Haven't found a way other than opening a US bank account, but then you would have to pay US tax.

I hear Payoneer might be slightly better.

Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

Then you should probably switch banks. 2.5% is really high.

My bank has a reasonable 0.5% currency conversion fee. If they could only be sent dollars from PayPal I would save many, many monies. 

2.5% can make sense if you're sending $100, but when the numbers go up to $10,000+, the fees become ridiculous. $50 should be the maximum fee at 2.5% and then 0.5% on top of that.

i always wonder why people think using a service should be free, without realizing that without that service they would have to use cheques or bank payments and pay 10-100 times more to get paid.

i am happy paypal is around to make my life a lot easier when its payday

Probably your main currency is euro, I live in Bulgaria and somehow my main currency is usd and I just attached debit card with usd currency to paypal so I do not get charged for currency conversion. Although I get charged for the opposite, when I receive euro I need to withdraw in usd , so in the end it always costs me money.

I thought they stopped doing this. It doesn't matter if your card is in dollars if they see it's in Bulgaria.

Right now, $1 should equal 1.83 Bulgarian lev, what are you getting at PayPal if you withdraw $1 right now?

i always wonder why people think using a service should be free, without realizing that without that service they would have to use cheques or bank payments and pay 10-100 times more to get paid.

i am happy paypal is around to make my life a lot easier when its payday

I wonder that about that too, I'm not asking for free service. I also wonder why people bend over so easily, while frowning upon the less flexible.

That's really weird because I can withdraw in EUR or USD, whichever currency I have balance in.
Account was registered in Bulgaria, main currency is EUR.

The important thing is: When you can use the money, like buy milk, what currency is it in? The conversion happens somewhere and remember that the PayPal fees are HIDDEN, it doesn't say: look, here's the fee, they just give you a bad exchange rate.

is it possible to have USD and Euro balance  in one account? so that there is no loss from conversion

ok, thanks 

I don't have any good solution - but I do always try and leave a USD balance in Paypal account (my bank account is NOK) and whenever I need to buy photo gear, website fees, or other items, I try to purchase from a store that takes USD and paypal.  That way I can use my money and avoid the currency exchange.

Yes, I believe this is the only way to get around currency conversion, but unfortunately it doesn't work for rent, pizza and beer...

It's not really convenient to buy camera gear from online US shops either if the same stuff is available locally. The prices are almost the same (often even cheaper) if they are business expenses, meaning no VAT and customs fees.

Ordering from dollar stores often means shipping + 10% customs for EU + VAT (25% or less depending on country).

You need to get a bank account in USA. If the money goes to country with any other currency than US Dollars it will convert. Which is a ridicolous amount if you have a serious stock business. Ofcourse should a service not be free - But a price for a service can get to high right


So - you have to travel to USA, open a personal or business account, then get a currency account in your homeland bank. That way you can get a transfer done each month for as little as 15$ more or less


Thats the short version! It takes a lot of documentation to get business account, and it takes a proof of adresse in US to get a personal account.


Thats the only way to get pass the fee, because as Paypal says : It�s not a fee, it�s a currency exchange rate

Paypal doesn't use real time, so you can take advantage when your currency is falling a lot during the day but you still get the old (better) exchange rate. This way I sometimes end up paying only 1.6/1.8% instead of 2.5%. Other alternative is to spend directly in USD on websites, I often use paypal to pay for accommodation.

So my account in local bank is strictly in USD (I can set EUR if I want to but it's USD ONLY as it is) and is totally different from my account in domestic currency (RSD, Serbia) and I have that account tied with PayPal. You are all saying that PayPal will convert USD to RSD and then again from RSD to USD and then send transfer me the money in USD? Doesn't sound logical to me.

Sure I must convert USD to RSD between my accounts in local bank but that is fee-free with my bank.

I have a thai paypal and get paid in usd. I then opened a payoneer account with atm card. At same time they gave me Bank of america bank acc. and i nvr set foot in the US. Now i transfer my usd from thai paypal to BOM acc for no charge from paypal, and then take out thai currency with my payoneer atm card. The exchange rate on payoneer uses mastercard rates and is much better than paypals rates.

By the way, when was that? I was there mid december 2016, and around 1 of december they made a new law against terror end financial crime, so the possibility to get the bank account was way harder than just 3 months ago.

A buddy of mine did it in 2015, and he just walked in and got one in 10 minutes.

I spend almost 5 hours in a meeting documenting everything. The banker told me, that 3 weeks before she could just have opened it for me with no problems.


So maybe it�s not that easy anymore.

I spend almost 5 hours in a meeting documenting everything. The banker told me, that 3 weeks before she could just have opened it for me with no problems.


So maybe it�s not that easy anymore.

