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Author Topic: 5 yr conttributor: just sharing some experience  (Read 14644 times)

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« on: October 12, 2011, 15:00 »
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I started contributing in 2006 and wanted to share a disappointing experience. Not to spread any negative publicity about shutterstock but to make my opinion known. earlier this year I had a 4000 strong portfolio, mostly photos and illustrations. Shutterstock one day removed 1500 files from it due to 'non creative content'. This was because they thought images rendered using the filterforge plugin did not represent any creative content. I was disappointed but somewhat agreed with them because many contributors were using filterforge to create massive amount of similar renderings.
 In a following submission I included two more filter forge files as I thought they were somewhat original and took some time to create. Apparently shutterstock  did not like it.

The following day I received an email notice that my account has been suspended and I need to contact shutterstock. Well i tried to contact them. By email...no reply. via the site..no reply. via fax..no reply. via US mail..no reply
This was the part that really dsiappointed me as unprofessional conduct. if you need to close an account of a contributor that's fine. but not replying to communication that is just purely unprofessional. For example, I needed a confirmation that my account is permanently closed and I can make my photos exclusive on another site. Well...no way to get any communication from shutterstock. That was followed by account closure in BS which is now owned by shuttertock.

My communication did not dispute the action to close my account, the terms clearly state they can choose to do that at any time. The terms interestingly also state they can keep any accrued royalties, which I had about $500 worth. Well, now I will owe taxes on money that shuttesrtock will keep. That's not that big of a deal but the real disappointing part was the lack of communication. Any account closure anywhere (bank, investment, etc) is always done in writing. Any formal action against a contributor should also be done in writing. not at shutterstock...what a disappointing experience. thanks shutterstock!


« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 15:46 »
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Try calling them.
1-866-663-3954

« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 15:57 »
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Try calling them.
1-866-663-3954

Pro, thanks for the suggestion. The phone number is not for contributors. it is for buyers only and they do not transfer calls, discuss contributor matters on take messages at that number. The first day i tried to call they said the website is the only way of contributor support. I've pretty much given up on that account, I just wish things would have happened in a different way.

« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 17:24 »
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"...The terms interestingly also state they can keep any accrued royalties, which I had about $500 worth. Well, now I will owe taxes on money that shuttesrtock will keep..."

I don't see how you can owe taxes on money which was not paid to you. I can't tell from your profile where you live, and I am not a tax attorney, but I think I can pretty much assure you that if you live in the US you do not have to pay taxes on microstock earnings which you never received.

« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 19:51 »
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"...The terms interestingly also state they can keep any accrued royalties, which I had about $500 worth. Well, now I will owe taxes on money that shuttesrtock will keep..."

I don't see how you can owe taxes on money which was not paid to you. I can't tell from your profile where you live, and I am not a tax attorney, but I think I can pretty much assure you that if you live in the US you do not have to pay taxes on microstock earnings which you never received.

As is the case all around the world.

Slovenian

« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 04:13 »
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"...The terms interestingly also state they can keep any accrued royalties, which I had about $500 worth. Well, now I will owe taxes on money that shuttesrtock will keep..."

I don't see how you can owe taxes on money which was not paid to you. I can't tell from your profile where you live, and I am not a tax attorney, but I think I can pretty much assure you that if you live in the US you do not have to pay taxes on microstock earnings which you never received.

As is the case all around the world.

Not true. In my country every company that send another a bill (to pay) automatically pays the 20% tax and it doesn't even matter if the other doesn't pay you. It's absurd, but that's how it is.

« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 07:10 »
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^^ I didn't understand what you are talking about exactly, but the very basic principle of tax is you pay taxes on what you PROFIT.
No profit=no tax.
If the tax was pre paid in advance by one mean or another you could get a tax return at the end of the month/year.

« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 07:14 »
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^^ I didn't understand what you are talking about exactly, but the very basic principle of tax is you pay taxes on what you PROFIT.
No profit=no tax.
If the tax was pre paid in advance by one mean or another you could get a tax return at the end of the month/year.

I suspect what Slovenian is talking about is VAT or sales tax (not income tax which is what matters in this case).

« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2011, 07:26 »
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If you get money from abroad, it is exempt from sales tax or VAT as far as I know.

Ed

« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2011, 07:53 »
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In the U.S., individuals are on a cash basis of accounting.  If you don't receive the cash, then you don't report it as income.  If Shutterstock sends you a 1099 and it does not tie to the cash you have received, then you need to dispute that 1099.  I don't know the tax laws abroad.

