal cancers to be expected due to all other causes in this population. Among the 5 million persons residing in other ‘contaminated’ areas, the doses are much lower and any projected increases are more speculative, but are expected to make a difference of much less than one per cent in cancer mortality.
The real damage to people in the region, according to the Chernobyl Forum report, is from poverty and mental stress. “The most significant public health impact of Chernobyl has been on mental health,” says Luisa Vinton, who headed the forum, in the video Living with Chernobyl (2007). “The conclusion we’ve come to is that fear of radiation is a far more important health threat than radiation itself.…”
So many people making jokes of themselves. I find it more of a shame to have people amongst us who resort to insults when they lose an argument so clearly. Have a good day.
Assessing the disaster's effects on human health
Main article: Chernobyl disaster effects
Demonstration on Chernobyl day near WHO in Geneva
An international assessment of the health effects of the Chernobyl accident is contained in a series of reports by the United Nations Scientific Committee of the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR).[105] UNSCEAR was set up as a collaboration between various UN bodies, including the World Health Organisation, after the atomic bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to assess the long-term effects of radiation on human health.
UNSCEAR has conducted 20 years of detailed scientific and epidemiological research on the effects of the Chernobyl accident. Apart from the 57 direct deaths in the accident itself, UNSCEAR predicted in 2005 based on Linear no-threshold model (LNT) that up to 4,000 additional cancer deaths related to the accident would appear "among the 600 000 persons receiving more significant exposures (liquidators working in 1986–87, evacuees, and residents of the most contaminated areas)".[106] Later this number was revised slightly up to 5,000. The number of excess deaths among 5 million people living in the less contaminated areas is estimated at 3,000–5,000. The number of excess cancer deaths worldwide (including all contaminated areas) is approximately 27,000 based on the same LNT.[107]
UNSCEAR now states:
Among the residents of Belarus, the Russian Federation and Ukraine, there had been up to the year 2005 more than 6,000 cases of thyroid cancer reported in children and adolescents who were exposed at the time of the accident, and more cases can be expected during the next decades. Notwithstanding the influence of enhanced screening regimes, many of those cancers were most likely caused by radiation exposures shortly after the accident. Apart from this increase, there is no evidence of a major public health impact attributable to radiation exposure two decades after the accident. There is no scientific evidence of increases in overall cancer incidence or mortality rates or in rates of non-malignant disorders that could be related to radiation exposure. The incidence of leukaemia in the general population, one of the main concerns owing to the shorter time expected between exposure and its occurrence compared with solid cancers, does not appear to be elevated. Although those most highly exposed individuals are at an increased risk of radiation-associated effects, the great majority of the population is not likely to experience serious health consequences as a result of radiation from the Chernobyl accident. Many other health problems have been noted in the populations that are not related to radiation exposure.[108]
Thyroid cancer incidence in children and adolescents from Belarus after the Chernobyl accident.
Yellow: Adults (19–34)
Blue: Adolescents (15–18)
Red: Children (0–14)
However, thyroid cancer is generally treatable.[109] With proper treatment, the five-year survival rate of thyroid cancer is 96%, and 92% after 30 years.[110] UNSCEAR counted 15 deaths from thyroid cancer in the affected population.
In addition, the IAEA states that there has been no increase in the rate of birth defects or abnormalities, or solid cancers (such as lung cancer) corroborating UNSCEAR's assessments.[111] UNSCEAR does also raise the possibility of long term genetic defects, pointing to a doubling of radiation-induced minisatellite mutations among children born in 1994.[112] There is some dispute over the control groups in this study and the long term effects are not clear.
The Chernobyl Forum is a regular meeting of IAEA, other United Nations organizations (FAO, UN-OCHA, UNDP, UNEP, UNSCEAR, WHO, and the World Bank), and the governments of Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine that issues regular scientific assessments of the evidence for health effects of the Chernobyl accident.[113] The Chernobyl Forum concluded that twenty-eight emergency workers ("liquidators") died from acute radiation syndrome including beta burns and 15 patients died from thyroid cancer in the following years, and it roughly estimated that cancer deaths caused by Chernobyl may reach a total of about 4,000 among the 5 million persons residing in the contaminated areas, the report projected cancer mortality "increases of less than one per cent" (~0.3%) on a time span of 80 years, cautioning that this estimate was "speculative" since at this time only a few tens cancer deaths are linked to the Chernobyl disaster.[citation needed] Fred Mettler, a radiation expert at the University of New Mexico, puts this last number at "perhaps" 5000, for a total of 9000 Chernobyl associated fatal cancers, saying "the number is small (representing a few percent) relative to the normal spontaneous risk of cancer, but the numbers are large in absolute terms".[114] The same report outlined studies based in data found in the Russian Registry from 1991 to 1998 that suggested that "of 61,000 Russian workers exposed to an average dose of 107 mSv about 5% of all fatalities that occurred may have been due to radiation exposure."[citation needed]
The same report went into depth about the risks to mental health of exaggerated fears about the effects of radiation:[111]
The designation of the affected population as “victims” rather than “survivors” has led them to perceive themselves as helpless, weak and lacking control over their future. This, in turn, has led either to over cautious behavior and exaggerated health concerns, or to reckless conduct, such as consumption of mushrooms, berries and game from areas still designated as highly contaminated, overuse of alcohol and tobacco, and unprotected promiscuous sexual activity.[115]
Fred Mettler commented that 20 years later:[116]
The population remains largely unsure of what the effects of radiation actually are and retain a sense of foreboding. A number of adolescents and young adults who have been exposed to modest or small amounts of radiation feel that they are somehow fatally flawed and there is no downside to using illicit drugs or having unprotected sex. To reverse such attitudes and behaviors will likely take years although some youth groups have begun programs that have promise.
In addition, disadvantaged children around Chernobyl suffer from health problems that are attributable not only to the Chernobyl accident, but also to the poor state of post-Soviet health systems.[111]
A significant issue relating to problems establishing consistent data to base the analysis of the impact of the Chernobyl accident on the population at large is the social and political changes in the region since 1990. These have had numerous impacts in the administration of health care, on socio-economic stability, and even on the manner in which statistical data is collected. Some of these difficulties are outlined in the report "Cancer Mortality in Russia and Ukraine: Validity, Competing Risks and Cohort Effects",[117] which points out among other things that:
...there is clear evidence of weaknesses in cause-of-death registration, especially among those >70 which has, historically, led to underestimation of cancer mortality especially in rural populations. Against this background, the rapid increase in cancer mortality among the elderly in Russia and Ukraine in the late 1980s and its striking further rise in Ukraine in 1989–1990 seems to be due, in large part, to an increase in completeness of registration of cancer as an underlying (or primary) cause of death. The decline in cancer mortality at older ages in the 1990s, which is particularly striking in Ukraine, seems likely to represent a return to previous approaches to registration.
