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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: lola on May 01, 2011, 22:10
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Just came on the tv. They killed him in Pakistan - he was living just outside the capital of Islamabad. The US has his body...
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Yup, logged on to Facebook and all my friend's status updates were about it.
I've been sitting in front of my screen now for quite some time wilh a silly grin on my face.
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Now we just wait on the circular event to come back around. The new leader avenges him..then probably gets hunted and killed. Then a new leader avenges that last one..so on and so forth.
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Now we just wait on the circular event to come back around. The new leader avenges him..then probably gets hunted and killed. Then a new leader avenges that last one..so on and so forth.
Until there are no more 'leaders' to be had because they realize that taking on that role is a death sentence.
What would you have us do, sit quietly on our hands and hope everything will just go away?
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Wow, I was sure this is some kind of a joke.
You made made my. Hell, my month.
:)
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Now we just wait on the circular event to come back around. The new leader avenges him..then probably gets hunted and killed. Then a new leader avenges that last one..so on and so forth.
Until there are no more 'leaders' to be had because they realize that taking on that role is a death sentence.
What would you have us do, sit quietly on our hands and hope everything will just go away?
Did not say anything like that. Just stating the possibility. I would love to do a preemptive solution but of course we have to keep up appearances to the world. I had to search cars for bombs from old Binnys threats back in 90 - 92.
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^^^^^
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying :)
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It was great when I heard this news but I really wonder why he wasn't killed years ago and if it will make much difference in the long term? I wont feel like celebrating until the middle east problems are sorted out and the terrorism threat has really subsided. It isn't like killing the leader of a country, Al-Qaeda are scattered all over the world and I don't think they are going to stop because of this.
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I say lets wrap it up now. Stop occupying foreign countries (then there will be no need to try to kill American soldiers ), give back the oil fields to the Iraqis so they can lift themselves out of poverty and try to live with themselves. bin Laden has said his war on the west was in response to the instillation of American Military Bases in the holy land (Saudi Arabia) after the first gulf war, well, they were removed years ago so lets just go home and try to work out our own problems. Forget about “the white man's burden” for now. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden)
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The body has already been buried according to Islamic Law . . . . . . conspiracies anyone? ;D
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So what!
Will come another Osama...
Problem is western politics, not in some quasi leader somewhere in desert...
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I'm a bit skeptical about this. Why no official photos released? (Osama didn't sign a model release ? :D )
Why such a hurry?
This reminds me about the death of Hitler. The soviets found dead Hitler and set his corpse on fire without even trying to collect evidence. And there still seems to be some debate if he fled to South America or other place.
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After U.S. troops killed Osama bin Laden in Abotabad, north of Islamabad in Pakistan, American officials announced that the body of al-Qaeda leaders was thrown into the sea. In accordance with Islamic tradition
Oh my God... Who is crazy here, we or someone else!!! :P :P :P
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BTW. That's a long way to the sea, about a thousand miles. They seem to have trough a lot to "bury the body in the sea"
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Buried at sea . . . . . . . really, because it can't be a site of reverence for the true believers . . . . or . . . . . .
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They had to throw his body into the sea ;) The USA is just so desperate to produce something that gets the peons cheering. It was probably the 'northern alliance' once again that produced the body of someone with a big beard that looks like an arab, beause they needed some cash. They have been doing this since the start of the war on 'al quade', which of course doesn't exist.... so whenever they needed some money from the americans, they just captured anyone who looks like the "bright amarican soldier's" stereotype for an islamist, usually just dirt poor rural people who never had any papers.
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The "thrown at sea" thing looks fishy to me. Maybe he's been dead froç natural causes long ago?
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Al-qaeda was founded in 80s by CIA in Afghanistan to fight against russian invasion. So there is no real terrorist organisation like Al-qaeda - its just all media crap. Most so called terorrist are logic result of the US invasions and takeover of independent business and countries. Regarding results - US pays several times more for "war against terrorism" then it pays for cancer or heart-attack problems research, while "terorrist" kill less ppl then are killed in cars every day in US only... isn't it silly? There are more ppl killed by heart atack from obesity, overfeeding and bad lifestyle every DAY in US then "terorrists" kill in the whole year worldwide...
There was exactly NO terorrism in Iraq before US invasion and Taliban in Afghanistan banned nearly all opium production - after US invasion, Iraq became extremely dangerous country and Afghanistan is producing most of worlds heroine. What a coincidence... ;)
Bin Laden was not seen for at least decade and they suddenly kill him and bury the body into the sea. And they suppose ppl will trust this story? OMG!
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I've been out of the loop with the news for a while, is this something to do with the those lovely Mujahideen boys we've been paying for in Afghanistan? (see Rambo III)
ETA * basti beat me to it!
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The "thrown at sea" thing looks fishy to me. Maybe he's been dead froç natural causes long ago?
That would be a good explanation. I don't think the US government would like to admit they have failed in the terrorist hunt.
IF Osama would have died from natural causes they would still have 1) Dead Osama 2) Dead Osama's DNA
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There are more ppl killed by heart atack from obesity, overfeeding and bad lifestyle every DAY in US then "terorrists" kill in the whole year worldwide...
I agree with your post, but the sentence above made me cringe. I don't think anyone has said that terrorists kill more people than "natural" causes? And everyone has to die sometime, for one reason or another, even if you stop eating burgers you might live 10 years longer but eventually you will still die.
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What a suspicious lot you are. It's not iStock we're talking about, you know :) If I was the US I would want the body permanently out of the way ASAP before it can cause any more trouble.
The Taliban also said he was killed today and they have always been quite open about their side's "martyrs" so there's no reason to suppose he's been dead for a while.
I'm so glad that the US is taking care to ensure he has a proper Islamic burial to help him on his way to his 72 virgins. Wasn't he always anxious to ensure that his victims were treated according to their religious rites? It's right to reciprocate.
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They were showing a photo on Sky TV when I turned the TV on at 7am this morning.
There's a photo here that looks like it was taken from the TV screen. Don't look if your squeamish. It looks like him but he looks a lot younger than I thought he would, the photo has been dropped from the TV, perhaps because they have doubts that it's real?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/ (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/)
edit:- looks like a photoshop job. http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png (http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png)
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They were showing a photo on Sky TV when I turned the TV on at 7am this morning.
There's a photo here that looks like it was taken from the TV screen. Don't look if your squeamish. It looks like him but he looks a lot younger than I thought he would, the photo has been dropped from the TV, perhaps because they have doubts that it's real?
[url]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/[/url] ([url]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/[/url])
edit:- looks like a photoshop job. [url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url] ([url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url])
there are 'bout 150 million ppl in the world who would look like that in that condition...
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there are 'bout 150 million ppl in the world who would look like that in that condition...
Yes, but it is still clearly just a photoshop job.
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They were showing a photo on Sky TV when I turned the TV on at 7am this morning.
There's a photo here that looks like it was taken from the TV screen. Don't look if your squeamish. It looks like him but he looks a lot younger than I thought he would, the photo has been dropped from the TV, perhaps because they have doubts that it's real?
[url]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/[/url] ([url]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/[/url])
edit:- looks like a photoshop job. [url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url] ([url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url])
Hey, you are right. Here are two crops next to each other (a little contrast added) . . . . just look at the highlights in each image, they are exactly the same. Taken from http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png (http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png)
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OK OK let's not get too excited
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake)
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there are 'bout 150 million ppl in the world who would look like that in that condition...
Yes, but it is still clearly just a photoshop job.
I see that, that's not my point. Probably the whole thing is fake, and we will never-ever know.
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This is fishy as. Anyone who doesn't question the US government in this case has a screw loose. Come on, Osama was supposedly hiding for 10 years and he pops up in a major city in a mansion? They found him in this mansion June 2010 and only just killed him? He was shot in the head by a single bullet and no American was killed or injured, yet one of the four helicopters was shot down from the ground and crashed into the compound causing it to burn down? They claim they have DNA evidence that it was Osama Bin Laden? When did they gather this evidence? Before or after the compound was burnt down? But they still managed to apparently withdraw Osama’s body from the burning wreckage? They bury his body at sea in such a hurry? They apparently shoot this man in the head but respect him enough to give him an Islamic burial?
I don’t often get into conspiracy theories but nothing of this adds up at all. I’m betting Osama hasn’t been seen for a decade or so and the US has no clue whether he is alive or dead. The US economy is under turmoil and they can’t afford to keep their troops in Afghanistan any longer so they need to come up with a body whether it’s real or not. They would look pretty stupid having to admit that they’ve been trying to find and kill someone who possibly isn’t even alive... for over a decade! The majority of Americans are gullible and will believe Obama’s story. I'm not having a go at Americans because it wouldn't be too difficult for Obama to convince them that they 'got him' when so much emotion is involved. To top things off, Obama gets to be a hero and elected for another term :)
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http://www.somethingawful.com/d/photoshop-phriday/bin-ladens-mountain.php?page=2 (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/photoshop-phriday/bin-ladens-mountain.php?page=2)
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I agree that there's something fishy about it, but there always is with these things. The true details are always murky in covert ops.
I don't think the basic fact that he's dead (or that the US thinks he is) can be disputed. Al-Quaida would have kicked up a stink by now if he wasn't.
The political stink that finding him living it up in suburban Islamabad causes also makes me think it's all pretty much genuine
Anyone that thinks the Pakistan authorities didn't know he was there (very close to a military training academy) is crazy.
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I agree that there's something fishy about it, but there always is with these things. The true details are always murky in covert ops.
I don't think the basic fact that he's dead (or that the US thinks he is) can be disputed. Al-Quaida would have kicked up a stink by now if he wasn't.
The political stink that finding him living it up in suburban Islamabad causes also makes me think it's all pretty much genuine
Anyone that thinks the Pakistan authorities didn't know he was there (very close to a military training academy) is crazy.
It all sounds like propaganda to me. Perhaps the US government conveniently put fake Osama there as an excuse to go to war with Pakistan to retrieve nuclear weapons. That's what I think is happening.
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On a side note, the most astonishing thing about all of this is that twitter has not crashed ;D
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If he were buried on land the location would become a shrine for all of Al Qaeda. Dumping his body into the ocean was the right move. I'm sure we'll get more proof in the coming days that it was actually him.
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If he were buried on land the location would become a shrine for all of Al Qaeda. Dumping his body into the ocean was the right move. I'm sure we'll get more proof in the coming days that it was actually him.
Sure they could have dumped his body in the sea but what was the hurry?
Proof? What proof? How will we get proof now? We have no body, the mansion has been conveniently burnt down. The video footage they've just shown on CNN of the aftermath seems dodgy. They claimed it was a 40 minute firefight but the room doesn't look messed up enough. They're currently gathering DNA evidence? lol, come on! Did the US government at some stage manage to retrieve one of Osama's pubes from under a rock in a cave in Afghanistan back in 2001 in order to make that match? Any 'proof' they come up with now will most likely be doctored like everything else seems to be.
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They were showing a photo on Sky TV when I turned the TV on at 7am this morning.
There's a photo here that looks like it was taken from the TV screen. Don't look if your squeamish. It looks like him but he looks a lot younger than I thought he would, the photo has been dropped from the TV, perhaps because they have doubts that it's real?
[url]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/[/url] ([url]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-photo-of-al-qaeda-leader-s-body-115875-23101910/[/url])
edit:- looks like a photoshop job. [url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url] ([url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url])
Hey, you are right. Here are two crops next to each other (a little contrast added) . . . . just look at the highlights in each image, they are exactly the same. Taken from [url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url] ([url]http://i.imgur.com/dSuE6.png[/url])
They removed the photo now. Shame they didn't check it out properly before putting it on the website and showing it on TV. It didn't look right but I suppose that's what happens with 24/7/365 news.
