Author Topic: Why are we losing so many members? (Read 35552 times)

Ariene · « **on:** June 11, 2014, 04:32 »

Ron? What happened with Ron? His nick is not active anymore... What did I miss?

Edit
Subject changed.

ethan · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2014, 05:08 »

I think it's happened before under different pseudonyms. He did say recently that he might 'rejoin' MSG anonymously after the treatment he got from FT for voicing opposition against DPC.

If that's the reason he's closed his account I don't blame him.

Its a sad fact that recent events have clearly shown that admins can punish individuals for speaking out at what we feel is unfair or unjust treatment of our intellectual property.

There was another issue posted yesterday on the SS forum where there was a 'suspicion that an admin (know also to come and post here) might have accessed two contributors accounts (one of them being Ron's). I doubt that would happen, but nowadays who knows what these characters can get up to

PixelBytes · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2014, 08:25 »

Maybe there will be more comments if the title was not so random?

I also notice Ron was gone. Hope he comes back anonymous.

Ariene · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2014, 08:51 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on June 11, 2014, 08:25

Maybe there will be more comments if the title was not so random?

What can you offer?

Btw. Where is Lisa...?
Who is next?

PixelBytes · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2014, 10:06 »

Quote from: Ariene on June 11, 2014, 08:51

Quote from: PixelBytes on June 11, 2014, 08:25
Maybe there will be more comments if the title was not so random?

What can you offer?

Maybe "Where is Ron?" would be more descriptive of the subject? Or "Why are we losing so many members?"

I don't know. I just think many people don't click on a topic if it is not clear what its about. Do what ever you want. Just a suggestion.

ShadySue · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2014, 10:11 »

Quote from: Ariene on June 11, 2014, 08:51

Quote from: PixelBytes on June 11, 2014, 08:25
Maybe there will be more comments if the title was not so random?

What can you offer?

Btw. Where is Lisa...?
Who is next?

Lisa is taking extended time out because she didn't like that her post got hidden after ten negative votes on the DPC issue. (That policy has been changed now.)

ethan · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2014, 10:15 »

Quote from: ShadySue on June 11, 2014, 10:11

Quote from: Ariene on June 11, 2014, 08:51
Quote from: PixelBytes on June 11, 2014, 08:25
Maybe there will be more comments if the title was not so random?

What can you offer?

Btw. Where is Lisa...?
Who is next?

Lisa is taking extended time out because she didn't like that her post got hidden after ten negative votes on the DPC issue. (That policy has been changed now.)

Then 'Leaf' should contact her and personally apologise for having had such a stupid system in place to start with, tell her it's gone and invite her back.

What's the point in a 'so-called' independent and essentially 'frank point-of-view-forum' if someone can be voted off (or made invisible) just because they have a different view point from the mob.

That policy just supported angry villagers with pitchforks.........

Mantis · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2014, 11:38 »

Retaliation. FT closed my account, Ron's account, and one other real big name in retaliation for speaking up about their corrupt abuse of contributor assets. This is one major reason Ron left. The other is personal attacks I believe. Leaf has been sanitizing threads more than ever because many posts become personal.

But the FOTOLIA abuse is an undeniable reason why people go stealth in here. Those who claim anonymity bears no or little weight in terms of the value of their post can go suck a lemon. Not being anonymous is costing some people chunks of their livelihood.

ethan · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2014, 11:47 »

Quote from: Mantis on June 11, 2014, 11:38

Those who claim anonymity bears no or little weight in terms of the value of their post can go suck a lemon. Not being anonymous is costing some people chunks of their livelihood.

Could not agree more.

Albeit we'll all be voted down by the couple of people that think we are all trolls.

They know who they are, 'freebie guy's'

ethan · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2014, 12:15 »

There ya go

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2014, 12:33 »

Why are we losing so many members? I think that should be obvious.

This place can quickly get confrontational, insulting, and off topic over the most innocent of posts. Even people with the thickest of skin have a rough time here. Insulting someone is easier when you're not face to face. I don't come here or post as much because it's mostly arguing, very little help, and when people try to help nobody listens or they're told they're wrong or have their motives questioned.