Another study critical of the Chernobyl Forum report was commissioned by Greenpeace, which asserts that "the most recently published figures indicate that in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine alone the accident could have resulted in an estimated 200,000 additional deaths in the period between 1990 and 2004."[118] The Scientific Secretary of the Chernobyl Forum criticized the report's exclusive reliance on non-peer reviewed locally produced studies (in fact, most of the study's sources are from peer-reviewed journals, including many Western medical journals, or from proceedings of scientific conferences[118]), while Gregory Härtl (spokesman for the WHO) suggested that the conclusions were motivated by ideology.[119]
The German affiliate of the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War (IPPNW) argued that more than 10,000 people are today affected by thyroid cancer and 50,000 cases are expected in the future.[120]
Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment is an English translation of the 2007 Russian publication Chernobyl. It was published in 2009 by the New York Academy of Sciences in their Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences. It presents an analysis of scientific literature and concludes that medical records between 1986, the year of the accident, and 2004 reflect 985,000 premature deaths as a result of the radioactivity released. The authors suggest that most of the deaths were in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, though others occurred worldwide throughout the many countries that were struck by radioactive fallout from Chernobyl. The literature analysis draws on over 1,000 published titles and over 5,000 internet and printed publications discussing the consequences of the Chernobyl disaster. The authors contend that those publications and papers were written by leading Eastern European authorities and have largely been downplayed or ignored by the IAEA and UNSCEAR.[121] This estimate has however been criticized as exaggerated, lacking a proper scientific base.[122]
Other health problems linked with the Chernobyl disaster include
Graph of Down syndrome cases in Belarus around the time of Chernobyl
Down syndrome (trisomy 21). In West Berlin, Germany, prevalence of Down syndrome (trisomy 21) peaked 9 months following the main fallout.[11, 12][citation needed] Between 1980 and 1986, the birth prevalence of Down syndrome was quite stable (i.e., 1.35–1.59 per 1,000 live births [27–31 cases]).[citation needed] In 1987, 46 cases were diagnosed (prevalence = 2.11 per 1,000 live births). Most of the excess resulted from a cluster of 12 cases among children born in January 1987.[citation needed] The prevalence of Down syndrome in 1988 was 1.77, and in 1989, it reached pre-Chernobyl values. The authors[citation needed] noted that the isolated geographical position of West Berlin before reunification, the free genetic counseling, and complete coverage of the population through one central cytogenetic laboratory support completeness of case ascertainment; in addition, constant culture preparation and analysis protocols ensure a high quality of data.[citation needed]
Chromosomal aberrations. Reports of structural chromosome aberrations in people exposed to fallout in Belarus and other parts of the former Soviet Union, Austria, and Germany argue against a simple dose-response relationship between degree of exposure and incidence of aberrations.[citation needed] These findings are relevant because a close relationship exists between chromosome changes and congenital malformations. Inasmuch as some types of aberration are almost specific for ionizing radiation, researchers use aberrations to assess exposure dose. On the basis of current coefficients, however, it is not certain that the calculated individual exposure doses resulting from fallout would not induce measurable rates of chromosome aberrations.[citation needed]
Neural tube defects (NTDs) in Turkey. During the embryonic phase of fetal development, the neural tube differentiates into the brain and spinal cord (i.e., collectively forming the central nervous system). Chemical or physical interactions with this process can cause NTDs. Common features of this class of malformations are more or less extended fissures, often accompanied by consecutive dislocation of central nervous system (CNS) tissue. NTDs include spina bifida occulta and aperta, encephalocele, and – in the extreme case – anencephaly. The first evidence in support of a possible association between CNS malformations and fallout from Chernobyl was published by Akar et al.. in 1988.[citation needed] The Mustafakemalpasa State Hospital, Bursa region, covers a population of approximately 90,000. Investigators have documented the prevalence of malformations since 1983.[citation needed] The prevalence of NTDs was 1.7 to 9.2 per 1,000 births, but during the first 6 months of 1987 increased to 20 per 1,000 (12 cases). The excess was most pronounced for the subgroup of anencephalics, in which prevalence increased 5-fold (i.e., 10 per 1,000 [6 cases]). In the consecutive months that followed (i.e., July–December 1987), the prevalence decreased again (1.3 per 1,000 for all NTDs, 0.6 per 1,000 for anencephaly), and it reached pre-Chernobyl levels during the first half of 1988 (all NTDs: 0.6 per 1,000; anencephaly: 0.2 per 1,000). This initial report was supported by several similar findings in observational studies from different regions of Turkey.[citation needed]
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"More than 4000 cases of thyroid cancer were diagnosed in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine between 1992 and 2002 among those who were children and adolescents at the time of the accident. Most of these cancers can be attributed to radiation. The majority of those patients have been treated successfully. "
“The conclusion we’ve come to is that fear of radiation is a far more important health threat than radiation itself.…”
Numbers don't lie. I rest my case.
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And to really sum it up:
http://www.the9billion.com/2011/03/24/death-rate-from-nuclear-power-vs-coal (http://www.the9billion.com/2011/03/24/death-rate-from-nuclear-power-vs-coal)
Seth Godin recently posted this simplified chart, from an altogether more complicated one. He maintains that this is a simple yet non-exaggerated version of the complicated one. The point is that for each person killed by nuclear power generation, 4,000 die from coal. This is adjusted for how much power is produced by each method of power generation.
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And to really sum it up:
[url]http://www.the9billion.com/2011/03/24/death-rate-from-nuclear-power-vs-coal[/url] ([url]http://www.the9billion.com/2011/03/24/death-rate-from-nuclear-power-vs-coal[/url])
Seth Godin recently posted this simplified chart, from an altogether more complicated one. He maintains that this is a simple yet non-exaggerated version of the complicated one. The point is that for each person killed by nuclear power generation, 4,000 die from coal. This is adjusted for how much power is produced by each method of power generation.
Numbers can't lie, adjustments can.
Deaths per watt? That's a really disgusting joke.
Next thing we hear is war deaths or crime deaths adjusted by the money gained. Deaths per dollar.
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Numbers can't lie, adjustments can.
Deaths per watt? That's a really disgusting joke.
Next thing we hear is war deaths or crime deaths adjusted by the money gained. Deaths per dollar.
Why a joke?! You need to produce X energy to satisfy the needs of a certain country, if you produce it using nuclear power, you can expect a certain number of deaths, if you produce it using coal you can expect 4.000 times more people DEAD. What will you choose?
You always have the option of turning off your PC and live in a cave without electricity. Please try to be logical and not hysterical.
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Oh man! this is getting heavy! all this because some OP, wishes the oil price to escalde? KInow the biggest killer on earth? anybody? I will tell you, FOOD, and ofcourse the wrong food.
According to all health authorities, food, kill more people on a global scale then alcohol, smoking cars, etc, put together.
have a big-Mac and chips, very healthy.
BTW, Im not joking.
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Oh man! this is getting heavy! all this because some OP, wishes the oil price to escalde? KInow the biggest killer on earth? anybody? I will tell you, FOOD, and ofcourse the wrong food.
