MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Panthermedia.net => Topic started by: takestock on June 04, 2008, 16:24
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I've been there a few months now and there is zero happening for me.
What's your experience?
Looks like another plug to be pulled!!
I see it has been dropped from the Up & Coming list here.
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I did put a lot of effort in midstock-sites my personal experience is that they are suffering heavily. Midstock seems to have not much future anymore. Every Midstock-site (most are german) have fewer pics and not much better quality than the big 6 Microstocksites often they have nearly the same pics. It's just a matter of time than Midstock will be washed away. I still have monthly sales with PM but it's about the same as two years ago with a portfolio more than thirty times bigger than two years ago - go figure! There was a healthy midstock-scene in Germany not so long ago but they lost huge market-share especially to FUtolia!
The only sure harbour currently seems to be the RM-Collections of the big two unfortunately its extremely hard to get anything accepted by them.
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I uploaded 100 a couple of months ago and I am now getting a few sales. It is nice to see higher prices and in euros. Only a few rejections so far. I am going to stick with them and upload my portfolio.
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I've uploaded a heap but haven't had time to push more than a few images through the approval process thing. so far have got 50 accepted with 16 rejections (illustrated backgrounds). Those 50 are not spectacular but have got me 3 sales (about 60 euro) in the past 5-6 weeks.
So personally I am pretty happy so far.
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Dump It.
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Dump It.
Did you upload your portfolio there and give them a year before coming to that conclusion? They take a few months to sell but from what I have seen they sell much better than mostphotos.
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I've got my first sale many months ago; and then several months later I've got a second one. Then I don't have any for several months... So I wonder are there really regular sales, and are they higher than for example bigstock or 123rf? My portfolio is very small at PM (just several tens pictures); and upload process is lengthy so I wonder if it worth the time/effort spent...
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Hello,
upload process is lengthy
MikLav, we are about to introduce a new upload system within the next 2 - 4 weeks.
;)
My portfolio is very small at PM (just several tens pictures)
With respect to this fact it´s difficult to comment.... .
All the best,
Andy
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My portfolio is very small at PM (just several tens pictures)
With respect to this fact it´s difficult to comment.... .
Of course :)
So I hope some other members who have bigger portfolios at PM could share their impressions... I have about 1000 photos that I could upload - not a huge amount but not too low - so I wonder if my efforts for uploading will be paid back in reasonable time.
And indeed thanks for the good news about new upload process !
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So I hope some other members who have bigger portfolios at PM could share their impressions... I have about 1000 photos that I could upload - not a huge amount but not too low - so I wonder if my efforts for uploading will be paid back in reasonable time.
I have 776 files up on PM. Started there in April 2007.
With the same files up on the big micros I have made more in my best single month each on Istock, FT, Shutter and Dreamstime than in the total two years on PM.
My average RPI over the total time I'm with these agencies is ten times higher on FT than on PM, fifteen times higher on SS than on PM.
That about says it for me, but maybe it's just my kind of pics that doesn't sell well on PM.
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I have sporadic sales, but they only have about 5% of my portfolio there so I couldnt really say in comparison to other sites. I decided that the uploading procedure was to time intensive for the expected return and pretty much gave up on them (I have some images sitting in ftp folder which I click a few through when I'm in the mood). personally I would be very interested to see the new upload method in a few weeks, if looks quick enough then I will upload to them
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i have 34 images there for a test, thirty images either "ed tip" or "recomendation" and no rejection of any images
i do not even get views, a few have one view, a few have 4 views but most have no views. My portfolio has been up for four months
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started to submit to PM in Jan/Feb 2008
close to 500 pictures right now (~1/3 of my microstock portfolio)
6 pictures sold - getting close to my 2nd payout
pushing more pictures through submission only when I have time
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I've sent email with few questions to PM but didn't get replay.
I've sent post on their facebook profil, nothing...
Maybe here I'll find some contact...
I'd like to know if you do payout when I close my account and have under 30€? Just that one question, waiting for respond, please...
