MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Envato => Topic started by: leaf on August 08, 2011, 14:22

Title: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: leaf on August 08, 2011, 14:22
just a little heads up, Photodune  (http://www.microstockgroup.com/link/go.php?url=www.photodune.com)is now in open beta.

Their rates (http://photodune.net/wiki/account/money-account/payment-rates/?ref=username) are as follows:
Exclusive: 50%-70%
non-exclusive - 25%

referrals: no photographer referral program  :-[, but you get 30% of what a buyer spend on their first purchase.

I've had my images there in closed beta for the last 2 months and they have already had some OK sales from their current 'old' members..(on par with Canstock / DepositPhotos) it will be interesting to see how much competition they create for the Big 4.  Envato, the head company, is very well accomplished in their other efforts and I expect them to move into the Middle Tier pretty quickly, however time will tell.  When they get the flood of new images there may not be enough buyers to keep up the sales for all the photographers.  Either way, I'm eager to see how it goes.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 08, 2011, 14:55
Thanks for the heads up Leaf.
20 MP XXL for 9 USD x 25% = not very attractive
I'll pass for now.

SS OD pays 2,70 USD for a much smaller size.
Photodune Large 5 $ x 25% = 1,25 $. IS Large - around 2- 2,50 USD.
Extended Licence: 45 USD x 25% is a joke. :P

Race to the bottom, I don't think it is in our interest that this agency succeeds.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 15:18
keep getting 1 answer wrong on their test! hehhe
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 08, 2011, 15:35
I really don't think I can be bothered with a middle tier site for 25% commission.  I really don't understand why we need this?  There's already plenty of lower selling sites that pay closer to twice the commission, aren't we going to be better off just supplying them?

If they really were going to get in to the top 4, I might change my mind but I think that would be almost impossible when everyone uploads their portfolio.  If Veer can't do it, what hope have other sites?

I might just open up an account and upload a few, hoping it will encourage their buyers to look for more of my stuff elsewhere.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 15:42
true.. but the cool idea about them might be some exclusive stuff.. donīt know if they allow some to be.. really hard to predict the future of a "new" agency, they do have some background and if they can get buyers and more buyers with time it can be a great agency to perhaps go exclusive, this is a very long idea and plan but who knows..
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 08, 2011, 16:22
More likely you'll caniballize your sales elsewhere and encourage other agencies to cut commisions furthermore.
Don't complain about falling commissions if you are willing to supply ridiculous sites like photodune.

11,25 USD for ELs... c'mon :P
Last month VEER paid me 35 USD for an EL, I get regular ELs on SS for 28 USD.
Photodune's offer is a joke.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 16:28
More likely you'll caniballize your sales elsewhere and encourage other agencies to cut commisions furthermore.
Don't complain about falling commissions if you are willing to supply ridiculous sites like photodune.
11,25 USD for ELs... c'mon :P

letīs be realistic ok?

DT - 25% for level 0
IS - 15%
FT - 20%
SS - 15-19% for people starting

again I really think that if they in a year or two make it HAPPEN we can try to submit exclusive files there (if they open that too) and perhaps exclusive later

looking at leaf port there he had 117 sales from April 11, that does look good and way more than some mid tier agencies, if you donīt want to join thatīs your own problem, I am kind of sick of everybody sticking the finger in other business
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 08, 2011, 16:30
true.. but the cool idea about them might be some exclusive stuff.. donīt know if they allow some to be.. really hard to predict the future of a "new" agency, they do have some background and if they can get buyers and more buyers with time it can be a great agency to perhaps go exclusive, this is a very long idea and plan but who knows..
It has to be very long odds that they will get enough buyers to make it worthwhile, especially with low commissions.  And they are probably going to get those buyers from the sites that pay us more, as most of them do.  I'm not really interested in exclusivity anyway, thought about trying image exclusivity but it really doesn't appeal to me unless a site came up with a really good deal.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 16:33
I agree but on the long run it might be different, as you know better than me stock/agencies is changing constantly, odds may be quite small.. letīs see how they will do and how is the uploading too
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 08, 2011, 16:35
Don't look at the percentages only, look at the prices as well.
If people are happy with 1,25 USD for Large size, the other agencies will adjust and soon you will have 7% at IS or 10% at DT...
Race to the bottom :P unsustainable :P
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 16:41
Don't look at the percentages only, look at the prices as well.
If people are happy with 1,25 USD for Large size, the other agencies will adjust and soon you will have 7% at IS or 10% at DT...
Race to the bottom :P unsustainable :P

stock as you know or we adapt or we die.. really hard to predict the future, not saying that 25% is good (of course it ainīt) but.. we are screwed on the end of the day.. this discussion could travel all year long, there is SF paying 50% but can we get to a payout? sure but slowly, after one year on the stock business..
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 08, 2011, 16:52
Not counting the ELs, maximum possible commission on photodune is miserable 2,25 USD for 20 Megapixels.

Veer XL: 5,25 USD - L: 3,50 USD
My today's downloads on DT: Level 3 TIFF: 8,91, Level 2 XL: 4,20
ISTOCK XXXL: 6-7 USD

No comments.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Perry on August 08, 2011, 16:53
So how is the uploading procedure? Is there categories or other things that needs to be clicked for every image? FTP? What is the minimum size in megapixels?

If I can dump my portfolio there easily, I might try this one too. Otherwise: nah!
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 17:18
So how is the uploading procedure? Is there categories or other things that needs to be clicked for every image? FTP? What is the minimum size in megapixels?

If I can dump my portfolio there easily, I might try this one too. Otherwise: nah!

let me explain:

1. usual registration
2. quiz about photodune (10 questions, not easy, needed like 5 times)
3. zip with 5 to 10 pictures (lowest size is 2000px x 2000px)

now I am waiting!

p.s: approved after a few hours, will see now the upload and will let you know guys
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Perry on August 08, 2011, 17:24
let me explain:

1. usual registration
2. quiz about photodune (10 questions, not easy, needed like 5 times)
3. zip with 5 to 10 pictures (lowest size is 2000px x 2000px)

now I am waiting!

Yes, but how is the submission procedure when submitting the "real" images?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 17:32
let me explain:

1. usual registration
2. quiz about photodune (10 questions, not easy, needed like 5 times)
3. zip with 5 to 10 pictures (lowest size is 2000px x 2000px)

now I am waiting!

Yes, but how is the submission procedure when submitting the "real" images?

that like I said here donīt know and will be a key factor..
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 08, 2011, 19:49
the upload is smooth... upload and tick to review

ps: I am so confused.. the system is quite confusing..

I have upload a folder with like 30 pics or so and then we need to pick one by one without thumbnail and add a MR to it... and MR need to be zip and we cannot add 2 MR to a pic.. really confusing.. must be missing something.. just emailed them, will see
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on August 09, 2011, 01:00
Submitted 5 sample pictures tonight, already approved this morning - fastest initial review ever!

