Author Topic: Failure Was the Key to My Success - Jon Oringer (Read 30496 times)

60D · « **on:** April 08, 2015, 06:24 »

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140627173707-3569651-columbia-university-2014-engineering-seas-class-day-commencement-speech-jon-oringer

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2015, 06:52 »

So in an article about one of the biggest successes in stock photography they post a distorted image of the man ! Jaysus, lol.

Boy o boy.

Anyhoo, I failed in a lot of things, but I am still no millionaire/billionaire

Shelma1 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2015, 09:57 »

That was exactly the article I was looking for a few weeks ago, when I paraphrased this quote from Oringer in another thread:

"I never imagined that Shutterstock would provide people in emerging economies with the opportunity to earn a decent living."

shudderstok · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2015, 12:03 »

the key to his success was to cripple the pricing of imagery and sell images for next to nothing and use the masses to make him rich with a complete disregard for the industry and the suppliers. otherwise known as greed.

gbalex · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2015, 12:30 »

Quote from: Jon Oringer

"I never imagined that Shutterstock would provide people in emerging economies with the opportunity to earn a decent living."

Jon conveniently fails to mention that his business was built using assets that were funded and produced by contributor stakeholders living in developed countries. And he does not mention that the success of his company depends on the labor & financial investments which contributors made to assure their own long term financial success.

Jon also fails to mention that he made conscious business decisions to reward the thousands of contributor stakeholders who's investments made it possible for him to create his own wealth and success; with destructive industry moves that continue to devalue the very assets shutterstock relies on to fund and build it's continued success.

By deliberately choosing to lead the race to the bottom with the objective of gaining market share; Jon consciously made industry moves that have made microstock an unsustainable source of income for the very stakeholders who made his financial success, the success of shutterstock and finally a SSTK IPO possible.

Jon escalated the race to the bottom by choosing to sell contributor assets on the open market via an IPO. This business decision made Jon and his new found Wallstreet friends Billionaires and Millionaires, however it is leaving the microstock business and the value of contributor assets in shambles.

Congratulations Shutterstock, onward to make your business model unsustainable for contributors in successive emerging economies.

ultimagina · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2015, 15:08 »

Quote from: shudderstok on April 08, 2015, 12:03

the key to his success was to cripple the pricing of imagery and sell images for next to nothing and use the masses to make him rich with a complete disregard for the industry and the suppliers. otherwise known as greed.

Everybody is a photographer these days.
The price of the imagery is crippled by the abundance of images. The same thing happens with any other product when the offer exceeds the demand.
The rest is just business.

stockastic · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2015, 15:22 »

Quote from: shudderstok on April 08, 2015, 12:03

the key to his success was to cripple the pricing of imagery and sell images for next to nothing and use the masses to make him rich with a complete disregard for the industry and the suppliers. otherwise known as greed.

So, he's correct. OUR failure was the key to HIS success.

loop · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2015, 17:51 »

Shutterstock came after istock, where I think (I'm not sure) he was a contributor. But Jon's real success has been convincing thousand of artists to sell their works for just some cents. He has been brilliant doing that. Selling is easy if you can offer a mini-price and earn money in the process.

Tror · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2015, 18:14 »

I was there 2004, when things started. Jon Oringer just was lucky to be at the right place at the right time. That has nothing to do with him being a genius or whatever. Surely he is a good business man, but most of these success stories, like SS - are just that: be at the right time at the right place. You could see most pages coming a afterwards failing more and more up to Luckyoliver (which was a great site and a good team and they failed). Every page after istock, SS, had less attention and impact.

Personally, I continue with very mixed feelings towards SS. If Bruce had`nt sold istock the landscape today would be a very different one - to the better I assume.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2015, 18:50 »

i would take the picture of Jon Oringer, superimpose it with Richard Nixon saying READ MY LIPS...
and then put it in a language everyone understands whether you are german, english, japanese, hindi, chinese, italian.......

like um, i never thought i could get rich like this ... um, just to think that so many photographers out there would be happy earning pennies instead of panhandling

PixelBytes · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2015, 23:20 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on April 08, 2015, 18:50

i would take the picture of Jon Oringer, superimpose it with Richard Nixon saying READ MY LIPS...
and then put it in a language everyone understands whether you are german, english, japanese, hindi, chinese, italian.......

like um, i never thought i could get rich like this ... um, just to think that so many photographers out there would be happy earning pennies instead of panhandling

I think it was George Bush Sr. That said read my lips. Nixon was I am not a crook!

