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Author Topic: Global search for non-Symbiostock independents  (Read 5936 times)

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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2015, 13:24 »
0
Of course i am involved! I told this from beginning. Strange, but i think you did not get all. Our company developed bridges, this is not on the side of Steve. He is doing his side. That is. Normal cooperation. Somebody is interested, somebody not - and this is with all projects.


« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2015, 16:48 »
+5
I'm curious who you are too. FYI for those of you looking on, (particularly those of you with symbio sites) this project has nothing to do with Leo's vision of Symbiostock. Leo is not involved and doesn't know anything about it. Cascoly's site did start out as a shoot off of Symbiostock but this new concept is entirely his along with apparently Skyfish. FWIW I really think you guys should use your own brand name for this one but I guess that is between you and Leo. Just my opinion but you could have at least given him the courtesy of asking before you started marketing a new venture under the Symbiostock name.

cascoly

  • Photography, travel & online games at cascoly.com

« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2015, 18:04 »
-2
I'm curious who you are too. FYI for those of you looking on, (particularly those of you with symbio sites) this project has nothing to do with Leo's vision of Symbiostock. Leo is not involved and doesn't know anything about it. Cascoly's site did start out as a shoot off of Symbiostock but this new concept is entirely his along with apparently Skyfish. FWIW I really think you guys should use your own brand name for this one but I guess that is between you and Leo. Just my opinion but you could have at least given him the courtesy of asking before you started marketing a new venture under the Symbiostock name.
first, remember that symbiostock is open source

this is just an extension of the existing search database to include non-symbiostock sites, so it doesn't affect what leo's developing.  at the same time, it continues to support and extend features  for all symbiostock sites.  leo has giving his blessing to my expanding my work with the search engine, hub & co-op sites, etc going as far as to allow me to sell licenses for the symbiostock pro & other extended plugins

i'll continue to answer questions about the service from those who are interested in using it

« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2015, 18:58 »
+3
Hi Steve, I get that it was supposed to be open source (didn't really turn out that way though did it) and I know Leo is grateful for all of your efforts. I'm just not seeing the connection here. It feels to me like this is something other than Symbiostock in that it really is targeting non symbio site owners. It also is involving new "partners" who Leo has never heard of, and who sound as though they are in the inner circle and speaking on behalf of Symbiostock itself. I believe this thread is quite misleading. Your enterprise here is commendable and somewhat along the lines of what Leo had in mind originally. Although I think he really would have preferred to have collaboration in the coding of the theme itself. All I am saying is that it would be better if people actually understood what you are proposing, who is responsible for it, and who in the end will be benefitting/profiting from it.

Maybe you can clear things up for me. Who is Skyfish? What is his/her contribution to this new endeavor and how is marketing other self hosted platforms for your personal search engine related to Symbiostock? I think the problem here is that Leo has sought to remove himself from this forum and is currently working hard on a new improved and polished version of Symbiostock. This trainwreck of a thread is doing that effort an injustice. Especially when insinuations of collusion are made indicating key developing people are benefitting from it. Since there really is only one developer, this hardly qualifies as open source, and the assumption is that Leo is somehow reaping a reward from this project is grossly misleading and massively unfair.

Lets just call this what it is... "Cascoly's search engine of self hosted microstock sites" and leave Symbiostock out of it.

cascoly

  • Photography, travel & online games at cascoly.com

« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2015, 19:37 »
-2
Hi Steve, I get that it was supposed to be open source (didn't really turn out that way though did it) and I know Leo is grateful for all of your efforts. I'm just not seeing the connection here. It feels to me like this is something other than Symbiostock in that it really is targeting non symbio site owners. It also is involving new "partners" who Leo has never heard of, and who sound as though they are in the inner circle and speaking on behalf of Symbiostock itself. I believe this thread is quite misleading. Your enterprise here is commendable and somewhat along the lines of what Leo had in mind originally. Although I think he really would have preferred to have collaboration in the coding of the theme itself. All I am saying is that it would be better if people actually understood what you are proposing, who is responsible for it, and who in the end will be benefitting/profiting from it.

Maybe you can clear things up for me. Who is Skyfish? What is his/her contribution to this new endeavor and how is marketing other self hosted platforms for your personal search engine related to Symbiostock? I think the problem here is that Leo has sought to remove himself from this forum and is currently working hard on a new improved and polished version of Symbiostock. This trainwreck of a thread is doing that effort an injustice. Especially when insinuations of collusion are made indicating key developing people are benefitting from it. Since there really is only one developer, this hardly qualifies as open source, and the assumption is that Leo is somehow reaping a reward from this project is grossly misleading and massively unfair.