Waiting for the angry mob with torches and pitchforks.

donding · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2014, 12:40 »

What is the purpose of the + and - system anyway. We all know when we agree or disagree with some ones views. I don't post on here very often. I've been bashed for things I've said, but that is because of varing views. I don't understand why there isn't more respect for those who don't think the same. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

EmberMike · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2014, 12:51 »

The + / - system has devolved into a schoolyard popularity voting system. It's not based on the actual post being read, it's about whether or not people like you and whether they agree or disagree with your general views on things. I'm not exactly popular in the DPC thread but I'm sure I'll get down votes on this post just because of what I've said about the DPC issue.

Straight-up facts get down votes. You could post 2+2=4 and someone will click that arrow.

This is just a hostile forum lately. I don't blame anyone for leaving. I've left and (reluctantly) come back. I've considered anonymity, but not because I'm worried about what agencies think of my views. I'm more concerned with just being associated with this forum lately. The more this turns into the pitchfork brigade, the more I consider needing to distance myself from that stigma.

gbalex · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2014, 12:51 »

Quote from: ethan on June 11, 2014, 11:47

Quote from: Mantis on June 11, 2014, 11:38
Those who claim anonymity bears no or little weight in terms of the value of their post can go suck a lemon. Not being anonymous is costing some people chunks of their livelihood.

Could not agree more.

Albeit we'll all be voted down by the couple of people that think we are all trolls.

They know who they are, 'freebie guy's'

I can count on a few people consistently attacking me here on MSG, no matter what I post. They seem to have a particular aversion to simple facts. They also vote down every post I make.

This link is a perfect example, I simply posted a link to positive news and received personal bashing.

http://tinyurl.com/pne46uc

cthoman · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2014, 13:21 »

Quote from: donding on June 11, 2014, 12:40

What is the purpose of the + and - system anyway. We all know when we agree or disagree with some ones views. I don't post on here very often. I've been bashed for things I've said, but that is because of varing views. I don't understand why there isn't more respect for those who don't think the same. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I like it, but I guess that is the point. Liking things without actually commenting on them. I rarely use the minus, so I could probably do without that. Maybe, I'm just a positive reinforcement kind of guy (except when I'm arguing with people over stupid garbage).

gostwyck · « **Reply #15 on:** June 11, 2014, 13:22 »

I think what's happening to MSG is symptomatic of what's happening in microstock generally.

There's precious little optimism about the future which is in stark contrast to the first few years of microstock. I think most 'old timers', say those that have been doing microstock since 2006 or earlier, largely accept by now that their incomes from microstock probably peaked a couple of years ago and the only question now is how rapid the future decline will be ... and whether it is even worth trying to do anything about it.

With so many new images coming on-line each week and the difficulty of getting early sales for new work, before they disappear into ignominy forever, it's increasingly questionable whether the time and effort are worth it. When at best all you can hope for is to slow the decline it may be the time to devote your energies elsewhere.

It's not really fun anymore and therefore some microstockers are simply less motivated to discuss issues.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #16 on:** June 11, 2014, 14:22 »

Quote from: gostwyck on June 11, 2014, 13:22

I think what's happening to MSG is symptomatic of what's happening in microstock generally.

There's precious little optimism about the future which is in stark contrast to the first few years of microstock. I think most 'old timers', say those that have been doing microstock since 2006 or earlier, largely accept by now that their incomes from microstock probably peaked a couple of years ago and the only question now is how rapid the future decline will be ... and whether it is even worth trying to do anything about it.

With so many new images coming on-line each week and the difficulty of getting early sales for new work, before they disappear into ignominy forever, it's increasingly questionable whether the time and effort are worth it. When at best all you can hope for is to slow the decline it may be the time to devote your energies elsewhere.

It's not really fun anymore and therefore some microstockers are simply less motivated to discuss issues.

Makes sense. Also explains why so many that do post are angry or insulting.

PS. Thank you Ariene for the new title. Heart for you!

