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Author Topic: Could it be using a shutterstock controlled revenue system?  (Read 20893 times)

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« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2018, 14:12 »
+1
So we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are gradually decreasing, we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are gradually increasing, we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are wildly inconsistent, and in the majority of previous posts on the subject... we have people saying that they use controlled revenue because their sales are extremely consistent.

Very compelling evidence.
I think the only evidence is that the more you upload the less you earn in ss and this has been happening since 2017. Almost every old contributor is experiencing this. This is fact.
No its not a fact its your opinion. How many "old contributors" have you polled? What figures are there to support this?


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« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 14:21 »
+2
So we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are gradually decreasing, we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are gradually increasing, we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are wildly inconsistent, and in the majority of previous posts on the subject... we have people saying that they use controlled revenue because their sales are extremely consistent.

Very compelling evidence.
I think the only evidence is that the more you upload the less you earn in ss and this has been happening since 2017. Almost every old contributor is experiencing this. This is fact.

So are you saying that if you stop uploading or start deleting clips... your sales will increase or stay the same? I'm assuming you're just saying that even by uploading new content you're still earning less? What's your annual percentage increase on content compared with SS as a whole though? Unless yours is higher, then it would make sense that sales would be decreasing. That's not controlling revenue, that's just an inevitable drop in sales due to increased competition.

« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2018, 15:45 »
0
Here is a hypothetical since we are not allowed to post actual numbers.

Contributor A makes approx 400 bucks every two weeks, plus or minus 20 bucks or so.

In the first week of the month, they make a large SOD for 100 bucks and their sub sales drop from 30-40 dollars a weekday to 5 bucks for the next 3 days. They know, demonstrably over the course of the last year, they will have low earnings for the next week until they make 400 at mid month.

That is what some of us are saying is happening. We don't know why this is the case, or how it could be some random happenstance that occurs every single month.

Agreed ~ I get that constantly and when you have 300 sales each month plus or minus 10 you know something stinks in the room

farbled

« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2018, 15:58 »
+2
Every time I had bigger sales, next day onwards sales have drastically declined. I believe, they are controlling our revenues.

What you are saying is that your next day sales are normal and, from time to time, you have a big sale (which is also part of the "normal").
 ;D
Kinda looks like they said the exact opposite to me.
I don't understand why so many seem so vehement that there is a random explanation for something that seems so consistent for some of us.

The explanation is not "random" at all. It is simple and logical.
A big sale = a spike.
A spike is a spike only when it stands out of the normal trend, being preceded and followed by normal and obviously lower sales.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a spike or a "big sale".

Well we both know you are being very literal about his post. In context with this thread, the poster is comparing their sales before the "big sale" with sales afterwards.


« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 16:28 »
0
Every time I had bigger sales, next day onwards sales have drastically declined. I believe, they are controlling our revenues.

What you are saying is that your next day sales are normal and, from time to time, you have a big sale (which is also part of the "normal").
 ;D
Kinda looks like they said the exact opposite to me.
I don't understand why so many seem so vehement that there is a random explanation for something that seems so consistent for some of us.

The explanation is not "random" at all. It is simple and logical.
A big sale = a spike.
A spike is a spike only when it stands out of the normal trend, being preceded and followed by normal and obviously lower sales.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a spike or a "big sale".

Well we both know you are being very literal about his post. In context with this thread, the poster is comparing their sales before the "big sale" with sales afterwards.

In my case it works the other way around: SS is monitoring my sales and when they fall below my usual quota, I get a massive sale to recover the lost ground. Loool!
Maybe this is why I just got a $167.70 clip sale a moment ago!  :P
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 16:31 by Zero Talent »

farbled

« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2018, 16:30 »
0
Every time I had bigger sales, next day onwards sales have drastically declined. I believe, they are controlling our revenues.

What you are saying is that your next day sales are normal and, from time to time, you have a big sale (which is also part of the "normal").
 ;D
Kinda looks like they said the exact opposite to me.
I don't understand why so many seem so vehement that there is a random explanation for something that seems so consistent for some of us.

The explanation is not "random" at all. It is simple and logical.
A big sale = a spike.
A spike is a spike only when it stands out of the normal trend, being preceded and followed by normal and obviously lower sales.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a spike or a "big sale".