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I started uploading there in May 2013.
But:
- uploading is not straightforward, quite clumsy compared to other low earners sites
- a very high rejection rate forced me to upload no more than 2 images per day, so I'll stay a life iin order to make a decent portfolio
so I stopped, after a couple of months and 32 images uploaded. Since then, I had 2 sales, 0.23 euro each.
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Hi Ariene,
yes, certainly. If you close your account your get your money irrespective of the payout threshold. If you use this link for posting messages to us, it will directly go into our ticket system and you will definitely receive an answer anytime you contact us: http://panthermedia.net/index.php?page=kontakt_ba_fc.php (http://panthermedia.net/index.php?page=kontakt_ba_fc.php)
@yure: Please let me know your username and I will unblock the limit. I will also record a screencast for uploading images, since our batch upload and batch editing system allows the processing of multiple images at a very fast rate. Please also hide the extended metadata features, we only need the top 5 info (rights, where to publish, model- and property release, keywords -> imported via IPTC). That is all.
Best regards,
Robert
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The upload process is bad. I am happy with my sales its only a handful each month with 900 files but it all adds up. I found panthermedia very helpful in sorting out the strange German tax thing. (That was very nearly a deal breaker.)
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I used to upload some images each week (very slow submitting system) and when I wanted to get paid I got paid but had to pay more tax than when I get paid by SS and the likes. I'm living in the Netherlands, they are German. We are both in Europe, I pay my taxes here but they told me it was necessary. I don't upload anymore..
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I used to upload some images each week (very slow submitting system) and when I wanted to get paid I got paid but had to pay more tax than when I get paid by SS and the likes. I'm living in the Netherlands, they are German. We are both in Europe, I pay my taxes here but they told me it was necessary. I don't upload anymore..
I have no explanation for it. But the taxes paid in Germany reduce of course your taxes in the Netherlands. So actually i doesn't matters.
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It does matter. We have different tax laws and I pay here. I do not have to pay tax in the US, I don't need to pay in Germany. Very strange.
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Some years ago I sold the house of my parents in Sweden and I had to pay taxes there, although I am German citizen and live in Germany.
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I’m in the UK and was unhappy with the double tax but I only had to fill out a form with proof of residency and send to the German Tax office. panthermedia helped me with the form and now I get the full amount owed me with no tax taken off. I think this maybe the same for Netherlands. You have nothing to lose sending an email to support at PM asking for assistance with the tax. :)
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@hofhoek:
I am sorry, but double tax is something we cannot change. However, you can apply for a tax exemption at the German government and you get 100% (but therefore pay the tax in your home country). Anyway, double tax means that you do not pay taxes twice. Hence, you can deduct the 15% taxes locally. Please refer to your local tax office for more information. Regarding the tax exemption, please contact our support team and they will send you the documents and help you get the exemption. Best regards, Robert
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Thanks for the link to kontakt.
My message was sent to [email protected] before. Is it wrong email?
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Hi Ariene,
that is our Polish sales office's address (for customer inquiries). For contributor inquiries, please use our ticket system at the given link.
Thank you,
Robert
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Its great to see Team Panther Media folks engaging on this forum - thanks for that! :)
I was thinking about signing up there but was deterred because I heard the upload process is (somewhat) difficult and there were few sales.
Would you like to share with us what plans you have as a company on these two fronts? Do you expect changes during 2014 − 15?
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Hi there,
thanks for your interest. 2014 will be a year of many improvements and changes. Re the upload process, it actually is quite fast for batch uploading a lot of images (if you want to start and have a lot of images to begin with (>2.000), please let us know and we can import them directly for you). I will record a screencast to explain how fast and easy the upload is if used to its full extend.
However, there will be a lot of improvements on the sales side of the business. We are starting with a complete relaunch of our agency soon with new products, new licences, etc. Please register for our newletter to stay updated. Soon thereafter, we will launch new features to the site with improved earning capabilities. Please mind that I cannot share this at this current moment, but all this will take place in the first half of the year. So sales will improve, and we are still growing. However, we recommend to upload directly to us (the more images and the more regular the uploads, the better the sales) and activate all optional rights (subscription, rightsmanaged, partners) for the full potential.