Lev · « **Reply #17 on:** June 11, 2014, 14:39 »

because anger/professionalism ratio on this forum is fubar.

who would want to communicate here?

it's all about "stocks generally suck (well, SS probably maybe has some tiny little chance, but it's so dangerous), marketplace owners are greedy capitalists, flying helicopters abound empire state building while firing cigars with our hardly earned 100 usd bills, etc, etc, etc".

everyone who has different opinion on anything than "majority" has, gets witchhunted. this place sadly became very communist. i grew up in communist country, so i know what i say.

take a look at recent communications EmberMike got from this forum members. wow.

sad to say it, but i hardly believe any major market player is interested in communication here now. what's the point to speak with people who do not even care about TRYING to understand what they are reading.

EmberMike · « **Reply #18 on:** June 11, 2014, 14:52 »

Quote from: Ariene on June 11, 2014, 04:32

Ron? What happened with Ron?

I got a message on fb from Ron that he left because of the negative responses/votes he got when he was discussing his weight loss and hiking adventures.

Can't say I blame him. You can't even talk about something non-microstock around here without some down votes just because someone doesn't like you. It's sort of indicative of the whole atmosphere around here lately.

robhainer · « **Reply #19 on:** June 11, 2014, 15:05 »

I can tell you why I don't come here often. People like to take things personal and get nasty when you don't follow the party line. And then there's the group who think their crap don't stink while all other microstock contributors are a bunch of amateurs. Can't count how many times I see that bit of arrogance.

But even when the topic of the debate is over they still want to make it personal and attack you over other issues. People need to learn to disagree without being disagreeable. And then there's the overall level of negativity that just never stops.

takestock · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2014, 15:52 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 11, 2014, 12:33

Why are we losing so many members? I think that should be obvious.

This place can quickly get confrontational, insulting, and off topic over the most innocent of posts. Even people with the thickest of skin have a rough time here. Insulting someone is easier when you're not face to face. I don't come here or post as much because it's mostly arguing, very little help, and when people try to help nobody listens or they're told they're wrong or have their motives questioned.

I totally agree with you!
Quite a few here now who like to score points, challenge posts and try to make others think that they are much smarter than them.
It leaves one thinking why bother participating and that's probably the reasons why members drop away.

Waiting for the angry mob with torches and pitchforks.

jefftakespics2 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 11, 2014, 15:59 »

I'm fairly new to the forum and stock, about a year and a half, but am an old timer in photography, mostly photojournalism and have been a member of many organizations and forums over the years. MSG has a lot of great members with great ideas, but it also, at time, digresses into one of the nastiest forums I have been in. I think this hurts it a lot and also creates an extremely unprofessional environment. Opposing views should be welcomed and disagreement should be at least moderately civilized.

ethan · « **Reply #22 on:** June 11, 2014, 16:13 »

Quote from: jrwasserman on June 11, 2014, 15:59

I'm fairly new to the forum and stock, about a year and a half, but am an old timer in photography, mostly photojournalism and have been a member of many organizations and forums over the years. MSG has a lot of great members with great ideas, but it also, at time, digresses into one of the nastiest forums I have been in. I think this hurts it a lot and also creates an extremely unprofessional environment. Opposing views should be welcomed and disagreement should be at least moderately civilized.

It can be an aggressive and confrontational environment, I accept that.

But, (there's always a but), as a 'profession' (and we are) as photographers we need strong minded, determined and robust characters to protect our (shared) business interests. We actually do need to stand united against the collective threats to our business and long term survival.

Passions will sometimes run high (and yes) occasionally overspill, but (again) if we cannot stand together and resist unfair, unjust and exploitation by corrupt, morally bankrupt agencies that act against our best interests we are most certainly doomed.

WE ARE THE TALENT - the agencies are strictly BACKSTAGE - never forget that fact. It is a fact by the way, we are the talent that produce the product that customers buy. A very important point.

And when there is a fight that spills onto these forums pages it is usually, in the final analysis, about the fundamentals of what is best for us all as stock photographers. A big 'pinch of salt' should be added before we condemn our professional colleagues that are essentially trying to make a point for all our benefits. We're not all eloquent, and English may not be our mother tongue, but what unites us as one, is that we are photographers, and we should be one voice.

donding · « **Reply #23 on:** June 11, 2014, 16:25 »

Quote from: EmberMike on June 11, 2014, 14:52

I got a message on fb from Ron that he left because of the negative responses/votes he got when he was discussing his weight loss and hiking adventures.

