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Author Topic: PhotoDune Non-ex Rate Increase from 25% to 33%  (Read 20808 times)

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« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2011, 17:15 »
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@microstock posts - So what if PD's motivation is financial instead of altruistic in raising their royalty % and treating contributors with respect?  Other sites' income depends on it too, you would think, but they still treat us like dog droppings. Credit where credit is due IMO.

Credit goes to all the fantastic photographers and artists who produce such outstanding stuff for microstock and quite frankly agencies should be thanking their lucky stars for having access to such incredible talent, as well as making as much money as they do from it, even the agencies that offer 50%. Very often those who work for and run agencies have little clue about the amount of work that goes into producing images and they should know. Here we are in a situation which is so bad that if an agency increases its commission from 25% to 33%, people think they deserve credit. Believe me they would much rather still be taking 75%, I know that because they tried to already.

Credit goes to companies like Canstockphoto, 123rf and others, which maintain giving 50% commission to those who contribute to them despite having ample opportunity to lower them. Microstockers seem to have a yearning to Woo Yay something, Woo Yay these guys, not PD. PD starts off low (I wonder why) and then increases to not as low as before, and know how to smile and charm, is suddenly propelled into some kind of wonderful agency because their bird droppings are smaller than others. They're still sheeting on us nonetheless. It's a step in the right direction, but they're still 17% away from 123rf, who did it the hard way without being greedy. I give them credit for that.

If their is any concession by an agency it's usually because they were unable to get away with what they really wanted. This mentality of praising agencies who know how to charm and be polite, but at the same time still want to take a massive chunk of the pie from each and every sale, I can not fathom. I really wish I could one day give PD a lot of credit, but I don't think it's due yet.
 


« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2011, 18:40 »
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This mentality of praising agencies who know how to charm and be polite, but at the same time still want to take a massive chunk of the pie from each and every sale
On the other hand, read Karimala (amongst others) and how little she/they made with her/their own site. How many of the Ktoolers got back their initial investment in kTools? How is Dan's Warmpictures doing?

A shy voice (or even 10,20) somewhere in a large filled sports stadium won't be heard. It takes a lot of muscle ($) to market a site and IT specialists to maintain it and assure the smooth buyer's experience. It takes at least one manager with a very clear mind. It also takes at least one person for customer care and some customers can be high-maintenance. Those kind of people need to be kept on board with a decent and competitive salary that has to be put on the table, month after month. I think we underestimate the cost to keep a high-volume site up and running.

Everybody's darling, Dreamstime, had to go back from 50 to 30%. They also suggested that the level system could be unsustainable for subs. In that context, 33% is a bearable offer if Envato indeed can convince its (non-micro minded) customer base to buy stock at PD. That's indeed their only asset for the contributor, new customers, but will Envato's success in other graphic areas translate into fast raising sales in their microstock Walmart? Because if not, the offer is worse than Dreamstime's with their level system. In other words, the contributor total revenue at PD should reflect after a while that they can deliver.
And of course, work needs to be done on their over-emphasis of sizes and the ridiculous low price of EL's.

It will be a nice experience to observe how total beginners like iRockstock (and Stockfresh) will be doing the coming year compared to PD with its head start in their fight against players in a market that has already been taken.

Just twocents etc...

« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2011, 20:15 »
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without seeing the books I am VERY skeptical of any claims that sites have to drop commissions to be sustainable - especially when they are dropping our % under 20%- except maybe to sustain their bonuses.

collis

  • Hello! I work at Envato!
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2011, 23:21 »
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Hey all! Thanks so much for all , praise, criticism and comments!

I'm about to go on vacation (to Hawaii!!!!!), so am falling behind with everything in my rush to prepare. So sorry about the long time between replying on my own thread :)

So here are some responses to some of the questions/issues people raised:

(1) Do the Rates Apply to GraphicRiver too?
Yes they do! All our rates on the Envato Marketplaces are across the board. The main concentrations of non-exclusives on our marketplaces are in VideoHive (footage), 3DOcean (3d), AudioJungle (music), GraphicRiver (vectors) and all will get the benefit of the rate bump.

(2) Pricing and License Options
In our first few months we've been doing some experimenting with price and license options. Typically with our sites we try not to make too many changes too fast, so we often wait a while before re-evaluating price points, sizing, license options and so on. I'd say that the current settings are going to be in for a while, but we'll be re-examining them some time next year.

(3) Is 33% a fair rate?
This is an interesting question, and I think you can make a good case either way because percentages are only part of the story.

Some industries pay way less - book authors for example get some pretty low %'s even for exclusive deals. While others pay much more, e.g. Apple pays 70% in its app store which I guess is non-exclusive, though where else you would sell is beyond me.

For me I feel that 33% is better than our old rate of 25%. On that I think we can all agree! Even Microstock Posts seems on board with this assertion :)

As I mentioned in my original post, our tilt at Envato is towards exclusive content. Originally when we entered the audio space with AudioJungle, our marketplace was dominated by non-exclusive authors, however over time many have slowly converted into exclusives, and more have started out that way.