Please sign up and have a look around and watch out for the newsletters. I am quite confident this will motivate you to give it a try. If you have a quite large portfolio with more than 2.000 images to start with, we are happy to help you with the initial import.
Best regards,
Robert
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Hi Robert, ok thanks very much. I shall go through the contributor terms and agreement and may contact shortly as I have >2000 images.
Regarding the optional rights, will need to read through the terms esp. regarding sub rates and partner programs. There have been issues with partners/ API resellers involving another agency (not yours) but it just makes one cautious - and in future I want to be very clear of the terms before signing to these.
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I have over 2k images with Panther. Out of my 22 agencies, they are on 17th place.
I always tick the 50% commission mark and don't really pay much attention to categorisations, so that might be hurting my sales a bit, but I can't really afford to spend any time editing metadata on low earning agencies. On the other hand, while they keep commission on 50%, I'll keep uploading :)
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Actually the upload process isn't not really painful- it's possible to submit batches and copy all informations from other pictures. But the sales are insignificant (for me).
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As a point of reference: My last sale was a XXL license with a 55% commission and netted me € 2.36,- :o
And no, I'm not in the subscription program, but obviously there are some (very) discounted credits out there...
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Be ready everybody, pm is gonna hire big time, money spender, eccentric millionaire .....customers. 8)
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Panthemedia is one of my biggest disappointments of 2013/14. I joined them May 2011 and although the sales volume was always low the sales were always for decent money that justified the cumbersome upload procedure. However, those sales have disappeared completely and all that I get lately are subscription sales that average € 0.19 per download. Even the occasional non-subscription sale is for a ridiculously low amount. Low volume and rock bottom royalties are the new Panthermedia. Needless to say I stopped uploading and if I don't see an improvement soon I will close my account.
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However, there will be a lot of improvements on the sales side of the business. We are starting with a complete relaunch of our agency soon with new products, new licences, etc.
The only thing missing is that we will be lowering your commissions to improve your sales :o
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Panthermedia has a long history of worsening conditions for contributors.
Years ago they were a mid-stock agency paying 50%.
Then they introduced a penalty for images available on "cheaper" agencies paying only 30% for those, claiming they wanted to differentiate themselves from microstock (attention to those guys who seem to be ticking the 50% box, if the same image is on any microsite you probably should not do that).
Then they introduced credits that effectively lowered their prices to around regular microstock standards (while keeping that 30% scheme but re-labelling the regular 50% royalty to something like "exclusivity bonus").
Then they introduced subscriptions with a rather complicated concept (different sizes, payout depending on the total purchases of the customer in the month). That lead to subs royalties that were comparable to or a bit better than the competition (around €0,30 - €0,32 in my experience, which is around $0,40 - $0,43).
Then they changed the subs program to a flat royalty of €0,23 ($0,30) thus undercutting the main subs competitors (Shutterstock, Dreamstime...).
All the way they have never been a real good earner for me.
They do have a long list of partners listed on their website, and they do provide an opt-out possibility (which is good), but that is only all or nothing.
So if the re-launch adresses some of those issues (go back to flat 50% royalty, increase subs royalties, provide opt-in/opt-out per partner) I may resume uploading again...
Robert, care to comment?
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@dirkr:
Thanks for the brief history of our (unpopular) changes we have introduced (while not agreeing to the commissions mentioned below). To cut a long story short, we had to introduce some changes to our service (credits/subscription/exclusivity) to stay competitive against the larger guys with their investors. At the end of the day, it is the customer who decides where to buy. Markets change and the players need to adjust to the market developments, competition and customer needs. Having said that, it was the big agencies (that most of the photographers contribute to) that first launched the products like credits and subscriptions, adjusted the pricing or cut commissions. Accusing the smaller ones for their behavior and demanding a commission-raise again is counterproductive. Imagine all the smaller ones go out of business and there are only 5 agencies left? Oligopolies are neither good for the customer nor the supplier. Would an increase in royalties be realistic then if the market is dominated solely by 5 players?