According to all health authorities, food, kill more people on a global scale then alcohol, smoking cars, etc, put together.
have a big-Mac and chips, very healthy.
BTW, Im not joking.
Gah, I feel like a no-sayer now :D
It looks like hamburgers are not that bad. Give a look at this:
http://www.laleva.org/eng/2012/03/world_renown_heart_surgeon_speaks_out_on_what_really_causes_heart_disease.html (http://www.laleva.org/eng/2012/03/world_renown_heart_surgeon_speaks_out_on_what_really_causes_heart_disease.html)
But I need to research more on this, I'm getting mixed information.
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Oh man! this is getting heavy! all this because some OP, wishes the oil price to escalde? KInow the biggest killer on earth? anybody? I will tell you, FOOD, and ofcourse the wrong food.
According to all health authorities, food, kill more people on a global scale then alcohol, smoking cars, etc, put together.
have a big-Mac and chips, very healthy.
BTW, Im not joking.
Gah, I feel like a no-sayer now :D
It looks like hamburgers are not that bad. Give a look at this:
[url]http://www.laleva.org/eng/2012/03/world_renown_heart_surgeon_speaks_out_on_what_really_causes_heart_disease.html[/url] ([url]http://www.laleva.org/eng/2012/03/world_renown_heart_surgeon_speaks_out_on_what_really_causes_heart_disease.html[/url])
But I need to research more on this, I'm getting mixed information.
Yes but still, not just associated with heart problems, wrong food effect all organs, heart, liver, stomach, intestines, especially the colon, just about everything, cancer of the colon is in fact the most common cancer, especially in the modern and prosperous world.
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Gah, I feel like a no-sayer now :D
It looks like hamburgers are not that bad. Give a look at this:
[url]http://www.laleva.org/eng/2012/03/world_renown_heart_surgeon_speaks_out_on_what_really_causes_heart_disease.html[/url] ([url]http://www.laleva.org/eng/2012/03/world_renown_heart_surgeon_speaks_out_on_what_really_causes_heart_disease.html[/url])
This is a link to a conspiracy theory website. And your first source was simply a powerpoint presentation. I expect a link to infowars.com to pop up here any minute now...
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Numbers can't lie, adjustments can.
Deaths per watt? That's a really disgusting joke.
Next thing we hear is war deaths or crime deaths adjusted by the money gained. Deaths per dollar.
Why a joke?! You need to produce X energy to satisfy the needs of a certain country, if you produce it using nuclear power, you can expect a certain number of deaths, if you produce it using coal you can expect 4.000 times more people DEAD. What will you choose?
You always have the option of turning off your PC and live in a cave without electricity. Please try to be logical and not hysterical.
I'm not saying that I prefer coal over nuclear. I just find disgusting to use this kind of numbers and adjustments.
To me both coal and nuclear are a limited resource that will run out.
The numbers you pointed out are so adjusted and manipulated that it's hard to have a logical conversation using them.
If I have to chose nuclear or coal, I choose nuclear. I prefer it because the error margin is so small that companies have to be very careful to prevent any accident. With coal, companies don't have the same gun pointing at their heads and don't do everything to prevent pollution and make combustion cleaner. Combustion pollution is easier to clean than radiation but because governments allow much higher ratio of pollution than radiation and are lenient when it comes to hunt and punish companies that pollute the air, it turns out that companies have to incentive to pollute less and so radiation is safer. If coal had the same high operating standards as nuclear, coal would be much cleaner than it is today.
From the first time we used fire, we got used to smoke pollution. We are not used to radiation and it's much better for us that it stays that way or we will get relaxed and make a huge mistake.
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Sell your car, don't throw out anything you cannot patch or repair, stay away from plastics, recycle everything you can and don't fly. That will allow you to remove yourself from much of the fossil fuel equation that is destroying nations, people and animals. That's what we do and I'm less bitter. For a family of 4 we produce one tiny bag of garbage per week. Whether the cost of oil goes up or down, we are rarely directly effected. ;)
To finally end up that story! :'( :'(
This morning I watched an Italian documentary film ... The expedition was traveling by trucks from Italy to the Pacific and back ...
This episode was in Iraq ...
They showed the place where the bomb shelter hit by U.S. "smart" bomb and killed 1,200 people inside ...
I am from Croatia, my country has gone through the war 20 years ago, although I have not seen or heard anything of war, only through the TV, because I live in a part of country where wasn't war, but this is something different...
This morning I saw in that documentary what is really terrible, shocking, disgusting ...
What "advanced" western civilization can make to the poor part of this world ...
They showed little children hands "glued" to the walls, they were carbonized on 2000 degrees Celsius, which was produced by that airplane bomb ...
But we are still talking about RPI, PRD, intoxicated with our "gentle" lives, angry if oil jumps 1% ...
People..., their little hands are still there, fossilized on the walls and ceilings in 3D!!! :'(
I am desperate .... :-[ :-\ ???
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This is a link to a conspiracy theory website. And your first source was simply a powerpoint presentation. I expect a link to infowars.com to pop up here any minute now...
http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3 (http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3)
GreenFacts.org, clearly a branch of infowars.com. Nice try. Didn't work though.
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This is a link to a conspiracy theory website. And your first source was simply a powerpoint presentation. I expect a link to infowars.com to pop up here any minute now...
[url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url] ([url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url])
GreenFacts.org, clearly a branch of infowars.com. Nice try. Didn't work though.
Again.
The Union of Concerned Scientists estimate that for the broader population there will be 50,000 excess cancer cases resulting in 25,000 excess cancer deaths
This is the official Version and statet like that on Wikipedia an various other real science sites. 50.000 cancer cases. How can you be so cynic?
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This is a link to a conspiracy theory website. And your first source was simply a powerpoint presentation. I expect a link to infowars.com to pop up here any minute now...
[url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url] ([url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url])
GreenFacts.org, clearly a branch of infowars.com. Nice try. Didn't work though.
Again.
The Union of Concerned Scientists estimate that for the broader population there will be 50,000 excess cancer cases resulting in 25,000 excess cancer deaths
This is the official Version and statet like that on Wikipedia an various other real science sites. 50.000 cancer cases. How can you be so cynic?
Again. This estimation has been proven incorrect. How can you be so blind?
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This is a link to a conspiracy theory website. And your first source was simply a powerpoint presentation. I expect a link to infowars.com to pop up here any minute now...
[url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url] ([url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url])
GreenFacts.org, clearly a branch of infowars.com. Nice try. Didn't work though.
Again.
The Union of Concerned Scientists estimate that for the broader population there will be 50,000 excess cancer cases resulting in 25,000 excess cancer deaths
This is the official Version and statet like that on Wikipedia an various other real science sites. 50.000 cancer cases. How can you be so cynic?
Again. This estimation has been proven incorrect. How can you be so blind?
Well. I say it is proven that you ahve a yellow nose and red teeth. All the photos you provide had been manipulated. All scientific prove you bring is manipulated. Furthermore, I am the only person holding the truth. Everyone else is wrong, they just don`t realise the truth about your red teeth.