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If he were buried on land the location would become a shrine for all of Al Qaeda. Dumping his body into the ocean was the right move. I'm sure we'll get more proof in the coming days that it was actually him.
Sure they could have dumped his body in the sea but what was the hurry?
Proof? What proof? How will we get proof now? We have no body, the mansion has been conveniently burnt down. The video footage they've just shown on CNN of the aftermath seems dodgy. They claimed it was a 40 minute firefight but the room doesn't look messed up enough. They're currently gathering DNA evidence? lol, come on! Did the US government at some stage manage to retrieve one of Osama's pubes from under a rock in a cave in Afghanistan back in 2001 in order to make that match? Any 'proof' they come up with now will most likely be doctored like everything else seems to be.
I think they have DNA from other family members. There's no way it wasn't him, I think conspiracy theories are 99.9% made up and usually have much less evidence than the truth.
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If he were buried on land the location would become a shrine for all of Al Qaeda. Dumping his body into the ocean was the right move. I'm sure we'll get more proof in the coming days that it was actually him.
Sure they could have dumped his body in the sea but what was the hurry?
Proof? What proof? How will we get proof now? We have no body, the mansion has been conveniently burnt down. The video footage they've just shown on CNN of the aftermath seems dodgy. They claimed it was a 40 minute firefight but the room doesn't look messed up enough. They're currently gathering DNA evidence? lol, come on! Did the US government at some stage manage to retrieve one of Osama's pubes from under a rock in a cave in Afghanistan back in 2001 in order to make that match? Any 'proof' they come up with now will most likely be doctored like everything else seems to be.
I think they have DNA from other family members. There's no way it wasn't him, I think conspiracy theories are 99.9% made up and usually have much less evidence than the truth.
As is anything that comes from a polititian's mouth.
"There's no way it wasn't him".
So apart from Obama's word, what else makes you believe this with conviction?
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If he weren't dead he would pop up in a video three days from now, waggling and admonishing finger at the US and discussing the headlines. Obama would look a complete fool if that happened. Ergo, he's dead. Whether he went down fighting or got a bullet after being captured (I can't imagine they wanted to put him on trial) is anybody's guess.
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OMG, people! It only just happened and it was a covert op. Give it time and more details will come out.
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If he weren't dead he would pop up in a video three days from now, waggling and admonishing finger at the US and discussing the headlines. Obama would look a complete fool if that happened. Ergo, he's dead. Whether he went down fighting or got a bullet after being captured (I can't imagine they wanted to put him on trial) is anybody's guess.
Not if he was already dead. Remember this?
http://www.infowars.com/red-alert-government-had-osama-bin-laden-frozen-for-years/ (http://www.infowars.com/red-alert-government-had-osama-bin-laden-frozen-for-years/)
Another interesting fact they've just revealed on CNN is that they found a bunch of computers with their harddrives ripped out. Yet they had no internet. I'm guessing bin laden was a hardcore vector illustrator. It's quite possible he was planning to upload his portfolio on iStock before the Navy Seals came along and not only shot him down but also his life long dream.
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OMG, people! It only just happened and it was a covert op. Give it time and more details will come out.
yaeh, all kinds of details that will make this a total mess. It's useless, we'll never know who the corpse is / what happened. NO way.
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OMG, people! It only just happened and it was a covert op. Give it time and more details will come out.
Yeah, but you can't actually trust the details. Remember the woman soldier who was captured by Saddam and after she was released full details of her heroism were released, only she spoiled it all by dismissing it as nonsense. Or the heroic way that US sporting hero died fighting Taliban warriors in Afghanistan, until they were forced to admit he was accidentally shot by one of his comrades.
The story that eventually comes out will be designed to fit whatever fantasy is considered most appropriate by the Pentagon/White House, without regard for whether or not it's true.
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Don't forget to buy your t-shirt:
http://www.clutchtees.com/Obama-Said-Knock-You-Out-T-Shirts.html (http://www.clutchtees.com/Obama-Said-Knock-You-Out-T-Shirts.html)
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Another interesting fact they've just revealed on CNN is that they found a bunch of computers with their harddrives ripped out. Yet they had no internet.
So everyone who has a computer *has* to have internet?
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OMG, people! It only just happened and it was a covert op. Give it time and more details will come out.
Yeah, but you can't actually trust the details. Remember the woman soldier who was captured by Saddam and after she was released full details of her heroism were released, only she spoiled it all by dismissing it as nonsense. Or the heroic way that US sporting hero died fighting Taliban warriors in Afghanistan, until they were forced to admit he was accidentally shot by one of his comrades.
You are right. TWO instances of spin during 10 years of war most definitely proves that everything else is a lie. ::)
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You people remind me of "The Birthers" who don't believe Obama was born in the US. No matter what evidence will be presented, you won't believe it. You can be called "The Deathers". LOL
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Another interesting fact they've just revealed on CNN is that they found a bunch of computers with their harddrives ripped out. Yet they had no internet.
So everyone who has a computer *has* to have internet?
Perhaps you missed the rest of the joke?
In any case though, I find it odd that the huge mansion had no internet and no phone yet all deliveries arrived by courier. I can't imagine a terrorist running his operation that way ... maybe he sent for supplies via courier pigeon lol
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Perhaps you missed the rest of the joke?
In any case though, I find it odd that the huge mansion had no internet and no phone yet all deliveries arrived by courier. I can't imagine a terrorist running his operation that way ... maybe he sent for supplies via courier pigeon lol
Nah, I didn't miss the joke.
There's a lot of things I can't imagine, doesn't mean they aren't real or didn't happen. For instance, I can't imagine killing millions of Jews or people flying planes into buildings. I'm sure Bin Laden know the minuted he connected to the internet he would be tracked. I'm not surprised at all at the low-tech approach. And who even knows what kind of active role he was even playing he was even playing anymore.
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You people remind me of "The Birthers" who don't believe Obama was born in the US. No matter what evidence will be presented, you won't believe it. You can be called "The Deathers". LOL
That's because they can't produce real evidence. Even if they come up with DNA evidence, who investigated it? The US governement. There's no point comparing us to conspiracy theorists. I don't normally get into them at all but this story just does not gel in any way. They buried the body immediately and got rid of the only REAL evidence. They had to have known that the people would want to see it. They took video footage of the room afterwards so why didn't they take it while the body was still there? The mansion was burning uncontrollably yet the room didn't look like it was effected in any way by the fire. The fight lasted 40 minutes but the condition of the room didn't indicate this.
There's nothing wrong with questioning something that sounds fishy. I find it odd that people believe what politians, governments and the media say unconditionally... even when things obviously look odd or doctored.
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Perhaps you missed the rest of the joke?
In any case though, I find it odd that the huge mansion had no internet and no phone yet all deliveries arrived by courier. I can't imagine a terrorist running his operation that way ... maybe he sent for supplies via courier pigeon lol
Nah, I didn't miss the joke.
There's a lot of things I can't imagine, doesn't mean they aren't real or didn't happen. For instance, I can't imagine killing millions of Jews or people flying planes into buildings. I'm sure Bin Laden know the minuted he connected to the internet he would be tracked. I'm not surprised at all at the low-tech approach. And who even knows what kind of active role he was even playing he was even playing anymore.
You didn't have to imagine that, you saw that and it's brought on emotions. This is why the governement can say anything you want to hear about OBL and you'll believe it.. because you want to believe it.
As for being tracked, how would he be tracked? According to Obama, it was the lack of having the internet and phone that made them look suspicious.
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You didn't have to image that, you saw that and it's brought on emotions.
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I didn't see millions of Jews being killed and there are those that dispute the entire holocaust.
How can they keep the lid on everyone who was involved? Surely at some point things would be leaked. What about the Navy Seals that participated in the operation? The people in the Pakistani government who aided in locating him? What about all the intelligence officers involved in the op? It's not like it's just one person making this stuff up.
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You are right. TWO instances of spin during 10 years of war most definitely proves that everything else is a lie. ::)
No, it just proves the source is unreliable, especially when very high profile cases are involved. And those were two off the top of my head.
And, btw, I'm not saying he's not dead, just that I won't trust any of the details when "the full story" is unveiled.
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We'll have to wait for Donald Trump to call a press conference demanding to see the death certificate.
I never thought I would rejoice in someone's death, but I have to admit I jumped out of my seat when I first saw.
Makes the whole religious debate interesting doesn't it; one would expect he is now burning in hell, or has he risen to glory? (Wasn't he doing it for the Qur'an?)
On another note: I just keyed the word "why" into bing and it autopopulates "why was bin laden burried at sea" popped up as the exptected question - definitely a hot topic this morning.
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Another interesting fact they've just revealed on CNN is that they found a bunch of computers with their harddrives ripped out. Yet they had no internet.
So everyone who has a computer *has* to have internet?
Perhaps you missed the rest of the joke?
In any case though, I find it odd that the huge mansion had no internet and no phone yet all deliveries arrived by courier. I can't imagine a terrorist running his operation that way ... maybe he sent for supplies via courier pigeon lol
what operation? Btw that's how a wanted man lives, since the internet is pretty much monitored realtime, all the time, since the installment of splitters and so are phones.
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You are right. TWO instances of spin during 10 years of war most definitely proves that everything else is a lie. ::)
No, it just proves the source is unreliable, especially when very high profile cases are involved. And those were two off the top of my head.
And, btw, I'm not saying he's not dead, just that I won't trust any of the details when "the full story" is unveiled.
Those two stories were out of the Bush administration, though.
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You didn't have to image that, you saw that and it's brought on emotions.
I didn't see millions of Jews being killed and there are those that dispute the entire holocaust.
How can they keep the lid on everyone who was involved? Surely at some point things would be leaked. What about the Navy Seals that participated in the operation? The people in the Pakistani government who aided in locating him? What about all the intelligence officers involved in the op? It's not like it's just one person making this stuff up.
I don't think we should compare the holocaust with one elusive man that's been underground for a decade who the governement couldn't find in all that time.
Everyone involved? Who was involved apart from the US government? Are you saying the US government aren't equiped to set this up? It was just raiding one property. As for the Pakistani government aiding the US in finding him, that's the story the US have given. They were on the ground at the time but they weren't directly involved and were clueless before the attack. On CNN they said:
"A senior administration official told reporters that U.S. President Barack Obama’s administration did not share intelligence gathered before the attack on bin Laden in Pakistan with any other country – including Pakistan – for security reasons."
http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/was-pakistan-involved-in-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-long-term-interests-of-u-s-hopes-so/ (http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/was-pakistan-involved-in-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-long-term-interests-of-u-s-hopes-so/)
I just choose not to believe everything I hear or read from governements and politicians whose job is to lie.
They just claimed that they now have DNA evidence but what would anyone expect them to say? "oh sorry, we killed some random unknown... oops"? I don't think so.
They got rid of the only evidence they was real. If in fact they killed anyone at all. Also, they've been surveiling him since Aug 2010, surely they have some video footage they can show? All we're seeing on CNN are the same images of OBL.
Sorry, the more I read and hear, the more it looks like a cover up.
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Another interesting fact they've just revealed on CNN is that they found a bunch of computers with their harddrives ripped out. Yet they had no internet.
So everyone who has a computer *has* to have internet?
Perhaps you missed the rest of the joke?