While we are doing our best to motivate the photographers (hey, we offer a free photocommunity for everyone), grow our partner channels, grow our customer base and try to increase prices and commissions (40% for non-exclusives, up to 60% for exclusive photos), we still have to react on market shifts in the future. That is why we are still on the market and still growing. By the way, our percentage of payout compared to the big agencies is higher (some companies announce or have to announce their revenue and their total costs and payouts -> look what percentage of the revenue is commissions).
Anyway, I also understand the competition amongst contributors is increasing and that image growth is or will become stronger than customer growth, hence a decrease in total royalties per contributor will occur if the contributor also does not react on this shift (increase production quantity/quality, find new agencies, produce for RM or PremiumRF, etc.).
So, here we are after 10 years, still fighting for every customer and sale and enjoying being part of this market. I would be happy if you watch out for our news and developments. While our relaunch is focused towards our customers (thus increasing sales), we will also introduce new services for photographers this year and it will go in the direction you mentioned. I know smaller agencies (after the top 4) are sometimes a pain and cost a lot of valuable time, but they are also good for the balance of the market.
Best regards,
Robert
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uploaded (FTP) a bunch of images and after a few weeks still nothing shows up - very poor in my eyes. Than you toss in the low sales and the tax thing thus explaining why folks are leaving or not uploading anymore. I tried the tax thing but gave up - too much work to make the request. Simple fix - just make it available (English preferred) to us - either yes or no choice.
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Well, Robert, that is why I am still with you. To add some balance, I want to support some European stocks as well because all the big guys have gone to USA (Fotolia, Dreamstime...). So I was still uploading albeit the fact the sales were minimal. And to my suprise this month - despite its length - is very good regarding the sales. Almost as good as some months in 2011, my best year with Panther. As of reviewing, the standards have changed and nearly everything gets accepted now - if I uploaded my portfolio now (which is impossible) I would have some 1000-2000 more images an thus more sales. But that are the rules of the game, I am glad there is a site like Panthermedia.
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... While we are doing our best to motivate the photographers (hey, we offer a free photocommunity for everyone), grow our partner channels, grow our customer base and try to increase prices and commissions (40% for non-exclusives, up to 60% for exclusive photos), we still have to react on market shifts in the future. That is why we are still on the market and still growing. By the way, our percentage of payout compared to the big agencies is higher (some companies announce or have to announce their revenue and their total costs and payouts -> look what percentage of the revenue is commissions).
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but... we get:
panthermedia - 0,23€ / 1DL (it's about 0,92 PLN)
dreamstime - 0,35$ (over 1 PLN)
veer - 0,35$ (like above)
shutterstock (let's say middle level) 0,33 or 0,36$ (it's 0,99 PLN or 1,08 PLN)...
etc...
I don't remember pricing in Istock, anyone? However, mostly agencies pay 30% and as we can see, they are still (a little, but still) better. So, talking about only percentage doesn't mean much :) Yes, it is important this fair pricing (I mean %), but your offer is not that great to motivate, to say you are better than other players...
And, I don't know how it is with others but I've had about 2-5 sales a month ::) At the same moment, with the same images I'm doing absolutely better with other agencies (in the worst case it's about 2 sales daily...)
At the begining, when I did my first steps, I was honored to be part of this big PM. After one year I had my big doubts, I felt ther's something wrong, if I can't get even one payment (having regular payments somewhere else). I'm very sorry to say that, but for me this is absolutely not attractive, not motivating stock agency.
So, here we are after 10 years, still fighting for every customer and sale and enjoying being part of this market.
This days each stock site is fighting... Good luck, maybe something will change for better soon. Today it's a little to bad.