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This is a link to a conspiracy theory website. And your first source was simply a powerpoint presentation. I expect a link to infowars.com to pop up here any minute now...
[url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url] ([url]http://www.greenfacts.org/en/chernobyl/l-2/2-health-effects-chernobyl.htm#3[/url])
GreenFacts.org, clearly a branch of infowars.com. Nice try. Didn't work though.
How does posting a link to a different website prove that the previous link wasn't a conspiracy site? Doesn't even make sense.
The first site contained info on "Chemtrails" and other goofiness that conspiracy whackjobs are always harping about. So I think it did indeed work.
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ummm from all the people who prefer nuclear over coal. would you be willing to have a nuclear plant in your neighborhood and all the excess buried near by? Lets be realistic... who would be willing to have a nuclear plant in their neighborhood if that was the only way???
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ummm from all the people who prefer nuclear over coal. would you be willing to have a nuclear plant in your neighborhood and all the excess buried near by? Lets be realistic... who would be willing to have a nuclear plant in their neighborhood if that was the only way???
If I had to choose between a nuclear plant or a coal power plant in my neighborhood, I would choose the nuclear alternative. I'll rather live with the risk of complete meltdown than almost certain health problems caused by the coal plant.
And did you know that coal power also emits radiation? From Wikipedia: It is estimated that during 1982, US coal burning released 155 times as much uncontrolled radioactivity into the atmosphere as the Three Mile Island incident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil-fuel_power_station#Radioactive_trace_elements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil-fuel_power_station#Radioactive_trace_elements)
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Forget oil and gas and coal for a second.... the real danger to humanity is humans.
We make all these great progress through technology but technology itself isn't the best for man kinds future.
We invent huge trawlers that pretty much picks up everything on the ocean floor so that we can consume fish on the cheap. Scientists say we will decimate ocean wild life by 2050. Im beginning to see a lot more farmed fish than ever before. cheaper food, mass consumption, longer life span.
Same thing goes for farming technology. seeds and crops yield a whole lot more now a days on 1 acre of land than ever before. cheaper food, mass consumption, longer life span.
In the past, we had plagues and wars that kept our population in check. Generally speaking, average lifespan has risen. Mom and pop not hungry, lets pop out babies =P The threat of a nuclear holocaust is preventing an all out war. Mass unchecked population growth that is living beyond our means. Thats why there is a general feeling that our kids will have it worse.
Previous poster talked about a virus that wipes out half the population which reminded me of "12 monkeys". Either mother nature or man made, a virus or a resource war will surely decrease our population.
Back on oil, I believe thats whats happening now in IRAN. Less dependence on oil, Iran's position in the world is weakening, so in their self interest, they are looking to go nuclear.
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If what you're saying is true (especially in the last paragraph), then they're just trying to protect themselves ;)
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And did you know that coal power also emits radiation? From Wikipedia: It is estimated that during 1982, US coal burning released 155 times as much uncontrolled radioactivity into the atmosphere as the Three Mile Island incident. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil-fuel_power_station#Radioactive_trace_elements[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil-fuel_power_station#Radioactive_trace_elements[/url])
Sorry, i think thats just a bad comparison... How many coal plants are in the US during that time period? 50? 100? 1000? i dont even know. During 1982 means all the coal plants combined output for a whole year in comparison to that one event that was how long?
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Sorry, i think thats just a bad comparison... How many coal plants are in the US during that time period? 50? 100? 1000? i dont even know. During 1982 means all the coal plants combined output for a whole year in comparison to that one event that was how long?
No it's not a bad comparison. It was just to illustrate that even a serious meltdown cannot be compared to the radiation of coal power. (and that's just the radiation, not the other bad pollution coal causes).
(http://www.the9billion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/death-rate-per-watts.jpg)
(source: http://www.the9billion.com/2011/03/24/death-rate-from-nuclear-power-vs-coal/ (http://www.the9billion.com/2011/03/24/death-rate-from-nuclear-power-vs-coal/) )
I don't like nuclear power but at the moment it's the best choice. I wish we could satisfy our needs with solar/wind etc., but it's just not enough.
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im more worried about the harm to to planet and future of humanity. not necessarily what i can get by breathing bad air. nuclear waste lasts way too long for any good. im thinking long term
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im more worried about the harm to to planet and future of humanity. not necessarily what i can get by breathing bad air. nuclear waste lasts way too long for any good. im thinking long term
Do you believe in global warming?
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im more worried about the harm to to planet and future of humanity. not necessarily what i can get by breathing bad air. nuclear waste lasts way too long for any good. im thinking long term
Do you believe in global warming?
No! But I believe in "Kony 2012 campaign"... ::) ;D ;D :o 8)
It is obvious that world is struggling for last energy resources...
We can see fall of moral standard because of that in powerful countries... Deja vu! Similar pre-world war condition...
Birocracy always moves in war direction... Why!? There is no problem in fact in energy, we have today excellent technology to switch it on appropriate resources...
They need our money! They need us to finance their "fictive" jobs... They don't produce anything, but they need money and materials things like every other man on this planet...
So your Cherokee burns 18 liters/100km, my Peugeot 9 liters... Your gasoline is twice cheaper than mine, but your kilometer (or mile) cost exactly like mine...
There is their another "tax" that they can finance their rich lives....
Stop drive you cars, they will rise taxes and oil price... That is obvious...
Just ask yourself: Who and how many people have jobs, good standard, material things, but does not produce anything or in any way not contributes to the production ?
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Fran, what youre in actual fact is saying, thanks to the red army, etc, we could have won this war without the US, right? and then what, Hitler replaced by Stalin! not a very promissing prospect, is it, to replace one evil with another.
Maybe not a nice prospect, but he could very well be right (especially if you pick up the narrative in 1944). I seem to recall reading years ago that one of the prime objectives of the invasion was to hold the line for the West against Russian influence.
I have no idea if Britain would have survived up to '44 without lease-lend (contrary to a previous comment, I believe we finally paid that off about 10 years ago ... contrast that with Germany which was allowed to default on its financial obligations at the time of reunification, when its wartime debts were forgiven, so that now Merkel can lecture Greece on financial responsibility).
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The problem is: all this rubbish, electric cars, biofuel, ecco friendly products, etc, etc, is that its paved the way for thousands of companies who are nothing but con-artists, charging three times the price for everything, just pop down to your local health-product store and see their prices for useless roots and so called health products.
Certain politicians are leading us to believe that the car, is resposible for just about everything, so they raise taxes for just about everything concerning cars. In Europe we drive on 95 and 98, octane which is so clean it cant be any cleaner. Its all BS, form a new type of cons. Thats all.
Nuclear power for example, is the cleanest way of industries, yet some politicians wants us to go back and use coal, wood, etc. :-\ and even worse, many people are actually swallowing this garbage. :D
That's like saying oil is just rubbish because have you seen the mark up on Lambourghini cars, or cotton is rubbish because of the mark-up on Versace fashions. Anything that capitalists can spin a profit on from gullible consumers they will take advantage of (remind me to photograph some ginseng to help them along), the fact that people are being taken advantage of says nothing about whether there is underlying value to the base product.