In any case though, I find it odd that the huge mansion had no internet and no phone yet all deliveries arrived by courier. I can't imagine a terrorist running his operation that way ... maybe he sent for supplies via courier pigeon lol
what operation? Btw that's how a wanted man lives, since the internet is pretty much monitored realtime, all the time, since the installment of splitters and so are phones.
I doubt a wanted man would be living in a mansion that is eight times larger than surrounding properties. As for the operation, I have no idea what he was doing. There was a courier regularly going to and from the property so I'm assuming he was still involved in something but who knows, maybe he was delivering Mars Bars and packets of Cornflakes.
I don't believe anything about this story. It's even possible that the US governement owned the mansion and set the entire thing up. Perhaps it was empty at the time and they staged a raid... who knows, I don't, you don't, we'll never really know.
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If he were buried on land the location would become a shrine for all of Al Qaeda. Dumping his body into the ocean was the right move. I'm sure we'll get more proof in the coming days that it was actually him.
Sure they could have dumped his body in the sea but what was the hurry?
Proof? What proof? How will we get proof now? We have no body, the mansion has been conveniently burnt down. The video footage they've just shown on CNN of the aftermath seems dodgy. They claimed it was a 40 minute firefight but the room doesn't look messed up enough. They're currently gathering DNA evidence? lol, come on! Did the US government at some stage manage to retrieve one of Osama's pubes from under a rock in a cave in Afghanistan back in 2001 in order to make that match? Any 'proof' they come up with now will most likely be doctored like everything else seems to be.
I think they have DNA from other family members. There's no way it wasn't him, I think conspiracy theories are 99.9% made up and usually have much less evidence than the truth.
As is anything that comes from a polititian's mouth.
"There's no way it wasn't him".
So apart from Obama's word, what else makes you believe this with conviction?
(http://www.tmonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/trade8034_n2288_Its-a-conspiracy.jpg)
What a bunch of wackos in this thread
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Someone showed me this and I thought it was pretty good:
(http://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg)
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If he were buried on land the location would become a shrine for all of Al Qaeda. Dumping his body into the ocean was the right move. I'm sure we'll get more proof in the coming days that it was actually him.
Sure they could have dumped his body in the sea but what was the hurry?
Proof? What proof? How will we get proof now? We have no body, the mansion has been conveniently burnt down. The video footage they've just shown on CNN of the aftermath seems dodgy. They claimed it was a 40 minute firefight but the room doesn't look messed up enough. They're currently gathering DNA evidence? lol, come on! Did the US government at some stage manage to retrieve one of Osama's pubes from under a rock in a cave in Afghanistan back in 2001 in order to make that match? Any 'proof' they come up with now will most likely be doctored like everything else seems to be.
I think they have DNA from other family members. There's no way it wasn't him, I think conspiracy theories are 99.9% made up and usually have much less evidence than the truth.
As is anything that comes from a polititian's mouth.
"There's no way it wasn't him".
So apart from Obama's word, what else makes you believe this with conviction?
([url]http://www.tmonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/trade8034_n2288_Its-a-conspiracy.jpg[/url])
What a bunch of wackos in this thread
You should put the tinfoil on your balls because your brains already fried, muppet :)
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
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....I doubt a wanted man would be living in a mansion that is eight times larger than surrounding properties...
Why not? It looked like it worked perfectly, he lived somewhere nobody expected him to be. And why would people covering this up pick that property if it isn't a good place for a wanted man to live? This is why I struggle with conspiracy theories. If it was a conspiracy, they would of planted him in a much less conspicuous place, to stop this silly speculation. If it was a conspiracy, it wouldn't all seem so strange. They would of made it really believable. But then people would think that was odd too.
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
I'm not American so I don't take your comments personally as probably a lot of Americans will. I see this post as a really good reason to Ignore you in the future. You are simply a bigot.
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
I hope that was sarcasm. I haven't been that impressed by Obama but Bush was the worst president I can remember. Almost as bad as Gordon Brown :)
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....I doubt a wanted man would be living in a mansion that is eight times larger than surrounding properties...
Why not? It looked like it worked perfectly, he lived somewhere nobody expected him to be. And why would people covering this up pick that property if it isn't a good place for a wanted man to live? This is why I struggle with conspiracy theories. If it was a conspiracy, they would of planted him in a much less conspicuous place, to stop this silly speculation. If it was a conspiracy, it wouldn't all seem so strange. They would of made it really believable. But then people would think that was odd too.
Hiding in plain sight. He probably told anyone who saw him in the neighborhood that he was a celebrity look-a-like. :)
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Someone showed me this and I thought it was pretty good:
([url]http://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg[/url])
lol, very cool.
Good photo for a haters be hatin' tag too
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Hmmmm.... April 30 was the day that Hitler killed himself.
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....I doubt a wanted man would be living in a mansion that is eight times larger than surrounding properties...
Why not? It looked like it worked perfectly, he lived somewhere nobody expected him to be. And why would people covering this up pick that property if it isn't a good place for a wanted man to live? This is why I struggle with conspiracy theories. If it was a conspiracy, they would of planted him in a much less conspicuous place, to stop this silly speculation. If it was a conspiracy, it wouldn't all seem so strange. They would of made it really believable. But then people would think that was odd too.
No, I was just saying that if he was that worried about the phone and the internet, why would he choose to stick out in a mansion on a street surrounded by tiny properties? Why would the US choose that propery? Who knows? It's nice and close to the military base so they can then turn on the Pakistani governement for harbouring Osama? Or because four choppers raiding a tiny property wouldn't look that great on the big screen when the movie comes out? ;D Who knows. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this is me throwing crap out there because my versions seem as authentic as Obama's version. You said earlier " I think conspiracy theories are 99.9% made up and usually have much less evidence than the truth." You're missing point then. Of course they are made up but they're made up because the "truth" lacks any real evidence so effectively the truth is up for grabs.
This story is just off and without any real evidence, one can't help but think that the US governement didn't fabricate this entire thing for some alterior motive. I mean it wouldn't be the first time propaganda is used in the middle of a war.
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
I think it's a prerequite for all politicians of any country to be a complete joke although I have to say Bush's speeches will go down in history as the funniest ever.
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....I doubt a wanted man would be living in a mansion that is eight times larger than surrounding properties...
Why not? It looked like it worked perfectly, he lived somewhere nobody expected him to be. And why would people covering this up pick that property if it isn't a good place for a wanted man to live? This is why I struggle with conspiracy theories. If it was a conspiracy, they would of planted him in a much less conspicuous place, to stop this silly speculation. If it was a conspiracy, it wouldn't all seem so strange. They would of made it really believable. But then people would think that was odd too.
Hiding in plain sight. He probably told anyone who saw him in the neighborhood that he was a celebrity look-a-like. :)
;D
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alterium motive
?
I'm always keen to expand my vocabulary, what does this mean?
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...The soviets found dead Hitler and set his corpse on fire without even trying to collect evidence. And there still seems to be some debate if he fled to South America or other place.
I heard that he is alive, living in Canada, and working for Getty.
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alterium motive
?
I'm always keen to expand my vocabulary, what does this mean?
It means it's 3.43am and time for bed!
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Sorry, I thought it was Latin or something!
Goodnight!
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
Please speak only for yourself. He may be a joke to you, but your opinion may not be shared by "all of us here in Europe".
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
ohh, we sure do have much better 'leaders' and representatives, speakers all around here in Europe ;) Maffia man berlusconi, good old pedofile cohn-bendit... the whole nice hydrocephalic eu parlaiment with insanely stupid regulations obviuolsy aimed at wrecking certain ecomonies at request... etc etc
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
Sounds like your over 55 and white
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
Sounds like your over 55 and white
;D. Exactly.
This is the kind of thing my 80 year old in-laws would say. Any person of color, Harvard educated or not, is just a porter in a fancy suit. They can't imagine him doing anything but carrying their luggage or parking their car. Really pathetic.
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
Sounds like your over 55 and white
For a continent that spent most of the 20th century killing each other, you have a pretty good sense of superiority. With all of the conspiracy theories on this thread, all the hatred of Americans and the arrogance of people who have not made any effort to try to stop terrorism, as long as it stays away from them, you should be glad that someone in the world is making an effort to counter radical islamist and their mission of death. I didn't vote for Bush, and I hoped that Obama would get us out of the middle east faster, but when I see all this crap on these threads, my answer is to let Europeans deal with the islamic radicals themselves, instead of pretending that it's not there, and letting someone else do the job for them. I was at the world trade center on 9/11, and I for one, am happy Bin laden is dead.
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? I'm not sure who that is directed to?
No one has said they are unhappy that Osama is dead.
One person made a comment that sounded very arrogant and bigoted.
No one attacked America in this thread as far as I can remember.
Let's not have this deteriorate into a slanging match between Americans and Europeans!
The last post seems to have come totally out of the blue!
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You didn't have to image that, you saw that and it's brought on emotions.
I didn't see millions of Jews being killed and there are those that dispute the entire holocaust.
How can they keep the lid on everyone who was involved? Surely at some point things would be leaked. What about the Navy Seals that participated in the operation? The people in the Pakistani government who aided in locating him? What about all the intelligence officers involved in the op? It's not like it's just one person making this stuff up.
I don't think we should compare the holocaust with one elusive man that's been underground for a decade who the governement couldn't find in all that time.
Everyone involved? Who was involved apart from the US government? Are you saying the US government aren't equiped to set this up? It was just raiding one property. As for the Pakistani government aiding the US in finding him, that's the story the US have given. They were on the ground at the time but they weren't directly involved and were clueless before the attack. On CNN they said:
"A senior administration official told reporters that U.S. President Barack Obama’s administration did not share intelligence gathered before the attack on bin Laden in Pakistan with any other country – including Pakistan – for security reasons."
[url]http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/was-pakistan-involved-in-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-long-term-interests-of-u-s-hopes-so/[/url] ([url]http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/was-pakistan-involved-in-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-long-term-interests-of-u-s-hopes-so/[/url])
I just choose not to believe everything I hear or read from governements and politicians whose job is to lie.
They just claimed that they now have DNA evidence but what would anyone expect them to say? "oh sorry, we killed some random unknown... oops"? I don't think so.
They got rid of the only evidence they was real. If in fact they killed anyone at all. Also, they've been surveiling him since Aug 2010, surely they have some video footage they can show? All we're seeing on CNN are the same images of OBL.
Sorry, the more I read and hear, the more it looks like a cover up.
There are still a lot of people involved in the entire intelligence gathering and in the operation itself. And you really think the special forces behind it would participate in a mock raid and then just go along with it when the government announces they killed Bin Laden? Many people in the US military don't even like Obama that much, so if it's a lie, I'm sure the truth will out eventually, maybe on Wikileaks or some other source. If OBL is NOT dead, you can be sure he's going to let everyone know.
You could dissect just about anything in the world and find oddities and peculiarities about most anything if you wanted to. Truth stranger than fiction and all that...
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? I'm not sure who that is directed to?
No one has said they are unhappy that Osama is dead.
One person made a comment that sounded very arrogant and bigoted.
No one attacked America in this thread as far as I can remember.
Let's not have this deteriorate into a slanging match between Americans and Europeans!
The last post seems to have come totally out of the blue!
The post was aimed at pseudonymous, who has posted page after page of drivel, and lagereek, who was in the quote above. These are some of the posts from pseudonymous below:
This is fishy as. Anyone who doesn't question the US government in this case has a screw loose.
It all sounds like propaganda to me.
Perhaps the US government conveniently put fake Osama there as an excuse to go to war with Pakistan to retrieve nuclear weapons. That's what I think is happening.