Can't say I blame him. You can't even talk about something non-microstock around here without some down votes just because someone doesn't like you. It's sort of indicative of the whole atmosphere around here lately.

When I first started visiting these forums I got attacked by some because I had brought up things about my childhood....happy not negative. I got ignored by many on here because they said this had nothing to do with photography. This was in the "Off Topic" forum. Then I tried to point out the abuse that was unleased on the newbie's when they would ask questions and got bashed about that. I got bashed about bringing that up. It seems it has gotten worse with time, which is why I don't visit these forums that much anymore. I just think that everyone needs to respect others opinions and not put a target on their backs because of it.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2014, 22:48 »

Quote from: ethan on June 11, 2014, 16:13

And when there is a fight that spills onto these forums pages it is usually, in the final analysis, about the fundamentals of what is best for us all as stock photographers. A big 'pinch of salt' should be added before we condemn our professional colleagues that are essentially trying to make a point for all our benefits. We're not all eloquent, and English may not be our mother tongue, but what unites us as one, is that we are photographers, and we should be one voice.

I agree with many things you said but I don't think we are all going to be in agreement all the time about what is the best action to take or even what is the right opinion to have. Very rarely that we can expect to speak with one voice. It seems like the big problem is that those smaller disagreeing voices are the ones that are getting silenced or are leaving.

cthoman · « **Reply #25 on:** June 12, 2014, 00:00 »

I've always seen it as an honest representation of a diverse group of people. Characters come and go and opinions are some times wild and occasionally offensive. I try to take it all in stride, have an open mind, but still express my opinions. At the end of the day, I consider this forum just a way to have a little fun, get some info, and break up part of the day.

leaf · « **Reply #26 on:** June 12, 2014, 01:12 »

Quote from: ethan on June 11, 2014, 10:15

Quote from: ShadySue on June 11, 2014, 10:11
Quote from: Ariene on June 11, 2014, 08:51
Quote from: PixelBytes on June 11, 2014, 08:25
Maybe there will be more comments if the title was not so random?

What can you offer?

Btw. Where is Lisa...?
Who is next?

Lisa is taking extended time out because she didn't like that her post got hidden after ten negative votes on the DPC issue. (That policy has been changed now.)

Then 'Leaf' should contact her and personally apologise for having had such a stupid system in place to start with, tell her it's gone and invite her back.

What's the point in a 'so-called' independent and essentially 'frank point-of-view-forum' if someone can be voted off (or made invisible) just because they have a different view point from the mob.

That policy just supported angry villagers with pitchforks.........

Yes, we exchanged emails a day or two after she closed her account and after the hidden posts 'feature' was scrapped. She knows she is welcomed back.

Gino · « **Reply #27 on:** June 12, 2014, 01:30 »

I hardly post anything and if I post I first check if everything is save. But mostly I like to read so I don't miss the latest news. I think microstock is doing great and there are so many gaps to be filled and coming/existing trends to use. But this gets down votes. I make a full income from stock. Just 1,5 years ago I earned about $200 from stock per month. From that point I put my shoulders into it. Researched what sold and what did not. Got my conclusions from my online images and at this point I make $4200 per month and my income is growing every month. I only add about 50 images a month. So yes I am positive about stock. Sharing this info? Better not... so please keep this to yourself. I might get voted down. There are many microstockers that do great but they don't share there information here. Trend here is to be negative and if you are positive you get voted down or people think you are lying.

leaf · « **Reply #28 on:** June 12, 2014, 02:43 »

Congrats on the success Gino. I also agree that there is a lot of room for growth and new images if you know where to look. I also agree that the popular opinion on here is a negative one. It is certainly not uncommon in any social arena to have silence when things are going well and lots of noise when things aren't as successful - but still, I hope we can change the tone on here to be a bit more positive.

... I'll do my best to help that happen

ethan · « **Reply #29 on:** June 12, 2014, 05:59 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on June 11, 2014, 22:48

Quote from: ethan on June 11, 2014, 16:13
And when there is a fight that spills onto these forums pages it is usually, in the final analysis, about the fundamentals of what is best for us all as stock photographers. A big 'pinch of salt' should be added before we condemn our professional colleagues that are essentially trying to make a point for all our benefits. We're not all eloquent, and English may not be our mother tongue, but what unites us as one, is that we are photographers, and we should be one voice.