Then I submitted a picture and noted that IPTC data is not being imported - using exiftools to tag my pictures
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 09, 2011, 02:03
How low a commission will people accept?  I'm sure the sites that currently pay us more will be interested.  This is the perfect excuse for them to make more cuts.  I know a lot of you think we will all end up on low commissions everywhere but I still don't see the logic in pushing the sites in to doing it.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: dirkr on August 09, 2011, 04:08
How low a commission will people accept?  I'm sure the sites that currently pay us more will be interested.  This is the perfect excuse for them to make more cuts.  I know a lot of you think we will all end up on low commissions everywhere but I still don't see the logic in pushing the sites in to doing it.

Fully agree. I will reconsider them once they increase their non-exclusive commission to 50%.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: milemobile on August 09, 2011, 06:12
Snufkin, where are you see Extended license that is 45$, i only see 15$ Extended license which is a bigger joke  ;D

 (http://image.beyluxe.com/pictures/9135fe823fc7f16aba7a5c1bc08e105e.png) (http://image.beyluxe.com/imagea98e4df5734dba4326e1f2c4110165dd.html)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Phil on August 09, 2011, 06:57
I must be missing something as to me it looks

$15 ELs - I dont think so
25% to if its lucky is a middle-tier
A different uploading procedure so I have individually upload to them rather than put them in my ftp chain when I upload to everyone else? if so I am supposed to do this for a 25% commission of bargain basement prices, doesnt sound enticing (I can barely be bothered with istocks seperate uploading)
Referral program, plenty of others have much better programs I'll stick to those
High commission on exclusive images, I can make up to $5-$7 on exclusive images, I get that at istock as non-exclusive (and a chunk of my files on dt) - so you want to images exclusive so that the artist can get less than what they get non-exclusive elsewhere - seems like a fail to me?

Seems very arrogant and just crap to me - I cant really find positives compared to the others?? but people are uploading so what am I missing??
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 09, 2011, 07:26
....but people are uploading so what am I missing??
I presume it's because they have a fear of missing out on any sales?  They also seem to think that we're heading for lower commissions anyway, so what difference does it make?  I don't understand this, it's a bit like taking some of your savings and putting it in a bank that pays lower interest, because your bank might lower interest in the future.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: jm on August 09, 2011, 08:06
I'm afraid that the decision if to upload or not starts for many contributors with question "Is Yuri there?". And if he is, then it has to be good decision.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: borg on August 09, 2011, 08:11
Yuri is already there! It seems that Evanto is not too cheap for him....


P.S. Hahahaha! I didn't see post with question before my post...  ;D But I gave an answer!
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 09, 2011, 09:02
As already said: 25% = too less. Period. Why should I support a comany that is not willing to give fair royalties and undermine fairer comanies by that? I don`t care if Yuri is there....he makes his decisions, I make mine.

We have costs too: lights, studios, model payments, cameras, lenses, software, computers....and finally we have to eat ;-)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 09, 2011, 09:44
the EL price seem a little low.. very low actually.. perhaps they will raise it, they seem very nice to talk by email..

the true is that sales do happen there, I will use leaf again hope it wonīt be upset, last night had 119 sales today on 124  ;)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: jm on August 09, 2011, 09:59
the EL price seem a little low.. very low actually.. perhaps they will raise it, they seem very nice to talk by email..

the true is that sales do happen there, I will use leaf again hope it wonīt be upset, last night had 119 sales today on 124  ;)


...but look at weekly top sellers - best image has 7 sales a week. Really not much. And it may change to 2 sales a week when more contributors come. But I know it's too soon to judge.
http://photodune.net/page/top_sellers/2011/08/07 (http://photodune.net/page/top_sellers/2011/08/07)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: ppdd on August 09, 2011, 11:29
NOTE THIS: The extended license price changes with the size. So, the extended license is only $5 for small files, and goes up to $35.

$5!
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 09, 2011, 12:09
the EL price seem a little low.. very low actually.. perhaps they will raise it, they seem very nice to talk by email..

the true is that sales do happen there, I will use leaf again hope it wonīt be upset, last night had 119 sales today on 124  ;)


...but look at weekly top sellers - best image has 7 sales a week. Really not much. And it may change to 2 sales a week when more contributors come. But I know it's too soon to judge.
[url]http://photodune.net/page/top_sellers/2011/08/07[/url] ([url]http://photodune.net/page/top_sellers/2011/08/07[/url])


from my small search they do look above depostiphotos, which is very good to agency that has a small life on stock images.. SF is online for 1 year and they look a lot down from depositphotos.. the 25% ainīt that nice and so far the uploading is kind of hard, really different upload system, havenīt found how to do it fast.. FTP look nice but after process there is no place to add MR, really confusing.. hope they make it easier

p.s: regarding the model releases we need to add a link to them on the comments for reviewer, I have place the name of the releases, so far so good
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on August 09, 2011, 12:27
How low a commission will people accept?  I'm sure the sites that currently pay us more will be interested.  This is the perfect excuse for them to make more cuts.  I know a lot of you think we will all end up on low commissions everywhere but I still don't see the logic in pushing the sites in to doing it.

Fully agree. I will reconsider them once they increase their non-exclusive commission to 50%.

Agree that the commission is low, especially for a new site. Still undecided whether submitting or not. Meanwhile, I sent the sample pictures and passed the test: now THEY are in review mode, not me. Feels good.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 09, 2011, 15:16
I'm afraid that the decision if to upload or not starts for many contributors with question "Is Yuri there?". And if he is, then it has to be good decision.
I wouldn't be surprised if they paid Yuri to upload or offered him a higher commission.  I'm not sure if Yuri was with Albumo when I uploaded my portfolio but several big names were and that made me think they were OK.  Then I realised that some of the big contributors just dump their portfolio everywhere.  I suppose they can still make payouts when it would take the rest of us years.  Now I'm more wary, Albumo wasn't a disaster for me but I wouldn't want to go through that again.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: cthoman on August 09, 2011, 15:44
Kind of sad to see another low paying site pop up.  :(
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: collis on August 09, 2011, 20:14
Thanks for the post Leaf, we're *very* excited to be live! It's still a public beta so there is still more ironing out to do, but we're open to the public which is pretty exciting.

I know the non-exclusive rate is a sore point as lots of people have mentioned. This doesn't exactly excuse it, but by way of explanation our rates are ported over from our general marketplace family. On the majority of our other sites, such as ThemeForest and GraphicRiver, we have exclusivity rates approaching 99% in many cases. And historically our focus has been *heavily* towards creating unique libraries of content.

With PhotoDune, we're obviously entering a very different market with a very diversified industry that heavily favours non-exclusivity. And as a few have mentioned the rate is more like the rate a big established player would offer. And of course we don't have the sales volume to justify something like that.

For now, I'd like us to get to know the market a bit better with our offering out in public for only a day so far. And specifically I'm curious to see how much content we get from our existing author base as well, which as mentioned is more towards the exclusive end - where I think our rates are pretty good.

Someone in the thread asked what they were missing as to why people would bother upload. I guess my answer would really be that it's about the large buyer market that already uses the Envato Marketplaces. We're closing in on 1 million members, a large portion of whom are active (i.e. spend money :-) ) and to a great extent we've mostly launched this marketplace in response to their needs. If I could count the number of times we've had people ask us why we don't have a photo marketplace in the set, I'd .. be really good at counting!

So far during the beta period our top seller (no surprises who) has netted a little over  800 sales, so the early results are looking good I think. Over the coming months we'll be marketing the site more and more, and I'd anticipate the sales to continue to grow.

