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The government controlling the reality of prisoners.. . . a brave new world.
Quote from: RAW on December 27, 2017, 23:52The government controlling the reality of prisoners.. . . a brave new world.Isn't that part of the point of prisons?
Quote from: namussi on December 28, 2017, 00:37Quote from: RAW on December 27, 2017, 23:52The government controlling the reality of prisoners.. . . a brave new world.Isn't that part of the point of prisons?I get what he's saying. This can get out of hand and not just be used in prisons but on other populations of people as well. If you don't like a group of people and or their view points, just use these brain washing techniques. Yes, this stuff can be abused. See how the charter of rights in your country can change due to terrorism. Look at how our freedoms have eroded. Its scary what can happen in the near future.
I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.
Quote from: namussi on December 28, 2017, 01:13I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.It's not stupid.We are already running the US prison system on a for profit basis. That's why we have the largest proportion of our population in prisons. More than any country in the world.What happens when there is only one thing to 'watch' and that is controlled and produced by the government? Or controlled and produced by one private corporation?
Quote from: namussi on December 28, 2017, 01:13I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.We are already running the US prison system on a for profit basis. That's why we have the largest proportion of our population in prisons. More than any country in the world.
Quote from: RAW on December 28, 2017, 10:00Quote from: namussi on December 28, 2017, 01:13I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.We are already running the US prison system on a for profit basis. That's why we have the largest proportion of our population in prisons. More than any country in the world.Very little of the US prison system is run for profit. (I think the figures are something like 10% of state prisoners and 20% of federal prisoners.) So I don't think that's the reason.American voters keep voting for politicians who promise lots of prison sentences ... the longer the better.
Reality is not the one you thinkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlFiHhN8aew
You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.
"A 2011 report by the American Civil Liberties Union point out that private prisons are more costly, more violent and less accountable than public prisons, and are actually a major contributor to increased mass incarceration. This is most apparent in Louisiana, which has the highest incarceration rate in the world and houses the majority of its inmates in for-profit facilities."
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 29, 2017, 09:58You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?
Quote from: namussi on December 30, 2017, 10:22Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 29, 2017, 09:58You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?US is not far from the definition of a police state.People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan. So much for the "land of the free"!
Quote from: Zero Talent on December 31, 2017, 11:24Quote from: namussi on December 30, 2017, 10:22Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 29, 2017, 09:58You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?US is not far from the definition of a police state.People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan. So much for the "land of the free"!Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix....
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 31, 2017, 11:57Quote from: Zero Talent on December 31, 2017, 11:24Quote from: namussi on December 30, 2017, 10:22Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 29, 2017, 09:58You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?US is not far from the definition of a police state.People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan. So much for the "land of the free"!Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix....So the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is anarchy, in your world?No, my friend, the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is a "normal" incarceration rate.All civilised communities rely on laws for cooperation. However, jailing for minor offenses is a police state characteristic.And, for your information, people are going to jail for being poor and unable to pay their debts. Yeah, not paying debts is a crime, but do we really have to fill our prisons with such "criminals"?Read these examples among many other:https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/is-it-a-crime-to-be-poor.html"If you dont believe me, come with me to the county jail in Tulsa. On the day I visited, 23 people were incarcerated for failure to pay government fines and fees, including one woman imprisoned because she couldnt pay a fine for lacking a license plate."And here is a recent article about the re-enforcement of these laws: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/opinion/sessions-says-to-courts-go-ahead-jail-people-because-theyre-poor.html"A veteran battling homelessness in Michigan lost his job when a judge jailed him for bringing only $25 rather than the required $50 first payment to court."It reminds me the story of Jean Valjean in Les Misrables!And don't tell me these are "fake news" from "failing NYTimes", please, because your other "arguments" sound very similar to those coming from some well known small tweeting hands.If you have time and want to smile at this serious matter, watch this: https://youtu.be/0UjpmT5noto
Quote from: Zero Talent on December 31, 2017, 14:35Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 31, 2017, 11:57Quote from: Zero Talent on December 31, 2017, 11:24Quote from: namussi on December 30, 2017, 10:22Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 29, 2017, 09:58You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?US is not far from the definition of a police state.People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan. So much for the "land of the free"!Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix....So the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is anarchy, in your world?No, my friend, the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is a "normal" incarceration rate.All civilised communities rely on laws for cooperation. However, jailing for minor offenses is a police state characteristic.And, for your information, people are going to jail for being poor and unable to pay their debts. Yeah, not paying debts is a crime, but do we really have to fill our prisons with such "criminals"?Read these examples among many other:https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/is-it-a-crime-to-be-poor.html"If you dont believe me, come with me to the county jail in Tulsa. On the day I visited, 23 people were incarcerated for failure to pay government fines and fees, including one woman imprisoned because she couldnt pay a fine for lacking a license plate."And here is a recent article about the re-enforcement of these laws: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/opinion/sessions-says-to-courts-go-ahead-jail-people-because-theyre-poor.html"A veteran battling homelessness in Michigan lost his job when a judge jailed him for bringing only $25 rather than the required $50 first payment to court."It reminds me the story of Jean Valjean in Les Misrables!And don't tell me these are "fake news" from "failing NYTimes", please, because your other "arguments" sound very similar to those coming from some well known small tweeting hands.If you have time and want to smile at this serious matter, watch this: https://youtu.be/0UjpmT5notoYou didn't answer, but your answer is anarchy. No punishment, do what anyone wants. No laws if the person is poor?What is you alternative. Let people with no license plates drive. Let people with no registration or insurance drive? Most of these sad stories of how someone was imprisoned for not paying a fine will be backed by this person having a long history of illegal activity, bad checks, shoplifting, breaking laws and not paying any fines. Don't try to make the criminals look like the victims. How about the people they stole from and the stores that got bad checks. How about their rights?What is your answer? Calling the US a police state is not a solution it's just shouting. What's the solution?