Lets just call this what it is... "Cascoly's search engine of self hosted microstock sites" and leave Symbiostock out of it.

those conspiracy theories are from the same sad and disgruntled individual who has latched onto every symbiostock thread to beat a long dead horse - her accusations are tripe and should treated as such

the facts are simple:

the global search engine is spidered, by keyword, daily by google & other search engines - so each image seen in a search is counts as an external link to someone's site and an additional chance to be found.   site owners are welcome to use the formatting of the search results for their own use as contact sheets, galleries, etc as I've explained elsewhere. 

other independent site owners have contacted me to ask if they could somehow be included in the searches.  I didn't have the time to write the conversion routines needed.   Skyfish contacted me while I was traveling in Asia and offered to create a conversion app that would allow more independent artists to be represented in my global search of symbiostock sites. She's here on MSG and can provide further personal info if she wishes

 I  collect symbiostock datafiles automatically, (as can anyone else who's interested in using this data) so I have provided that service for free and continue to do so.  I have additional work to do to process non-sym sites, so there's a minimal cost involved.  I don't expect to break even in terms of time spent.

on one hand, it grows the global database of independent artists trying to find non-agency outlets for their work.  on the other, the vast majority of the sites are symbiostock sites, and my site still provides analysis and data that are relevant only to symbiostock sites.  when something better comes along, i'll gladly contribute....
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 19:43 by cascoly »

« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2015, 20:12 »
+10
I would have a hard time being part of this for a variety of reasons:
1) ads on the site, that's a nonstarter for me.  it does not look professional, are you licensing images or are you trying to get clicks on ads?
2) the license is not standard.  I looked at your license and it is terribly written, makes no sense, and was obviously written by you not a lawyer with any understanding of the law.  I would not want my content and my license confused with that 'license'.  A standard (and legal) license is necessary for this to be serious.
3) search results look horrible, site looks horrible.  looks like it is from the 90's, I'm waiting for the blinking pop ups and a virus

« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2015, 20:25 »
-2
 :)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 20:57 by cathyslife »

« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2015, 09:29 »
+1
Steve, I have a question/concern about linking non-SYS independent sites to the SYS global search network.

On SYS, we mark our images as "green" (safe for all to see), "yellow" (iffy), and "red" (not safe for all to see). How will you handle that if you include non-SYS sites in the new search?

It seems possible, with your new promotion, that X-rated images could show up in searches made from "green only" SYS-affiliated sites. That could cause problems if a search for (say) "red-breasted nuthatch" or "tufted titmouse" originated by a young bird lover at my site turned up images of something quite different.

Is there a way to screen the non-affiliated sites to make sure that doesn't happen? Or is it now "anything goes"?

« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2015, 10:38 »
+5
I thought this was an official thing from the creators of Symbiostock. It would have been good to say that it it isn't and that it is your own project maybe. Just so there is no confusion. I was just thinking how good it was Leo found a way to get a bit back for all his hard work, because I know he has put way more in so far than he has got out.

cascoly

  • Photography, travel & online games at cascoly.com

« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2015, 19:02 »
0
Steve, I have a question/concern about linking non-SYS independent sites to the SYS global search network.

On SYS, we mark our images as "green" (safe for all to see), "yellow" (iffy), and "red" (not safe for all to see). How will you handle that if you include non-SYS sites in the new search?

It seems possible, with your new promotion, that X-rated images could show up in searches made from "green only" SYS-affiliated sites. That could cause problems if a search for (say) "red-breasted nuthatch" or "tufted titmouse" originated by a young bird lover at my site turned up images of something quite different.

Is there a way to screen the non-affiliated sites to make sure that doesn't happen? Or is it now "anything goes"?
 

first, the rating system has always been optional -- there's no requirement for sys sites to rate their images at all, (though most do) .  otoh, I've had ZERO reports of any problems for the 2 years the global search has been running. We are asking non-sym sites to refrain from posting X-rated material, (what would be rating 3 in sym). but, again , it just hasnt been a problem to date; if it happens I'll deal with it.

basically the global search is no different than a google image search or microstock agency search where images from many sites are mixed together in results displayed.  I think users are smart enough to realize this. 

« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2015, 19:53 »
+2

basically the global search is no different than a google image search or microstock agency search where images from many sites are mixed together in results displayed.  I think users are smart enough to realize this.

I think you give people too much credit.

« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2015, 20:23 »
0

basically the global search is no different than a google image search or microstock agency search where images from many sites are mixed together in results displayed.  I think users are smart enough to realize this.

I think you give people too much credit.

So do I.

The difference, Steve, as I see it, is that under the original SYS-network system, any site owner can tick a button to ensure that images rated "red" do not show up in a search initiated from his or her site.

And yes, that does seem to work, probably because Symbio site owners with X-rated images have an incentive to be good team players and mark those images "red."

But if you take away the Symbio context and let anybody willing to pay $25 insert their images into our search results, you do change the dynamic.

I understand that if something awkward happens, you'll "deal with it," but that might well be after an embarrassing episode hits one of us.


« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2015, 23:24 »
+2

basically the global search is no different than a google image search or microstock agency search where images from many sites are mixed together in results displayed.  I think users are smart enough to realize this.

I think you give people too much credit.

So do I.

The difference, Steve, as I see it, is that under the original SYS-network system, any site owner can tick a button to ensure that images rated "red" do not show up in a search initiated from his or her site.

And yes, that does seem to work, probably because Symbio site owners with X-rated images have an incentive to be good team players and mark those images "red."