A study in New Scientist a year or two ago showed that renewable energy sources can easily replace oil as the main fuel source at a comparable cost. Of course that is horrendous for oil companies, who can be relied on to do everything to persuade people that a no-oil future is no future at all. What makes me laugh is that the oil companies manage to persuade so many people that they are purely altruistic and that "green energy" is being promoted by * profiteers. It's purely Orwellian, straight from the Ministry of Truth.
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Electric cars aren't the best option but I suppose the price of electricity will shoot up when we all have them.
Where is the electricity going to come from? It's the energy production method that matters, not the end-use. An electric car powered by electricity from an oil-fired power station will almost certainly consume more oil than a car with an internal combustion energy. A solar-powered one won't.
(sorry about these diverse posts, I'm still reading the thread)
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Fran, what youre in actual fact is saying, thanks to the red army, etc, we could have won this war without the US, right? and then what, Hitler replaced by Stalin! not a very promissing prospect, is it, to replace one evil with another.
Maybe not a nice prospect, but he could very well be right (especially if you pick up the narrative in 1944). I seem to recall reading years ago that one of the prime objectives of the invasion was to hold the line for the West against Russian influence.
I always thought that was one of the main objectives, the US helped against Nazi Germany, but really saved half of Europe from the Soviets. Everyone in Western Europe owes the US a huge debt of gratitude for that!
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Oh man! this is getting heavy! all this because some OP, wishes the oil price to escalde? KInow the biggest killer on earth? anybody? I will tell you, FOOD, and ofcourse the wrong food.
According to all health authorities, food, kill more people on a global scale then alcohol, smoking cars, etc, put together.
have a big-Mac and chips, very healthy.
BTW, Im not joking.
Or it could be smoking... I once saw the official health authority figures for deaths in Scotland from smoking or second-hand smoke and was surprised to discover, after a certain amount of number crunching to present the figures in a different way, that every single death in Scotland is a consequence of people smoking. But figures, of course, cannot like. Methodologies might, though.
Health stats sometimes strike me as being a bit like those experiments designed to show whether light is a particle or a wave: you always find whatever it is you wanted to look for.
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...or what you've been paid to "find".
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Fran, what youre in actual fact is saying, thanks to the red army, etc, we could have won this war without the US, right? and then what, Hitler replaced by Stalin! not a very promissing prospect, is it, to replace one evil with another.
Maybe not a nice prospect, but he could very well be right (especially if you pick up the narrative in 1944). I seem to recall reading years ago that one of the prime objectives of the invasion was to hold the line for the West against Russian influence.
I always thought that was one of the main objectives, the US helped against Nazi Germany, but really saved half of Europe from the Soviets. Everyone in Western Europe owes the US a huge debt of gratitude for that!
The funny thing is, that if Hitler had won then today everybody would be grateful to him for saving Europe from the monstrous Stalin, from that imperialist sponsor of terrorism Churchill and from the murderous war criminal Dowding (all of whom would have hanged). We would also be praising him for being tough on undesirables, thus maintaining law and order, for finally bringing a long era of peace by uniting Europe after centuries when there were European wars every 10 or 20 years and possibly for liberating half the world from British tyranny.
Don't believe me? Think about it - and remember that it is the victor who writes the history books, the news agenda and the school curriculum.
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Oh I do believe you. It is very easy to write the history books when you have eradicated all your critics.
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Oh I do believe you. It is very easy to write the history books when you have eradicated all your critics.
So true.
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That is true!
Probably what we know even about WW2 is not quite true...
Do you know what is main reason why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor?
How come that some smaller country can attack bigger force than itself?
Have you heard for pacific embargo?
There is many facts from history which become actual again when they won't able to affect to the current politics...
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im more worried about the harm to to planet and future of humanity. not necessarily what i can get by breathing bad air. nuclear waste lasts way too long for any good. im thinking long term
Do you believe in global warming?
Global warming is not a question of "believe".
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That is true!
Probably what we know even about WW2 is not quite true...
Do you know what is main reason why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor?
How come that some smaller country can attack bigger force than itself?
Have you heard for pacific embargo?
There is many facts from history which become actual again when they won't able to affect to the current politics...
If they are remembered.
But my main point was that if Hitler had won the great majority of his citizens would probably have been very happy with the way things had turned out. People have a tremendous capacity for adapting to and being happy under whatever circumstances they live under - as well as rationalising away or ignoring any inconvenient details that don't fit the desired narrative.
The comments about global warming are an excellent example. People like me think that those who dismiss it are dangerous idiots who are happy to sacrifice their children's future for their own convenience. They, on the other hand, think I am a gullible fool whose swallowing the lies of a corrupt, money-grubbing "green" industry (which some think may be part of a Commie plot to destroy capitalism, freedom and America). Given that we all have exactly the same facts available, how are we able to arrive at opposite conclusions? Clearly, it is because our understanding of reality can be turned on its head by indoctrination, education and psychological manipulation, regardless of what the facts tell us.
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But my main point was that if Hitler had won......
That sentence is another example of what you are talking about. We have been sold the N-A-Z-I-S basically being an expression of the will of one super human-ly evil man who controlled the whole thing from the center like a comic book super villain. It's all about the evil of a totalitarianism regime forcing itself on people.
The reality is that I can go into any pub and find a dozen jumped up little Hitlers who would love to be in a position to exterminate whole swathes of the population.
For me the lesson of Nazi Germany is almost the opposite, it is about the evil of naked majoritism. The evil of the mob imposing its will on those weaker than itself. True democracy if you will. There was an excellent episode of World at War where this was emphasized. The Gestapo was tiny, but once people realized they had free reign to inform and spy on neighbors they disliked and they were able to give their prejudices free expression the center didn't have to run things. The people did it all for them.
We are very lucky in Western Europe and the US to live in Democratic Republics rather than Athenian style true democracies, where laws are designed to protect rights of minorities, not just pander to the will of the mob.
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Nazzzzis were convinced that doing a good thing (like soviets, or today guess who), which means that through history the greatest evil is is committed in the name of goodness ... Also with adding of any of uncritical religions, we have rutted the path to collective suffering...
This is called the "illusion of freedom," regardless of the social system ...
Digression that I can see in your comments and conflicting attitudes is just impact of an old propaganda and some kind of public education in your lives in different countries ...
I lived and grew up on the border between two main political systems of 20st century, and what is worst at all, we know advantages and disadvantages of these two ideological camps...
Do you know the definition of communism, without googling? What was main "danger" which come from communism for your "freedom" in western countries...
And opposite, same question for "free capitalism"...
Many Hollywood movies (as a part of propaganda) were frightening Western world with communism (remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D). So its likely that people who were watching those movies still have an aversion but they don't know how to explain that...