The story that eventually comes out will be designed to fit whatever fantasy is considered most appropriate by the Pentagon/White House, without regard for whether or not it's true.
This story is just off and without any real evidence, one can't help but think that the US governement didn't fabricate this entire thing for some alterior motive. I mean it wouldn't be the first time propaganda is used in the middle of a war.
I should have made that clearer, but the distain for anything american has come through loud and clear on these posts. Perhaps to you that's not attacking america. I beg to differ. If that's out of the blue, perhaps I'm reading a different thread? Although you did respond to the "alterium motive" post. I guess we'll have to define attack differently.
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It happened. I know it's hard to believe that one of the largest and best trained militaries in the world could manage to track down one bearded dude in 10 years, but they did. It happened.
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I guess this will add to some mysteries like:
- what happened at Roswell?
- who killed JFK?
- did MM really commit suicide?
- did man really land on the Moon?
- what happened to Ronaldo before the 1998 World Cup final?
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I guess this will add to some mysteries like:
- what happened at Roswell?
- who killed JFK?
- did MM really commit suicide?
- did man really land on the Moon?
- what happened to Ronaldo before the 1998 World Cup final?
Is Elvis still alive?
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I guess this will add to some mysteries like:
- what happened at Roswell?
- who killed JFK?
- did MM really commit suicide?
- did man really land on the Moon?
- what happened to Ronaldo before the 1998 World Cup final?
Those are easy.
- what happened at Roswell? Nothing, that ones all made up.
- who killed JFK? Lee Harvey Oswald, the conspiracy theory was torn to shreds in an excellent BBC documentary.
- did MM really commit suicide? Yes, unfortunately that happens sometimes.
- did man really land on the Moon? Most definitely yes, they can't fake the hasselblad moon photos that I've see blown up to huge sizes in an exhibition.
- what happened to Ronaldo before the 1998 World Cup final? I don't know about that one, was it food poisoning? That also happens sometimes without a conspiracy.
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I guess this will add to some mysteries like:
- what happened at Roswell?
- who killed JFK?
- did MM really commit suicide?
- did man really land on the Moon?
- what happened to Ronaldo before the 1998 World Cup final?
Is Elvis still alive?
Will the Leafs ever win the cup?
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IMHO, part of the problem is leaders in America are so worried about upsetting special interest groups or non-special interest groups that things such as this are done (killed, no photos, buried in accordance with his religion, etc).
I was Special Forces in the Army; that was a long long time ago but these men do their job. The shame of it is they are wrapped up in this mess because of orders from superiors. I am * proud of the job they did and their ability to obey orders; regardless whether they agree with them or not.
Even if we had the photos of his bullet ridden body; we would still have the nuts claiming other problems. "There is a bullet in the back of his head, must have been killed while running away. Bullet hole in the back, we shot an unarmed man. Two hundred bullet wounds, did we need that level of overkill."
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There are still a lot of people involved in the entire intelligence gathering and in the operation itself. And you really think the special forces behind it would participate in a mock raid and then just go along with it when the government announces they killed Bin Laden? Many people in the US military don't even like Obama that much, so if it's a lie, I'm sure the truth will out eventually, maybe on Wikileaks or some other source. If OBL is NOT dead, you can be sure he's going to let everyone know.
You could dissect just about anything in the world and find oddities and peculiarities about most anything if you wanted to. Truth stranger than fiction and all that...
Yes I do. Absolutely I do. If anyone could pull this one off it's the special forces. Unfortunately the truth will never eventuate. How can it when we have no real evidence?
No one said OBL is not dead. I’m saying it’s quite possible he wasn’t killed two days ago by the US government. I think the US have no clue if he’s alive or dead. I think they need to produce a body (and bury it quickly) to bring some closure to this, pull the troops from Afghanistan and possibly start a bitch fight with the Pakistani government to get rid of nuclear weapons... just like they did with Iraq.
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Yes I do. Absolutely I do. If anyone could pull this one off it's the special forces. Unfortunately the truth will never eventuate. How can it when we have no real evidence?
No one said OBL is not dead. I’m saying it’s quite possible he wasn’t killed two days ago by the US government. I think the US have no clue if he’s alive or dead. I think they need to produce a body (and bury it quickly) to bring some closure to this, pull the troops from Afghanistan and possibly start a bitch fight with the Pakistani government to get rid of nuclear weapons... just like they did with Iraq.
If it was faked, it will be discovered, probably via Wikileaks. And as someone who lives in the US, I know for certain it would be political suicide for Obama to fake this. I don't believe they did. But you are not alone. There are plenty of deathers out there in force who would very much like it all to be fake.
The US is not going to start a war with Pakistan. You really should stop now.
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? I'm not sure who that is directed to?
No one has said they are unhappy that Osama is dead.
One person made a comment that sounded very arrogant and bigoted.
No one attacked America in this thread as far as I can remember.
Let's not have this deteriorate into a slanging match between Americans and Europeans!
The last post seems to have come totally out of the blue!
The post was aimed at pseudonymous, who has posted page after page of drivel, and lagereek, who was in the quote above. These are some of the posts from pseudonymous below:
This is fishy as. Anyone who doesn't question the US government in this case has a screw loose.
It all sounds like propaganda to me.
Perhaps the US government conveniently put fake Osama there as an excuse to go to war with Pakistan to retrieve nuclear weapons. That's what I think is happening.
The story that eventually comes out will be designed to fit whatever fantasy is considered most appropriate by the Pentagon/White House, without regard for whether or not it's true.
This story is just off and without any real evidence, one can't help but think that the US governement didn't fabricate this entire thing for some alterior motive. I mean it wouldn't be the first time propaganda is used in the middle of a war.
I should have made that clearer, but the distain for anything american has come through loud and clear on these posts. Perhaps to you that's not attacking america. I beg to differ. If that's out of the blue, perhaps I'm reading a different thread? Although you did respond to the "alterium motive" post. I guess we'll have to define attack differently.
Oh it was aimed at me, was it?
You wrote:
For a continent that spent most of the 20th century killing each other, you have a pretty good sense of superiority. With all of the conspiracy theories on this thread, all the hatred of Americans and the arrogance of people who have not made any effort to try to stop terrorism, as long as it stays away from them, you should be glad that someone in the world is making an effort to counter radical islamist and their mission of death. I didn't vote for Bush, and I hoped that Obama would get us out of the middle east faster, but when I see all this crap on these threads, my answer is to let Europeans deal with the islamic radicals themselves, instead of pretending that it's not there, and letting someone else do the job for them. I was at the world trade center on 9/11, and I for one, am happy Bin laden is dead.
I think the only drivel in this thread is yours. You’re clearly driven by emotion and therefore cannot fully comprehend the posts on this thread and interpret it as an attack on Americans. How was my post attacking Americans? I wasn’t agreeing with the US government’s cockeyed story that doesn’t add up and if anything, I was attacking the government for trying to pull the wool over Americans’ eyes because they’re using propaganda and emotion to make you believe anything.... it’s working in your case.
One person on this thread made a bigoted comment about Obama but wasn’t attacking America as a whole. Obama is a president of the US and you have to expect that there’s going to be some people who don’t like him or don’t agree with his policies. There are millions of Americans who didn’t vote for him and say worse things about Obama... are they attacking Americans too? My posts don’t show any distain for Americans, only disdain for the US government who I believe is trying to cover something up. I believed OBL was probably dead a long time ago and I believed this a long time ago.... way before your president put together these little events that seem like a charade.
I’m sorry if I’m not one to take Obama’s word as it is... and you are. The US government had to have known that a situation like this would require substantial evidence but they went ahead and tossed it in the ocean? I don’t believe they had a body to toss in the ocean.
I have nothing against the Americans but I’m saying that this should be questioned because nothing adds up and there’s no evidence produced to back anything up... just their word and we all know that the word of a politician doesn’t go very far... regardless of which country they lead. How can anyone not question this story? Let me summarise why I think it’s all too fishy:
1. We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn’t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2. We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn’t look like it was involved in a fire.
3. We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4. We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5. We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6. We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7. We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8. We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be ‘new’ photos of OBL yet he doesn’t look any older than he did 10 years ago.
How can anyone not question Obama on this? How can anyone just take his word when all these things don’t add up?
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^^^ wow.... what other conspiracies do you believe in? and the funny thing is there are lots of pple like you.
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Yes I do. Absolutely I do. If anyone could pull this one off it's the special forces. Unfortunately the truth will never eventuate. How can it when we have no real evidence?
No one said OBL is not dead. I’m saying it’s quite possible he wasn’t killed two days ago by the US government. I think the US have no clue if he’s alive or dead. I think they need to produce a body (and bury it quickly) to bring some closure to this, pull the troops from Afghanistan and possibly start a bitch fight with the Pakistani government to get rid of nuclear weapons... just like they did with Iraq.
If it was faked, it will be discovered, probably via Wikileaks. And as someone who lives in the US, I know for certain it would be political suicide for Obama to fake this. I don't believe they did. But you are not alone. There are plenty of deathers out there in force who would very much like it all to be fake.
The US is not going to start a war with Pakistan. You really should stop now.
I think they covered their tracks carefully enough so it can't be discovered. Only speculation will come about. Nothing will ever be proven.
I don't think this is political suicide for Obama. The parties in the streets at 3am in the morning make it clear that Americans are happy to believe Obama killed Osama and will vote for him because of this. It's easy to pursade people directly effected by this that OBL was killed, by using emotionally-driven propaganda.
It looks like OBL was killed. The people want to believe OBL was killed... therefore he was killed. No evidence was required.
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^^^ wow.... what other conspiracies do you believe in? and the funny thing is there are lots of pple like you.
These aren't conspiracies these are questions I'm raising because these things clearly look off.
Unfortunately... and the funnier thing is, that there are more like you who will believe anything thrown at them without questioning it. It makes politics quite achievable ;)
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I don't think this is political suicide for Obama. The parties in the streets at 3am in the morning make it clear that Americans are happy to believe Obama killed Osama and will vote for him because of this. It's easy to pursade people directly effected by this that OBL was killed, by using emotionally-driven propaganda.
You are flat out wrong. I live in the US and I see for myself there are many Americans questioning it. Obama isn't getting the boost you seem to think he's getting. Yes, some Americans partied in the street, but not the entire population. You are making blanket statements when you don't even know the reality of things.
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1. We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn’t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2. We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn’t look like it was involved in a fire.
3. We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4. We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5. We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6. We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7. We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8. We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be ‘new’ photos of OBL yet he doesn’t look any older than he did 10 years ago.
1. Who said the entire 40 minute firefight was held in one room? And what does a room look like after a 40 minute firefight? Did you see the video of the room? It was trashed and there was blood all over the floor. Probably faked too though, right?
2. The compound was 1 acre. What makes you think the helicopter crashed directly into where they were fighting or that the mansion was burnt down?
3. Probably not the wisest choice, but supposedly there are photos.
4. Who would you expect to gather and test the evidence?
5. How do you know the copter crashed into the mansion?
6. No.
7. How do you know survelliance means *video* sureveillance? There are lots of ways to monitor people, not just by video. And it's unlikely they were even able to get video. I did not see any reports of them claiming they had video surveillance.
8. Haven't heard about any "new" photos of OBL. Is that CNN's goof or the governments?
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Well done America. 10 Years was a long wait and I hope it brings some comfort to those who lost loved ones on 9/11
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^^^ wow.... what other conspiracies do you believe in? and the funny thing is there are lots of pple like you.
These aren't conspiracies these are questions I'm raising because these things clearly look off.