Well we both know you are being very literal about his post. In context with this thread, the poster is comparing their sales before the "big sale" with sales afterwards.

In my case it works the other way around: SS is monitoring my sales and when they fall below my usual quota, I get a massive sale to recover the lost ground.
Maybe this is why I just got a $167.70 clip sale a moment ago!  :P

You know what's funny is mine also works the same way, if I am down from my average I almost always get a large SOD or two to hit that average month.

« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2018, 16:33 »
+1
Every time I had bigger sales, next day onwards sales have drastically declined. I believe, they are controlling our revenues.

What you are saying is that your next day sales are normal and, from time to time, you have a big sale (which is also part of the "normal").
 ;D
Kinda looks like they said the exact opposite to me.
I don't understand why so many seem so vehement that there is a random explanation for something that seems so consistent for some of us.

The explanation is not "random" at all. It is simple and logical.
A big sale = a spike.
A spike is a spike only when it stands out of the normal trend, being preceded and followed by normal and obviously lower sales.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a spike or a "big sale".

Well we both know you are being very literal about his post. In context with this thread, the poster is comparing their sales before the "big sale" with sales afterwards.

In my case it works the other way around: SS is monitoring my sales and when they fall below my usual quota, I get a massive sale to recover the lost ground.
Maybe this is why I just got a $167.70 clip sale a moment ago!  :P

You know what's funny is mine also works the same way, if I am down from my average I almost always get a large SOD or two to hit that average month.

So SS is not the bad guy reducing your income, but the good guy, helping you to get back on track!  :o

Major difference.... but the same baseless conspiracy theory!  ;D

farbled

« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 16:38 »
0


So SS is not the bad guy reducing your income, but the good guy, helping you to get back on track!

Major difference.... but the same baseless conspiracy theory!

Not exactly what I said and you are cherry picking my words. It goes both ways, hence the word "static" income. And I never said SS was the bad guy. But whatever works for your narrative. I don't need to convince you or anyone else.

Same baseless assumptions because it hasn't happened to you (yet). :)

namussi

« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 22:38 »
0
Every time I had bigger sales, next day onwards sales have drastically declined. I believe, they are controlling our revenues.

What you are saying is that your next day sales are normal and, from time to time, you have a big sale (which is also part of the "normal").
 ;D

Kinda looks like they said the exact opposite to me.
I don't understand why so many seem so vehement that there is a random explanation for something that seems so consistent for some of us.

"Obvious", but no-one ever publishes stats that can be analysed, and the people who say it's obvious don't seem to have any mathematical training.

So until people do start doing that, it's sensible to assume that the phenomenon is the same as phenomena observed many many times in other contexts.

Occam's razor and all that.

« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2018, 00:39 »
0
Every time I had bigger sales, next day onwards sales have drastically declined. I believe, they are controlling our revenues.

What you are saying is that your next day sales are normal and, from time to time, you have a big sale (which is also part of the "normal").
 ;D

Kinda looks like they said the exact opposite to me.
I don't understand why so many seem so vehement that there is a random explanation for something that seems so consistent for some of us.

"Obvious", but no-one ever publishes stats that can be analysed, and the people who say it's obvious don't seem to have any mathematical training.

So until people do start doing that, it's sensible to assume that the phenomenon is the same as phenomena observed many many times in other contexts.

Occam's razor and all that.
To be fair its against SS's Ts and Cs......so in the end we will never know for sure....so this debate will keep repeating. In the end its academic as I don't see anything illegal in it.

« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2018, 00:45 »
0
Every time I had bigger sales, next day onwards sales have drastically declined. I believe, they are controlling our revenues.

What you are saying is that your next day sales are normal and, from time to time, you have a big sale (which is also part of the "normal").
 ;D
Kinda looks like they said the exact opposite to me.
I don't understand why so many seem so vehement that there is a random explanation for something that seems so consistent for some of us.

The explanation is not "random" at all. It is simple and logical.
A big sale = a spike.
A spike is a spike only when it stands out of the normal trend, being preceded and followed by normal and obviously lower sales.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a spike or a "big sale".

Well we both know you are being very literal about his post. In context with this thread, the poster is comparing their sales before the "big sale" with sales afterwards.