If your company is on an accrual basis of accounting, then you have the opportunity to write off bad debts and take them against income - again, not paying taxes on that money.

I'm sorry to hear that your account was shut down and I'm surprised that an account closure at Shutterstock also created an account closure at Bigstock.  That tells me that they aren't running them as two separate companies.  Interesting.

Slovenian

« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2011, 08:10 »
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^^ I didn't understand what you are talking about exactly, but the very basic principle of tax is you pay taxes on what you PROFIT.
No profit=no tax.
If the tax was pre paid in advance by one mean or another you could get a tax return at the end of the month/year.

I suspect what Slovenian is talking about is VAT or sales tax (not income tax which is what matters in this case).

Indeed, my mistake, since my comment wasn't (fully) relevant

Carl

  • Carl Stewart, CS Productions
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 10:28 »
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As much as I appreciate Shutterstock's business model, web site design, and the daily sales that I get there, it's frightening and disconcerting that they would take this kind of action with no communication and no recourse.

nruboc

« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2011, 10:58 »
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.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 11:02 by nruboc »

RacePhoto

« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2011, 11:32 »
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"In a following submission I included two more filter forge files as I thought they were somewhat original and took some time to create. Apparently shutterstock  did not like it."

Are you having a problem because they warned you and you got caught or because they don't answer fast enough and in writing?

I think their support needs to perk up a bit and start responding and being available to artists, especially in situations like these where an account has been closed for problems with breaking the rules. I'd also think that the files sold have nothing to do with the future submissions and they should pay out and close the accounts, if they feel the accounts must be closed. You earned it from legitimate files and sales.

As for the last question, NO you don't have to pay taxes on money that was never paid to you. Of course I'm assuming that SS and BS will file a W-2 or income report at the end of the year, even for a closed account?

Fine mess isn't it?

If you finally do get an answer, please come back. It's always difficult to read a case like this and then never have the conclusion.

How long ago did all of this happen, you don't say if it's been a day, month, week or what?

« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2011, 12:10 »
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Race, this happened about 2 months ago. No I don;t have anything against Shutterstock, they are running a business and doing what they can. I'm a little bitter about the lack of communication and professional conduct but that's something you see just about anywhere these days. if I ever get an update from them ( like a letter from my dead uncle...) i will post it. I am also curious to see what's going to be on my 1099s from Shutterstock and Bigstock. Of course if it is incorrect I probably won;t bother to try and contact them.

« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 00:43 »
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to me, only someone who is stealing other images to sell is serious enough to get banned. For most contributors, a suspension of few days in shutterstock is a loss enough to stop them. Most are there to earn a few bucks. Taking away all the remaining earnings isn't a good karma..

There are many ways to improve business but shutdown a contributor in this way just doesn't sound promising.

« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 09:52 »
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I can say that 6 months after Shutterstock stated they will reply I have not heard from them...My statement still stands, this behavior is unprofessional. No reply to email, no reply to fax, no reply to US mail in writing (!). Phone? Don't even think about it if you are a contributor. Any business I have ever dealt with has in internal process of replying to to written mail..that's just part of doing business. I can't imagine Shutterstock being a part of an association such as BB or any other that has standards for conduct. if they did, well Shutterstock does not seem to be adhering to these standards.


helix7

« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 10:22 »
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...Shutterstock one day removed 1500 files from it due to 'non creative content'. This was because they thought images rendered using the filterforge plugin did not represent any creative content. I was disappointed but somewhat agreed with them because many contributors were using filterforge to create massive amount of similar renderings.

In a following submission I included two more filter forge files as I thought they were somewhat original and took some time to create. Apparently shutterstock  did not like it.

The following day I received an email notice that my account has been suspended...

So you had filter forge content removed, which I would think would be a clear message that such content is no longer acceptable. And then you immediately submit more filter forge content. Sorry, you're not getting any sympathy from me. Frankly I think you deserve what you got.

And I have doubts that you've even tried to call them. SS is pretty easy to get on the phone with, I've had no trouble talking with a rep, and I've had no trouble getting email responses either, usually within a day or two. I suspect that you haven't really given enough of an effort to get this resolved by phone, and your emails may be given a very low priority since you blatantly ignored the new policy about filter forge images and opted to just do whatever you wanted to do and upload more of them.