Unfortunately... and the funnier thing is, that there are more like you who will believe anything thrown at them without questioning it. It makes politics quite achievable ;)
funny how u lump everybody that questions your thought process as some sort of brainwashed imbeciles...
Im sure you have tons of questions swirling inside your head
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OK OK let's not get too excited
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake[/url] ([url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake[/url])
1. We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn’t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2. We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn’t look like it was involved in a fire.
3. We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4. We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5. We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6. We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7. We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8. We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be ‘new’ photos of OBL yet he doesn’t look any older than he did 10 years ago.
pseudonymous...maybe you need to read earlier in this thread about the picture...maybe you need to check out your sources before you start throwing more propaganda out there.
Looking at the pictures I wouldn't exactly call that a mansion. It had 18 foot walls with barbed wire around them.
I know of people who have crashed in helicopters and were not killed or wounded.
I don't recall them saying the "so called mansion" burnt to the ground either. The fire could have been anywhere on the outside which was photographed, but I don't think that meant it burnt to the ground.
More information will come out in the following days and I'm not going to make judgement until all the facts come into play.
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OK OK let's not get too excited
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake[/url] ([url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake[/url])
1. We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn’t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2. We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn’t look like it was involved in a fire.
3. We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4. We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5. We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6. We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7. We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8. We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be ‘new’ photos of OBL yet he doesn’t look any older than he did 10 years ago.
pseudonymous...maybe you need to read earlier in this thread about the picture...maybe you need to check out your sources before you start throwing more propaganda out there.
Looking at the pictures I wouldn't exactly call that a mansion. It had 18 foot walls with barbed wire around them.
I know of people who have crashed in helicopters and were not killed or wounded.
I don't recall them saying the "so called mansion" burnt to the ground either. The fire could have been anywhere on the outside which was photographed, but I don't think that meant it burnt to the ground.
More information will come out in the following days and I'm not going to make judgement until all the facts come into play.
Urgh, what makes you think I'm talking of the photos that are on this thread? As for the rest of your rant I'm going to ignore it!
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^^^ wow.... what other conspiracies do you believe in? and the funny thing is there are lots of pple like you.
These aren't conspiracies these are questions I'm raising because these things clearly look off.
Unfortunately... and the funnier thing is, that there are more like you who will believe anything thrown at them without questioning it. It makes politics quite achievable ;)
funny how u lump everybody that questions your thought process as some sort of brainwashed imbeciles...
Im sure you have tons of questions swirling inside your head
I'm not lumping everybody that questions my thought processes as imbeciles, I'm lumping those that don't question anything.
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1. We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn’t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2. We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn’t look like it was involved in a fire.
3. We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4. We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5. We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6. We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7. We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8. We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be ‘new’ photos of OBL yet he doesn’t look any older than he did 10 years ago.
1. Who said the entire 40 minute firefight was held in one room? And what does a room look like after a 40 minute firefight? Did you see the video of the room? It was trashed and there was blood all over the floor. Probably faked too though, right?
2. The compound was 1 acre. What makes you think the helicopter crashed directly into where they were fighting or that the mansion was burnt down?
3. Probably not the wisest choice, but supposedly there are photos.
4. Who would you expect to gather and test the evidence?
5. How do you know the copter crashed into the mansion?
6. No.
7. How do you know survelliance means *video* sureveillance? There are lots of ways to monitor people, not just by video. And it's unlikely they were even able to get video. I did not see any reports of them claiming they had video surveillance.
8. Haven't heard about any "new" photos of OBL. Is that CNN's goof or the governments?
1. LOL, so you’re saying that it’s possible the Navy Seals weren’t shooting at Osama for 40 minutes and they were shooting at nothing for most of that... unreal... that’s exactly what I’m saying! Except I’m saying they were shooting at NOTHING for the entire 40 minutes.
2. I would say the part of the house that contains the apparent blood of OBL has conveniently burnt down otherwise there still would be evidence there wouldn’t there?
3. So if the people are screaming for evidence and they ‘supposedly’ have photos, why not show them?
4. I expect your government to gather and test the evidence which makes the evidence useless. That’s my point. Who else is going to do it?
5. That’s what officials initially said on CNN... that it was shot down from the ground by guards. My point is I don’t know they ‘crashed’. If anything it looks like it was done on purpose to get rid of any evidence that they DIDN’T kill OBL. Now on this report we’re getting a different story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-killed-abbottabad-raid (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-killed-abbottabad-raid)
“The Americans scoured the house for intelligence, took photos of the body, using facial recognition technology to compare it with pictures. It was him. Before withdrawing, the Seals blew up the wreckage of the helicopter. An orange fireball lit up the night sky over Abbottabad.”
Why would they do that unless they’re trying to destroy vital evidence?
6. NO? Do you work for US intelligence and have inside information? It was a rhetorical question, not really directed aimed at you.
7. Well any surveillance. Photos... anything. Where is the evidence? Eight months is a long time, surely they have something!
8. I don’t know, perhaps we can ask the government.
The other interesting thing that was mentioned in the link above is this:
“The neighbours knew the owners of the house – the courier and his brother, described as ethnic Pashtuns – as secretive types. They dispatched children to buy food at local shops, and although they regularly prayed at a local mosque, they didn't engage in small talk.”
So if OBL is reqularly traveling to and from the local mosque, doesn’t the government have footage or photos of this?
The more that comes out the more it looks odd!
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If you were at the twin towers on 9/11 I think you would have a different view of the world.
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If you were at the twin towers on 9/11 I think you would have a different view of the world.
LOL jesus!
You mean I would be brainwashed into thinking that Osama was killed on May 1st. Despite there being any evidence of this actually happening? You mean I would believe he was killed because I would want to believe he was really dead? For some closure? Because I would be emotionally driven to thinking he was killed rather than thinking logically that none of this story gels?
Thank you for precisely agreeing with my point about Obama and the US governement adminerstering emotionally-driven propaganda to make people believe whatever they want them to believe, despite them quickly disposing of any evidence that it did or did not really happen.
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1. LOL, so you’re saying that it’s possible the Navy Seals weren’t shooting at Osama for 40 minutes and they were shooting at nothing for most of that... unreal... that’s exactly what I’m saying! Except I’m saying they were shooting at NOTHING for the entire 40 minutes.
Where did I ever say that? I'm sure the fighting was outside and inside the house. You seem to think it all happened in one room. I don't know where you are getting that impression.
You don't trust the government, but can you trust the media either? Even when presented with the facts they are known to botch things up. Look at the one media outlet that published that faked photo!
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“The neighbours knew the owners of the house – the courier and his brother, described as ethnic Pashtuns – as secretive types. They dispatched children to buy food at local shops, and although they regularly prayed at a local mosque, they didn't engage in small talk.”
So if OBL is reqularly traveling to and from the local mosque, doesn’t the government have footage or photos of this?
That proves what exactly? That maybe they saw *some* people who came and went from the house? No one knows if OBL ever left that house or not. They thought the courier owned the house, but where is a courier going to get the money to build a million dollar compound.
You accuse other people of blindly following the government, but you take every little thing and supply a sinister angle to it. I actually think it's laughable that you, and only you, seem to now the truth. LOLOLOL
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“The neighbours knew the owners of the house – the courier and his brother, described as ethnic Pashtuns – as secretive types. They dispatched children to buy food at local shops, and although they regularly prayed at a local mosque, they didn't engage in small talk.”
So if OBL is reqularly traveling to and from the local mosque, doesn’t the government have footage or photos of this?
That proves what exactly? That maybe they saw *some* people who came and went from the house? No one knows if OBL ever left that house or not. They thought the courier owned the house, but where is a courier going to get the money to build a million dollar compound.
You accuse other people of blindly following the government, but you take every little thing and supply a sinister angle to it. I actually think it's laughable that you, and only you, seem to now the truth. LOLOLOL
I never said it does prove anything. I'm saying the more that comes out from both the media and the governement, the more twisted this story gets.
I have no idea where you got the impression that I've ever stated that I know the truth? Are you for real? Have you not been reading what I've been typing. My argument this entire time is that I or YOU or NOBODY but the GOVERNMENT knows the truth and without the evidence (to prove or disprove them) we will NEVER know the truth.
I find it incredibly laughabe that you and people like you take Obama's word that he's killed him without wanting any proof. I'm not saying he's not dead. I'm saying the US governement, just like you or I, probably have no clue if OBL is dead or alive and that he probably dropped off the face of the earth years ago. I believe this wasn't an attempt to bury OBL's body but to bury the issue, give you guys (who'll believe anything) some closure and they can move on to whatever's next on the agenda because it seems they've done whatver they wanted to do in Afghanistan. Time to pull the troops and either save some money or put the troops somewhere else. Pakistan? We'll see!
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The post was aimed at pseudonymous, who has posted page after page of drivel, and lagereek, who was in the quote above. These are some of the posts from pseudonymous below:
.....
The story that eventually comes out will be designed to fit whatever fantasy is considered most appropriate by the Pentagon/White House, without regard for whether or not it's true.
[/i]the distain for anything american has come through loud and clear on these posts.
That one wasn't from pseudonymous, it was from me and it had nothing to do with disdain for the US. If I had been in charge of this I couldn't think of a better outcome than to have him dead and tied to an anchor at the bottom of the sea. That is what I would want to happen and after I made it happen I would say he died fighting whether he had or not. The jihadis could hardly say "no, he was a coward who surrendered, you murdered him", could they?
Can you imagine how beneficial it would be to have bin Laden spend 20 years in US jails going through trials and appeals until, one day, he gets executed? All the lovely hostage takings and demands for his release? The suicide bombings to coincide with each step of the legal process? The outraged imams at Friday prayers all over the more backward parts of Asia? The pro-Osama demonstrations?
So you can say my cynicism is a result of how nasty I am. That if I ordered it I would tell them to kill the b*st*rd and get rid of the body. And if you want to tell me that US leaders/soldiers are just too nice to think of such a thing and all he had to do was say "I surrender" to be safe in American care for the next 30 years, well, you can think that if you like. You can even tell me that the Pentagon, like G. Washington, can never tell a lie (wasn't he a politician?) but I'm afraid I think that would be a false assessment.
Personally, beyond the broad outline that he was tracked down, attacked, killed during the operation and then dumped in the sea, I don't think any details will be reliable and I don't think they actually matter.
I also think it is completely silly to think Obama would announce he was dead unless he was.
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1. We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn’t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2. We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn’t look like it was involved in a fire.
3. We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4. We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5. We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6. We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7. We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8. We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be ‘new’ photos of OBL yet he doesn’t look any older than he did 10 years ago.
How can anyone not question Obama on this? How can anyone just take his word when all these things don’t add up?
I think a lot of this is down to bad reporting in the rush to get the news out. I was watching from 7am in the UK and the news were getting things wrong all the time. First they said the compound was on fire, then they said the troops helicopter had a fault and was deliberately set on fire. They were showing the obviously faked photo of Bin Laden, then they said it might not be real, then they stopped showing it and didn't mention their blunder again.
I remember doing a video of a decrepit old house and it never looks as bad as it is in real life. Did the firefight last 40 minutes or was that the entire operation? They would of spent a lot of time sealing off any escape routes.
Disposing of the body at sea quickly seems the most sensible option. I like the fact that the body was disposed of within 24 hours, to comply with Muslim tradition and that there wont be a focus point for a shrine now. Why wouldn't they have DNA evidence? I just don't understand that one.