But if you take away the Symbio context and let anybody willing to pay $25 insert their images into our search results, you do change the dynamic.

I understand that if something awkward happens, you'll "deal with it," but that might well be after an embarrassing episode hits one of us.

Martha, I don't think Steves project will insert any search results into your individual page unless you have listed his search engine as one of your network partners (as many have done with AJT's .info search site. 

The way I understand it is his search engine, on its own page, searches Symbiostock sites.  He is expanding that to include outside independent sites that are not based on the Symbiostock context.  It should not have any impact on what visitors see on your page.

« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2015, 01:52 »
-1
     Now i will summarize some information related to Symbiostock Search for independants.
Here are 2 parts of the system.
Photographers which apply on cascoly.com will then be forwarded to us.
We provide data conversion and screening. With current state of the system we can give similar to agencies security level.
But some restrictions should be followed:
Photographers which apply should not have not G-rated content in galleries/folders which they want to include in Symbiostock searches.
Photographers with specific specialization should not apply, i think they have other outlets.
Photographers which have their sites flagged by Google etc should follow related to search engines procedures and apply after clean out.
We use different methods for verification and have no intention to share technological part. We will provide maximum efforts for protection of Symbiostock Search on cascoly.com. Our system is not a website and has already several cooperating blocks.
Photographers which want to participate should agree with SymbioStock Search on cascoly.com terms and conditions and in case if the agreement is broken after acceptance, all portfolio will be excluded from searches and no refund done.
There is a time of conversion and quarantine - about 1 week before images from site of photographer will appear in search results.
In cases when data conversion for photographer site needs special efforts we will agree the procedure with the photographer.
I will update FAQ on artnethouse.photodeck.com.
With growing of this cooperation we will do reasonable efforts for promotions for participants.

« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2015, 04:08 »
0
Martha, I don't think Steves project will insert any search results into your individual page unless you have listed his search engine as one of your network partners (as many have done with AJT's .info search site. 

The way I understand it is his search engine, on its own page, searches Symbiostock sites.  He is expanding that to include outside independent sites that are not based on the Symbiostock context.  It should not have any impact on what visitors see on your page.

Thanks, Karen, for that clear statement. Makes good sense.

Yes, I do have AJT's search engine as one of my network partners, but since Cascoly's search engine is not in that list, searchers on my site won't pull up the outside-the-network sites he's starting to index.

And that's fine with me. Again, I appreciate your clarification. It helps!

Semmick Photo

« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2015, 05:00 »
+3
I agree with Bunhill on the coding part, he knows his business, I dont see him being aggressive, he is giving some good advice. Listen to him.
I agree with Chromaco, I thought this was a Symbiostock feature, but its not
I agee wit Tickstock, the site looks horrible and nothing like Symbiostock at all. Its really outdated looking, presentation is everything. It has to be like love at first site when a buyer comes to the site. You are competing with top dogs, not with my 5 yr old nephew's blog.


My own comment, $70 dollar to be part of that seems very steep.At least you are cheaper then  PicturEngine, a failed project, which is the idea your are copying, but if you copy an idea, you have to do it better, not worse.

Just my honest opinion.

« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2015, 05:28 »
-3
First of all nobody copy. I first time hear about that project and googled to see that it is different.
Steve is dealing with his site and he will do necessary changes.
Also for those who wants to split searches or don't include other images in their pages - then it is just a feature request.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2015, 05:32 »
0
First of all nobody copy. I first time hear about that project and googled to see that it is different.
Steve is dealing with his site and he will do necessary changes.
Also for those who wants to split searches or don't include other images in their pages - then it is just a feature request.

Sure its different, still based on the same idea. Nothing wrong with that, just to a better job, not worse.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2015, 05:35 »
+3
To get my some features I wanted in Symbiostock I had to pay $75 dollar.
If I want to include myself to PicturEngine, I need to pay $450 dollar.
To get on Symbiostock Global Search I need to pay $70 dollar.

That means I have to pay $595 dollar just to partake in unproven projects and get my images in front of imaginary buyers.

 :o

I thought these projects were created to make me money, not to cost me. All of a sudden, selling through micros seems more attractive now.

cascoly

  • Photography, travel & online games at cascoly.com

« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2015, 13:46 »
0
  Martha, I don't think Steves project will insert any search results into your individual page unless you have listed his search engine as one of your network partners (as many have done with AJT's .info search site. 

The way I understand it is his search engine, on its own page, searches Symbiostock sites.  He is expanding that to include outside independent sites that are not based on the Symbiostock context.  It should not have any impact on what visitors see on your page.

correct - you'll never see non-sym images on any symbiostock page

actually, listing my search site page as one of your network sites won't do anything, as symbiostock can't access it directly.    instead people who list my symbiostock site http://cascoly-images/pix as a part of their network get additional prominence and features in the global network analysis pages

to see who links to whom -- http://cascoly.com/symbio/list.asp?list=61

Shelma1

« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2015, 13:52 »
0
The link doesn't work. After waiting 30 seconds I gave up.

cascoly

  • Photography, travel & online games at cascoly.com

« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2015, 13:53 »
0
-- sorry - dbl post


 

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