I agree with many things you said but I don't think we are all going to be in agreement all the time about what is the best action to take or even what is the right opinion to have. Very rarely that we can expect to speak with one voice. It seems like the big problem is that those smaller disagreeing voices are the ones that are getting silenced or are leaving.

You're right. It was a bit of a romantic notion hoping we would all agree on anything.

In my defence, I posted that message after my family and I had eaten our evening meal together and having partaken in two rather large glasses of red I was probably feeling a little too relaxed - and maybe a little romantic

StanRohrer · « **Reply #30 on:** June 12, 2014, 07:08 »

Quote from: leaf on June 12, 2014, 02:43

Congrats on the success Gino. I also agree that there is a lot of room for growth and new images if you know where to look. I also agree that the popular opinion on here is a negative one. It is certainly not uncommon in any social arena to have silence when things are going well and lots of noise when things aren't as successful - but still, I hope we can change the tone on here to be a bit more positive.

... I'll do my best to help that happen

As much as I would like less negativity here, I also have watched iStocks forums. They tried to curtail the negativity (justified?) and today the forums are almost a useless ghost town. iStock's forums in he early days were part of the schtick that formed the group of contributors that made iStock great. Now - not so much - on many fronts. I think limiting/removing the personal attacks are good. I think limiting the overheated exchanges are good. Just don't cut to deep and curtail opposition views. Unlike iStock, we need the opposing views and we need somehow to keep them as lively debate of many sides of the issues.

takestock · « **Reply #31 on:** June 12, 2014, 07:08 »

You won't be losing me as a member.
However, my participation will be "moderate" in the near future until the atmosphere of the forum improves..
When I suggested recently that there was a vein of negativity running through this forum, I was quickly shot down .
Now, as we can see from other posts in this thread, there are others who also believe my take on it.

For me it's just too much of an arena where confrontations abound, point scoring is high on the list, and putting down people to try and show that they are better than others.
I recently put up a thread which was challenged as if to show my stupidity.

Maybe those who write in such a dominating way would be better spent in creative mode, making images to sell rather than coming in here and trying to boss people around.

I have written this in defence of the many decent long standing members who partake here and who sadly have been subjected to some of the above.

The situation can only get better!

leaf · « **Reply #32 on:** June 12, 2014, 07:18 »

Quote from: StanRohrer on June 12, 2014, 07:08

Quote from: leaf on June 12, 2014, 02:43
Congrats on the success Gino. I also agree that there is a lot of room for growth and new images if you know where to look. I also agree that the popular opinion on here is a negative one. It is certainly not uncommon in any social arena to have silence when things are going well and lots of noise when things aren't as successful - but still, I hope we can change the tone on here to be a bit more positive.

... I'll do my best to help that happen

As much as I would like less negativity here, I also have watched iStocks forums. They tried to curtail the negativity (justified?) and today the forums are almost a useless ghost town. iStock's forums in he early days were part of the schtick that formed the group of contributors that made iStock great. Now - not so much - on many fronts. I think limiting/removing the personal attacks are good. I think limiting the overheated exchanges are good. Just don't cut to deep and curtail opposition views. Unlike iStock, we need the opposing views and we need somehow to keep them as lively debate of many sides of the issues.

I think that heated debate and apposing views can still take place without attacks or negativity. It's just easier to start insulting and being negative than anything else.. perhaps the vice people turn to when they run out of arguments. Either way, i agree. Things need to be improved here, but that doesn't mean silencing any opinions.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #33 on:** June 12, 2014, 07:42 »

If you asked me give the names of a group of members that attack people for their opinions I couldn't come up with even two people that consistently act as a "gang" and victimize others.

For the most part the people that have been on here a while are very independently minded and argue with each other as much as with anyone else.

I struggle to understand what people mean when they talk about everyone here collectively as negative or bullying. We are all individuals with our own opinions, if everyone that walked off had stayed they'd easily out number the one or two people that tend to speak more "directly".