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@Goofy:
If you upload images via FTP, did you transfer those into "My images" section? Do they still show in your FTOP account? Please let me know and we can find the problem. Usually, the FTP upload should not take longer than some seconds per image.
Regarding the tax issue, I am sorry the goverments are like that. The print for the tax exemption are in mostly in German language, that is why we help you if you contact us and ask for help. And what do you mean fix - make it available in english? The tax thing? That is the government print, they only accept their print.
@Fyletto:
Do you want to send us a hard drive or dropbox account, so we can upload them for you and you give it a try?
@Ariene:
We have standard and corporate subscriptions (0,23/0,46 EUR) and also Web, Small and big print subscriptions, so comparing a web download with a shutterstock XXL download is actually not really the same. But I get your point that we need to pay more than the big ones to be more attractive, but after all it is the total you get at the end of the month. And there are only 4-5 agencies that are attractive, right? So there is a big gap after agency 5. However, I recommend to upload to at least 10-15 agencies to have a fair competition. And according to the top contributors, we are between 6 and 10 depending on the month, so maybe you should give the smaller ones more power to get bigger?
Anyway, good luck to you all and hope we increase sales for you with our new site.
Best regards,
Robert
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Robert,
thanks for the detailed reply.
I agree that you have to stay competitive and that moves like introducing credits and subscriptions do make sense.
But with those programs you are selling at the same level as all other microstocks, so giving you "exclusive" images (meaning images that are not sold at microstock prices elsewhere - fully exclusive to you doesn't work because you don't have the sales volume) does not make sense.
At that point I would have expected you to move back to flat 50% for everyone. I do have files with other agencies that I don't sell at microstock prices, but you won't get them, because I can't opt out of the credit prices, thus making those files available at microstock prices. Doesn't work. If you want higher priced content you have to give the contributor full control of the pricing, meaning opt out from subs and credits and ability to move files into a higher price band.
Re commission percentages: Others (the big 4) can get away with lower percentages because they have the volume.
Also lowering your subscription pricing to below industry standards is not a motivating move.
So staying competitive with other agencies in terms of pricing offers I can agree with, but I don't see the reason to use others as role model for lowering your royalty percentages. Why don't you take competitors like GL, Zoonar, Pond5, Alamy, Yaymicro, Featurepics as role model there (all minimum 50%)? They are closer to you in terms of sales volume.
And yes, I have quoted your minimum commission for non-exclusive files which is 30%, it is true that that goes up to 40% for portfolios bigger than 10.000 files.
All that said, I will of course watch all changes you implement and see if there is a move in the right direction.
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Hi there,
thanks for your interest. 2014 will be a year of many improvements and changes. Re the upload process, it actually is quite fast for batch uploading a lot of images (if you want to start and have a lot of images to begin with (>2.000), please let us know and we can import them directly for you). I will record a screencast to explain how fast and easy the upload is if used to its full extend.
However, there will be a lot of improvements on the sales side of the business. We are starting with a complete relaunch of our agency soon with new products, new licences, etc. Please register for our newletter to stay updated. Soon thereafter, we will launch new features to the site with improved earning capabilities. Please mind that I cannot share this at this current moment, but all this will take place in the first half of the year. So sales will improve, and we are still growing. However, we recommend to upload directly to us (the more images and the more regular the uploads, the better the sales) and activate all optional rights (subscription, rightsmanaged, partners) for the full potential.
Please sign up and have a look around and watch out for the newsletters. I am quite confident this will motivate you to give it a try. If you have a quite large portfolio with more than 2.000 images to start with, we are happy to help you with the initial import.
Best regards,
Robert
Thanks Robert- adding the images now. I really want all of us to succeed...
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can you change the royalty to default to 30% instead of 50% at the bottom since I bet the majority of artists on your site are non-exclusive.
Thanks
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@Goofy,
please go to our contributor portal-> policy management at the bottom of the page. Here you can adjust all standard settings that are then taken as the standard configuration for the uploads.
