Author Topic: Conflict with exclusive images? (Read 2113 times)

Les · « **on:** July 04, 2012, 17:20 »

If I have an exclusive image i.e. with DT or RM on Alamy, may I sell the same image as print on my own website or another site, such as FAA or Zenfolio?

ShadySue · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2012, 17:25 »

Quote from: Les on July 04, 2012, 17:20

If I have an exclusive image i.e. with DT or RM on Alamy, may I sell the same image as print on my own website or another site, such as FAA or Zenfolio?

I didn't think there was an RM/exclusive option with Alamy.
As for DT, I guess it will be in their T&C.

Les · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2012, 17:39 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 04, 2012, 17:25

Quote from: Les on July 04, 2012, 17:20
If I have an exclusive image i.e. with DT or RM on Alamy, may I sell the same image as print on my own website or another site, such as FAA or Zenfolio?
I didn't think there was an RM/exclusive option with Alamy.
As for DT, I guess it will be in their T&C.

In my understanding, RM option is by definition exclusive. The agency controls the licensing and distribution.

ShadySue · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2012, 17:56 »

Quote from: Les on July 04, 2012, 17:39

Quote from: ShadySue on July 04, 2012, 17:25
Quote from: Les on July 04, 2012, 17:20
If I have an exclusive image i.e. with DT or RM on Alamy, may I sell the same image as print on my own website or another site, such as FAA or Zenfolio?

I didn't think there was an RM/exclusive option with Alamy.
As for DT, I guess it will be in their T&C.

In my understanding, RM option is by definition exclusive. The agency controls the licensing and distribution.

Alamy does not require exclusivity. RM is not necessarily exclusive. If a buyer wants to purchase exclusive use, Alamy will contact you to make sure the exclusivity they require is available.
First page of the Alamy guide for potential sellers:
... "We do not ask for exclusivity" and also from the same page: "you have a non-exclusive contract ..."
http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/sell-images.asp

Karimala · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2012, 19:29 »

All of the exclusive agreements I'm aware of stipulate the image cannot be sold under an RF license anywhere else, not that you can't sell the image as prints or on T-shirts. You still retain the right to sell is as anything other than an RF license.

Also, RM means an image price is determined by the type of usage plus size needed plus type of publication, etc. RF means price is determined by size plus file type only.

grafix04 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:27 »

Quote from: Karimala on July 04, 2012, 19:29

All of the exclusive agreements I'm aware of stipulate the image cannot be sold under an RF license anywhere else, not that you can't sell the image as prints or on T-shirts. You still retain the right to sell is as anything other than an RF license.

Not with DT. Their convoluted terms won't allow exclusive images to be sold anywhere as anything other than RF. Not even on a T-Shirt on a POD. Makes no sense at all.

Les · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2012, 09:48 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 05, 2012, 05:27

Quote from: Karimala on July 04, 2012, 19:29
All of the exclusive agreements I'm aware of stipulate the image cannot be sold under an RF license anywhere else, not that you can't sell the image as prints or on T-shirts. You still retain the right to sell is as anything other than an RF license.

Not with DT. Their convoluted terms won't allow exclusive images to be sold anywhere as anything other than RF. Not even on a T-Shirt on a POD. Makes no sense at all.

Thank you for all the tips.

Karimala · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2012, 10:20 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 05, 2012, 05:27

Quote from: Karimala on July 04, 2012, 19:29
All of the exclusive agreements I'm aware of stipulate the image cannot be sold under an RF license anywhere else, not that you can't sell the image as prints or on T-shirts. You still retain the right to sell is as anything other than an RF license.

Not with DT. Their convoluted terms won't allow exclusive images to be sold anywhere as anything other than RF. Not even on a T-Shirt on a POD. Makes no sense at all.

You're right...that doesn't make sense, because a buyer can purchase an exclusive image and use it for POD. We should have the same rights, especially since we are the copyright owner, and selling an image license vs selling a product with that image are two completely different things.

The TOS says "Exclusive images may only be sold through Dreamstime.com and may not be offered through other channels," but nowhere in the TOS does it say anything about channels being anything other than agencies. And yet, "Tangie" the Dreamstime Admin who Leaf interviewed a couple of years ago replies to someone on the forum that it does indeed include every possible outlet, including POD shops with intermediaries (see http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_30273). She explains:

Quote

Other channels include art galleries, retail outlets, online shops, similar agencies etc because they are intermediaries facilitating the sale and they retain a commission from these sales.

...which just plain sounds silly and greedy. All the POD companies I deal with earn their commissions from the product sale as a whole...not just my image, like the stock agencies. And only two tack on an actual image commission. Zazzle adds a 5% commission to all products listed with 20% commissions and above (which means they don't earn anything on products with commissions set at 19% or below...and it only applies to the % above 19%, not the first 19%), and Society6 adds a 4% commission. Peanuts...again, unlike the stock agencies, which take the bulk of our royalties. POD companies make their money from the product markups, not the image markups.