I think you can run into tax problems if you get big amounts of USD into a US bank account.

The important thing is: When you can use the money, like buy milk, what currency is it in? The conversion happens somewhere and remember that the PayPal fees are HIDDEN, it doesn't say: look, here's the fee, they just give you a bad exchange rate.

PayPal fees are not hidden at all. ALL fees are in the T and C you signed for when opening your account. don't blame PayPal for your ignorance

its not sneaky and they re not hidden. all fees are listed, been like that for years,  just check which fees apply to you and you know your cost to use paypal.  the Internet is full of people too lazy to check, they rather complain and accuse paypal. clueless

they are not hidden, 2.5% is the fee. Period . that's your cost. i think the fees are fair,  considering the service they provide

people may not like it,  but thats nit what they say,  they  say paypal is corrupt,  stealing,  hidden fees,  etc,  etc which is tinfoil hat rubbish

Quote from: qunamax on January 27, 2017, 09:44

So my account in local bank is strictly in USD (I can set EUR if I want to but it's USD ONLY as it is) and is totally different from my account in domestic currency (RSD, Serbia) and I have that account tied with PayPal. You are all saying that PayPal will convert USD to RSD and then again from RSD to USD and then send transfer me the money in USD? Doesn't sound logical to me.

Sure I must convert USD to RSD between my accounts in local bank but that is fee-free with my bank.

Logical or not, PayPal won't send USD outside the country as far as I understand. Naturally, they want their juicy fee.

But If they send me money in local currency it would bounce I guess since my account can accept anything but USD, or if my bank converts from local currency sent by PayPal before filling my account then I'd lose nothing since my bank ain't charging me for conversion. I'm still not sure any of this happens except when the bank account is set to receive EUR only.

withdrawing money is free of charge

yes,  I am in the US. i checked the tc,  but not really for zimbabwe or wherever. Europe most countries have no withdrawal fees either

The exchange rate from USD to EUR is indeed insane. The worst thing is that Paypal claims it's the 'current exchange rate', while it's the current exchange minus 2.5%. Sneaky.

I don't see any easy way to circumvent the bad rates though. Opening a US bank account seems too much of a hassle, and that isn't free either.

Lecaro, I can open a USD bank account right here where I live, but it's Paypal policy to only payout in currency local to where the bank account is situated.
The banks are not at fault here. They won't change USD to EUR, Paypal does that.

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on January 27, 2017, 09:10

Quote from: nadalbg on January 27, 2017, 09:06

I get internel error when I try to calculate withdrawal now, but I am almost sure that I withdraw usd and I dont get charged with currency convertion.

It's hidden as a really bad exchange rate, which translates into a 2.5% fee. The average exchange rate today should be around 1.83 levs per dollar.

But I withdraw 600$ usd and I pay the withdrawal fee which smth like 2.5 usd, and I get 600$ usd in my bank account/ debit card.

EDIT: Just withdrew 530 usd and I will update you when I receive it, but I make withdrawals monthly and I always receive my money in usd, always exactly the same ammount I withdraw.

I can confirm withdrawing 530 usd and receiving 530 usd in my debit card. So no money lost, no conversion.  Only the 2.5 usd fee is what I pay.
I dont know if its politics of paypal in my country.

You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

paypal rates are a bit high, but it could be worse; most banks are not better; skrill is worse

May I say that I find meeting some stranger nerds in a starbucks more appalling and annoying (in a freetard way) than paying a commission?
If I have free time to spend, I'd rather meet friends at the pub than wasting my time that way.

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on January 27, 2017, 04:43

The important thing is: When you can use the money, like buy milk, what currency is it in? The conversion happens somewhere and remember that the PayPal fees are HIDDEN, it doesn't say: look, here's the fee, they just give you a bad exchange rate.

PayPal fees are not hidden at all. ALL fees are in the T and C you signed for when opening your account. don't blame PayPal for your ignorance

And where can you see the recipe for the single transactions? There is no recipe. Its totally intransparent like Istock.

Do you ever try to deduct the pp fees from tax?

Quote from: Sammy the Cat on January 26, 2017, 14:36

Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!

That sounds time consuming and risky to me I can't really get my head around it so I will stick to old fashioned currency. An article in the Financial Times says this "As a phenomenon bitcoin has all the attributes of a pyramid scheme, requiring a constant influx of converts to push up the price, based on the promise of its use by future converts. So the ultimate value for bitcoin will be the same as all pyramid schemes: zero."

Quote from: Sammy the Cat on January 26, 2017, 14:36

Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!

Bitcoin price can be up and down, even for one day something like 100$ per bitcoin, I dont know if its positive or negative, but sometimes I receive money and I want to withdraw them instantly but its already less since the rate of btc has gone down . It's probably good for investors who want to wait and see and sell their btc when its up.