You saw positive excitement and reactions of Westerners who participated on "Stock Photo Expo" (or named similar) in Moscow, after they returned ...
Perhaps they expected something completely different, from mentality to standard...
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Nazzzzis were convinced that doing a good thing (like soviets, or today guess who), which means that through history the greatest evil is is committed in the name of goodness ... Also with adding of any of uncritical religions, we have rutted the path to collective suffering...
This is called the "illusion of freedom," regardless of the social system ...
Digression that I can see in your comments and conflicting attitudes is just impact of an old propaganda and some kind of public education in your lives in different countries ...
I lived and grew up on the border between two main political systems of 20st century, and what is worst at all, we know advantages and disadvantages of these two ideological camps...
Do you know the definition of communism, without googling? What was main "danger" which come from communism for your "freedom" in western countries...
And opposite, same question for "free capitalism"...
Yes lets talk about history, non-people, ones that disappeared and things like that under the wonderful communists. :D
"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"
You don't need to win a war to master propaganda and revisionist history, it can be a way of life in some places. Changing history can be an ongoing work in progress.
The fate of tens of thousands of people only became known after the 1950s De-Stalinization. Then there are still the forced disappearances, without the right to correspondence.
I'm still sad that the US got into WW II when apparently we weren't needed at all. Could have saved many lives and huge amounts money just by staying at home. Yup, looks like the Russians had the entire situation under control and the allies didn't need the USA in their battle.
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Fran, what youre in actual fact is saying, thanks to the red army, etc, we could have won this war without the US, right? and then what, Hitler replaced by Stalin! not a very promissing prospect, is it, to replace one evil with another.
Maybe not a nice prospect, but he could very well be right (especially if you pick up the narrative in 1944). I seem to recall reading years ago that one of the prime objectives of the invasion was to hold the line for the West against Russian influence.
I have no idea if Britain would have survived up to '44 without lease-lend (contrary to a previous comment, I believe we finally paid that off about 10 years ago ... contrast that with Germany which was allowed to default on its financial obligations at the time of reunification, when its wartime debts were forgiven, so that now Merkel can lecture Greece on financial responsibility).
No, Britain nor Russia would have survived without the US intervention in WW2. These were the only two countries left, in Europe that is. Sure the red army did a tremendous job, Stalingrad, etc.
However, there is little doubt, Hitler, was his own worst enemy, his health was in a decline, suffering from syphillis, etc, the man was going mad and thereby made mad decisions. Take Staligrad as an example. What would have happend if fresh soldiers, clothing, weapons, food, etc, had been delivered to the German army? food for thaought, isnt it?
Same on the other side, the dessert wars, one of the reasons Monty clobbered Romel, had a lot to do with new armoured tanks being supplied by the Americans, light and fast tanks that didnt get stuck in the sand, in the end it turned out a battle of equipment.
The V1, the V2, imagine the outcome of the war if the Germans finally had developed the V3 ? and they were very, very close in doing so! most true experts on the WW2, agree that would have been the end of Europe, Russia and the US. Thats how close it was. :)
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For me the lesson of Nazi Germany is almost the opposite, it is about the evil of naked majoritism. The evil of the mob imposing its will on those weaker than itself. True democracy if you will. There was an excellent episode of World at War where this was emphasized. The Gestapo was tiny, but once people realized they had free reign to inform and spy on neighbors they disliked and they were able to give their prejudices free expression the center didn't have to run things. The people did it all for them.
We are very lucky in Western Europe and the US to live in Democratic Republics rather than Athenian style true democracies, where laws are designed to protect rights of minorities, not just pander to the will of the mob.
That's right and people should remember it when they hear their governments talking about spreading democracy all over the world. The Arab Spring has seen the Western Powers allying themselves with the Muslim Brotherhood against the evil dictators, just as they were allied with bin Laden's mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Russians. The "good guys" who have just won the elections in Egypt hands down are the same group who machine-gunned tourists in southern Egypt 15 years ago, before realising that this was not a productive approach to challenging Mubarak. In Libya, the semi-liberal Muslims from Benghazi (who chanted Allahu Akbar before during and after every firefight against Gaddafi) are now facing off against the hardline Muslims from the mountains, whom Qatar armed heavily during the rebellion with the eager support of France, Britain and the US. In Tunisia, according to Robert Fisk, a village not far from the capital proclaimed itself an autonomous muslim state and put on trial a shopkeeper who spread perversion by renting out mainstream Hollywood movies.
Borg's absolutely right, that everything bad that happens is done by people who believe they are doing good. God is always on your side, whether you've got "Gott mit Uns" on your buckle or wear a Star of David. To complicate things further, definitions of good and evil depend on the personal interests of the group you represent.
While discussing Russian disappearances and other evils of Communism, RacePhoto might like to bring in an American Indian to debate the wisdom and benevolence of US domestic policies in the 19th century, or a negro to discuss segregation in the US before, during and after WWII - with particular reference to the failure of the authorities to control racist gangs in the South (and the trade in those fascinating early 1900s postcards of the bodies of lynched Negroes). We all have blinkered views of our own national histories.
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Very wise words. I find it terrifying that the lessons learnt from the second world war seem to be all the wrong ones.
Instead of thinking these were ordinary people doing all these terrible things, we have been sold the narrative that it was the state doing it and all the ordinary people were against it. Maybe sold is the wrong word, as we have loved burying our heads in the sand and accepting the easy explanation. The result is that instead of guarding against all these impulses in ourselves we constantly look to our governments for fault. The next N-a-z-i/Stalinist regime won't start because laws have gradually gotten more and more strict. It will come when a government is overthrown by the mob who are making these claims against it. Tyrannies almost always start from the hoi polloi, from the ground up, not from the top down. We should be stopping at every opportunity to ask ourselves what right we have to impose our opinions on others, instead we end up being even more tribal and pointing the finger. More of the mob mentality that led to the N-a-z-i atrocities. I guess human nature will win out no matter what.
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People, evil does not exist!
The concept of "true evil" is only a tool for homogenization of religious population in the history ... That is a way of controlling with good old fear ...
Evil as a fact can only be characterized as a negative action to the specific person or group ...
Before evil as a fact, often precedes a misleading or fallacy due to some misfortunes suffered in the past, despair, ignorance, or propaganda for hidden interests under the auspices of the struggle for freedom, what often leads people in wrong conclusion that they are doing some good thing...
As a concept, evil is a paradox!
Just ask yourself: what evil will do when succeed to conquer all goodness ...? Will become good, or will destroy itself...
In global, evil is just an interest on expense of others, as BaldricksTrousers said!
Everything is relative!
What is hunter for his family, and what is for his prey?
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If you want to listen to the truth and have an hour and a half to do it...this is what you should watch. A fellow journalist and photographer has the pictures and the death numbers are much higher than previously stated.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o&t=1s[/youtube]
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People, evil does not exist!
The concept of "true evil" is only a tool for homogenization of religious population in the history ... That is a way of controlling with good old fear ...