I have some exclusive images at DT, and the way I read the TOS when signing the agreements was they had meant "agencies only," since 1) agencies are the only outlets mentioned in the TOS and 2) DT doesn't offer POD services. I would think if the TOS really means ALL channels, and not just stock image/agency outlets, the TOS would include them so as to avoid confusion.

So which is it? Hmmmm, Dreamstime?

Les · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2012, 16:08 »

Here is another tricky question about exclusive images.
Let's say you have a 4200x2800pixel image as an exclusive image with one agency.

1. Can you submit a small crop from that image (i.e. 1800x2500) to another agency?
Different composition because of cropping, perhaps even different orientation, but it originated from the same image. Would it qualify as a different image?

2. How about if you process the original image differently, resulting in a new look? (i.e. conversion to B&W, replacing some colors, adding a new element, etc)?

Karimala · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2012, 16:16 »

No. An exclusive image is just that...an image available exclusively at a single agency. You can't just crop it or color it black/white and call it a new image.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2012, 09:55 »

Quote from: Les on July 06, 2012, 16:08

Here is another tricky question about exclusive images.
Let's say you have a 4200x2800pixel image as an exclusive image with one agency.

1. Can you submit a small crop from that image (i.e. 1800x2500) to another agency?
Different composition because of cropping, perhaps even different orientation, but it originated from the same image. Would it qualify as a different image?

2. How about if you process the original image differently, resulting in a new look? (i.e. conversion to B&W, replacing some colors, adding a new element, etc)?

1. No, it isn´t a new picture (but I do see tons of people doing that with their best-sellers, guess agencies don´t care beside DT)
2. Yes it is a new picture, you have spent many time editing and such, again many contributors do that

Poncke · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2012, 10:08 »

Quote

Other channels include art galleries, retail outlets, online shops, similar agencies etc because they are intermediaries facilitating the sale and they retain a commission from these sales.

That sounds like selling through your own website is ok, since you dont take a commission.

djpadavona · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2012, 07:47 »

You DO take a commission, it just happens to be 100%

Poncke · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2012, 08:48 »

Quote from: djpadavona on July 08, 2012, 07:47

You DO take a commission, it just happens to be 100%

No, you do NOT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_(remuneration)

djpadavona · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2012, 10:04 »

If you think Dreamstime or iStockphoto is going to allow you to sell RF photos from your own website after you signed an exclusivity agreement with them, you are in for quite a surprise. iStock allows you to sell separate photos as RM elsewhere, but that is as far as you are allowed to roam. But you are free to try if you disagree.

Poncke · « **Reply #15 on:** July 08, 2012, 10:07 »

Quote from: djpadavona on July 08, 2012, 10:04

If you think Dreamstime or iStockphoto is going to allow you to sell RF photos from your own website after you signed an exclusivity agreement with them, you are in for quite a surprise. iStock allows you to sell separate photos as RM elsewhere, but that is as far as you are allowed to roam. But you are free to try if you disagree.

That not what I am saying. I was asking a question, but you said selling from your own website was taking a 100% commission, and thats what I disagreed with. If you say you cant sell from your own website, than I believe that.

Karimala · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2012, 11:21 »

Quote from: Poncke on July 08, 2012, 10:07

Quote from: djpadavona on July 08, 2012, 10:04
If you think Dreamstime or iStockphoto is going to allow you to sell RF photos from your own website after you signed an exclusivity agreement with them, you are in for quite a surprise. iStock allows you to sell separate photos as RM elsewhere, but that is as far as you are allowed to roam. But you are free to try if you disagree.

That not what I am saying. I was asking a question, but you said selling from your own website was taking a 100% commission, and that's what I disagreed with. If you say you cant sell from your own website, than I believe that.

It's true that IS exclusives cannot sell licenses for their RF work from their own websites, but according to Tangie at Dreamstime, DT DOES allow artists to sell licenses from their own website (see http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_30273).

Quote

An exclusive image can be sold from your own personal website or directly to end-users. You cannot sell this image via any agency or intermediary of any sort, shops and galleries included. [link=http://www.dreamstime.com/terms#contributors]Site Terms[/link]Exclusive images may only be sold through Dreamstime.com and may not be offered through other channels.Other channels include art galleries, retail outlets, online shops, similar agencies etc because they are intermediaries facilitating the sale and they retain a commission from these sales.

Les · « **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2012, 18:06 »

Quote from: Les on July 04, 2012, 17:20

If I have an exclusive image i.e. with DT or RM on Alamy, may I sell the same image as print on my own website or another site, such as FAA or Zenfolio?

Here is the official reply from DT:

Thank you for contacting us.
You can sell the same image from your own site in both print and electronic format. You cannot sell prints on demand using platforms that act as intermediaries and retain commissions from your same. Dreamstime can be the only agent for your files.