In my case it works the other way around: SS is monitoring my sales and when they fall below my usual quota, I get a massive sale to recover the lost ground.
Maybe this is why I just got a $167.70 clip sale a moment ago!  :P

You know what's funny is mine also works the same way, if I am down from my average I almost always get a large SOD or two to hit that average month.

So SS is not the bad guy reducing your income, but the good guy, helping you to get back on track!  :o

Major difference.... but the same baseless conspiracy theory!  ;D
As I understand it the big ticket items are often found by SS staff for big account holders much easier to manipulate that that playing with a super complex algorithm and hiding contributors from buyers and risking losing them because they can't find content.

« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2018, 05:24 »
0
Alright, let me explain it for you. I have a portfolio of more than 4000 images, average sales are between 10 - 15 per day. So, whenever I had a large SOD or an EL or a high number of subs in a single day, next day onwards my sales have gone down to 2 or 3 subs per day and it stays like that for few days before coming to normal. This has happened each and every time. So, I don't this can be a coincidence.

namussi

« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2018, 06:20 »
0
Alright, let me explain it for you. I have a portfolio of more than 4000 images, average sales are between 10 - 15 per day. So, whenever I had a large SOD or an EL or a high number of subs in a single day, next day onwards my sales have gone down to 2 or 3 subs per day and it stays like that for few days before coming to normal. This has happened each and every time. So, I don't this can be a coincidence.

How often do you get days with two or three subs altogether?

And again, what is a "high" number of subs? >20, >30>>50?


« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2018, 06:28 »
0
Alright, let me explain it for you. I have a portfolio of more than 4000 images, average sales are between 10 - 15 per day. So, whenever I had a large SOD or an EL or a high number of subs in a single day, next day onwards my sales have gone down to 2 or 3 subs per day and it stays like that for few days before coming to normal. This has happened each and every time. So, I don't this can be a coincidence.
A drop in an ocean. Who cares about 2-3 subs a day? This is just regular day to day variation.

Is Shutterstock controlling the cars on your commute route as well? Because there are days with traffic jams followed by days with fluent traffic.

Anyway 2-3 subs are not even enough to compensate a large SOD nor an EL, therefore your "theory" is flawed by definition.

Btw, I get many times more downloads than you, with many times fewer files. I have larger daily swings than 2-3 dls and that's just normal.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:33 by Zero Talent »

angelawaye

  • Eat, Sleep, Keyword. Repeat

« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2018, 09:23 »
+1
I haven't uploaded anything this year and every month it is around the same number for earnings. No more, not less. I'm too lazy to post a fancy graph. Not sure what conclusions you want to draw but for 5 months it is almost the exact same earnings per month with no new uploads.

There is just no incentive to upload new work because there is no opportunity to get "more of the pie" at this moment.

I don't really know where else to go with all my new work. I'm just kind of hoping a new kind of "stocksy" opens up. (Wishful thinking, this I know.)

« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2018, 09:25 »
+2
When the amount of content outweighs the amount you can produce on a regular basis, you will hit a wall. The crowd-sourced business model only benefits the company, not the individual.  It's fun while it lasts, for the individual... but don't bet on retiring from it that way.

niktol

« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2018, 09:46 »
0
I haven't uploaded anything this year and every month it is around the same number for earnings. No more, not less. I'm too lazy to post a fancy graph. Not sure what conclusions you want to draw but for 5 months it is almost the exact same earnings per month with no new uploads.


That kind of data would be a stronger evidence in favor of an income cap than "I observe day-to-day fluctuations in sales and when presented as binary data and translated into ASCII they say "we cap your income, serf"". However, when I stop uploading I see faster declines in SS income fairly quickly.


farbled

« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2018, 11:13 »
0
I haven't uploaded anything this year and every month it is around the same number for earnings. No more, not less. I'm too lazy to post a fancy graph. Not sure what conclusions you want to draw but for 5 months it is almost the exact same earnings per month with no new uploads.

There is just no incentive to upload new work because there is no opportunity to get "more of the pie" at this moment.

I don't really know where else to go with all my new work. I'm just kind of hoping a new kind of "stocksy" opens up. (Wishful thinking, this I know.)

Absolutely the same, but over almost a year for me.

« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2018, 15:36 »
+1
Hello
Could it be using a Shutterstock controlled revenue system?
I have asked this question before
In short, you can specify your thoughts.


You don't have to be insider to prove that, there are patterns and behaviours and based on them you have very high probability that search engine is controlled to achieve certain goals that are absolutely not in interest of established contributors. 
In short yes they are doing that for sure, initial software implementation in production environment was in september 2016 with a a few minor changes later.
As a Shutterstock contributor and as an independent Business Intelignece Systems expert I tried to explain a few things in a couple of discussions like here:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/are-new-images-selling/

« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2018, 15:55 »
0
Hello
Could it be using a Shutterstock controlled revenue system?
I have asked this question before
In short, you can specify your thoughts.


You don't have to be insider to prove that, there are patterns and behaviours and based on them you have very high probability that search engine is controlled to achieve certain goals that are absolutely not in interest of established contributors. 
In short yes they are doing that for sure, initial software implementation in production environment was in september 2016 with a a few minor changes later.
As a Shutterstock contributor and as an independent Business Intelignece Systems expert I tried to explain a few things in a couple of discussions like here:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/are-new-images-selling/


Also here:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/please-tell-me-this-makes-sense!/

and here:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/june-algorithm-change/


« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2018, 16:12 »
+1
it is important for new users to have sales so they remain committed to contributing in the long run.

How noble!

But I'm afraid it's going like this:

"How can we reduce costs?"
"By favouring new users?"
"Approved!"

« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2018, 16:16 »
+2
Could it be using a Shutterstock controlled revenue system?

The short answer is that it's possible, but it's highly unlikely. Nobody has yet produced any compelling evidence to support the theory.

For compelling evidence you need FBI but for some of us which are experts in that kind of software, patterns, behaviours and high probability is just enough for the right conclusion.

« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2018, 16:25 »
0
Here is a hypothetical since we are not allowed to post actual numbers.

Contributor A makes approx 400 bucks every two weeks, plus or minus 20 bucks or so.

In the first week of the month, they make a large SOD for 100 bucks and their sub sales drop from 30-40 dollars a weekday to 5 bucks for the next 3 days. They know, demonstrably over the course of the last year, they will have low earnings for the next week until they make 400 at mid month.

That is what some of us are saying is happening. We don't know why this is the case, or how it could be some random happenstance that occurs every single month.

That pretty much nailed it. Also, and I'm just throwing this out there ... inconsistent revenue, net income and operating expense makes shareholders very nervous. Especially new investors. If you're worried about not making image sales, buy some SSTK instead! lol.

« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2018, 16:32 »
0
As I understand it the big ticket items are often found by SS staff for big account holders much easier to manipulate that that playing with a super complex algorithm and hiding contributors from buyers and risking losing them because they can't find content.

Meh, not really ... it honestly could just be as easy as a backend sort of ranking system giving contributors a number between say ... 0-10. They start earning more than they're supposed to you just knock their rank down a bit, less than they should then bump them up a bit. It's silly to assume that they wouldn't control it.

It's also silly to assume that they would control it on an individual basis, I'd imagine that if they are manipulating it then it's pretty automated.

« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2018, 16:53 »
0
So we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are gradually decreasing, we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are gradually increasing, we've got one person saying they use controlled revenue because their sales are wildly inconsistent, and in the majority of previous posts on the subject... we have people saying that they use controlled revenue because their sales are extremely consistent.

Very compelling evidence.

Exactly and unfortunately all of them as a hundred other behaviours have very logical explanation in specific conditions.
1) Sales are gradually decreasing for the same amount of work per year (not per month because of market fluctuations) 99% of established contributors will confirm you that
2) Off course in a long term MUCH more work/images per month will result in gradually increasing sales
3) Sales are extremely consistent (with slightly noticable decrease) for contributors that sells hundreds/thousands of images per month for 30+ cents
4) Sales are starting to be extremely inconsistent when when you get a buyer for (unexpected) high value licences. After that you will wait a lot for a new sales from different buyers because engine is trying to make your sales consistent on monthly/yearly basis.

I think I covered everything you said.

Good photographs are usually good in visual recognition but only few of them are also good in abstract recognition.


 

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