Now from a non-exclusive photographer's perspective though, you'd have to be asking yourself are the buyers the same people who were buying on some other site and are now buying here. I read recently somewhere that the stock photo market has plateaued and it's the same buyers/revenue being pushed further and further. To be honest I don't think I believe that as there is such a vast pool of people coming online every year, and there is the increasing democratization of content creation that has people like my Mum now buying photos!

Add to this, our other marketplaces are all growing very quickly as more and more people make their own websites, newsletters, flyers and creative materials. So I guess my feeling is that we are introducing new buyers, as well as (hopefully) siphoning off some buyers from our competitors :-)

Finally, someone mentioned stock photos being a race to the bottom. I know a few people have mentioned that here and in other industry sites. I thought this was curious as for me, I started buying on iStockPhoto back in 2005 I think it was, when 1 credit used to equal 25c! Over the years I've spent about $20,000 on that particular site, but I've definitely noticed that my money goes less far than it used to. If anything I thought stock photos were going the other way and getting more and more expensive. But maybe I'm just a cheap buyer ;-)

Our experience running the Envato Marketplaces is that as sales build we also tend to slowly increment prices up depending on the elasticity of buyer demand - i.e. how sensitive they are to price. In the end, I think it should be a tight relationship between marketplaces and authors, because one's success depends heavily on the other.

Anyways, enough of a long message, I'll add myself to the forum notifications so I can chime in again!
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: cthoman on August 09, 2011, 20:47
Over the years I've spent about $20,000 on that particular site, but I've definitely noticed that my money goes less far than it used to.
I think it's the fact that most of us only earned 4k off of that 20k that is the point of discontent. Look, every company is free to run their business the way they like, but I'm sick of being given less and less. I hope others are too. Although I'm not a photog, GraphicRiver has the same crumby rates, so I'm giving the thumbs down to the whole family of sites. If anything positive comes out of this, it's that it fuels the fire to make my own endeavors better and more successful.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 09, 2011, 21:01
Collis,

Again, it is very nice to see someone kind and open from a agency.

But all your arguments don`t justify the low royalty rate.
As Cthoman said, I am soooo tired of people trying to take advantage of my work. 

It may be that someone wants to sell his template for a cut of 25%....there is not much costs involved in creating a template beyond work and time, but if you look into photography there is much more on the shoulders of the creator....see my above post.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: collis on August 09, 2011, 21:37
Hey cthoman and velocicarpo,

Thanks for the feedback, that definitely makes sense. And I must admit I can see what you mean. I actually have some *very* old illustration files still selling on iStockPhoto that I keep meaning to go and delete. Obviously I'm a non-exclusive there (!) and so my rate is 20% I think, or whatever the latest rate is. I checked today and my files have made me $10,000 which is pretty cool, except I kind of agree when I think about the $40,000 that didn't make it's way to me, it is a little depressing.

Well I shall take it to the team for more discussion, and as I mentioned in the previous post, I'd like to see what the response is from our core exclusive authors as well as that is our major focus with the marketplaces. So far my impression is that the bulk of authors in this market are non-exclusive though.

Interestingly we do have some similar issues in 3D which is also not one of our core markets. I know cthoman mentioned GraphicRiver, but actually the vast majority of authors there are also exclusive.

I suppose though it may be that we have such high exclusivity rates because non-exclusives don't on the whole bother uploading to our marketplaces!! I'd not thought much about that possibility! :D
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 10, 2011, 00:35
If you raise commissions and extended license prices, I will be interested.  I think at least 40% for the contributor is fair for a site outside the top 4.  The more content you get, the more buyers will stick with your site and not look elsewhere.  If they are buying images elsewhere at the moment, there's no incentive to upload for 25% commission.  Perhaps not enough people are bothered about low commissions and you wont have to raise them but it still looks bad.  People still use istock with under 20% commission but just look at their relationship with their content providers.  There aren't many independents that have a good word to say about them now.  I think they are risking their business for the sake of short term profits.

I did upload 10, just in case you increase commissions in the future.  I might be interested in uploading exclusive content, if I can get 70% commission.  I see we have to choose to be either exclusive or not, other sites let us upload our non-exclusive portfolios and then submit exclusive images as well.  I think you will find that will work much better, I doubt many people would choose exclusive only and you will then lose out on their non-exclusive portfolios.  That's if we aren't allowed to open two accounts?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: cidepix on August 10, 2011, 03:06
People still use istock with under 20% commission but just look at their relationship with their content providers.  There aren't many independents that have a good word to say about them now.  I think they are risking their business for the sake of short term profits.

I did upload 10, just in case you increase commissions in the future.  

Some very good points there!

istockphoto is risking their business big time.. As an illustrator who is very much involved in graphic design business, I personally know many graphic designers and microstock buyers..

why is this important? You can guess :)

I am converting all the people that I know and telling them not to use istockphoto.. I am sure there are thousands of us doing the same..


And about GraphicRiver:

I have 125 vectors on GR.. that's only about 1/7 of my vector portfolio.. The main reasons I can't find the will to upload are:
1- upload process is so messy..
2- commission is quite low..
3- I don't want to deal with their reviewers who are the ultimate vector gurus in the universe..

In the past 3 weeks I created and uploaded about 40 vectors to all the worthy agents you can see on the right side of this page, while not uploading a single vector on graphicriver.. that should give you an idea!:)

I actually like the site but the above issues have been with them since I started and it looks like nothing is going to change soon..

I did join at my own will and did accept %25 commission.. That's true.. But their uploading experience is so ridiculous that it just doesn't justify the effort.. Just to let you know, it takes longer to upload a vector to GR than the notorious istockphoto.. YES, IT IS THAT BAD :)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: borg on August 10, 2011, 04:59
Deleted
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: jm on August 10, 2011, 05:47
I really don't like that previews are so big (especially portrait format) - it wouldn't be a problem but on some images the watermark is almost or totally invisible.

For example:
http://photodune.net/item/stacked-straw-hay-bails/269230?WT.ac=category_thumb (http://photodune.net/item/stacked-straw-hay-bails/269230?WT.ac=category_thumb)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Carl on August 10, 2011, 06:27
Too much work for too little.  I'm out.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Perry on August 10, 2011, 07:03
After thinking I think I'll pass on this one.

pros:
+existing Envato customers

cons:
-low royalty rate
-low prices on high resolution images and extended licences
-low sales volume

If at least one of the cons change, I'll reconsider. I'm already submitting to too many low earners...
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: borg on August 10, 2011, 08:19
I can't upload MRs!
 I put all required jpg MRs for one image in one zip file... After uploading I marked it on drop down menu as Model releases and submit..
But after submitting I get error message: "Release Forms must be a zip containing a '.pdf', '.jpg' or '.png', got a zip containing ''  ???
Aslo do I have to upload MRs for every new image with same models...?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 10, 2011, 08:40
Great! As well as Sharpshot, at 40% I would be very interested!

If you raise commissions and extended license prices, I will be interested.  I think at least 40% for the contributor is fair for a site outside the top 4...
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Perry on August 10, 2011, 09:46
Great! As well as Sharpshot, at 40% I would be very interested!