Quote from: Zero Talent on December 31, 2017, 11:24Quote from: namussi on December 30, 2017, 10:22Quote from: YadaYadaYada on December 29, 2017, 09:58You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?US is not far from the definition of a police state.People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan. So much for the "land of the free"!Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix.Young black males without a high school diploma were more likely to be in prison or jail (37 percent) on any given day in 2008 than to be working (26 percent). People without jobs and without education, end up suffering the most. I think we need to fix the education system and help these people get out of poverty and the slums. First step would be schools that teach instead of warehousing kids. Then stop the liberals from passing everyone on and out, as long as they feel good about themselves, and start helping kids learn something.Less Latinos are in jail then blacks because the illegals just get send back or deported. Don't blame crime on race, or blame the system for arresting criminals, that's racist as all hell. Blame the system that doesn't allow equal opportunity for school and jobs. When blacks are in gangs, have more out of wedlock children, or filling prisons, do say, oh its just part of their culture the white people don't understand.If we are all the same, we all need to live together and behave the same with the same laws. There's no free pass for cultural differences, one nation. Stop dividing and start joining together. There are many other minorities other than blacks and latinos, they don't end up in prisons and the poorest areas, with high risk neighborhoods and gangs. Why is that? Maybe there is a cultural difference and some groups aren't joining into the system.Why do the California colleges have set quotas for the number of Asians allowed into a college class, racial discrimination, but have to reserve spots for other minorities, to make sure those less qualified minorities can get into school. Cultural? You bet your ass. If we all get what we earn based on qualifications, work and skills, why do some have to get special treatment to be equal?Pretty much everyone here doesn't like others who get accused of better treatment in the search, a better % rate, more sales because the agency might be favoring them. Then on the forum you defend the same discrimination in the culture you live in? That's strange.People are in jail because they commit crimes and the system prosecutes. There's no bias or law and order agenda that says we need more people in prisons. We need less. My exception to this is any crime committed with a gun should have a mandatory sentence, but you would probably argue that too many people went to prison for that, at the same time crying about gun crimes? Make up your mind.I say better education will make for better opportunities and in the long term less young people in jail because they are living in poverty and poor conditions. With education and skills they can bring themselves out of that cycle. Prisons don't rehabilitate anyone or if they do, it's a small number.If you don't want people in prison, how would you deal with crime? That's my question?
Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.
I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it....So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence deeper flaws in our system.
Back to the OP. I don't know why you would need VR to do it, but teaching people who have been locked up for a long time since their teens how to function in the modern world seems like a good idea to me.
Not to mention that in many states you loose, for the rest of your life, the right to vote if convicted of a felony. Its just another method to replace the Jim Crow Laws after the Civil Rights Act. It has been proven that Black Americans receive harder penalties then whites.Americans don't have a Right to vote in Elections, unlike most countries.
Quote from: Shelma1Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.Valid points Shelma, but you make it sound like a conspiracy.I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it. As seen in the stories I provided links for, there are cases where fines are significantly higher, also for minor offences. Failure to pay those fines can lead to jail.Maybe the reasons behind the "tough on crime" expectations for our politicians derive from the general feel of not being safe Americans have. Maybe it is linked to the wide availability of guns, maybe it is linked to the exacerbated discourse related to terrorism, etc.So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence of deeper flaws in our system.