People just don't like it when they express an opinion and some others strongly disagree with it. The solution is to stop seeing everyone else as an amalgam and feeling victimized when a few people don't agree. It's very easy to only see the negative views when they are directed against you.

(of course I am not talking about the the people that occasionally pop up to rudely attack other members or agencies then disappear again. There's not a lot you can do about that except banning them till they sneak back in, I am talking about the regular members here)

bunhill · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2014, 07:55 »

Quote from: leaf on June 12, 2014, 07:18

I think that heated debate and apposing views can still take place without attacks or negativity. It's just easier to start insulting and being negative than anything else.. perhaps the vice people turn to when they run out of arguments. Either way, i agree. Things need to be improved here, but that doesn't mean silencing any opinions.

Why not get rid of the voting ? At least as an experiment. Negative voting makes it possible for people to silently express their negativity towards what someone has said but without presenting any coherent counter argument. Positive voting on an essentially negative post is the equal opposite. I am as guilty of this as everyone else.

If we disagree with someone, or do not understand, then the response should be to politely represent a counter opinion or to ask for a point to be further explained. Too often here the response is snarky and / or aggressive.

IMO there is far too much pointless emotion and far too little logical analysis of how many of the current models are inevitably evolving. It all becomes rather pointlessly them-vs-us.

Lev · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2014, 08:54 »

this voting system is ridiculous.

for example, someone recently asked "what do you see in 3 years from now"

well, i personally see 10x multiplied revenue in 3 years. but i didn't even bother to post it, coz i know in advance this positively-realistic expectation will gather negative votes.

and then i will not be able to fool myself with "i gave my answer because most of people here ARE NOT #%$#s".

of course, i still remember the way people treated Yuri here when he said he went exclusive, if i would need any reminder THEY REALLY ARE. but voting system works as a constant reminder anyway.

very, very unpleasant community.

most likely it's my last posting here.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2014, 09:15 »

Honestly this is the sort of thing I mean. Someone has a personality clash with really only one other member and all of a sudden the whole forum is "unprofessional" and a bunch of "#%$#s" (whatever that means).

U11 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2014, 09:15 »

Quote from: bunhill on June 12, 2014, 07:55

Why not get rid of the voting ?

I think the voting system is a great feature of this site.
It is very simple and powerful feedback mechanism.
I miss it very much on sites like FB. Where _anything_ can accumulate _positive_ likes with a time.

Goofy · « **Reply #38 on:** June 12, 2014, 09:21 »

I feel the current is good as well. The negative points don't count against you but kind of tell you that you are barking up the wrong tree. On some sites the negatives get taken out of your total score - ie Photosig.com where you can get a negative score on your submitted image. FB really doesn't improve or show you that your image is a good one.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #39 on:** June 12, 2014, 10:09 »

I must confess to being somewhat confused as to what is meant by "negativity". I upset someone the other day - and he was more upset that I got a pile of "up" votes for what he regarded as a libel. I have a bad habit of saying what I think and the "up" votes imply that quite a lot of other people thought the same (his "up" votes for his response show that a number of others didn't perceive what he was saying the same way I did). The fact that I upset him actually gave him a reason for explaining his position more fully. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Leaf posted a mild rebuke to me, so I must assume that according to current thinking I was guilty of being insulting and negative. Which creates the odd situation that it is positive to argue that resistance is useless and negative to argue that through action we might achieve change. Or perhaps I'm just too blunt in what I say and I should resort to dissembling or circumlocution in order to achieve a degree of obfuscation that will leave people perplexed and bemused as they attempt to construe the import of the intelligence I seek to impart.

Oh, look! I CAN be obscure if I try!

PixelBytes · « **Reply #40 on:** June 12, 2014, 10:56 »

I am also confused about what is meant by "negativity". There is hostility and fighting amongst contributors, and then there is the complaining about sales or the latest move by this or that distributor.