Heck, I would be interested even at 35%
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Xalanx on August 10, 2011, 10:06
Yes, they will get my 8000 images.
When they will significantly raise the percentage for non-exclusives.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 10, 2011, 10:16
I can't upload MRs!
 I put all required jpg MRs for one image in one zip file... After uploading I marked it on drop down menu as Model releases and submit..
But after submitting I get error message: "Release Forms must be a zip containing a '.pdf', '.jpg' or '.png', got a zip containing ''  ???
Aslo do I have to upload MRs for every new image with same models...?

still finding that out too.. I have been told that we should write on note to reviewer the name of the release, have done that, and some got in, but some need improvement (MR missing)

overall they are quite quick and kind on reply
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: jm on August 10, 2011, 10:18
It seems that many contributors have fogotten that money isn’t going to be what makes you all happy.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: cthoman on August 10, 2011, 10:32
Well I shall take it to the team for more discussion, and as I mentioned in the previous post, I'd like to see what the response is from our core exclusive authors as well as that is our major focus with the marketplaces. So far my impression is that the bulk of authors in this market are non-exclusive though.

Thanks for taking the time.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 10, 2011, 10:45
It seems that many contributors have fogotten that money isn’t going to be what makes you all happy.

stock is a jungle thatīs right.. top contributors are there already, why let them take all the money??
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Perry on August 10, 2011, 11:25
It seems that many contributors have fogotten that money isn’t going to be what makes you all happy.

Oh no, I'm not fooled with that one for a second time! :P
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Smithore on August 10, 2011, 12:45
Low royalties for non exclusive and prices of extended licenses are simply a big joke!!
Yes, we can let the top contributors selling there, the site is going to lack of new pictures and diversity...too bad, but i will not feed this new stingy.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: CD123 on August 10, 2011, 14:18
Personally I do not even consider following the lead of the "big contributors". These guys have ports of thousands and can rack up in a month what will take me years to do. They also have other avenues to uploading their huge ports than the personal painful image by image way I have to do it.

Their decision to add another income source must be much easier than for a person who will have to toil over another slow performing site and its painful uploading process (of which I have enough already).

The big guns are welcome to the bit of income there might be at the moment. I am definitely not going to spend all that time to see if a few morsels can drop my way.  If their sales justify in the end (top or top of middle tier), then I will reconsider. 
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 10, 2011, 15:04
Personally I do not even consider following the lead of the "big contributors". These guys have ports of thousands and can rack up in a month what will take me years to do. They also have other avenues to uploading their huge ports than the personal painful image by image way I have to do it.

Their decision to add another income source must be much easier than for a person who will have to toil over another slow performing site and its painful uploading process (of which I have enough already).

The big guns are welcome to the bit of income there might be at the moment. I am definitely not going to spend all that time to see if a few morsels can drop my way.  If their sales justify in the end (top or top of middle tier), then I will reconsider. 

true, their upload is smooth if you dont have MR pictures
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 10, 2011, 16:34
I don't mind other people making some money from this site.  If we all upload, at those commission rates, none of us will make much money.  I would rather hold out until they raise commissions or forget about it.  There's already far too many sites with a very similar strategy.  I really want to see a new site that tears up the rule book and tries something other than milking contributors.  I find it hard to believe that the first ever microstock sites came up with the most efficient way for contributors and buyers to do business.  Just look how google came along and improved the way everyone searches for things on the internet.  We really need them or someone as inovative to do a similar thing with selling stock images.  They will make so much money, they wont mind us getting our fair share.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: MatHayward on August 10, 2011, 17:24
NOTE THIS: The extended license price changes with the size. So, the extended license is only $5 for small files, and goes up to $35.

$5!

This seems to me to be a very scary precedent.  I get why a new site would want to low-ball prices to recruit new buyers but if it's successful this will be a bad trendsetting price point for the entire industry.  Nobody will benefit from this in the long run including Photodune in my opinion. 

Collis, can you elaborate a bit on the mindset behind the decision to charge such a small amount for extended licenses?

Thanks,

Mat
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on August 10, 2011, 17:41
I can't see anything at this point that encourages me to upload to PhotoDune.

The EL prices are a joke. Prices are low - as I know CanStock's are, but CanStock has Fotosearch as well, so there is some possibility of upside (not to mention that you get $25 on an EL vs. 25% of some varying and tiny amount).

I guess I should look the site over in more detail after vacation, but the first look doesn't seem promising to me.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 10, 2011, 17:49

Collis, can you elaborate a bit on the mindset behind the decision to charge such a small amount for extended licenses?

I think he already elaborated:

So I guess my feeling is that we are introducing new buyers, as well as (hopefully) siphoning off some buyers from our competitors :-)

Unfortunately it entails also siphoning off a substantial part of our royalties that we currently receive.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 10, 2011, 19:04
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: collis on August 10, 2011, 23:23
Thanks for all the feedback, lots to learn from this site! I have to say one of the best things about launching a stock photo marketplace is during our research I ended up finding Microstockgroup.com. I didn't know there were people here chatting about GraphicRiver all this time!

With relation to the upload process on GR that cidepix mentioned, I have to say, I agree it is pretty poor! I didn't realize how poor until we worked on the PhotoDune project. But our PD upload is much smoother (and getting better as we do more live testing) and one of our next projects is to port that same upload out to GraphicRiver. So hopefully it'll be better soon cidepix!!

And sorry I forgot to cover Extended Licenses in my last post, as Mat mentioned we do have a low multiple at the moment of x5 on whatever price that particular sized image has. This translates to $5-45 depending on what size you are buying.

There's a couple of reasons for this, but I should point out that it's easy to opt-out of this licensing. Of course if you're worried about industry trends as Mat is, then that's not exactly much comfort!

The main reason for the low multiple is actually that we were looking to drive usage of PhotoDune photos in templates for sale on GraphicRiver and ThemeForest. At the moment we have a lot of Creative Commons licensed imagery which is OK, but it would be nicer to have authors buying better photos to package in. Both because then there are sales going to photographers, and because presumably we'll have better looking templates as a result which will sell more themselves.

Additionally on our other sites we've noticed that lower extended license pricing drives more overall sales volume than when we have fewer people buying more expensive licenses. So we've been lowering a lot of our extended license prices over the years as it results in more overall dollars in sales.

At the end of the day, my experience has been it's much easier to raise prices than to lower them - the latter usually resulting in a lot of angry forum threads :-) And we've taken the tack that people can opt-out and not take on the pricing model.

But I certainly wouldn't want us to start a trend of low extended pricing, so I will take that to the team as well when we discuss the results of our first couple of months after launch!

In the meantime I can see there is lots for us to do to win over contributors from here on Microstockgroup, so I will give some thought as to how we can do that :-)

So far the launch seems to be going well. We've doubled up to past 4000 visitors coming in a day, and launch day was our second highest sales day for the fledgling site with just under $400 in a day. Pretty tiny numbers in the grand scheme of things, but even oak trees grow from little seeds!  Anyhow we've now emailed the Envato mailing listand next I need to start putting our marketing plan into action!

Hopefully I will have interesting news to report back here over the coming months ... and years! And hopefully some of that will slowly win you guys over ;-)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: MatHayward on August 10, 2011, 23:36
Wow Collis, great post!  Thanks for the information.  I'm going to check your site out tonight when I get home.