Your behavior was unprofessional, and a 6-month (or longer) time-out isn't unreasonable if you ask me. They gave you fair warning about the change in policy, you spit in their faces, and now you want them to respond faster to your requests to reassess your own poor behavior and violation of their rules? Come on.

velocicarpo

« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2011, 10:45 »
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...Shutterstock one day removed 1500 files from it due to 'non creative content'. This was because they thought images rendered using the filterforge plugin did not represent any creative content. I was disappointed but somewhat agreed with them because many contributors were using filterforge to create massive amount of similar renderings.

In a following submission I included two more filter forge files as I thought they were somewhat original and took some time to create. Apparently shutterstock  did not like it.

The following day I received an email notice that my account has been suspended...

So you had filter forge content removed, which I would think would be a clear message that such content is no longer acceptable. And then you immediately submit more filter forge content. Sorry, you're not getting any sympathy from me. Frankly I think you deserve what you got.

And I have doubts that you've even tried to call them. SS is pretty easy to get on the phone with, I've had no trouble talking with a rep, and I've had no trouble getting email responses either, usually within a day or two. I suspect that you haven't really given enough of an effort to get this resolved by phone, and your emails may be given a very low priority since you blatantly ignored the new policy about filter forge images and opted to just do whatever you wanted to do and upload more of them.

Your behavior was unprofessional, and a 6-month (or longer) time-out isn't unreasonable if you ask me. They gave you fair warning about the change in policy, you spit in their faces, and now you want them to respond faster to your requests to reassess your own poor behavior and violation of their rules? Come on.

The contributors behaviour was unprofessional? This type of response is surely based on emotional rejection of truth. Random account closure and hiding a valid Phone number for Contributors is unprofessional. Beyond that, SS`s  rules are very random and unclear....like: "
if you use this Filter we close your account and destroy a large part of your income without even talking to you, and if you use that filter, everything is ok, but we won`t tell you before..."

SS is unprofessional. Not the Contribotur who DID NOT VIOLATE ANY TERMS. Period.

helix7

« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2011, 10:56 »
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SS is unprofessional. Not the Contribotur who DID NOT VIOLATE ANY TERMS. Period.

SS has always stated that the artist must be the creator of everything in their images. Using filter forge was always sort of a gray area.

Even if it was allowed, they changed the policy and gave everyone that used filter forge fair warning. The OP decided to continue uploading filter forge-generated images AFTER the policy change. I'd say that's a clear violation of terms.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2011, 11:26 »
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SS is unprofessional. Not the Contribotur who DID NOT VIOLATE ANY TERMS. Period.


SS has always stated that the artist must be the creator of everything in their images. Using filter forge was always sort of a gray area.

Even if it was allowed, they changed the policy and gave everyone that used filter forge fair warning. The OP decided to continue uploading filter forge-generated images AFTER the policy change. I'd say that's a clear violation of terms.


The FilterForge (I had to look it up: always something new to learn) FAQ says clearly, "You can use the Filter Library filters for commercial or non-commercial purposes as long as you don't violate the law or someone else's rights. "
http://www.filterforge.com/wiki/index.php/10q
I am saying nothing about this case, except that if it's true that SS has held onto outstanding money that is pretty bad.

« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2011, 11:52 »
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My apologies, I did not mean this to be a thread of bad mouthing shutterstock. I will send a note to the administrator to see if this thread can be deleted as it does not seem to produce much productive discussion.

« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2011, 11:56 »
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it is stated in the faq that shutterstock can take the remaining earnings and earnings from your bigstock too, if a contributors was put under suspension? and is suspension means a close down of account? or it is a suspension of months?

and in the faq it mentioned a contributors may need to put back status that need to resubmit 10 images as contributors again, but it is not what is happening..

velocicarpo

« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2011, 14:09 »
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SS is unprofessional. Not the Contribotur who DID NOT VIOLATE ANY TERMS. Period.

SS has always stated that the artist must be the creator of everything in their images. Using filter forge was always sort of a gray area.

Even if it was allowed, they changed the policy and gave everyone that used filter forge fair warning. The OP decided to continue uploading filter forge-generated images AFTER the policy change. I'd say that's a clear violation of terms.

Wrong. Read their terms. Artists are allowed to use 3rd party tools when the license of the 3rd party allows it. The named company explicitly allowes the use of their filters in stock. Read and think before you write.