The personal attacks should be controlled. We can treat each other with courtesy. But posting negative criticisms of distributors or complaints about sales is the kind of "negativity" that can also be useful to know and make positive actions.

cthoman · « **Reply #41 on:** June 12, 2014, 11:24 »

Quote from: dolgachov on June 12, 2014, 08:54

this voting system is ridiculous.

for example, someone recently asked "what do you see in 3 years from now"

well, i personally see 10x multiplied revenue in 3 years. but i didn't even bother to post it, coz i know in advance this positively-realistic expectation will gather negative votes.

and then i will not be able to fool myself with "i gave my answer because most of people here ARE NOT #%$#s".

of course, i still remember the way people treated Yuri here when he said he went exclusive, if i would need any reminder THEY REALLY ARE. but voting system works as a constant reminder anyway.

very, very unpleasant community.

most likely it's my last posting here.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being positive when everyone else is negative or being negative when everyone else is positive. I know I've been on the wrong side of the fence in some of these conversations, but I think it is important to get the opinions or your own story out there anyway.

There can be a certain presentation or tact to saying those things though. It never helps your argument when you look like your rubbing your success in other people's faces. I think Yuri came off that way in his exclusive deal. I'm not sure if that is what he meant to do, but that's what ended up happening. I usually don't take those things personally because inappropriateness is usually hilarious.

Pixart · « **Reply #42 on:** June 12, 2014, 11:40 »

Everyone must be frustrated with one or more of their agents, our personal circles of friends and family have no clue what this business is about so it's difficult to have a proper "vent", we come here already riled up and fearful only to read about more discouraging news - by then respect sensors have been turned off and everyone is kicking the proverbial dog - or in this case - their peers.

But, I have been to much more hostile forums.

Red Dove · « **Reply #43 on:** June 12, 2014, 13:20 »

For me:

1) not enough active contributors - fresh meat is needed
2) the same old faces saying the same old things over and OVER again ad nauseum in the belief we are all stupid or blind
3) too few solutions offered up for far too many problems
4) visibility of any hard data to back up bold statements about the way the business is going
5) animosity towards anyone not compelled to wallow in the collective misery or who actually believes there is still work to do and money to be made
6) The stupid voting system

PS. Really don't understand all the kerfuffle around Yuri. Like him or not, If he succeeds in giving Getty and Istock a well deserved kick up the arse....more power to his right foot as far as I'm concerned.

leaf · « **Reply #44 on:** June 12, 2014, 13:37 »

A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.

Digital66 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 12, 2014, 13:47 »

Quote from: leaf on June 12, 2014, 13:37

A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.

Sorry Leaf, but one of the most annoying things in any forum is a moderator removing posts. Censorship is a quick way to lose members.

Oldhand · « **Reply #46 on:** June 12, 2014, 15:46 »

I don't post much because of a lack of time. I dip in when I can, offer an opinion when I feel the need, then get back to work.

Lot's of great people on here and a lot of experience. The personal arguments however are tedious and childish. Many a time I've thought of posting something of interest on here, only to decide against it.

Yes, currently it's an open forum and one which is moderated to the best of an individuals ability. Unless extreme personal criticisms and hugely off topic and inappropriate remarks are really carefully policed, this group is in danger of losing credibility going forward.

That would be a shame; if the forum conducted itself more professionally it could be a more active and unified force for change in Microstock.

ppdd · « **Reply #47 on:** June 12, 2014, 15:59 »

Quote from: leaf on June 12, 2014, 13:37

A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.

This is Leaf's site, he can do what he feels is necessary. And he's been very hands off - no complaints from me, and I don't feel his stepping in has ever damaged this forum or participation.

gostwyck · « **Reply #48 on:** June 12, 2014, 17:27 »

Quote from: leaf on June 12, 2014, 13:37

A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.

That's a pity. I was out playing golf so missed them. Makes me wonder what the big fuss was all about!

bunhill · « **Reply #49 on:** June 12, 2014, 17:56 »

Quote from: Veronica on June 12, 2014, 17:41

You have 5500 comments and 3500 hearts, I had 4000 comments and 5500 hearts, so I had more constructive things to say people agreed with

Here is the reality of the voting system and how it actually plays out. A point scoring contest.

ultimagina · « **Reply #50 on:** June 12, 2014, 18:33 »

Lol, who cares about that voting system?