Good luck,

Mat
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: VB inc on August 11, 2011, 00:40
my experience with the envato marketplace is that it's a pretty great deal for the buyers. I just wish they would raise prices overall to compensate the authors a little better and raise the standards of the perceived value of goods sold.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: cidepix on August 11, 2011, 01:03
Thanks Collis.. Good luck with the work..
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 11, 2011, 01:51
I don't really want to sell EL's too cheaply.  As they aren't high volume, I think it's fair that we receive a reasonable amount for them.  Why not pay us a higher royalty for EL's?  Having to opt out is a real shame because it makes life more difficult for buyers.  I don't mind experimenting with slightly lower EL prices to see if the volume increases but these seem far too low.

It looks like I could get less for an EL than I would for an ordinary license with some sites, that really doesn't appeal to me.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: jm on August 11, 2011, 02:09
Quote
With relation to the upload process on GR that cidepix mentioned, I have to say, I agree it is pretty poor! I didn't realize how poor until we worked on the PhotoDune project. But our PD upload is much smoother (and getting better as we do more live testing) and one of our next projects is to port that same upload out to GraphicRiver. So hopefully it'll be better soon cidepix!!

Good news. Some time ago I wanted to join GR but after reading upload instructions I had to change my mind. It would take a minimum of one hour to understand how to upload and weeks and months for to that.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Carl on August 11, 2011, 05:58
It seems that many contributors have fogotten that money isn’t going to be what makes you all happy.

True.  But the lack of it will certainly make me unhappy!  (Not to mention hungry!)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Microstock Posts on August 11, 2011, 06:42
I don't mind other people making some money from this site.  If we all upload, at those commission rates, none of us will make much money.  I would rather hold out until they raise commissions or forget about it.  There's already far too many sites with a very similar strategy.  I really want to see a new site that tears up the rule book and tries something other than milking contributors.  I find it hard to believe that the first ever microstock sites came up with the most efficient way for contributors and buyers to do business.  Just look how google came along and improved the way everyone searches for things on the internet.  We really need them or someone as inovative to do a similar thing with selling stock images.  They will make so much money, they wont mind us getting our fair share.

I've been wishing for that too. I can't believe innovation is dead and people can only look at what their neighbours are doing and copy them. In the country I live in, this is a very common scenario. A man sets up a sate stall, people love it and throngs of people buy from him. The neighbour sees him making money and sets of a sate stall, other neighbours see them making money and they they set up sate stalls. It's really awesome, I never have to go very far for my sate and even several sate men everyday now pass my house on motorbikes selling sate. But they all complain about not having much money, which could be something to do with so many people selling exactly the same product. Evanto is a relatively big name, but they are entering a market which pretty much noone has managed to compete with the top four ever. If I'm not mistaken, fotolia was the last of the top 4, possibly 123rf may enter the top 4 one day, but if they do, look at how many years it would have taken them.

25% is pitiful by any agency, but what can we do? We still enjoy the sales on the agencies which give 15-20% and most of us upload because we like the money, despite the agencies getting SO much more. But on a new agency which needs images  and the current 200,000 compared to Shutterstock's 15 million or so, well lets just say that PhotoDune has an incredibly long way to go.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: borg on August 11, 2011, 07:08
What we can to do is to promote sites with better deal for us...
It is good on personal level and on complete market too...
That is the best way how to protect our effort...

So, let's start massive campaign of promoting our portfolios on agencies such as Alamy!!!

I hope that Evanto will be on that side between agencies one day... :)
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on August 11, 2011, 07:13
And sorry I forgot to cover Extended Licenses in my last post, as Mat mentioned we do have a low multiple at the moment of x5 on whatever price that particular sized image has. This translates to $5-45 depending on what size you are buying.

This doesn't make any sense.  An extended license is purchased to allow specific usage.  It has nothing to do with the size.  Why would someone printing 10 posters for sale, who needs an XXL pay much more than someone who needs extended printing rights of an M?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Microstock Posts on August 11, 2011, 07:18
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$

So that could be a regular large size sale or an Extended license sale at extra small size. Do they let you know what the sale was?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 11, 2011, 08:11
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$

I hope you get happy with the unspeakable success of earning 1.25$ while helping to drive the market in a destructive direction. Not only business wise it does not make sense, my pride has a higher price than that too.

People are afraid to lose the "next big thing", but finally they will destroy their "big things" they already have when they continue to act brainlessly like this.

We can make a difference. Thinkstock is far away to be a serious competition for sites like shutterstock thanks to the decision to opt out that many of us have made. Lets not give power to a company which already starts with unfair conditions.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 11, 2011, 09:08
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$

I hope you get happy with the unspeakable success of earning 1.25$ while helping to drive the market in a destructive direction. Not only business wise it does not make sense, my pride has a higher price than that too.

People are afraid to lose the "next big thing", but finally they will destroy their "big things" they already have when they continue to act brainlessly like this.

We can make a difference. Thinkstock is far away to be a serious competition for sites like shutterstock thanks to the decision to opt out that many of us have made. Lets not give power to a company which already starts with unfair conditions.

are you talking about ThinkStock? the 25% royalties are far from great but at least it isnīt 28 cents, I believe you should MESS you top contributors head, not a newbie on stock, beside that it is my own business where I sell my stuff
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 11, 2011, 09:09
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$

So that could be a regular large size sale or an Extended license sale at extra small size. Do they let you know what the sale was?

it was a M size (6MP) for 5$
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 11, 2011, 09:15
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$

I hope you get happy with the unspeakable success of earning 1.25$ while helping to drive the market in a destructive direction. Not only business wise it does not make sense, my pride has a higher price than that too.

People are afraid to lose the "next big thing", but finally they will destroy their "big things" they already have when they continue to act brainlessly like this.

We can make a difference. Thinkstock is far away to be a serious competition for sites like shutterstock thanks to the decision to opt out that many of us have made. Lets not give power to a company which already starts with unfair conditions.

are you talking about ThinkStock? the 25% royalties are far from great but at least it isnīt 28 cents, I believe you should MESS you top contributors head, not a newbie on stock, beside that it is my own business where I sell my stuff

Sure. Yes, the scheme of thinkstock is differenet. Nevertheless the direction where it drives us is the same.

I believe you should MESS you top contributors head, not a newbie on stock,

Guess I haven`t understood what you mean exactly by this, ehhhhh :o
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Xalanx on August 11, 2011, 09:16
And sorry I forgot to cover Extended Licenses in my last post, as Mat mentioned we do have a low multiple at the moment of x5 on whatever price that particular sized image has. This translates to $5-45 depending on what size you are buying.

This doesn't make any sense.  An extended license is purchased to allow specific usage.  It has nothing to do with the size.  Why would someone printing 10 posters for sale, who needs an XXL pay much more than someone who needs extended printing rights of an M?

Indeed.
Collis, the much higher price for EL is set so because the client requires specific usage for that image, for example - unlimited print. It has absolutely nothing to do with the image size.
As you may have noticed already, the difference in price between xsmall and xxxLarge is much smaller than between xxxLarge and EL, on normal agencies.... that big difference is for the usage, not the size. Of course, the buyer receives full resolution image. Your little trick of splitting the ELs on sizes won't do.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 11, 2011, 09:40
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$

I hope you get happy with the unspeakable success of earning 1.25$ while helping to drive the market in a destructive direction. Not only business wise it does not make sense, my pride has a higher price than that too.