Evil as a fact can only be characterized as a negative action to the specific person or group ...
Before evil as a fact, often precedes a misleading or fallacy due to some misfortunes suffered in the past, despair, ignorance, or propaganda for hidden interests under the auspices of the struggle for freedom, what often leads people in wrong conclusion that they are doing some good thing...
As a concept, evil is a paradox!
Just ask yourself: what evil will do when succeed to conquer all goodness ...? Will become good, or will destroy itself...
In global, evil is just an interest on expense of others, as BaldricksTrousers said!
Everything is relative!
What is hunter for his family, and what is for his prey?
Not sure why you were complaining so much about the bomb that killed those children in Iraq then. They were just "prey", not even that, just collateral damage. Nothing evil about killing children so don't worry about it (?)
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Not sure why you were complaining so much about the bomb that killed those children in Iraq then. They were just "prey", not even that, just collateral damage. Nothing evil about killing children so don't worry about it (?)
Ha! You told everything what was my intention with this topic...
I am not talking here about "Evil West" or something like that, as some people had wanted to reverse my thoughts on this topic...
I just want to encourage gentleness, good criticism, knowledge and all of that what promotes goodness,everything opposite to misapprehension and insensitivity.
The story about evil is often just a base for a another bad reaction in the name of goodness...
Proof is in documentary film from my first post...
They asked Talibans what is main reason why they are fighting for...
Answer was: for freedom and goodness, against tyranny...
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The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting
Charles Bukowski
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If you want to listen to the truth and have an hour and a half to do it...this is what you should watch. A fellow journalist and photographer has the pictures and the death numbers are much higher than previously stated.
[youtube][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiCXb1Nhd1o&t=1s[/url][/youtube]
Thanks for the great link!
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Another good documentary giving a broader picture...
THE CRISIS OF CIVILIZATION : Full Movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMgOTQ7D_lk#ws)
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(remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D).
Scholarly research! This explains a lot of your posts.
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(remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D).
Scholarly research! This explains a lot of your posts.
What do you mean with this?
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(remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D).
Scholarly research! This explains a lot of your posts.
What do you mean with this?
I guess that he's laughing at your sources ;)
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(remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D).
Scholarly research! This explains a lot of your posts.
What do you mean with this?
I guess that he's laughing at your sources ;)
So, as you can see in that post, I am also laughing at my source...
But if you look at the whole palette of movies, the situation regarding "film propaganda" isn't any more so humoristic ...
Rambo 3 is certainly something different than Italian documentary mentioned in my first post...
I am sure that movie was little part of propaganda in that time... Why today, there is no new movies about western alliance with the Taliban from that time?
This period of human history is no more interesting or what? We know that movies about ww2 are still making...
I recently watched some a bit older movie "Hostel" in Tarantino's production ... In which American tourists were killed in a brutal manner,because of greed for money of eastern European mafia...
The story is happening in Slovakia, after "the war" during 90-ties ... ??? ??? ???..
In Slovakia, there was no war since WW2!
That is veeery peaceful country with much bigger security level than in many European or American countries...
That tells you how big is "competence" of great Hollywood directors and scenarists...
Or maybe this is part of the "travel guide" for touristic industry...
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I'm still sad that the US got into WW II when apparently we weren't needed at all. Could have saved many lives and huge amounts money just by staying at home. Yup, looks like the Russians had the entire situation under control and the allies didn't need the USA in their battle.
I'm sad they didn't get into WW II earlier. And yes, they saved many lives and huge amounts of money by staying at home so long. They just spent time picking the right side (US was very pro-n-a-z-i before the war) and then waited, waited and waited for the red army and brits and others to wear out the german army.
US help was significant, but not as big as they seem to teach in the schools in the US. If you want to compare "effort" measured in casualties here is a quick comparison: US Casualties 418,500 people, 0.32% of the population ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties) ). Even in just the battle of Stalingrad died more russians (478,741 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad) ).
US help was a death blow, but a much needed one, because n-a-z-i-s did't seem to be good at surrendering.
The problem with the current US politics is that they haven't had a real total war on their own territory in ages (I don't count the civil war here because it was their "internal problem"). US people don't generally have any clue how an invasion by a foreign nation feels (or a real threat of invasion), because they don't have any grandpas telling about it.
Already many countries are faced at the same direction and the history will repeat itself.
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(remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D).
Scholarly research! This explains a lot of your posts.
What do you mean with this?
I guess that he's laughing at your sources ;)
So, as you can see in that post, I am also laughing at my source...
But if you look at the whole palette of movies, the situation regarding "film propaganda" isn't any more so humoristic ...
Rambo 3 is certainly something different than Italian documentary mentioned in my first post...
I am sure that movie was little part of propaganda in that time... Why today, there is no new movies about western alliance with the Taliban from that time?
This period of human history is no more interesting or what? We know that movies about ww2 are still making...
I recently watched some a bit older movie "Hostel" in Tarantino's production ... In which American tourists were killed in a brutal manner,because of greed for money of eastern European mafia...
The story is happening in Slovakia, after "the war" during 90-ties ... ??? ??? ???..
In Slovakia, there was no war since WW2!
That is veeery peaceful country with much bigger security level than in many European or American countries...
That tells you how big is "competence" of great Hollywood directors and scenarists...
Or maybe this is part of the "travel guide" for touristic industry...
Yeah I watched that movie years ago, it's pathetic how they see the rest of the world, they (characters in the movie) bought the whole hotel, champagne and lobsters in abundance for a dollar. Yes, a dollar. And they weren't trying to be sarcastic, satiric or anything. They portrayed the whole country a lot worse than it was even behind the iron curtain. And OTOH their latest war movies almost make you want to enlist in the US Army, so much superlatives, heroism surrounding their soldiers ;D
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(remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D).
Scholarly research! This explains a lot of your posts.
What do you mean with this?
I guess that he's laughing at your sources ;)
Bingo!
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(remember Rambo 3 and his Taliban allies ;D).
Scholarly research! This explains a lot of your posts.
What do you mean with this?
I guess that he's laughing at your sources ;)
So, as you can see in that post, I am also laughing at my source...
But if you look at the whole palette of movies, the situation regarding "film propaganda" isn't any more so humoristic ...
Rambo 3 is certainly something different than Italian documentary mentioned in my first post...
I am sure that movie was little part of propaganda in that time... Why today, there is no new movies about western alliance with the Taliban from that time?
This period of human history is no more interesting or what? We know that movies about ww2 are still making...
I recently watched some a bit older movie "Hostel" in Tarantino's production ... In which American tourists were killed in a brutal manner,because of greed for money of eastern European mafia...
The story is happening in Slovakia, after "the war" during 90-ties ... ??? ??? ???..
In Slovakia, there was no war since WW2!
That is veeery peaceful country with much bigger security level than in many European or American countries...
That tells you how big is "competence" of great Hollywood directors and scenarists...
Or maybe this is part of the "travel guide" for touristic industry...