I recognize this may be a completely impractical strategy in photography, and maybe I will be laughed off the forums, but I hope that one day in the future we will have a library with a large portion of exclusive photographic content. How exactly we get there is still a mystery to me. But that's what I am working on anyhow!

In the meantime our focus is getting earnings up for anyone who sells on PhotoDune, and so raising our non-exclusive rate is one way we are trying to achieve that.


(4) How can 95% of our sales be exclusive?
To be clear, most of our *photo* sales are non-exclusive. It's everything else that is exclusive mostly.

PhotoDune is just one of nine Envato Marketplaces, most of which are exclusive dominated. And at least for now PhotoDune is pretty little in the scheme of things over here, and hasn't managed to impact this figure yet. Though I hope that will change! In which case I will likely be reporting a larger % of non-exclusive sales in the future!

Actually even the Envato Marketplaces are just part of our sites. We also operate the Tuts+ tutorial network, the AppStorm network of blogs, and a few other sites. So only about half our traffic goes to the marketplaces, with another 10 million or so visits going elsewhere in our network.

We have a large community around Envato, which is one reason why our sales have been growing well so far! :)

(5) What's with the throttle on forum posting?
A couple of people got the 'wait 10 minutes' post, that will go away once you've been on the site a little while. It's because our sites get a variety of unpleasant spam attacks, so we profile new users and limit their abilities, with those restrictions disappearing over time (or when you buy an item, because we haven't encountered spammers prepared to pay for things yet :)

Still a good point about not wiping out the content so you can resubmit in 10minutes. I'll mention that to the guys to get fixed, thanks jsnover for the suggestion!


---

Thanks guys for all the posts and comments! I particularly liked Microstock Posts bird poop post, though I really hope that's not how we come across!

Smithore usually gives me some good comments, but I think he's on vacation at the moment. So in his absence, I will make a mental note that when we've won over Microstock Posts, we've finally made it in the world of stock photography :)

Well on that note, I am off on vacation, so will be offline for a while. A few of our other staff have been popping in here now and again, so you should still hear from PhotoDune/Envato staff. Of course you are all welcome to come over to PhotoDune's forums as well ;)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 01:28 by collis »

« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2011, 23:48 »
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I slogged through the legal stuff over at PhotoDune and it still says 25% everywhere I saw a percentage for independents,  When is this going to change? (or is it actually at 33% now but all of the text still just says 25%?

CreatingDrew

  • Hi, I'm Drew from the Envato Support Team! :-)
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2011, 00:01 »
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I slogged through the legal stuff over at PhotoDune and it still says 25% everywhere I saw a percentage for independents,  When is this going to change? (or is it actually at 33% now but all of the text still just says 25%?


Howdy!

The rate change takes effect on December 1st AEDT at 12:01 am. More info here - http://notes.envato.com/general/non-exclusive-rates-increasing-to-33-on-december-1st/ :)

« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2011, 01:35 »
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Thanks for the answer.

« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2011, 12:48 »
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Can anyone tell me, what is the average amount per dowload you receive from PhotoDune? Thanks.

« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2011, 12:51 »
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Can anyone tell me, what is the average amount per dowload you receive from PhotoDune? Thanks.

August 2011    8 Sales    $6.65
September 2011    34 Sales    $32.50
October 2011    28 Sales    $18.25
November 2011    38 Sales    $21.75
Total Sales    108 Sales    $79.15

« Reply #84 on: November 28, 2011, 13:05 »
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Thanks, I make that 73 cents RPD at present, and rising to about 96 cents from Dec 1, when the increase kicks in. How does that compare with the others, I am IS exc. so can't do my own comparisons.

« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2011, 13:18 »
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Thanks, I make that 73 cents RPD at present, and rising to about 96 cents from Dec 1, when the increase kicks in. How does that compare with the others, I am IS exc. so can't do my own comparisons.

I am a small earner (around 1k/month lately) but let me tell you the top5 agencies rpd (2 years and half on microstock)
SS 0.46$
IS 0.56$ (without PP 1.22$)
FT 0.75$
DT 0.81$
123RF 0.79$

« Reply #86 on: November 28, 2011, 13:32 »
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Thanks, I make that 73 cents RPD at present, and rising to about 96 cents from Dec 1, when the increase kicks in. How does that compare with the others, I am IS exc. so can't do my own comparisons.
Dreamstime: 1.88$ RPD Nov 2011, 1.28$ over 5 years average. 50% subs at 0.35$ so for credit sales, DT should be around 3$ as a non-exclusive. It has to be said that DT exclusives catch about 3-5x more total revenue by the search engine bias and the 50% share on a comparable port. I guess exclusivity weighs heavier on DT than on IS if you make abstraction of Vetta etc.
Horse (equus) : if you play with the idea to drop the IS crown, you need to go all the way and upload to all possible sites, not only PD.  If not, you better stick with IS and hope for better weather.  ;)
PD will be diluted soon since everybody seems to be jumping on the bandwagon. Veer still makes a lot more as to RPD (for me).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 13:40 by AttilaTheNun »

lisafx

« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2011, 14:12 »
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I recognize this may be a completely impractical strategy in photography, and maybe I will be laughed off the forums, but I hope that one day in the future we will have a library with a large portion of exclusive photographic content. How exactly we get there is still a mystery to me. But that's what I am working on anyhow!