People are afraid to lose the "next big thing", but finally they will destroy their "big things" they already have when they continue to act brainlessly like this.

We can make a difference. Thinkstock is far away to be a serious competition for sites like shutterstock thanks to the decision to opt out that many of us have made. Lets not give power to a company which already starts with unfair conditions.

are you talking about ThinkStock? the 25% royalties are far from great but at least it isnīt 28 cents, I believe you should MESS you top contributors head, not a newbie on stock, beside that it is my own business where I sell my stuff

Sure. Yes, the scheme of thinkstock is differenet. Nevertheless the direction where it drives us is the same.

I believe you should MESS you top contributors head, not a newbie on stock,

Guess I haven`t understood what you mean exactly by this, ehhhhh :o

I will explain you, open the agencies and see how many top 100 contributors are there, I wonīt name them here but they are there, if there are anyone suplying them are they, not me for sure..
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 11, 2011, 09:52
still stratching my head on this one but ok :)

just had a sale on my first day there, 1.25$

I hope you get happy with the unspeakable success of earning 1.25$ while helping to drive the market in a destructive direction. Not only business wise it does not make sense, my pride has a higher price than that too.

People are afraid to lose the "next big thing", but finally they will destroy their "big things" they already have when they continue to act brainlessly like this.

We can make a difference. Thinkstock is far away to be a serious competition for sites like shutterstock thanks to the decision to opt out that many of us have made. Lets not give power to a company which already starts with unfair conditions.

are you talking about ThinkStock? the 25% royalties are far from great but at least it isnīt 28 cents, I believe you should MESS you top contributors head, not a newbie on stock, beside that it is my own business where I sell my stuff

Sure. Yes, the scheme of thinkstock is differenet. Nevertheless the direction where it drives us is the same.

I believe you should MESS you top contributors head, not a newbie on stock,

Guess I haven`t understood what you mean exactly by this, ehhhhh :o

I will explain you, open the agencies and see how many top 100 contributors are there, I wonīt name them here but they are there, if there are anyone suplying them are they, not me for sure..

Who is the bigger fool? The fool, or the one who follows the fools?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 11, 2011, 09:58
I am really not going to continue this ridiculous discussion! Ok I am the only one here talking about them so you guys can pick on me, guess that I will leave this topic for you and other that wanna offend other, nice meeting you
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: milemobile on August 11, 2011, 10:27
Do somebody know where can i find if some of my images is rejected
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: CD123 on August 11, 2011, 18:05
Do somebody know where can i find if some of my images is rejected

Recycle Bin?  :D
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Batman on August 11, 2011, 19:31
Thanks for the heads up Leaf.
20 MP XXL for 9 USD x 25% = not very attractive
I'll pass for now.

SS OD pays 2,70 USD for a much smaller size.
Photodune Large 5 $ x 25% = 1,25 $. IS Large - around 2- 2,50 USD.
Extended Licence: 45 USD x 25% is a joke. :P

Race to the bottom, I don't think it is in our interest that this agency succeeds.

+1 We need less agencys not more, race to the bottom hurts us all. People with thousand images will like these new places for exposure it's a different way then most of us.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: sharpshot on August 12, 2011, 03:05
It's interesting that so many top contributors will accept 25% commissions, low prices and very low EL prices from a low selling site.  I can understand why others then join them.  It just fills me with fear for the future of microstock.  Perhaps I should just give up and upload to every site, ignoring what they pay but I find that very hard to do.  I tried uploading again to istock but I have this voice screaming in my head, "they only pay you 17%, you muppet".

I'm going to have to work harder at other ways to make money, I just don't enjoy working for such low commissions when it's obvious that the sites are just doing this out of greed.  Some of them used to pay 50% when hosting and advertising cost more and microstock was much smaller.  It looked like they were making a nice profit.  Pond5 still pay 50% and they must have much more expense, hosting all those big video files.  I know that I'm not going to persuade those that want to maximise their earnings in the short term that they are jeopardizing the future of microstock and I can understand the other side of the argument.  It's probably sensible to grab all that you can now but I just can't help thinking what happens next?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Microstock Posts on August 12, 2011, 04:17
It's interesting that so many top contributors will accept 25% commissions, low prices and very low EL prices from a low selling site.  I can understand why others then join them.  It just fills me with fear for the future of microstock.  Perhaps I should just give up and upload to every site, ignoring what they pay but I find that very hard to do.  I tried uploading again to istock but I have this voice screaming in my head, "they only pay you 17%, you muppet".

I'm going to have to work harder at other ways to make money, I just don't enjoy working for such low commissions when it's obvious that the sites are just doing this out of greed.  Some of them used to pay 50% when hosting and advertising cost more and microstock was much smaller.  It looked like they were making a nice profit.  Pond5 still pay 50% and they must have much more expense, hosting all those big video files.  I know that I'm not going to persuade those that want to maximise their earnings in the short term that they are jeopardizing the future of microstock and I can understand the other side of the argument.  It's probably sensible to grab all that you can now but I just can't help thinking what happens next?

I started microstock with 123rf and Dreamstime. They both offered 50% (DT have since dropped their commissions) and I just assumed they all offered 50%. I was really surprised when I found out that IS was only offering 20% and more too that this didn't seem to be much of an issue to anyone. I was thinking, why does everyone think this is normal, am I the one who's mad? When they dropped commissions to as low as 15%, why did it suddenly hit home for so many that they were being milked, it's not that much different from 20%. Why does it still not hit home to so many now. If you contribute to any site that pays less than 50% return for one of your images being licensed, make no doubt about it, you're a muppet and so am I, it doesn't matter how much you are earning. Yuri Arcurs is a very rich man, but he would be an awful lot richer had the agencies not taken the majority of earnings from his images. I got an EL today on Shutterstock, I get $28, which is nice (not great compared to others). Say if the buyer bought the minimum EL package which is $199 and 2 downloads, one of those downloads went to me, I get $28, the agency gets $71.50, not just from me but from everyone. Having said that I do still contribute, but I'm always looking for alternatives and I'm very critical of this industry, cos I ain't a complete muppet. It really is catch 22 though, the agencies have all the traffic, we get exposure through them, they know we want the exposure, they pay us the least they feel they can get away with.

So I never understand those who constantly praise agencies, are they completely brainwashed. They should do what they have to do to make some money, but they don't have to give so much respect to those who live lavishly off other people's backs. Rant over, expecting a backlash.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Smithore on August 12, 2011, 04:29
Totally agree with the last two posts !!!!  
One solution is government laws for all microstock sites with obligation to share 50% with the contributors, but i guess it's impossible in usa.
The other solution is to create a real microstockers community, cancel all accounts in the stingy sites (istock, photodune etc.) and promote fair sites.
But people are too selfish to manage such a fabulous change, because community spirit only works with people who rules the world, the others are simply lost, this forum is a community, but people are alone in reality  :-\.   
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: qwerty on August 12, 2011, 04:48
increase your % and you'll get a lot more content
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 12, 2011, 11:14
It's interesting that so many top contributors will accept 25% commissions, low prices and very low EL prices from a low selling site.  I can understand why others then join them.  It just fills me with fear for the future of microstock.  Perhaps I should just give up and upload to every site, ignoring what they pay but I find that very hard to do.  I tried uploading again to istock but I have this voice screaming in my head, "they only pay you 17%, you muppet".