Who reported that the US chopper was shot down? I only heard that it had a technical fault and was deliberately destroyed. They used 4, so they had 3 others to get away. Helicopters do sometimes have problems, one bullet could damage something and make it dangerous to fly. I don't see anything outrageous about that.
I presume they don't have any footage of Bin Laden because he stayed inside the compound out of site. He was the most wanted man in the world, I'm not surprised he was hiding. He was 54 when he died, so hopefully if we do see some real photos, he will look around that age.
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
Sounds like your over 55 and white
Please! The vicious racism and ageism of it! I'm over 55 and white (and European) and I think Lagereek is talking tosh. You need to get away from making up negative stereotypes of people, it does no good in the long run, you know.
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An overwhelmingly superior force (what else??) of SF fought for 40 minutes with a frail old man and a few bodyguards? Who ever beleives that, jesus ppl are stupid... Bin Laden never even had a proper organization of armed man who could defend him, any well trained armed force could have just snatched him in 2 minutes. Being an 'inspiration' to radical muslims doesn't turn anyone into ironman : )
Now Mrs. Hillary sais this won't stop Al Qaeda... that's for sure since Al Qaeda never existed, except as a curtroom invetion to service the organized crime law, and a buzzword for the public. As long as US fights it, there will an inivisible fearsome magical Al Qaeda, when they stop fighting it, it will magically dissapear : )))
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I think it's a good thing that the leader of Al Qaeda has been put out of play, but I also have a weird feeling about people celebrating the death of another human being. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, cause there might have been a good reason to kill Osama, but seeing news reporters with a smile on their face and Americans celebrating in the streets just seems kind of macabre to me, as a public lynching from the 18th century
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I wish Osama would join us in this thread and set the facts straight.
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There has been a lot of talk why it took 10 years to capture bin Laden. First fact, the Taliban offered to turn Bin Laden over to an Islamic Court in Saudi Arabia two weeks after 9/11 for trial but this was refused by the Bush administration. Bin Laden would have surely been convicted as a criminal and thus diffuse the terrible history of the last 10 years..
Like all comic books, the hero can only be defined by how bad the villain is . . . the Bush administration needed a “face of fear” to pursue its real goal which was to privatize the Iraqi oil fields thus bringing great profits to Bush and Cheney's supporters. Bush never wanted to capture bin Laden, he himself said “I don't know where he is and don't give him much thought”. On the other hand it was Obama's policy from the beginning of his Administration to capture bin Laden so making it more politically possible to leave Afghanistan. It took him two years to accomplish his election promise. Good on him, so now lets get . out . . . . . .
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With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.
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With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.
Half the planet’s supply of lithium is in Bolivia. Read the Book “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” by John Perkins to realize that the leaders of that country better lock their doors at night.
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I think it's a good thing that the leader of Al Qaeda has been put out of play, but I also have a weird feeling about people celebrating the death of another human being. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, cause there might have been a good reason to kill Osama, but seeing news reporters with a smile on their face and Americans celebrating in the streets just seems kind of macabre to me, as a public lynching from the 18th century
I stood out side the WTC on sept 11th and watched the towers fall with 3000 people in them. People actually jumped from the upper floors to death rather than be burned alive. There is no moral equivalence here, just the fact that bin laden was a murderer on a huge scale, and had it coming. If you are lucky enough to be far removed from this event, that's good for you. But don't judge those who were not so lucky.
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I think it's a good thing that the leader of Al Qaeda has been put out of play, but I also have a weird feeling about people celebrating the death of another human being. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, cause there might have been a good reason to kill Osama, but seeing news reporters with a smile on their face and Americans celebrating in the streets just seems kind of macabre to me, as a public lynching from the 18th century
I stood out side the WTC on sept 11th and watched the towers fall with 3000 people in them. People actually jumped from the upper floors to death rather than be burned alive. There is no moral equivalence here, just the fact that bin laden was a murderer on a huge scale, and had it coming. If you are lucky enough to be far removed from this event, that's good for you. But don't judge those who were not so lucky.
I'm not judging those of you who happened to be first hand witnesses on sept. 11th. Very sorry you had to see it, and just to set the record straight, I think what happened there was horrible beyond belief; NOT trying to undermine that.
That being said I've always been against death sentence in any form. I was raised to believe that, by my parents and by my country, and it's something I would want to pass on to my own children.. And I don't think a death is something to cheer about, whether it's the death of a hero or a villain, and these are my personal beliefs... But that's another discussion
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The post was aimed at pseudonymous, who has posted page after page of drivel, and lagereek, who was in the quote above. These are some of the posts from pseudonymous below:
.....
The story that eventually comes out will be designed to fit whatever fantasy is considered most appropriate by the Pentagon/White House, without regard for whether or not it's true.
[/i]the distain for anything american has come through loud and clear on these posts.
That one wasn't from pseudonymous, it was from me and it had nothing to do with disdain for the US. If I had been in charge of this I couldn't think of a better outcome than to have him dead and tied to an anchor at the bottom of the sea. That is what I would want to happen and after I made it happen I would say he died fighting whether he had or not. The jihadis could hardly say "no, he was a coward who surrendered, you murdered him", could they?
Can you imagine how beneficial it would be to have bin Laden spend 20 years in US jails going through trials and appeals until, one day, he gets executed? All the lovely hostage takings and demands for his release? The suicide bombings to coincide with each step of the legal process? The outraged imams at Friday prayers all over the more backward parts of Asia? The pro-Osama demonstrations?
So you can say my cynicism is a result of how nasty I am. That if I ordered it I would tell them to kill the b*st*rd and get rid of the body. And if you want to tell me that US leaders/soldiers are just too nice to think of such a thing and all he had to do was say "I surrender" to be safe in American care for the next 30 years, well, you can think that if you like. You can even tell me that the Pentagon, like G. Washington, can never tell a lie (wasn't he a politician?) but I'm afraid I think that would be a false assessment.
Personally, beyond the broad outline that he was tracked down, attacked, killed during the operation and then dumped in the sea, I don't think any details will be reliable and I don't think they actually matter.
I also think it is completely silly to think Obama would announce he was dead unless he was.
When I read about fantasies created by the white house/pentagon, I assumed you were talking about the US. My mistake.
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With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.
Hi madelaide,
I seriously doubt that the US would stay there for the lithium. There’s a real misconception about the value of this commodity. It’s pretty cheap to buy... I think it's than $10,000 a tonne. Although lithium is being used in lithium batteries, only about 2% of the ingredients that goes into the battery is actually lithium. Also lithium is recyclable so in 20 years or so there’ll be no real need to mine the stuff at all. Mining will decline and we'll see more lithium recycling plants start up.
There are also lithium deposits throughout the world so I don’t think the US will go through the trouble of setting up a mining site in Afghanistan, in the middle of a war torn country, for less than $10,000 a tonne when prices will surely go down in the future... due to supply going up because of recycling.
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I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama? he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.
Sounds like your over 55 and white
Please! The vicious racism and ageism of it! I'm over 55 and white (and European) and I think Lagereek is talking tosh. You need to get away from making up negative stereotypes of people, it does no good in the long run, you know.
Stereotypes are there for reasons.... dont be so pc... im not making up anything, just observing facts. You took offense to this because you believe that statement has some truth to it. I didnt mean that all older white europeans are racists. I was just acknowledging that racism was more the norm and accepted back in the days.
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http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://froyonation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-watching.jpg&imgrefurl=http://froyonation.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/picture-of-obama-and-his-team-watching-operation-kill-bin-laden/&usg=__K2yCbT-DH3WPuKli3_8AZJq6Buc=&h=681&w=1024&sz=103&hl=en&start=38&zoom=1&tbnid=PJEetFrKagoT5M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=196&ei=NgvATZq_BvPp0QGe55WkBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bwatching%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1515%26bih%3D938%26site%3Dsearch%26tbm%3Disch0%2C672&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=542&vpy=582&dur=2381&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=191&ty=109&page=2&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:38&biw=1515&bih=938 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://froyonation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-watching.jpg&imgrefurl=http://froyonation.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/picture-of-obama-and-his-team-watching-operation-kill-bin-laden/&usg=__K2yCbT-DH3WPuKli3_8AZJq6Buc=&h=681&w=1024&sz=103&hl=en&start=38&zoom=1&tbnid=PJEetFrKagoT5M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=196&ei=NgvATZq_BvPp0QGe55WkBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bwatching%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1515%26bih%3D938%26site%3Dsearch%26tbm%3Disch0%2C672&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=542&vpy=582&dur=2381&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=191&ty=109&page=2&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:38&biw=1515&bih=938)
pseudonymous: so what are they really looking at?
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2 girls one cup?
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[url]http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://froyonation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-watching.jpg&imgrefurl=http://froyonation.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/picture-of-obama-and-his-team-watching-operation-kill-bin-laden/&usg=__K2yCbT-DH3WPuKli3_8AZJq6Buc=&h=681&w=1024&sz=103&hl=en&start=38&zoom=1&tbnid=PJEetFrKagoT5M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=196&ei=NgvATZq_BvPp0QGe55WkBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bwatching%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1515%26bih%3D938%26site%3Dsearch%26tbm%3Disch0%2C672&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=542&vpy=582&dur=2381&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=191&ty=109&page=2&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:38&biw=1515&bih=938[/url] ([url]http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://froyonation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-watching.jpg&imgrefurl=http://froyonation.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/picture-of-obama-and-his-team-watching-operation-kill-bin-laden/&usg=__K2yCbT-DH3WPuKli3_8AZJq6Buc=&h=681&w=1024&sz=103&hl=en&start=38&zoom=1&tbnid=PJEetFrKagoT5M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=196&ei=NgvATZq_BvPp0QGe55WkBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bwatching%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1515%26bih%3D938%26site%3Dsearch%26tbm%3Disch0%2C672&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=542&vpy=582&dur=2381&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=191&ty=109&page=2&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:38&biw=1515&bih=938[/url])
pseudonymous: so what are they really looking at?
Someone probably told them to look scared and intense for the charade. I don't think psuedo is going to believe anything short of witnessing it himself. Photos - doctored, video - edited, eye-witness reports - liars.
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pseudonymous: so what are they really looking at?
The events that took place at the compound in Pakistan on May 1st was a cover up. The US governement, as seen in your link above are watching the REAL Osama Bin Laden who was spotted on April 29th in a location far from Pakistan.
(http://froyonation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-watching.jpg?w=700)
The classified document that has been obscured in the photograph above (I've blown it up so you can take a better look) is in actual fact part of the photograph shown below where Osama Bin Laden was cleverly disguised as a moose in London:
(http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/04/30/1226047/418639-royal-wedding-yorks.jpg)
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Instead of attacking me, why don't you give us your version of what they are all looking at?
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With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.
Lithium you say, that'll be handy medication for some folk!
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With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.
Lithium you say, that'll be handy medication for some folk!
ROFL!
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Instead of attacking me, why don't you give us your version of what they are all looking at?
I just did!
PS. No one is attacking you. You just don't like my opinion and I don't like yours. Move on *.
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What really makes me laugh however is that if I believe the US staged and pulled off this whole event in Pakistan. Surely they can pose for a bloody photo. Who knows what is going on in the photo! It's not like they're showing us what they're watching. They could be watching a Lady Gaga concert for all we know!
EDIT: By the looks on their faces, they're watching one of Bush's old presidential speeches to get tips on what NOT to say.
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Please! The vicious racism and ageism of it! I'm over 55(and white and European) and I think Lagereek is talking tosh. You need to get away from making up negative stereotypes of people, it does no good in the long run, you know.