Yeah I watched that movie years ago, it's pathetic how they see the rest of the world, they (characters in the movie) bought the whole hotel, champagne and lobsters in abundance for a dollar. Yes, a dollar. And they weren't trying to be sarcastic, satiric or anything. They portrayed the whole country a lot worse than it was even behind the iron curtain. And OTOH their latest war movies almost make you want to enlist in the US Army, so much superlatives, heroism surrounding their soldiers ;D
Its called the entertainment industry for a reason. Its purpose is to make money, not accurate historical documentaries.
Yes, Americans like to feel good about themselves and will pay money to watch films where the Americans are the good guys and always win.
Don't go around using movies made for entertainment purposes as true of how the film makers or the Americans see themselves. Take it for what it is. Entertainment.
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Maybe that is just entertainment for you, but someone like children or teenagers constantly receive "message in the bottle"...
During 90-ties in conflict time in ex. YU, you could see many young men with black tape around the head (maybe inspired by the "Rambo" movies) ...
So, that wasn't only for "American" purposes...
Today also, you can see another type of evolved movies, produced by Tom Hanks and Clint Eastwood, which show ugliest side of war, shocking with brutality, collective suffering, sacrifice of little men for someone else's goal, etc. This is definitely a shift on better, this shows new era of anti-war populations around the world...
P.S.
Here you can see results of "Rambo" films on young men... They go in foreign wars with expectation of events equal to 3D war movies, but...!
Battle for Haditha (2007)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0870211/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0870211/)
I just want to say that the movie industry is not as harmless as it seems...
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You know that Battle for Haditha is a movie not a documentary right?
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Its called the entertainment industry for a reason. Its purpose is to make money, not accurate historical documentaries.
Yes, Americans like to feel good about themselves and will pay money to watch films where the Americans are the good guys and always win.
Don't go around using movies made for entertainment purposes as true of how the film makers or the Americans see themselves. Take it for what it is. Entertainment.
Yes, you can call it entertainment or whatever, but movies will affect the viewer in a subtle way even if the viewer knows it's only fiction and entertainment.
PS. The best war movies: Das Boot http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082096/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082096/) Der Untergang http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/)
Yes movies like Saving Private Ryan looks good and has great battle scenes, but it's still stupid heroic action crap.
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I wouldn't critcize Borg's sources at all in the first instance, he was citing Rambo 3 to show how public opinion in the US has shifted. A great source for that, the reason I made my comment was that I know Battle for Haditha is a mockumentary and that is made to look like a documentary. It seemed to be cited as showing the true emotions of the soldiers during in the incident, when in fact it is just a scripted film like any other.
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You know that Battle for Haditha is a movie not a documentary right?
Yep! But certainly is more realistic than many war movies in the same time... I think that this movie will not motivate any teenager to give his life for his country (what a paradox, what is your country without your life, from your point of view..?. ::))
Can we notice now that movie is not always just an entertainment ?
Its called the entertainment industry for a reason. Its purpose is to make money, not accurate historical documentaries.
Yes, Americans like to feel good about themselves and will pay money to watch films where the Americans are the good guys and always win.
Don't go around using movies made for entertainment purposes as true of how the film makers or the Americans see themselves. Take it for what it is. Entertainment.
Yes, you can call it entertainment or whatever, but movies will affect the viewer in a subtle way even if the viewer knows it's only fiction and entertainment.
PS. The best war movies: Das Boot [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082096/[/url] ([url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082096/[/url]) Der Untergang [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/[/url] ([url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/[/url])
Yes movies like Saving Private Ryan looks good and has great battle scenes, but it's still stupid heroic action crap.
Good point and excellent choice...
Yes! "Saving private Ryan" is good film in production matter, but as you say another heroic story... But I think is step forward... Especially "Letters from Ivo Jima"
Serial "Band of Brothers" is better story, also heroic but with many examples of stupidity of war...
P.S.
I am not talking only about the American audience, I'm talking about all audience which can be motivated with war desire...
There is no big differences in kids age between 15 and 18 years ...
But 18 years old kid offically can carry uniform and lethal gun...
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A great documentary about the basis of today's economy and consumerism Pyramids of Waste (Full Length - English Subtitles) aka '' The Lightbulb Conspiracy '' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1xt4nEvipg#ws)
This is a c/p description: Consumerism = 1. Advertisement - 2. Planned Obsolescence - 3. Credit :
These 3 stages of modern business are worth noting regarding the promulgation of today's world wide consumer system which is presently stripping the natural wealth of the planet for all inhabitants, including man.
If the human race will survive, our ancestors (in a hundred years or so) won't be able to answer a simple question; how is it possible we were so * dumb and shortsighted, blinded by greed really.
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^^^^ @ WUT, maybe you had better find a different line of work then because microstock images are used mostly for ADVERTISING.
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^^^^ @ WUT, maybe you had better find a different line of work then because microstock images are used mostly for ADVERTISING.
I thought about that, that planned obsolescence is good for our business. But that doesn't matter if you look at the big picture and if you're not that shortsighted. What are you going to do when all resources will be gone? Eat the money you've made of off MS (even if it were millions)?
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^^^^ @ WUT, maybe you had better find a different line of work then because microstock images are used mostly for ADVERTISING.
I thought about that, that planned obsolescence is good for our business. But that doesn't matter if you look at the big picture and if you're not that shortsighted. What are you going to do when all resources will be gone? Eat the money you've made of off MS (even if it were millions)?
I didn't say that planned obsolescence is good. I only was pointing out that our participation in it is hypocritical; if we are railing against it on these forums.
As they say, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. As microstockers we are part of the problem.
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^^^^ @ WUT, maybe you had better find a different line of work then because microstock images are used mostly for ADVERTISING.
I thought about that, that planned obsolescence is good for our business. But that doesn't matter if you look at the big picture and if you're not that shortsighted. What are you going to do when all resources will be gone? Eat the money you've made of off MS (even if it were millions)?
I didn't say that planned obsolescence is good. I only was pointing out that our participation in it is hypocritical; if we are railing against it on these forums.
As they say, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. As microstockers we are part of the problem.
That's, unfortunately, correct
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^^^^ @ WUT, maybe you had better find a different line of work then because microstock images are used mostly for ADVERTISING.
I thought about that, that planned obsolescence is good for our business. But that doesn't matter if you look at the big picture and if you're not that shortsighted. What are you going to do when all resources will be gone? Eat the money you've made of off MS (even if it were millions)?
I didn't say that planned obsolescence is good. I only was pointing out that our participation in it is hypocritical; if we are railing against it on these forums.
As they say, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. As microstockers we are part of the problem.
That's, unfortunately, correct
Actually - Charles Rosner, a renowned advertiser and marketer from the 60s through the 90s, actually wrote "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" for VISTA as a recruitment slogan in 1967. Subtle difference. I remember it from protest mantras of some sort.
Better yet, he might have failed because I have no clue what VISTA was back then? Health care reform, I don't have a clue.