I'm going to have to work harder at other ways to make money, I just don't enjoy working for such low commissions when it's obvious that the sites are just doing this out of greed.  Some of them used to pay 50% when hosting and advertising cost more and microstock was much smaller.  It looked like they were making a nice profit.  Pond5 still pay 50% and they must have much more expense, hosting all those big video files.  I know that I'm not going to persuade those that want to maximise their earnings in the short term that they are jeopardizing the future of microstock and I can understand the other side of the argument.  It's probably sensible to grab all that you can now but I just can't help thinking what happens next?

I agree 100% with all that you have said and other in this topic but letīs think about it..

IS, went to 15%, what have happened? some left, other joined, sales down.. overall it will continue to be number 1 or 2 for most contributors
FT, another cut on %, what have happened? same story! donīt think that contributor will abandon them
DT, cut to 25% on level 0 and subs seem to be on the raise (at least for a big part that shows on a topic I open a while ago).. DT wonīt dissapear of the market, many people have big RPD there

on the other hand SF and GLO seem to be very cool agencies with very nice 50 and 52%.. but far will they go?

SF is open for one year.. I guess 95% still waiting for first payment.. lack of investment from them as they keep on promising it is going to happen..
GLO seem to be the same thing or perhaps they are a lot more into illustrations..

in the end what do we have left, yep the top 4, 5 agencies including 123RF which is performing nicely for me even above FT, DT and IS sometimes

stock is very hard to deal really, if we look into what will be the future that would be even harder but I am sure things will stay the same for a long time and or we collect as much as possible or we are losing big time once big % will never come and agencies that are willing to give that to us will never make it..

beside this I do agree that photodune must raise the % to like 35% and the EL prices which seem a "little" low
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: borg on August 12, 2011, 11:49
Yep! Photodune, raise our part on 35-40% (can be based on levels) and you have big chance to be in Top Tier...
I think that isn't big deal if Yuri or someone like him is already there, it has to be massive campaign of every contributor who want to be part of new multimedia market...
Your chance is bigger than any other new agency till now, only because Photo Dune is part of other successful multimedia market...
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 12, 2011, 12:02
People are constantly screaming for a union, but in fact, they just want someone bigger then themselves who is saving them from the bad agencies. But this is NOT the Idea of a union.

In a Union, you have to start with YOURSELF to refuse to accept certain conditions from greedy companies. And because MANY act like this it is working and called a Union. Sadly, there are those folks who do everything for 1.25 $. But as Sharshot said, I have this voice in my head "they....". And yes, my workd and pride has a higher price.

We do not have a union (yet). But we have a community and many of us share the same thoughts. If you do no accept the rate of 25% please post below, so maybe we can change something together.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 12, 2011, 12:17
some people just donīt read properly or even want a clear "fight" but only bully other, really donīt have time for those who walk in here to talk randomly
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 12, 2011, 12:48
It's interesting that so many top contributors will accept 25% commissions, low prices and very low EL prices from a low selling site.  I can understand why others then join them.  It just fills me with fear for the future of microstock.  

We shouldn't always assume that the top contributors get the same c****y conditions as the rest.
Theoretically a new site could offer excellent terms to some top contributors, like upload bonus, 50% or more commission and see what would happen:
the muppets see Yuri's port on such a theoretical site and would instantly queue to upload their stuff there, even if the site paid them 10 cents for an EL. The muppets cannot think independently, they have to follow somebody but don't understand that what applies to Yuri, doesn't always have to apply to them or to other people - different league, different rules. Few weeks later other sites cut commissions and prices in order to stay competitive with the low-ball agency and the muppets can only change their avatars to "contributor against proposed commission changes" :P. The urge to earn a few bucks more makes them blind and they fail to see the relationship between the cause and the effect.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 12, 2011, 12:57
It's interesting that so many top contributors will accept 25% commissions, low prices and very low EL prices from a low selling site.  I can understand why others then join them.  It just fills me with fear for the future of microstock.  

We shouldn't always assume that the top contributors get the same c****y conditions as the rest.
Theoretically a new site could offer excellent terms to some top contributors, like upload bonus, 50% or more commission and see what would happen:
the muppets see Yuri's port on such a theoretical site and would instantly queue to upload their stuff there, even if the site paid them 10 cents for an EL. The muppets cannot think independently, they have to follow somebody but don't understand that what applies to Yuri, doesn't always have to apply to them or to other people - different league, different rules. Few weeks later other sites cut commissions and prices in order to stay competitive with the low-ball agency and the muppets can only change their avatars to "contributor against proposed commission changes" :P. The urge to earn a few bucks more makes them blind and they fail to see the relationship between the cause and the effect.

those muppets you are talking are the ones killing microstock? were they the ones that asked for 15% royalties at IS? gime me a break my friend and talk seriously and perhaps work a little instead of talking without thinking

p.s: this will be my last post on this topic, not going to be the scapegoat
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 12, 2011, 13:16
People are constantly screaming for a union, but in fact, they just want someone bigger then themselves who is saving them from the bad agencies.

Instead of a union, some of these people should attend a math course first.

We do not have a union (yet). But we have a community and many of us share the same thoughts. If you do no accept the rate of 25% please post below, so maybe we can change something together.

I don't see the percentage as the main problem with Photodune. If their prices were at IS level, 25% wouldn't be very bad, just not really attractive. The main problems are their ridiculous, insulting prices because they might force other agencies to adjust theirs.

Basically, the more market share Photodune gets, the more the value of the stock market will shrink. The more success this agency has, the less royalties will be paid to photographers in the whole market.
They don't create any new markets, there are enough buyers who are happy with current prices, Photodune's c####y prices make the value of the stock market shrink.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: velocicarpo on August 12, 2011, 13:32
BTW: We shouldn`t care so much about the "top" contributors. How many images images does Yuri have? 30000? 40000? To run a Microstock site successfully you need Millions and the support of the Many instead jsut a couple of big names.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Snufkin on August 12, 2011, 13:33
those muppets you are talking are the ones killing microstock? were they the ones that asked for 15% royalties at IS? gime me a break my friend and talk seriously and perhaps work a little instead of talking without thinking
p.s: this will be my last post on this topic, not going to be the scapegoat

I wasn't referring specifically to the recent cuts at IS, but to the general downward trend. The example with the avatars was only to illustrate the helplessness of contributors when the rates are cut. It was not my intention to offend you or attack you in any way, Luis. My language might have been harsh, but the intention was to make people think. Photodune's launch is very bad news for us all.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: cthoman on August 12, 2011, 14:32
BTW: We shouldn`t care so much about the "top" contributors. How many images images does Yuri have? 30000? 40000? To run a Microstock site successfully you need Millions and the support of the Many instead jsut a couple of big names.