Stereotypes are there for reasons.... dont be so pc... im not making up anything, just observing facts. You took offense to this because you believe that statement has some truth to it. I didnt mean that all older white europeans are racists. I was just acknowledging that racism was more the norm and accepted back in the days.
Lol, I wasn't offended. Your logic was way off, though. Stereotypes paint young black, inner-city males as drug users and criminals but it doesn't mean you can assume that because someone is a drug using criminal that person must be a black inner-city male. Stereotypes are dangerous and misleading.
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Instead of attacking me, why don't you give us your version of what they are all looking at?
I just did!
PS. No one is attacking you. You just don't like my opinion and I don't like yours. Move on *.
Saying I'm drunk when I post (which you conveniently now deleted) is an attack. Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean I'm drunk. From what you have been saying, it's pretty easy to conclude that nothing short of *your* first hand witnessing of the event would convince you otherwise. I don't think I'm the one that needs to move on. Just sayin'.
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I think it's a good thing that the leader of Al Qaeda has been put out of play, but I also have a weird feeling about people celebrating the death of another human being. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, cause there might have been a good reason to kill Osama, but seeing news reporters with a smile on their face and Americans celebrating in the streets just seems kind of macabre to me, as a public lynching from the 18th century
It does leave one conflicted doesn't it, and I'm afraid of what kind of retaliation may have been triggered.
A very wise man's words:
I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Instead of attacking me, why don't you give us your version of what they are all looking at?
I just did!
PS. No one is attacking you. You just don't like my opinion and I don't like yours. Move on *.
Saying I'm drunk when I post (which you conveniently now deleted) is an attack. Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean I'm drunk. From what you have been saying, it's pretty easy to conclude that nothing short of *your* first hand witnessing of the event would convince you otherwise. I don't think I'm the one that needs to move on. Just sayin'.
If it was deleted then it was deleted for a reason, no? I deleted it about 30 seconds after posting it because it was a mistake. It was pasted accidently from elsewhere. It wasn't directed at you or even anyone here but to someone on a private forum. I don't type directly on here (my browser doesn't like it) and I paste my posts from word. I copied something else that I wrote in a another forum. You were super quick reading it though. Do you sit here refreshing the page over and over again every 10 seconds or something? LOL
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Please! The vicious racism and ageism of it! I'm over 55(and white and European) and I think Lagereek is talking tosh. You need to get away from making up negative stereotypes of people, it does no good in the long run, you know.
Stereotypes are there for reasons.... dont be so pc... im not making up anything, just observing facts. You took offense to this because you believe that statement has some truth to it. I didnt mean that all older white europeans are racists. I was just acknowledging that racism was more the norm and accepted back in the days.
Lol, I wasn't offended. Your logic was way off, though. Stereotypes paint young black, inner-city males as drug users and criminals but it doesn't mean you can assume that because someone is a drug using criminal that person must be a black inner-city male. Stereotypes are dangerous and misleading.
If i said "you sound 27 and black" would that even have made sense? Im not the one making this negative stereotype up.
By your direct response, you were offended. Lol all u want... im just curious to know why the offense, because you fit into that category i mentioned.
The only thing i can assume from looking at a drug user is that the person likes to get high. The media likes to stereotype that and unfortunately the media is mostly run by whites. again, its just statistical facts. just chilax! (cool off and relax)
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FWIW, I took VB's comment as a funny quip based on a pretty standard stereotype. It fits quite well with some members of my family.
I am sure that VB was not seriously intending to say everyone over 55 and white the world over is a bigot. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it :)
Edited to remove some rambling that will probably just get me in hot water ;)
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I might get offended if VB insists on continuing to accuse me of lying about it. I'm afraid he doesn't understand and old man's sense of humour.
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If it was deleted then it was deleted for a reason, no? I deleted it about 30 seconds after posting it because it was a mistake. It was pasted accidently from elsewhere. It wasn't directed at you or even anyone here but to someone on a private forum. I don't type directly on here (my browser doesn't like it) and I paste my posts from word. I copied something else that I wrote in a another forum. You were super quick reading it though. Do you sit here refreshing the page over and over again every 10 seconds or something? LOL
Nope. Just lucky I guess.
Maybe I should also play the lottery today... :D
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A very wise man's words:
I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
Amen to that... ;)
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I couldn't read the whole thread, but I must say I am a bit skeptical about the whole thing. Killing the most wanted terrorist in the world, and just throwing his body in the sea before anyone else can check if the body really belongs to Osama Bin Laden....hmm. I expected a big pompous announcements at least, and maybe even a video of a burial, as a lecture to other terrorists.
Probably we all have our own views here. There are people who were in the towers on that September 11th, who realized what the terrorism means in it's worst shape. But there are also people who experienced NATO bombing, like people in my country. I didn't do anything wrong to have windows on my house broken by bombs from NATO bombers. Those poor people who died from the cassette bomb on the farmers market in the city of Nis in the south of Serbia during NATO bombing 1999. also didn't do anything wrong. I watched tomahawks flying over my house for many nights wondering where are they heading, and will they miss the target and kill more innocent people, or maybe my family.
So, I don't like both, terrorists, and NATO army, because they grow one from another and they feed one another. I also don't like that 80% of the world's opium still comes from Afghanistan, even though NATO army is there for years.
There are ALWAYS some hidden purposes of every modern war in the world. Usually it's oil. I wonder what will happen when the wells run dry...
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A very wise man's words:
I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
Amen to that... ;)
Apparently he never said that, it's a fake
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/)
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OMG!!! You mean everything I read on the Internet isn't true???? How can my life have any meaning?
It really did really hit a chord though - whoever wrote it.
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OMG!!! You mean everything I read on the Internet isn't true???? How can my life have any meaning?
It really did really hit a chord though - whoever wrote it.
I don't understand why whoever wrote it wouldn't want credit for it.
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A very wise man's words:
I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
Amen to that... ;)
Apparently he never said that, it's a fake
[url]http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/[/url] ([url]http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/[/url])
Heh I still like the saying rather it was said by Martin Luther King or not... ;D Actually I didn't even notice who said it.
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With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.
Half the planet’s supply of lithium is in Bolivia. Read the Book “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” by John Perkins to realize that the leaders of that country better lock their doors at night.
USGS and Pentagon (!) have discovered large reserves of lithium and other minerals:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1286464/US-discovers-natural-desposits-gold-iron-copper-lithium-Afghanistan.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1286464/US-discovers-natural-desposits-gold-iron-copper-lithium-Afghanistan.html)
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I am 39 and White. I dont like what Obama is doing. Not because of the color of his skin. Because of his Policies he is making.
I would vote for Colin Powell in a heartbeat. Why? Colin Powell is a leader. He knows what it means to send troops into battle. He has been there in it. He is also a person who brought himself up from nothing in Harlem to where he got in the Military.
I liked George Dubbya in the first term. In the second term it was kind of like "Screw it. I can't be elected again." Yea.. time to go the Boy George.
As with everything here. It's just my own opinion.
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If it was deleted then it was deleted for a reason, no? I deleted it about 30 seconds after posting it because it was a mistake. It was pasted accidently from elsewhere. It wasn't directed at you or even anyone here but to someone on a private forum. I don't type directly on here (my browser doesn't like it) and I paste my posts from word. I copied something else that I wrote in a another forum. You were super quick reading it though. Do you sit here refreshing the page over and over again every 10 seconds or something? LOL
Nope. Just lucky I guess.
Maybe I should also play the lottery today... :D
lol if you win, I deserve at least 20%.
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A very wise man's words:
I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
Amen to that... ;)
Apparently he never said that, it's a fake
[url]http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/[/url] ([url]http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/[/url])
Interesting. So because the quote was not found on a google search means that the quote wasn't authentic? Perhaps they quoted it from a book or something... remember those?
I have no idea if this quote is genuine or not but this is how today's "truth" works. If people repeat the quote enough it will become a MLK quote regardless of whether he said it. This is the basic way the US government (and any government) works.
Al Quade exists because they've repeated it enough times people believe it. OBL is responsible for 911 because the governement repeated enough time. They conveniently keep forgetting to repeat how they funded, trained and armed Afghanastan islamic extrmists during the cold war lol.
People blindly believe anything! History is apparently as easy to rewrite as the bible or koran!
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BREAKING NEWS: There is talk on CNN that Osama death photos will be released soon.
Word has it that the delay has been due to the lengthy review times at Dreamstime. Please be advised that the long awaited image may be rejected for similars. If this happens, however, do not worry, you will find the image(s) on a number of photoshop tutorial websites.
;D
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I am 39 and White. I dont like what Obama is doing. Not because of the color of his skin. Because of his Policies he is making.
I would vote for Colin Powell in a heartbeat. Why? Colin Powell is a leader. He knows what it means to send troops into battle. He has been there in it. He is also a person who brought himself up from nothing in Harlem to where he got in the Military.
I liked George Dubbya in the first term. In the second term it was kind of like "Screw it. I can't be elected again." Yea.. time to go the Boy George.
As with everything here. It's just my own opinion.
I watched Colin Powell give a presentation to the UN about the threat of Saddam Hussein's WMD's before the invasion of Iraq. I lost all respect for him then. He was trying to justify the invasion on very flimsy evidence from satellite photos and of course he was wrong. The UN inspectors new this "intelligence" was wrong, I remember Hans Blix spoke up about it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/feb/05/iraq.unitednations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/feb/05/iraq.unitednations)
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OMG!!! You mean everything I read on the Internet isn't true???? How can my life have any meaning?
It really did really hit a chord though - whoever wrote it.
I don't understand why whoever wrote it wouldn't want credit for it.
I guess because if King didn't say it just comes across as a load of cheesy schmaltz.
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I don't have the time to read all this thread, so sorry if this has already been said, but I was just reading this BBC report and the facts seem to be obscured. "The US also revised its account of how it took place, saying Bin Laden was not armed when his compound was stormed." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13276540 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13276540)
So there has been a revision of what actually happened, even though they were watching live images. News reports keep reporting like this also, taken from the same article. "He is believed to have ordered the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001". 'He is believed', suggests it's not conclusive. If they are certain, why don't they report as 'He ordered the attacks on New York and Washington...'
"There was concern that Bin Laden would oppose the capture operation and, indeed, he resisted," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters on Tuesday. In any situation what kind of resistance can someone who is unarmed do to someone who is armed? I'd love to see the the images the White House saw of him resisting, unarmed.
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Colin Powell is a leader. He knows what it means to send troops into battle. He has been there in it. He is also a person who brought himself up from nothing in Harlem to where he got in the Military.
Do you really believe that the troops are sent anywhere in the world to make a peace, and not because of other interests??? Do you really believe in the humane reasons for attacking any country in the world because of their insane leader?? Do you really believe it couldn't be done in a much cheaper way, better for everybody, without loss of so many innocent lives?
I don't believe that troops are sent to make a peace. Why? Because all that money spent in a war could be spent in much better way by sending food and water to all dying children in Africa for example. But, there is no economic interests in helping children in Africa, right. It doesn't pay off...
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War Is a Racket
"War Is a Racket" is the title of two works by retired U.S. Marine Major General Smedley D. Butler.
In 1934 he was involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot (or White House Putsch) when he told a congressional committee that a group from Wall Street had approached him to lead a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Quote form Smedley D. Butler:
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.”
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I don't have the time to read all this thread, so sorry if this has already been said, but I was just reading this BBC report and the facts seem to be obscured. "The US also revised its account of how it took place, saying Bin Laden was not armed when his compound was stormed." [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13276540[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13276540[/url])
So there has been a revision of what actually happened, even though they were watching live images. News reports keep reporting like this also, taken from the same article. "He is believed to have ordered the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001". 'He is believed', suggests it's not conclusive. If they are certain, why don't they report as 'He ordered the attacks on New York and Washington...'