Here are the lines from the Shutterstock agreement:
"e.  if the Submitted Content consists in whole or in part of design elements, fonts, clipart, sprites, vectors, brush tools and the like that are included in design programs (e.g., Photoshop, Daz, Illustrator) by uploading such Submitted Content to Shutterstock, you warrant and represent that the end user license agreement, terms of service or the equivalent license held by you does allow you to incorporate such elements in Submitted Content created by you, and to license such Submitted Content to Shutterstock for the purposes set forth herein;"
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 14:11 by velocicarpo »

helix7

« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2011, 14:28 »
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Item 14 of those same terms states that "...Shutterstock reserves the right to modify these terms at any time and to notify you by an announcement on your login page of the modifications. You agree to be bound by all such changes."

They changed a policy, icholakov was notified, the change was ignored, hence the suspension. More than justified and well within the rights of SS to do so.

Do you seriously believe that ignoring a change in policy and continuing to upload content that you've been told not to upload is ok?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 14:32 by helix7 »

velocicarpo

« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2011, 14:33 »
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Item 14 of those same terms states that "...Shutterstock reserves the right to modify these terms at any time and to notify you by an announcement on your login page of the modifications. You agree to be bound by all such changes."

They changed a policy, icholakov was notified, the change was ignored, hence the suspension. More than justified and well within the rights of SS to do so.

I cannot find the lines where icholakov writes about such a notification. Furthermore, I cannot see that this agreement had been modified since the text is still there. Those lines you quote concern general agreement changes they make noticable after login, which clearly did not happen.

Beyond that, I am greatly surprised how much the people on this board here try to devalue their own rights as a contributor just because they are fanboys of company XY or cannot admit errors. One of the reasons I do not participate largely anymore.

helix7

« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2011, 15:34 »
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I cannot find the lines where icholakov writes about such a notification. Furthermore, I cannot see that this agreement had been modified since the text is still there. Those lines you quote concern general agreement changes they make noticable after login, which clearly did not happen...

I would have figured that the policy change was pretty clear when they removed over a thousand images from icholakov's portfolio. The language in the Terms simply states that SS can amend their policies at any time, for any reason. And I think they were fair in their dealings regarding filter forge images. They just removed those images and left everything else online.

To me, if SS removed some of my images I wouldn't just re-upload new versions of the same images, no matter how much more creative I thought them to be. And I certainly wouldn't be surprised if SS was at all unhappy about me ignoring their change in policy and just doing whatever I pleased. But maybe that's just me.

...Beyond that, I am greatly surprised how much the people on this board here try to devalue their own rights as a contributor just because they are fanboys of company XY or cannot admit errors. One of the reasons I do not participate largely anymore.

Maybe your hostility and prejudices have something to do with your unpleasant experiences here. Not sure where you think I ever did any woo-yaying for SS, and I've never been quiet about my criticisms of the company. They have faults, no doubt about it, and I've openly discussed them here. But you'd obviously rather just assume that you know where I stand on those issues instead of actually reading anything about it, calling me a "fanboy" and all that. That's cool. Have at it.


velocicarpo

« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2011, 17:08 »
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I cannot find the lines where icholakov writes about such a notification. Furthermore, I cannot see that this agreement had been modified since the text is still there. Those lines you quote concern general agreement changes they make noticable after login, which clearly did not happen...

I would have figured that the policy change was pretty clear when they removed over a thousand images from icholakov's portfolio. The language in the Terms simply states that SS can amend their policies at any time, for any reason. And I think they were fair in their dealings regarding filter forge images. They just removed those images and left everything else online.

To me, if SS removed some of my images I wouldn't just re-upload new versions of the same images, no matter how much more creative I thought them to be. And I certainly wouldn't be surprised if SS was at all unhappy about me ignoring their change in policy and just doing whatever I pleased. But maybe that's just me.

...Beyond that, I am greatly surprised how much the people on this board here try to devalue their own rights as a contributor just because they are fanboys of company XY or cannot admit errors. One of the reasons I do not participate largely anymore.

Maybe your hostility and prejudices have something to do with your unpleasant experiences here. Not sure where you think I ever did any woo-yaying for SS, and I've never been quiet about my criticisms of the company. They have faults, no doubt about it, and I've openly discussed them here. But you'd obviously rather just assume that you know where I stand on those issues instead of actually reading anything about it, calling me a "fanboy" and all that. That's cool. Have at it.

Never mind, nothing personal...I usually value your comments here alot...

« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2011, 18:42 »
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Item 14 of those same terms states that "...Shutterstock reserves the right to modify these terms at any time and to notify you by an announcement on your login page of the modifications. You agree to be bound by all such changes."

Wow!  A contract between 2 parties where one side can move the goal posts at its discretion.  Suppose they decided to dilute the ownership of images on the site? 

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2011, 19:39 »
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Item 14 of those same terms states that "...Shutterstock reserves the right to modify these terms at any time and to notify you by an announcement on your login page of the modifications. You agree to be bound by all such changes."

Wow!  A contract between 2 parties where one side can move the goal posts at its discretion.  Suppose they decided to dilute the ownership of images on the site? 

What do they mean by 'you agree to be bound'? Presumably you can always remove your images?

« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2011, 00:47 »
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i guess things are just ironic, if there are an agency suspend one account and hold the funds without communications.. it just doesn't sound right.

We all are bound to the rules of every agencies, because we all have to agree with their terms that is subjected to change anytime, but hold the funds without any communications and update is not a fair way.

It is their company, they write the rules, they can decide what they want to do, but I just think it is not a fair and proper way.

Does it means all my earnings are gone? Does it means my account will resume? how many months are the suspension? Can i re-apply as contributors?

« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2011, 05:42 »
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What do they mean by 'you agree to be bound'? Presumably you can always remove your images?

I believe it means that the contributor agrees in advance to any changes that SS, at its absolute discretion, chooses to make to the contract and such changes are as binding as if in the original agreement.  They could (and I don't believe for 1 second they would) decide that a year's notice is required to remove images ...

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2011, 06:47 »
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What do they mean by 'you agree to be bound'? Presumably you can always remove your images?

I believe it means that the contributor agrees in advance to any changes that SS, at its absolute discretion, chooses to make to the contract and such changes are as binding as if in the original agreement.  They could (and I don't believe for 1 second they would) decide that a year's notice is required to remove images ...

So here is everyone praising SS to the rafters and they have such a ridiculous clause in their T&C, that you have to agree, unseen, in advance to any change they may make, including the above. Unlikely maybe, but who thought iStock was going to change they way they calculated their %age payouts to contributors. Bet 2 years ago most people wouldn't have believed it.
My acquired cynicism has led me to believe that if 'they' (='whoever') has that sort of clause, they will use it to their own benefit.
I've got nothing against SS, only know what I read here and hear from other people (seldom as rosy as reported here); but like any other company, they could be sold and their new owners might just love that clause.

velocicarpo

« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2011, 08:31 »
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i guess things are just ironic, if there are an agency suspend one account and hold the funds without communications.. it just doesn't sound right.

We all are bound to the rules of every agencies, because we all have to agree with their terms that is subjected to change anytime, but hold the funds without any communications and update is not a fair way.

It is their company, they write the rules, they can decide what they want to do, but I just think it is not a fair and proper way.

Does it means all my earnings are gone? Does it means my account will resume? how many months are the suspension? Can i re-apply as contributors?

I agree. They made an agreement, we agreed, they agreed, and it clearly states that the Contributors are allowed to do things like the OP. I mean, without doubt they have ALL rights to shape their agreement like they want, but as soon as all parties agree, it should be somehow reliable....and they did not modify the agreement...or is it just valid for some Contributors and others not?

I continue with my opinion that their behaviour is unprofessional in this case. Nothing to feel bad about. If a friend of yours makes a mistake we talk to him to...anything else would be ignorant.

helix7

« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2011, 08:55 »
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So here is everyone praising SS to the rafters and they have such a ridiculous clause in their T&C, that you have to agree, unseen, in advance to any change they may make, including the above. Unlikely maybe, but who thought iStock was going to change they way they calculated their %age payouts to contributors. Bet 2 years ago most people wouldn't have believed it.
My acquired cynicism has led me to believe that if 'they' (='whoever') has that sort of clause, they will use it to their own benefit...

Well that clause has been there for a long time and they haven't used it yet. At least not for nefarious purposes.

Most agencies have similar language in their terms, including istock, fotolia, dreamstime, etc. They all word it a little differently, but it's all the same. If you continue to do business with the company, you agree to any changes that have been made. If you disagree, you have to cease business with them. istock does give contributors a bit more notice of changes and the option to wait 20 days to decide if they agree. But in the end it's still the same outcome. Either you agree to the changes or that's the end of the road for you.

« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2011, 09:52 »
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All we need to see from SS is consistency...

I think as long as images of NASA and other public domain stuff is being offered there as RF, I can't see why the excessive use of a filter whose terms allow commercial usage is not ok. If a buyer likes it - money will be made - it's a win - win. No laws broken, no harm done.

I think that is the confusing part that there is no straight line.

Funny enough that images with the famous water ripple plugin kept get featured in their light boxes although it's not very "creative" to use those either or is it?

I have to admit that their behavior is somewhat selective.

I understand, it's still their sandbox and they can do whatever they want.

velocicarpo

« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2011, 10:09 »
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All we need to see from SS is consistency...

I think as long as images of NASA and other public domain stuff is being offered there as RF, I can't see why the excessive use of a filter whose terms allow commercial usage is not ok. If a buyer likes it - money will be made - it's a win - win. No laws broken, no harm done.

I think that is the confusing part that there is no straight line.

Funny enough that images with the famous water ripple plugin kept get featured in their light boxes although it's not very "creative" to use those either or is it?

I have to admit that their behavior is somewhat selective.

I understand, it's still their sandbox and they can do whatever they want.

Exactly. I totally agree.

Beyond that, why do they not simply delete / reject images created by software they don`t want? Why does a account has to be deleted if the Contributor did not violate the Terms? Wha do they have to keep the Money earned by the Contributor?


helix7

« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2011, 10:38 »
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Beyond that, why do they not simply delete / reject images created by software they don`t want? Why does a account has to be deleted if the Contributor did not violate the Terms?

They did delete the images from the OP's portfolio first. He then uploaded more, hence the suspension. You're spinning this like SS just went straight for the suspension without taking any other action first. That's simply not true.

I don't expect that we'll ever agree on whether SS was right or wrong in their actions here, but let's at least be factually accurate in the discussion.

« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2011, 10:39 »
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Beyond that, why do they not simply delete / reject images created by software they don`t want?
Resources. They simply don't have enough staff to go through the portfolios of hundreds of contributors to check every single image if an "illegal" or unwanted filter has been used.

They can change their terms but give the contributors a deadline to get their own portfolios up to the new standard, otherwise they could hand out warnings or something along those lines.

In any case it's always tough to make changes to a collection by banning certain content afterwards. IS for example constantly makes changes to what they accept no matter if approved content from 5 years ago is clearly violating their new terms. Those images though remain on sale. Doesn't make too much sense, does it?

Quote
Why does a account has to be deleted if the Contributor did not violate the Terms?
As said before, his portfolio got cleaned out by SS because of the use of a certain filter. Using that particular filter again is a death sentence. That's a no brainer - just don't do it. He was already on their watch list and he pushed it further. Instead of uploading the image the regular way, he could have contacted support first to have the content management team look at it independently and let him know whether this "improved" usage of the filter would be acceptable. Either way, he knew they don't like the filter (in his case!).

Quote
Wha do they have to keep the Money earned by the Contributor?
That might be written in their terms that they can do that. It's not about why, it's their terms, we signed them so it's "ok".

velocicarpo

« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2011, 11:21 »
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Beyond that, why do they not simply delete / reject images created by software they don`t want? Why does a account has to be deleted if the Contributor did not violate the Terms?

They did delete the images from the OP's portfolio first. He then uploaded more, hence the suspension. You're spinning this like SS just went straight for the suspension without taking any other action first. That's simply not true.

I don't expect that we'll ever agree on whether SS was right or wrong in their actions here, but let's at least be factually accurate in the discussion.

Ohhhh dear, I do not want to get into any discussion that leads to nowhere...however, i did not say they went straight to deletion. But I do say that an account deletion is unnecesary since no terms had been violated and no bad intention was included. At least they should communicate themselves...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 11:25 by velocicarpo »

« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2011, 12:08 »
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Even if we would all agree that icholakov did something wrong, and violated the rules, it is not necessary for Shutterstock to treat him without respect.  He is not a criminal, and even if he was he should be treated with respect by SS, which means :  answer his questions, in writing, by phone, anyway, but just answer the questions he sent 6 months ago. 

« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2011, 12:11 »
0
Even if we would all agree that icholakov did something wrong, and violated the rules, it is not necessary for Shutterstock to treat him without respect.  He is not a criminal, and even if he was he should be treated with respect by SS, which means :  answer his questions, in writing, by phone, anyway, but just answer the questions he sent 6 months ago. 