Yes, the Bitcoin currency is way too volatile to be used as anything but instant payment. Monthly payments would have to go, and you would have to be paid directly for each image sale.

Agencies don't like that as holding on to millions of dollars each month before payment is financially rewarding.

I'm in Canada and have a US bank account in the US. I'm not active in microctock anymore but if you are still making a decent income it would be worth having. I pay 3$ fee per month (it might get waived for a certain balance). The account was set up while I was with RBC Canada a few years ago (I did not physically go to the US). The Paypal dollars stay in US dollars and I use them when I go to the US.

Interesting for people who can benefit from that.

I used to get paid from a Canadian source and it took weeks for a check to clear. Might just have been my dumb bank. Canadian source said, oh no problem I'll send you Paypal instead. Never paid a fee of any sort.

US / Canada have some benefits that the OP and others don't. I wouldn't trust going to a Starbucks to sell Bitcoins as a good plan to avoid a tiny fee for conversion.

People who pay do have my sympathy, the UK charges me 20% taxes for receiving money in the US from a payment source. Haven't filled out the more than complicated forms that prove I'm already paying taxes here. That gets me angry and it's 20%! 

ranplett, just close your paypal account and see how you get on getting paid online, surely there are many options to get paid at lower fees using only one payment processor for all your income streams.  right?

or is paypal holding you hostage and forces you to use their product?

you get paid 2 months late every time, missing out on interest, plus you have to cash the  checks as well, costing you time and probably petrol, plus you have to invest time to manage multiple payment streams, you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider.

i think if you properly calculate all the cost of receiving  checks, you will probably find that the cost are higher than using paypal,

not sure how that works for your principals, you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier,

quick calculation shows you would probably lose out on 0.25% interest alone over your 100K, and surely you can deduct the paypal fees from your earnings in canada as well.

I don't think many hundreds of dollars is a fair fee for a bank. My regular bank accounts are much less expensive.

My regular bank accounts are much less expensive.

How much though? 'Much' less expensive on 2.5% would be pretty much close to zero.

Fair point. I've not checked for a while but I'm pretty sure the difference between my bank and PayPal was pretty minimal.

Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

Not really a relevant comparison... Pricing adjusts over time and if the dollar gets more expensive there might be fewer sales at the same price point as a result.

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on February 06, 2017, 06:23

Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

For each $10k it costs $250 in conversion fees. I think that is expensive. My regular bank takes 1%, or $100. Big difference. It's huge. Bad.

But I agree, the exchange rates have had a big (positive) impact on my earnings. �1 euro is $1.07 today but it was $1.31 five years ago.

Its relative I suppose but $150 on $10,000 doesn't sound "huge" to me

Quote from: Pauws99 on February 06, 2017, 09:35

Quote from: ccbcc on February 06, 2017, 06:41

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on February 06, 2017, 06:23

Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

For each $10k it costs $250 in conversion fees. I think that is expensive. My regular bank takes 1%, or $100. Big difference. It's huge. Bad.

But I agree, the exchange rates have had a big (positive) impact on my earnings. �1 euro is $1.07 today but it was $1.31 five years ago.

Its relative I suppose but $150 on $10,000 doesn't sound "huge" to me

I like to see how you negotiate a mortgage for example.

Poorly no doubt but you can "negotiate" as much as you like with Shutterstock but you will still get paid by Payment to Skrill/Moneybookers or Paypal.

we're back to square one, ask shutterstock to lodge the money into your bank account. they cant. so you use paypal to get paid, great service, so you pay for that. dont understand the moaning. if a client tells you that your image is too expensive, they say, its digital, cost you nothing to shoot a photo, just your camera. what do you say? but but but my time, the editing, my electricity bill, the office rent,  etc etc all cost money. same difference.

Quote from: Hi Cliff(s)! on February 02, 2017, 13:01

Quote from: Sammy the Cat on January 26, 2017, 14:36

Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!

That sounds time consuming and risky to me I can't really get my head around it so I will stick to old fashioned currency. An article in the Financial Times says this "As a phenomenon bitcoin has all the attributes of a pyramid scheme, requiring a constant influx of converts to push up the price, based on the promise of its use by future converts. So the ultimate value for bitcoin will be the same as all pyramid schemes: zero."

so...?

I mean, do you really "philosophize" over Bitcoin's distant future and whether or not it will have had "zero value" in a hundred years' time instead of using it NOW when it can have a lot of value by avoiding extortion by "Paypal who are not a charity"?

Bitcoin, by the way, is one (or, rather and more precisely, it's a non-profit org)...

In a hundred years' time, your dollars-in-hand will have equally zero value, by the way: the dollar has a track record of losing around 95% per one-hundred years, but you're still using it.