"There was concern that Bin Laden would oppose the capture operation and, indeed, he resisted," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters on Tuesday. In any situation what kind of resistance can someone who is unarmed do to someone who is armed? I'd love to see the the images the White House saw of him resisting, unarmed.
I can’t take anything that happened 3 days ago seriously because the whole thing, dating back to ten years, is fabricated. The only good thing about this is hopefully they'll put this issue to rest, pull the troops out of Afghanastan... both the Americans and our own, and move on to something else because all this rubbish they come up with is quite sickening.
Osama Bin Laden wasn’t responsible for 911. It had to be an inside job. When I watched the planes going into the twin towers back in 2001, I initially thought “oh f%#$ terrorists!” but when the buildings collapsed, I knew something was off. There was no way the steel structure of the buildings could have gotten hot enough to collapse like that. I used to work in the steel industry for some years so I know what it takes to produce steel and I know what it takes to melt it. I know for a fact that jet fuel, which is basically kerosene, could not have done that to the building. If it was that easy to melt steel, we simply would have added kero in the furnace with the scrap metal and lit a match for peanuts. Instead we spent millions every month on energy and electrodes to bring the furnace to about 1300 degrees C to melt it and produce 99 tonnes of molten steel and then produce billets.
It would be pretty hard for Americans to believe that their own government traded the lives of 3000 of it's own people in order to make up the “war on terror” which pretty much gives them a licence to murder anyone they like in the future... but it sure looks like this is the case!
Have a read of this...
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/911_a_hoax.htm (http://www.serendipity.li/wot/911_a_hoax.htm)
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War Is a Racket
"War Is a Racket" is the title of two works by retired U.S. Marine Major General Smedley D. Butler.
In 1934 he was involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot (or White House Putsch) when he told a congressional committee that a group from Wall Street had approached him to lead a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Quote form Smedley D. Butler:
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.”
I'm not sure why you bring this up. I suppose it's a proxy for the evil american empire's secret actions around the world in the war on terror. Let's put this quote in context. The general you are talking about died in 1940, making allegations that were very helpful to his worldwide speaking tour. At that time, Nazi Germany was on the rise, and the rest of the european nations were busy exploiting their colonies in Africa and around the world. These nations included Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, Portugal, Spain and the UK. The United States was a deeply isolationist nation at the time, with most Americans preferring to let the European nations fight among themselves, as they had for hundreds of years. It wasn't until Nazi Germany had almost subjugated Europe that Americans even began to come around to the idea that we needed to step up and fight the Germans, and of course, Japan's mistake in attacking Pearl Harbor tipped the balance into action. So, here's a continent busy killing each other, gassing 8 million jews ( or maybe in your view that never happened), and the evil Americans somehow saw this as an opportunity to extend their empire? Let's just gloss over the fact that after world war 2, we did NOT rape and pillage Germany and Japan. In addition to helping to rebuild the shattered economies of our allies, we also rebuilt the economies of our enemies. You sit now, smug, self satisfied and comfortable in your little world, happy to see the US as the evil power that somehow has a plan for world domination. Sorry, but as long as you're dredging up old history in order to convince yourself of your moral superiority, try looking at more than a tiny slice that serves your present needs. If war is a racket, then Germany is a world class racketeer.
As for the rest of you sanctimonious US bashers, with your " lithium plot" posts and your speculation about Bin Laden's "true" death, you are lucky enough to live in a time when the most powerful nation on earth, with uncontested ability to control the seas and the air, spends it's efforts, blood and treasure, not to subjugate the world but to advance freedom around the world. All the former soviet satellite nations and the nations of Europe under the Nazi's boots owe Americans a debt that will never be repaid, except by the posts of the sneering, arrogant and comfortable citizens made free by the very nation you despise.
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For jbarber873,
First of all I am a proud American but I do not live in a Norman Rockwell world. I truly wish I did.
Let me make history easy for you.
Iraq War:
1. Military invasion
2. Overthrow ruler
3. Install puppet ruler
4. Sign oil contracts for corporations
5. Build military base next to oil fields
Bang Bang, thank you ma'am!
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I simply don't support war, because it has so many bad consequences. There are always more civilized ways. 10 years of negotiation are better than 1 month of war, and I know it from my personal experience. But people who didn't experience the war don't really know how looks like.
I don't blame American people for not feeling for other nations in war (respect to exceptions). They had 9/11, and only then they felt how terrible it can be. But that's just one day of terror. It's far from enough to change the view on the world and life. For me, few months of everyday bombing was more than enough to realize what the war is. There are still half demolished buildings in our capitol city, with now already big trees growing from them as a reminder of bombing. And that didn't do any terrorist. That was a legal action of nato army.
Also, when I was in the US I noticed that their news on tv are focusing on things like murders on streets of big cities in US, car crashes, celebrities, American economy.... There are no world news that talk about horrors in many other countries. Only the biggest events are reported, like an earthquake in Japan and so on. TV stations are owned and controlled by oil industry, and everything is subordinated to it. For example, there was a world meeting about global warming in Mexico, and it lasted for days, but I could only hear about it on Pacifica radio, which is an independent radio station. Nothing about it on TV.
I think American people are blessed to live in the country who spares them from bad news, and they are not to blame.
I was in one of the most developed parts of America, Silicon Valley, and I must say that people there are well informed, and have a big knowledge about the world we live in. But I am not sure about parts of the country that are less developed.
I like how American people live, and I think they have a healthier view of their own personal future, exactly because they are spared from reality that lurks across the oceans. They have more freedom to live their dreams, and that is a blessing. People I met are very friendly and open minded, and ready to help, and to give. But very rich people who lead the country, who pay politicians to vote for their interests, and pay minimal taxes on their fortune are another story. I can't really say I like them...
@jbarber873
When America decided to take action in the Europe during world war 2, Russia was on it's way to run over to the France, and America couldn't let that happen. Every powerful country wants to conquer the world, there is nothing new about it. Every empire in the history tried to do it. America is doing the same thing right now, just in a modern way, not with horses and swords.
If you think America is here to advance the freedom, come and live in Kosovo. Kosovo is "free", and full of American military bases. 12 years after military action ironically called "Merciful Angel", people are still suffering on Kosovo, and there are more problems than before 1999. Tens of Monasteries burned, with some of them older than 700 years, more than 200 mosques built in last 10 years with money from Saudi Arabia, and people are paid 300 Euros per month (which is enough to live the whole month) just to join the extremist islamic Wahabi movement. More than one million Serbs ran away from their homes, and Kosovo became almost ethnically pure Albanian. Everyday 80% of Opium produced in Afghanistan goes through Kosovo to reach western countries.
Do you call this advanced freedom?
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I simply don't support war, because it has so many bad consequences. There are always more civilized ways. 10 years of negotiation are better than 1 month of war, and I know it from my personal experience. But people who didn't experience the war don't really know how looks like.
I don't blame American people for not feeling for other nations in war (respect to exceptions). They had 9/11, and only then they felt how terrible it can be. But that's just one day of terror. It's far from enough to change the view on the world and life. For me, few months of everyday bombing was more than enough to realize what the war is. There are still half demolished buildings in our capitol city, with now already big trees growing from them as a reminder of bombing. And that didn't do any terrorist. That was a legal action of nato army.
Also, when I was in the US I noticed that their news on tv are focusing on things like murders on streets of big cities in US, car crashes, celebrities, American economy.... There are no world news that talk about horrors in many other countries. Only the biggest events are reported, like an earthquake in Japan and so on. TV stations are owned and controlled by oil industry, and everything is subordinated to it. For example, there was a world meeting about global warming in Mexico, and it lasted for days, but I could only hear about it on Pacifica radio, which is an independent radio station. Nothing about it on TV.
I think American people are blessed to live in the country who spares them from bad news, and they are not to blame.
I was in one of the most developed parts of America, Silicon Valley, and I must say that people there are well informed, and have a big knowledge about the world we live in. But I am not sure about parts of the country that are less developed.
I like how American people live, and I think they have a healthier view of their own personal future, exactly because they are spared from reality that lurks across the oceans. They have more freedom to live their dreams, and that is a blessing. People I met are very friendly and open minded, and ready to help, and to give. But very rich people who lead the country, who pay politicians to vote for their interests, and pay minimal taxes on their fortune are another story. I can't really say I like them...
@jbarber873
When America decided to take action in the Europe during world war 2, Russia was on it's way to run over to the France, and America couldn't let that happen. Every powerful country wants to conquer the world, there is nothing new about it. Every empire in the history tried to do it. America is doing the same thing right now, just in a modern way, not with horses and swords.
If you think America is here to advance the freedom, come and live in Kosovo. Kosovo is "free", and full of American military bases. 12 years after military action ironically called "Merciful Angel", people are still suffering on Kosovo, and there are more problems than before 1999. Tens of Monasteries burned, with some of them older than 700 years, more than 200 mosques built in last 10 years with money from Saudi Arabia, and people are paid 300 Euros per month (which is enough to live the whole month) just to join the extremist islamic Wahabi movement. More than one million Serbs ran away from their homes, and Kosovo became almost ethnically pure Albanian. Everyday 80% of Opium produced in Afghanistan goes through Kosovo to reach western countries.
Do you call this advanced freedom?
No, I call it just another day in a thousand years of war in that region. There's always someone else to blame. It's so easy to take no responsibility for anything that happens- just blame someone else. Ask Milosevic who's fault it is- he'll agree with you. After all, the Ottomans aren't around to blame any more, so let's just go after the easy target. Meanwhile, you complain about mosques being built and churches being burned. I understand your meaning... No war, just "ethnic cleansing".
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First of all, I want you to know that I always fought against Milosevic, and I was in Belgrade on that famous october 5th when we brought him down. :)
Second, I was telling you about mosques because monasteries were burnt, and mosques built. That was a real ethnic cleansing. If it was vice versa, be sure that I would mention that, because I also don't support the idea of crusaders spreading Christianity around the world. That was also horrible.
And third, I don't know what you mean by me blaming someone? Who is to blame for ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo?
If you were just here to see columns of people on tractors running away from there, I'm sure you would wonder what happened.
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For jbarber873,
First of all I am a proud American but I do not live in a Norman Rockwell world. I truly wish I did.
Let me make history easy for you.
Iraq War:
1. Military invasion
2. Overthrow ruler
3. Install puppet ruler
4. Sign oil contracts for corporations
5. Build military base next to oil fields
Bang Bang, thank you ma'am!
There is a legitimate point in the Iraq war being wrong, and I agree with you about that. I do not blindly support the actions of the US, but there comes a point where there has to be some balance and reality. There has been so much crap on this thread about conspiracies and the evil US that I felt that someone had to push back. The idea has been posted here that the world trade center was not brought down by planes, but instead was a CIA plot. This kind of garbage gets circulated through the internet and at some point, someone will cite the posts of pseudonymous as "proof" of the real truth. The biggest problem facing the world today is not the US or even islamic radicalism. It's intellectual laziness, the need to find easy answers on the internet, where you can pick and choose your "facts" to suit your own comfortable view. Just slip into it like a warm bath, and you don't have to take any responsibility, or shoulder any burdens. Someone else will make it all better, if you complain enough. ( kind of the microstock mantra, now that i think about it)
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perhaps this would be a good time to wrap this up.
We are getting terribly close to proving Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law), if we haven't already.