I thought that microstock people are not interested in the like system from FB or Flickr favorites. Otherwise they would offer their photos for free screen captures from FB and collect tons of futile likes.
I find much more rewarding to know that someone spent real money for my photo. 33c for a photo is worth infinite more than a ton free likes on FB.
Someone, somewhere really appreciates my sh#t, if I'm getting paid real money for it!

I'm surprised to see a race for votes on this forum, and even more: people suffering for it!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

rene · « **Reply #51 on:** June 12, 2014, 19:41 »

Quote from: dolgachov on June 11, 2014, 14:39

who would want to communicate here?
...
sad to say it, but i hardly believe any major market player is interested in communication here now. what's the point to speak with people who do not even care about TRYING to understand what they are reading.

This forum is not perfect.
But until now it is the only place I know that a reliable information could be found. And relatively objective view of what happens in microstock could be generated based on discussions here.
Many "major market players", including agencies, are regularly taking a look to our discussions here.
I bet that same agencies have their "agents" here with missions to "sabotage" this place.

jefftakespics2 · « **Reply #52 on:** June 12, 2014, 19:56 »

Quote from: rene on June 12, 2014, 19:41

Quote from: dolgachov on June 11, 2014, 14:39
who would want to communicate here?
...
sad to say it, but i hardly believe any major market player is interested in communication here now. what's the point to speak with people who do not even care about TRYING to understand what they are reading.
This forum is not perfect.
But until now it is the only place I know that a reliable information could be found. And relatively objective view of what happens in microstock could be generated based on discussions here.
Many "major market players", including agencies, are regularly taking a look to our discussions here.
I bet that same agencies have their "agents" here with missions to "sabotage" this place.

This forum has been invaluable to me. The knowledge and expertise of members here is amazing and I have learned more about the business here than anywhere else. All the more reason to exhibit at least a minimum amount of professional decorum. Disagreement and good arguments are great, but personal attacks bring it down to a childish level. We all lose respect when it devolves into childish name-calling.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #53 on:** June 12, 2014, 21:54 »

What's ironic is my post got removed where I was just proving my point that after three pages this post got totally off topic into bashing someone.

JPSDK · « **Reply #54 on:** June 12, 2014, 23:03 »

I think we should introduce a new voting systyem with a "skull and bone" icon, that could be used when you really dislike people.

What I mean to say is that the voting system brings the worst out in people and deteriorates the forums much, because it forces everything in a personal direction.

Fixing it would be easy, just remove the down voting option.

wordplanet · « **Reply #55 on:** June 12, 2014, 23:53 »

The anonymity of the internet - or the feeling that you're anonymous when you post even if people know who you are - seems to sometimes bring out the worst in people. Seeing it here can be a turn off. But there is a lot of positive info on this forum. I certainly appreciate strangers taking the time to answer a question when I've posted. But I'd feel differently if I felt that everything I said was going to be voted down by someone who had it out for me. Robust discussion can be constructive. Schoolyard name calling is another matter.

Having an off-topic section is a nice way for people who tend to spend too much time alone - taking photos or working on their computers - to share things and civility when someone posts about an upcoming vacation or something else they're excited about should be the norm. Bad months at the agencies are tough enough without having to face minus signs or personal attacks - especially when posting about something as innocuous and personal as a vacation/weight loss -I can see why those who've been attacked once too often want to leave - but I hope that doesn't happen too often. If we all agreed with each other this forum would be boring.

ruxpriencdiam · « **Reply #56 on:** June 12, 2014, 23:55 »

Quote from: JPSDK on June 12, 2014, 23:03

I think we should introduce a new voting systyem with a "skull and bone" icon, that could be used when you really dislike people.

Yeah!

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #57 on:** June 14, 2014, 13:52 »

Dead topic, then.

gillian vann · « **Reply #58 on:** June 15, 2014, 04:48 »

I would also say that in the early days I loved the knowledge here, and as a newbie I know this place brought me up to speed very quickly. However, I was still a successful person in my own life (in another realm) but that counted for nought. Still does. I come here now to catch up with the latest developments. For positivity I go elsewhere. It's a shame that this can't also be a place to discuss new trends and encourage/support each other, but it's not. It's actually a bit toxic.

Frankly, if 80% don't like what I say then I know i'm still on the right track - I live with the 20%.

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