Sounds like a reasonable goal to me.  If I may make a suggestion, offering IMAGE exclusivity would probably get you some good exclusive content.   Given your impressive sales record, I would be happy to try out some exclusive images on your site to see how they do. 

As another suggestion, a premium collection with image exclusivity might be a great option for some of us who would like to experiment with more high concept images, at a higher price point, similar to what Istock exclusives do with Vetta. 

Just some thoughts to consider as you are basking in the Hawaiian sun with your Mai Tai ;)

WarrenPrice

« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2011, 14:22 »
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I recognize this may be a completely impractical strategy in photography, and maybe I will be laughed off the forums, but I hope that one day in the future we will have a library with a large portion of exclusive photographic content. How exactly we get there is still a mystery to me. But that's what I am working on anyhow!



Sounds like a reasonable goal to me.  If I may make a suggestion, offering IMAGE exclusivity would probably get you some good exclusive content.   Given your impressive sales record, I would be happy to try out some exclusive images on your site to see how they do. 

As another suggestion, a premium collection with image exclusivity might be a great option for some of us who would like to experiment with more high concept images, at a higher price point, similar to what Istock exclusives do with Vetta. 

Just some thoughts to consider as you are basking in the Hawaiian sun with your Mai Tai ;)

Ditto

« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2011, 14:47 »
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Yep, me too.  I'll never be agency exclusive; I don't like restrictions, and am well aware that even the best deal today may turn out to be a millstone around my neck in the future.  But image exclusivity is another matter, especially as I get a better and better sense of what kind of content I should create for PhotoDune's customers. 


WarrenPrice

« Reply #91 on: November 28, 2011, 16:57 »
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I don't have an account, Josh, but your agency is getting more and more interesting.

Do you accept editorial images?

joshsprague

  • I work at Envato! How can I help?
« Reply #92 on: November 28, 2011, 17:10 »
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I don't have an account, Josh, but your agency is getting more and more interesting.

Do you accept editorial images?

Hi Warren! Thanks for your interest, We're not currently accepting editorial photos. They require different licensing, etc. that we're not yet ready for.  It's in the plans, but we're not quite there yet.  Please let me know if I can help.

lisafx

« Reply #93 on: November 28, 2011, 17:39 »
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Actually image exclusivity is an option on all the marketplace sites.  You need to create an Exclusive account and upload the images you intend to sell exclusively at PhotoDune to that account.  To be clear, this means you will have an exclusive and non-exclusive account, but it will help you accomplish what you are after.

We look forward to seeing your exclusive images Lisa, Warren and disorderly!

Thanks for the info Josh.  Will definitely plan on doing that when I get back to work, post studio renovation :)

« Reply #94 on: November 28, 2011, 18:05 »
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In our brief experience with Photodune, Image exclusivity via a separate account on Photodune could makes sense. We're seriously thinking about it, too. From the handful of sales per day we're averaging on Photodune, so far, the majority of the sold files have not sold elsewhere for years. It's too early to tell, but it sure looks promising.

« Reply #95 on: November 28, 2011, 18:26 »
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Actually image exclusivity is an option on all the marketplace sites.  You need to create an Exclusive account and upload the images you intend to sell exclusively at PhotoDune to that account.  To be clear, this means you will have an exclusive and non-exclusive account, but it will help you accomplish what you are after.

We look forward to seeing your exclusive images Lisa, Warren and disorderly!

Would that entail a whole seperate account, name, email, etc along with applying a second time?

joshsprague

  • I work at Envato! How can I help?
« Reply #96 on: November 28, 2011, 19:03 »
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Actually image exclusivity is an option on all the marketplace sites.  You need to create an Exclusive account and upload the images you intend to sell exclusively at PhotoDune to that account.  To be clear, this means you will have an exclusive and non-exclusive account, but it will help you accomplish what you are after.

We look forward to seeing your exclusive images Lisa, Warren and disorderly!

Would that entail a whole seperate account, name, email, etc along with applying a second time?

Hi rosta! Yes, I believe you would.  This may change in the future, and I acknowledge it might not be the most elegant solution, but hopefully it will work in the mean time for anyone looking for an option to sell some images exclusively :)

@corepics & lisafx, glad to hear you are considering this as an option, and really hope it works out well for you.

« Reply #97 on: November 28, 2011, 20:55 »
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How long is your current review time, if I may ask?

« Reply #98 on: November 28, 2011, 22:36 »
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How long is your current review time, if I may ask?

My account was reviewed and approved within 24 hours.

Mat

CreatingDrew

  • Hi, I'm Drew from the Envato Support Team! :-)
« Reply #99 on: November 29, 2011, 00:04 »
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How long is your current review time, if I may ask?

Hey Flashon,

Times can vary depending on how busy we are at any given time, but photo submissions generally are reviewed within 3-4 days and portfolio submissions generally within 24 hours or so :)

-Drew


 

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