Hobostocker · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2015, 00:45 »

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 08, 2015, 15:08

Everybody is a photographer these days.
The price of the imagery is crippled by the abundance of images. The same thing happens with any other product when the offer exceeds the demand.
The rest is just business.

that's true only for quantity but for anything else the world is being flooded by an ocean of unkeyworded and uncaptioned and unedited photos that are 100% worthless so there's no reason for us to worry too much not to mention half of them are selfies and people shooting their dog and their girlfriend.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2015, 00:49 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on April 08, 2015, 09:57

"I never imagined that Shutterstock would provide people in emerging economies with the opportunity to earn a decent living."

hahaha it sounds like an admission that ONLY in the third world a contributor could ever survive with his shutterstock's earnings.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2015, 01:02 »

Quote from: Tror on April 08, 2015, 18:14

I was there 2004, when things started. Jon Oringer just was lucky to be at the right place at the right time. That has nothing to do with him being a genius or whatever.

at the time the ONLY factor that made SS stand out from the crowd were the SUBS.

Subs have been popular in the news wire industry since forever so Oringer has pretty much nothing to claim he invented himself ...

ferdinand · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2015, 02:55 »

Failure is my middle name

ultimagina · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2015, 06:30 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on April 09, 2015, 00:45

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 08, 2015, 15:08
Everybody is a photographer these days.
The price of the imagery is crippled by the abundance of images. The same thing happens with any other product when the offer exceeds the demand.
The rest is just business.

that's true only for quantity but for anything else the world is being flooded by an ocean of unkeyworded and uncaptioned and unedited photos that are 100% worthless so there's no reason for us to worry too much not to mention half of them are selfies and people shooting their dog and their girlfriend.

No, I'm not talking about selfies. "Photography" is nowadays the most popular last name on FB. A lot of members of this family are ready to work for free in exchange for "fame".

Look at the evergrowing number of contributors and photos offered by the agencies.
This is what drives the price of all photos down.

dingles · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2015, 09:50 »

This is happening in every industry. Everything has been devalued, the minute companies found out they can have things built for cheaper in third world countries and still charge the same if not more, they all jumped aboard, and those who resisted at first didn't have much of a choice later as they needed to stay competitive. Things are bleak now, but those third world countries now seem to have money coming in that was never there before and even their rates are going up...eventually the cheap labor will no longer be in the third world countries...you cannot blame just one person, it started out as greed and became a race to stay competitive. Now is a time that creativity is more important than knowledge of the tools.

The bubble will burst....just a matter of when.

stockastic · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2015, 10:24 »

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 06:30

Quote from: Hobostocker on April 09, 2015, 00:45
Quote from: ultimagaina on April 08, 2015, 15:08
Everybody is a photographer these days.
The price of the imagery is crippled by the abundance of images. The same thing happens with any other product when the offer exceeds the demand.
The rest is just business.

that's true only for quantity but for anything else the world is being flooded by an ocean of unkeyworded and uncaptioned and unedited photos that are 100% worthless so there's no reason for us to worry too much not to mention half of them are selfies and people shooting their dog and their girlfriend.

No, I'm not talking about selfies. "Photography" is nowadays the most popular last name on FB. A lot of members of this family are ready to work for free in exchange for "fame".

Look at the evergrowing number of contributors and photos offered by the agencies.
This is what drives the price of all photos down.

Musical instruments have gotten cheaper too. Anyone can buy an electronic keyboard for a few dollars. This hasn't created a vast oversupply of capable musicians.