It depends on what you define as successful. You could run a site that only has one or two artists that is much more profitable for the artist than all of the other agencies. Obviously, bigger agencies are going to have more volume, but they'll spend a lot more too. I guess it's not really too much different than contributors. You can hire a staff and create a stock factory or you can do it yourself. You might make less doing it solo, but you'll spend less too. Finding a sweet spot is what it is all about.

Back on topic, it will be interesting to see if they come back with a better deal at the Envato sites. They seemed willing to listen about higher royalties and prices to attract more contributors. It really would not take too much to attract me away from the established players. Just someone stepping up to be a real partner. That seems to be a tall order for the big 4 though.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: borg on August 12, 2011, 14:51
Photo dune should have smaller prices than Istock, but better percentage for contributor part of earnings... So for big impact they have to bring us more money per sale than on top tier agencies, but with a bit less prices for customers...
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: grp_photo on August 12, 2011, 15:44
Uploading to every crappy site doesn't have a great future no matter how many Yuris do it.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: graficallyminded on August 12, 2011, 16:11
Quote from: luissantos84
true, their upload is smooth if you dont have MR pictures

Amen.  Uploading MR's repeatedly, according to each upload batch, is archaic - this is something Photodune needs to seriously reconsider, because it's not microstock industry standard at all.  Normally you upload the MR once, and assign them later on in the backend, prior to submission of successive images.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: luissantos84 on August 12, 2011, 16:22
Quote from: luissantos84
true, their upload is smooth if you dont have MR pictures

Amen.  Uploading MR's repeatedly, according to each upload batch, is archaic - this is something Photodune needs to seriously reconsider, because it's not microstock industry standard at all.  Normally you upload the MR once, and assign them later on in the backend, prior to submission of successive images.

yep!
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: RacePhoto on August 13, 2011, 16:20
It's interesting that so many top contributors will accept 25% commissions, low prices and very low EL prices from a low selling site.  I can understand why others then join them.  It just fills me with fear for the future of microstock.  Perhaps I should just give up and upload to every site, ignoring what they pay but I find that very hard to do.  I tried uploading again to istock but I have this voice screaming in my head, "they only pay you 17%, you muppet".


It's the volume sales and there are people that would take 10% if a site offered it, because every site added, means more income. No real work, just hit upload and send your 4000 photos to another place.

This is the race to the bottom and the perfect example of competing with oneself. All the way into the eventual end when there are 100 sites all selling the same images and paying very little, so only the high volume sellers can make enough income to make it worthwhile. Everyone else will be drivin out of the market.

Kind of like all the big box stores and mega franchises that drove all the little guys out of business.

The big suppliers are the big contributors and the agencies are their marketing arm and what's left is occasional sale and the bare minimum for the rest of us. We represent the small stores, being put out of business by the big photo factories and contributors. Better take another look, those people are NOT our friends. They are killing the business just as much as the agencies are, but cutting prices and commissions. The contributors do it, but joining ever agency that comes along for whatever money they can grab.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: CD123 on August 13, 2011, 16:48
+1
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on August 13, 2011, 17:12
"The contributors do it, but joining ever agency that comes along for whatever money they can grab."

Amen, brother!
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: qwerty on August 13, 2011, 17:53
"The contributors do it, but joining ever agency that comes along for whatever money they can grab."

Amen, brother!

Yeap we should I ditch microstock and join Getty RM only
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: RacePhoto on August 14, 2011, 20:55
"The contributors do it, but joining ever agency that comes along for whatever money they can grab."

Amen, brother!

Yeap we should I ditch microstock and join Getty RM only

Not my point. There are different ways to work the market. Photos are different than illustrations and graphics. This is for photos.

1) Shotgun: If there are 50 "Low Earners" agencies and someone makes $10 a month at them, with a huge portfolio, that's $120 a year * 50 = $6000 for doing nothing more than just uploading to everyplace. That's a fair plan and works for some people.

2) Cherry Picking: Others will take the top five or six and work them for what it's worth, banking on the highest return for their effort. (I'm not going to argue time and return for smaller portfolios, where someone makes $10-$50 a year, it's not worth my time, in My Opinion...)

3) Optimum Return: IS and SS, don't bother with the smaller sites that hardly bring in income for someone with under 500 photos. Two places make the most money, it's that simple. Even the people who work 10 or 20 agencies will show in their percentages that SS and IS are consistent earners and either one brings in more than #3-6 added together.

4) Exclusive: Works fine, one place, one direction, know your buyers and market, you don't compete with yourself and you know who's distributing your images if there are any legal issues. Many reasons why it's a good plan with fewer headaches and less stress.

Everyone has to decide what they think is best and what works best for the time and efforts. There's no one right answer. But people with 10,000 photos who upload to 50 sites and will upload to anyone else that comes along, are not helping everyone else with the other ways of selling. 2-3-4 do not cannibalize each other and don't impact each other in a negative manner.

ps I'm virtually #3, IS/PP + StockXpert/ThinkStock which is one agency, and SS/BigStock which is the other.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Andrey Popov on August 28, 2011, 15:58
Trying to upload my portfolio, but "processing" is killing me. 20 files took 3+ hours to process. After that uploaded 144 files and it's processing for 4 days already!

How uploading is working for you? Is there is a way to avoid painfully slow processing?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: johnbarton on August 29, 2011, 01:36
Trying to upload my portfolio, but "processing" is killing me. 20 files took 3+ hours to process. After that uploaded 144 files and it's processing for 4 days already!

How uploading is working for you? Is there is a way to avoid painfully slow processing?

Hey everyone (and Andrey specifically), I'm the development manager on the envato marketplaces, of which PhotoDune is one. Collis asked me to pop over here and explain what was going on with uploading this weekend.

We've been experiencing some problems over the past couple of weeks where our dedicated photo-processing servers were starting to effect all of the live website traffic, so we'd disabled half of the servers until we can resolve the underlying problem. This was made worse over the weekend with half of our remaining photo servers getting stuck on particular photos and not working down our queue of jobs.

We should be quicker than we were over the weekend right now, and we're working as hard as we can on fixing the underlying problem so we can ramp the server count right back up and process everyone's files really quickly.
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Microbius on August 30, 2011, 04:35
All those using Yuri as a guide for where to upload need to take a look at their own portfolios and think about their strategy.
Yuri knows that a certain big chunk of his portfolio will date quickly, look at business photos from the nineties, you may think today's suits etc. are timeless, but in a couple of years we'll be laughing at the fashion faux pas.
It doesn't seem like he uploads everything everywhere, it's probably just that he has realized he needs to squeeze every available bit out of the stuff with the approaching end of shelf life out everywhere he can while he can. Squeezing the end of that long tail.
Also bear in mind that he has been seeing diminishing returns for a while, he may be prioritizing non direct revenue streams, while getting the brand as known as possible by spreading it about regardless.
What makes sense for these guys won't necessarily make sense for the rest of us, so think very hard before uploading to any new sites with terms and prices as bad as PhotoDune has. If you are looking for some low earners how about supporting the ones that have better terms?
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: CD123 on August 30, 2011, 06:45
Sound advice Microbius!
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Microstock Posts on August 30, 2011, 06:50
Sound advice Microbius!

+1
Title: Re: PhotoDune in Open Beta
Post by: Smithore on August 30, 2011, 08:32
Agree too!!