Exactly. I know we haven't heard both sides of the story but I am disappointed in what appears to be SS's actions in this case. Others have reported similar difficulties so a pattern is beginning to emerge.

« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2011, 13:09 »
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I think the agencies need to have some very clear rules - with some way of appealing - for any account closures and/or forfeit of money.  Even though I have never intentionally broken any of the rules at any of the sites, I find it deeply scary that should one be thought to have broken one, the agency would behave like some sort of totalitarian state.

I don't know the details of this specific dispute, but just as I wouldn't want to go back to the times that spawned such idioms as "you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb", I don't like the apparent stonewalling of contributors or extraordinary penalties for what seems like a relatively minor offense.

Remember when iStock went on a rampage to remove cars, guitars and cruise ships? It would be analagous, IMO, to upload a shot that included a car taillight in an auto shop image and find that your account had been closed because you'd uploaded another car shot after having all your isolated cars removed. When the rules change, it isn't always as clear to the contributors exactly what's on each side of the line. I think clarifying that the earlier removals meant no content from this filter ever, not even as part of a collage, no matter how complex or intricate would probably have solved the problem.

When you consider what it would mean to most of us to have our account closed arbitrarily, I think a clear and transparent account termination process is in all of our best interests

« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2011, 13:37 »
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Alamy for example even called me when they had some questions about my pictures, just for clarification purposes.

Communication is key.

With a phone call things could be cleared out immediately.

Also, even SS has a very small office compared to it's popularity as the largest subscription agency in the world. Everyone who works there, works hard 9-5. Additional requests from us to get an answer to this and that will result in messages getting lost/ignored instead of hiring more staff and possibly even cutting our commissions because of that...

« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2012, 09:19 »
0
Well, as much as I hate to see it, it happened:
My 1099 MISC for 2011 includes about $500 of earnings that occurred after my account was suspended and the earnings were "withheld" by shutterstock.
 I wish there was a way to dispute a 1099. No reply to any of my faxes yet, no reply to any of emails yet and no reply to any of my written requests yet, although they had "signature required".
Nice job, shutterstock.
---------------------------------




In the U.S., individuals are on a cash basis of accounting.  If you don't receive the cash, then you don't report it as income.  If Shutterstock sends you a 1099 and it does not tie to the cash you have received, then you need to dispute that 1099.  I don't know the tax laws abroad.

If your company is on an accrual basis of accounting, then you have the opportunity to write off bad debts and take them against income - again, not paying taxes on that money.

I'm sorry to hear that your account was shut down and I'm surprised that an account closure at Shutterstock also created an account closure at Bigstock.  That tells me that they aren't running them as two separate companies.  Interesting.

« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2012, 09:56 »
0
Well, as much as I hate to see it, it happened:
My 1099 MISC for 2011 includes about $500 of earnings that occurred after my account was suspended and the earnings were "withheld" by shutterstock.
 I wish there was a way to dispute a 1099. No reply to any of my faxes yet, no reply to any of emails yet and no reply to any of my written requests yet, although they had "signature required".
Nice job, shutterstock.
---------------------------------




In the U.S., individuals are on a cash basis of accounting.  If you don't receive the cash, then you don't report it as income.  If Shutterstock sends you a 1099 and it does not tie to the cash you have received, then you need to dispute that 1099.  I don't know the tax laws abroad.

If your company is on an accrual basis of accounting, then you have the opportunity to write off bad debts and take them against income - again, not paying taxes on that money.

I'm sorry to hear that your account was shut down and I'm surprised that an account closure at Shutterstock also created an account closure at Bigstock.  That tells me that they aren't running them as two separate companies.  Interesting.

Indefensible!

jbarber873

« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2012, 10:44 »
0
   You can dispute a 1099, just don't contact shutterstock, contact the IRS. They will send a form to SS asking to have the 1099 corrected or justified in it's present form. In the meantime ( the IRS wheels grind slowly), on your 2011 taxes, report the correct amount of income, and keep all your paypal ( or whatever method you used) records to prove the actual income you received. When you file a return, attach a statement describing the dispute and note that a revised 1099 was not received in time for you to file. The 1099s are matched up against your reported income on your tax form at the IRS. Also, this assumes you are above board with all your other aspects of your return. This will put you in the spotlight, depending on your tax status ( corporate or individual) so don't play games.


 

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