Yes there are too many people trying to sell too many photos, but a large part of what happened to stock was a middleman gaining control of a market and taking all the profit out of it for suppliers. In economics, the remedy for this is called disintermediation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disintermediation

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2015, 11:50 »

Quote from: dingles on April 09, 2015, 09:50

This is happening in every industry. Everything has been devalued, the minute companies found out they can have things built for cheaper in third world countries and still charge the same if not more, they all jumped aboard, and those who resisted at first didn't have much of a choice later as they needed to stay competitive. Things are bleak now, but those third world countries now seem to have money coming in that was never there before and even their rates are going up...eventually the cheap labor will no longer be in the third world countries...you cannot blame just one person, it started out as greed and became a race to stay competitive. Now is a time that creativity is more important than knowledge of the tools.

The bubble will burst....just a matter of when.

Well said!

ALL agencies are the same. Their leaders have the same goal as Jon, to become rich.
Everything else is just PR to make their filthy affairs look cool.

ultimagina · « **Reply #19 on:** April 09, 2015, 13:56 »

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 10:24

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 06:30
Quote from: Hobostocker on April 09, 2015, 00:45
Quote from: ultimagaina on April 08, 2015, 15:08
Everybody is a photographer these days.
The price of the imagery is crippled by the abundance of images. The same thing happens with any other product when the offer exceeds the demand.
The rest is just business.

that's true only for quantity but for anything else the world is being flooded by an ocean of unkeyworded and uncaptioned and unedited photos that are 100% worthless so there's no reason for us to worry too much not to mention half of them are selfies and people shooting their dog and their girlfriend.

No, I'm not talking about selfies. "Photography" is nowadays the most popular last name on FB. A lot of members of this family are ready to work for free in exchange for "fame".

Look at the evergrowing number of contributors and photos offered by the agencies.
This is what drives the price of all photos down.

Musical instruments have gotten cheaper too. Anyone can buy an electronic keyboard for a few dollars. This hasn't created a vast oversupply of capable musicians.

Yes there are too many people trying to sell too many photos, but a large part of what happened to stock was a middleman gaining control of a market and taking all the profit out of it for suppliers. In economics, the remedy for this is called disintermediation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disintermediation

Actually the number of musicians has exploded as well:

https://www.techdirt.com/blog/casestudies/articles/20130529/15560423243/massive-growth-independent-musicians-singers-over-past-decade.shtml

And with subscription services like Spotify, the musicians are in the same position as the photographers.

stockastic · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2015, 14:02 »

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 13:56

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 10:24
Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 06:30
Quote from: Hobostocker on April 09, 2015, 00:45
Quote from: ultimagaina on April 08, 2015, 15:08
Everybody is a photographer these days.
The price of the imagery is crippled by the abundance of images. The same thing happens with any other product when the offer exceeds the demand.
The rest is just business.

that's true only for quantity but for anything else the world is being flooded by an ocean of unkeyworded and uncaptioned and unedited photos that are 100% worthless so there's no reason for us to worry too much not to mention half of them are selfies and people shooting their dog and their girlfriend.

No, I'm not talking about selfies. "Photography" is nowadays the most popular last name on FB. A lot of members of this family are ready to work for free in exchange for "fame".

Look at the evergrowing number of contributors and photos offered by the agencies.
This is what drives the price of all photos down.

Musical instruments have gotten cheaper too. Anyone can buy an electronic keyboard for a few dollars. This hasn't created a vast oversupply of capable musicians.

Yes there are too many people trying to sell too many photos, but a large part of what happened to stock was a middleman gaining control of a market and taking all the profit out of it for suppliers. In economics, the remedy for this is called disintermediation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disintermediation

Actually the number of musicians has exploded as well:

https://www.techdirt.com/blog/casestudies/articles/20130529/15560423243/massive-growth-independent-musicians-singers-over-past-decade.shtml

And with subscription services like Spotify, the musicians are in the same position as the photographers.

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

ultimagina · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2015, 14:17 »

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:02

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

Exactly, but exactly the same goes for the photographers.

Snapping a good photo, now and then, doesn't make you an artists or even a good photographer. But a lot of times this is exactly what some customers want.
The competition among photographers has increased a lot since the explosion smartphones and all those continuous DSLR improvements.
With so many decent photos produced every day, how can you not expect the price of the photo to go down?

Simple economics.