Quote from: Zero Talent on January 22, 2018, 11:02Quote from: Shelma1Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.Valid points Shelma, but you make it sound like a conspiracy.I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it. As seen in the stories I provided links for, there are cases where fines are significantly higher, also for minor offences. Failure to pay those fines can lead to jail.Maybe the reasons behind the "tough on crime" expectations for our politicians derive from the general feel of not being safe Americans have. Maybe it is linked to the wide availability of guns, maybe it is linked to the exacerbated discourse related to terrorism, etc.So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence of deeper flaws in our system.I used to feel that way. Then I did some reading and found it actually is a conspiracy, unfortunately. The U.S. government has absolutely been involved in efforts over the centuries to purposely keep black people from being properly educated; has given only white G.I.s loans and access to decent housing after they return from war; has crafted laws and longer prison sentences that target specific forms of drugs (crack cocaine rather than powdered, for example, because blacks used more crack and whites more powder); has redlined housing districts to exclude blacks from decent neighborhoods, basically forcing them into ghettos where they are surrounded by crime and receive sub par education. Studies have consistently shown that blacks (and women) receive worse health care than white men. Black people are arrested more often than white people for drug offenses, even though whites are more likely to use drugs. They receive longer prison terms for the same crimes. They're shot to death by police for all kinds of nonsense. Banks purposely charge them outlandish fees while giving white people free banking. Basically, the white establishment does everything it can to keep black people down. It's purposeful, 100%.
This is strange and odd. London passes New York city in murders? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/london-murder-rate-overtakes-new-york-for-first-time-ever-after-spate-of-fatal-stabbings-and-shootings/ar-AAvlxcY?OCID=ansmsnnews11 and because of stabbings. Not that either should brag when 21 or 22 people just died needlessly.
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on April 02, 2018, 14:18This is strange and odd. London passes New York city in murders? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/london-murder-rate-overtakes-new-york-for-first-time-ever-after-spate-of-fatal-stabbings-and-shootings/ar-AAvlxcY?OCID=ansmsnnews11 and because of stabbings. Not that either should brag when 21 or 22 people just died needlessly.If only British people were allowed to carry handguns, then there would be far fewer murders.
Quote from: Shelma1 on January 26, 2018, 09:53Quote from: Zero Talent on January 22, 2018, 11:02Quote from: Shelma1Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.Valid points Shelma, but you make it sound like a conspiracy.I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it. As seen in the stories I provided links for, there are cases where fines are significantly higher, also for minor offences. Failure to pay those fines can lead to jail.Maybe the reasons behind the "tough on crime" expectations for our politicians derive from the general feel of not being safe Americans have. Maybe it is linked to the wide availability of guns, maybe it is linked to the exacerbated discourse related to terrorism, etc.So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence of deeper flaws in our system.I used to feel that way. Then I did some reading and found it actually is a conspiracy, unfortunately. The U.S. government has absolutely been involved in efforts over the centuries to purposely keep black people from being properly educated; has given only white G.I.s loans and access to decent housing after they return from war; has crafted laws and longer prison sentences that target specific forms of drugs (crack cocaine rather than powdered, for example, because blacks used more crack and whites more powder); has redlined housing districts to exclude blacks from decent neighborhoods, basically forcing them into ghettos where they are surrounded by crime and receive sub par education. Studies have consistently shown that blacks (and women) receive worse health care than white men. Black people are arrested more often than white people for drug offenses, even though whites are more likely to use drugs. They receive longer prison terms for the same crimes. They're shot to death by police for all kinds of nonsense. Banks purposely charge them outlandish fees while giving white people free banking. Basically, the white establishment does everything it can to keep black people down. It's purposeful, 100%.I don't deny the existence of racism in America. It is very much present, no doubt about this. But I am very certain that racism is present in many other countries, where it is not acknowledged. Anti-Gypsy racism in Eastern Europe comes to mind, as an example. Islamophobia (although this is not racism, in theory) is pretty much present throughout Western Europe and beyond.Some might not even realise the level of the racism in their countries, because they never had the chance to meet and interact with people of a different race.Yet, most of this countries point fingers towards American racism, a lot being oblivious to what's going on under their nose. This is because racism in America is constantly and openly debated, in the news, in politics, etc.Having said that, I rather believe that we deal with a vicious circle, where poverty leads to more poverty, because of a broken system. A system where we allow government too much power, power to setup stupid, arbitrary laws, excessive fines and a plethora of economical barriers impacting mainly the poor, preventing them to express their true potential and to grow out of poverty.