Think about it.

Exactly. There's a good reason dollars are used and not the Brazilian real, Kazakhstan tenge or Zambian kwacha...

Quote from: stuttershock on February 09, 2017, 11:55

In a hundred years' time, your dollars-in-hand will have equally zero value, by the way: the dollar has a track record of losing around 95% per one-hundred years, but you're still using it.

Well most people won't hold 100 dollars in their hand for 100 years. They'll spend it, or put it in a high interest account which will pretty much cancel out inflation. So your 100 dollars will only be worth zero if you're an idiot who happens to be immortal, and you have enough money that you don't actually need to spend it during those 100 years.

And your 95% claim (I would have thought it was about 80 to 85%, but I'll take your word for it) it only makes Bitcoin sound that great because Bitcoin hasn't been around for 100 years so you can't compare it. What will it be worth in 100 years? $100 per BTC, $10, $1, nothing?

I think it's more likely that a bitcoin will be worth $0 in 100 years, than $100 being worth $1.

I'm pretty sure bitcoins wont exist in a 100 years I will come on here and apologize if they do!

you get paid 2 months late every time, missing out on interest, plus you have to cash the  checks as well, costing you time and probably petrol, plus you have to invest time to manage multiple payment streams, you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider.

i think if you properly calculate all the cost of receiving  checks, you will probably find that the cost are higher than using paypal,

not sure how that works for your principals, you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier,

quick calculation shows you would probably lose out on 0.25% interest alone over your 100K, and surely you can deduct the paypal fees from your earnings in canada as well.

Oh sweet! Unsolicited financial advice on the internet. How did I get so lucky?

You don't get paid 2 months late every month, you are simply deferring payments. This can actually work in your favour if, say, your income was dropping in the next year (not unheard of in microstock terms). You could be deferring income to the next year when you will pay lower amount of income tax.

Cashing a cheque is easy. I often going to my bank anyway (I walk there, so no petrol or fuel costs), and these days you can send a photo of your cheque to the bank and they will process it. That takes no longer than processing a Paypal payment. It might even be faster because you don't have to look up rates to be sure Paypal is gouging you a full 4%!

"you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider."

Are you mental? Why would I not consider administrative costs? Well, to answer that "argument," no, I do factor in all admin costs, and they aren't that costly. I have 3 stock photo accounts. Two of which used to be funded through Paypal, and one via cheques. There is no real difference in time or energy or admin costs between the two, except for the much lower exchange rate that I get from processing cheques.

My bank actually offers me a +1.6% exchange rate, so that's a difference of 2%, or $2000 on every $100k earned, or 20k over a period of 10 years. It is VERY worth it for me, I just couldn't defer payments until recently.

"you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier"

Thanks for the advice, I'm glad that works for you, but stop projecting your ill informed advice towards me. Enjoy paying $1000's more to Paypal for a negligible convenience.

have you read your reply? what a load of work to use a bank. my word,  walking to a bank, scanning and emailing photos,

deferring payments, but that doesn't add more work to your financial administration?

You said it would take 2 months to get a cheque, not me

anyway,  not my business, you are right

It seems that you like to exaggerate to try and prove your point.

Opening up the banking app on your phone, is one click. Then you click the button to submit cheques, then you point your cellphone camera at the cheque and press the button. Then review it. Finally you press another button to submit it.

Brutally complicated, isn't it?

Paypal annoyances notwithstanding, that's not much action required to save, say, $100 on a $5000 cheque, or $200 on a $10,000 cheque.

Deferring payments isn't really a problem if you're financially stable. We already had to defer payments from iStock by 7 weeks. In the era of diminishing stock photo returns, it actually works out because (at least in my case) my income appeared lower and I paid less in tax. Not sure about anywhere else, but Canadians are already allowed to defer up to $20k / year, depending on income, and most people that are good with money will max out contributions to their deferred income account called RRSPs. I'm sure other countries have similar programs.

What I *really* said is that I was frustrated with PayPal's exorbitant rates and was looking at ways to avoid those losses. You came along with a bunch of reasons (and assumptions) why I should appreciate Paypal because: convenience. Most people couldn't defer payments if their life depended on it. So I don't expect them to really change their methods. I'm sure Paypal is aware of this and will probably end up raising their rates given how dependant people are on it. If I know anything about bankers, it's that they love making money off us plebs.

I think the answer is that for the average earner then Paypal probably works well. If you are moving what to me are very large sums then a %age commission doesn't work. In the same way if I were staying abroad I would be happy to exchange say $30 at the hotel. I wouldn't dream of going to reception with $30k. I don't think paypal is especially greedy compared with any other "bank". So until my sales start to rocket when my genius is finally recognised I will stick with PP.