Another hint to save you time: If you click on an image to edit the metadata, hide the (otpional) extended search filters. That leaves only "1. rights, 2. where to publish, 3. model release, 4. property release and 5. keywords (import via IPTC)" to edit, which can also be done in batch processing. Just tick more than one image and fill out this information. This is then saved to all checked images. That is enough for our system to process and enough for customer to find them.
Good luck.
Robert
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Thanks Robert!
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Thank you Robert for the detailed explanation. I think if every agency care to explain/clarify concerns a lot of conspiracy theories will be prevented.
Having said that I think if Panthermedia want to compete with the bigger agencies they need to do something different from the bigger agencies, not just simply trying to follow/mimic them. Why? The whole principle of subscription sales is VOLUME. For the contributor the subscription model is a compromise: accepting low royalties per download in exchange for volume. So when a small agency introduces subscription plans, especially with very low royalties, without the volume they are going to lose contributors and buyers (because of a lack of new contents which is important for the subscription model).
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@Goofy:
If you upload images via FTP, did you transfer those into "My images" section? Do they still show in your FTOP account? Please let me know and we can find the problem. Usually, the FTP upload should not take longer than some seconds per image.
Regarding the tax issue, I am sorry the goverments are like that. The print for the tax exemption are in mostly in German language, that is why we help you if you contact us and ask for help. And what do you mean fix - make it available in english? The tax thing? That is the government print, they only accept their print.
@Fyletto:
Do you want to send us a hard drive or dropbox account, so we can upload them for you and you give it a try?
@Ariene:
We have standard and corporate subscriptions (0,23/0,46 EUR) and also Web, Small and big print subscriptions, so comparing a web download with a shutterstock XXL download is actually not really the same. But I get your point that we need to pay more than the big ones to be more attractive, but after all it is the total you get at the end of the month. And there are only 4-5 agencies that are attractive, right? So there is a big gap after agency 5. However, I recommend to upload to at least 10-15 agencies to have a fair competition. And according to the top contributors, we are between 6 and 10 depending on the month, so maybe you should give the smaller ones more power to get bigger?
Anyway, good luck to you all and hope we increase sales for you with our new site.
Best regards,
Robert
Thanks Robert, but since I have some 5000 images I really do not know which of them have and which have not been accepted. And going through every image and check whether it was accepted or not is simply impossible. But thanks for your proposal, I will stick with the rules and be happy with what I have (some 2700 images on Panther). Still, good luck with your future re-launch.
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Few months ago I closed my account and today I got email message that I've sold image :o ??? How long do we sell images after closing account? How can I check what's sold?
Edit
Ok, I have found that it'll take up to 6 months to remove images from partners... 6 months... ::)
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Can you sell the same image on PM, both RF and RM license?
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Few months ago I closed my account and today I got email message that I've sold image :o ??? How long do we sell images after closing account? How can I check what's sold?
Edit
Ok, I have found that it'll take up to 6 months to remove images from partners... 6 months... ::)
I guess you found your answer, but in the future you are probably better off starting a new topic for something instead of tagging on to the end of another thread.
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@Fyletto:
Just a small hint: If you upload your images, our systemwill check which images have already been uploaded and will reject those. This means that only those will be accepted for inspection that have not been uploaded at all. That might save you some work.
@Ariene:
After deleting images/cancelling the membership, we deactivate the images from our image search and API for partners immediately. Only will they be available on our site via image number or lightbox for 3 months. That makes sense for advertising agencies who have to consult with their customers for purchase decision. Every 3 months we send out removal lists to partners who do not have an API, who usually remove them immediately, but some also offer a 3 months period for deletion. Hence, there is a maximum of 6 months, but in practice it is faster.
@photostockad:
We sell in our platform RF. IF you activate RM, your images are also delivered to partners like poster printers, who pay per print (e.g. 6 Euro per single print on canvas).
Bet regards,
Robert
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Are there any plans to import data from accompanying jpegs for eps vector files? I would like to sell my vectors on PM but the upload process is different from all the other sites.