Embrace the trend, adapt to it, or sink slowly.

stockastic · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2015, 14:34 »

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 14:17

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:02

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

Exactly, but exactly the same goes for the photographers.

Snapping a good photo, now and then, doesn't make you an artists or even a good photographer. But a lot of times this is exactly what some customers want.
The competition among photographers has increased a lot since the explosion smartphones and all those continuous DSLR improvements.
With so many decent photos produced every day, how can you not expect the price of the photo to go down?

Simple economics.

Embrace the trend, adapt to it, or sink slowly.

Sometimes, what people really want is just cheap cr@p. But not always. Go into a big shipping mall, and you'll find one or two "Everything's A Dollar" stores. In microstock, a couple of middlemen got control of the channel and imposed a simplistic one-size-fits-all business model on the entire market. It's as if "Everything's A Dollar" bought the Mall of America and evicted everyone else.

dpimborough · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2015, 15:01 »

And in all that spew he hardly even mentions the image producers that made him his cash.

Covering up the exploitation and sugar coating it with "ain't I grand I'm helping those poor saps in the developing world feed their kids"

HEY Jonny Boy I made less than the price of coffee today buddy spare me a dime?

ultimagina · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2015, 15:02 »

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:34

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 14:17
Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:02

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

Exactly, but exactly the same goes for the photographers.

Snapping a good photo, now and then, doesn't make you an artists or even a good photographer. But a lot of times this is exactly what some customers want.
The competition among photographers has increased a lot since the explosion smartphones and all those continuous DSLR improvements.
With so many decent photos produced every day, how can you not expect the price of the photo to go down?

Simple economics.

Embrace the trend, adapt to it, or sink slowly.

Sometimes, what people really want is just cheap cr@p. But not always. Go into a big shipping mall, and you'll find one or two "Everything's A Dollar" stores. In microstock, a couple of middlemen got control of the channel and imposed a simplistic one-size-fits-all business model on the entire market. It's as if "Everything's A Dollar" bought the Mall of America and evicted everyone else.

If you don't want the "middle man", stop working with "him".
Fly solo, do your own marketing and selling, if you can do it better and have the time for it.
There are people ready to pay more for quality, indeed.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2015, 15:09 »

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:34

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 14:17
Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:02

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

Exactly, but exactly the same goes for the photographers.

Snapping a good photo, now and then, doesn't make you an artists or even a good photographer. But a lot of times this is exactly what some customers want.
The competition among photographers has increased a lot since the explosion smartphones and all those continuous DSLR improvements.
With so many decent photos produced every day, how can you not expect the price of the photo to go down?

Simple economics.

Embrace the trend, adapt to it, or sink slowly.

Sometimes, what people really want is just cheap cr@p. But not always. Go into a big shipping mall, and you'll find one or two "Everything's A Dollar" stores. In microstock, a couple of middlemen got control of the channel and imposed a simplistic one-size-fits-all business model on the entire market. It's as if "Everything's A Dollar" bought the Mall of America and evicted everyone else.

Well, not precisely. If they'd bought up an existing library of images and priced them all the same, maybe. But what they did was set one price for images, and then the contributors decided to submit ever-higher-quality images as a way to outsell the competition. That raised the bar on quality, until now the bar is so high there's no discernible difference between the quality of certain images in microstock and some in macrostock.

ultimagina · « **Reply #26 on:** April 09, 2015, 15:17 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on April 09, 2015, 15:09

Well, not precisely. If they'd bought up an existing library of images and priced them all the same, maybe. But what they did was set one price for images, and then the contributors decided to submit ever-higher-quality images as a way to outsell the competition. That raised the bar on quality, until now the bar is so high there's no discernible difference between the quality of certain images in microstock and some in macrostock.

Exactly!
Even more: there is not discernible difference between what Peter Lik sells for many thousands of dollars as "fine art" and some of the microstock photos (except that we can really consider some of the microstock photos better than Lik's)

Nobody stops those talented microstockers to go the Lik's way, if they don't like the "middle man"

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2015, 15:26 »

pixelbytes...

i think you're right... but both bush and nixon can be overlapped with oringer

the lifting of the bar and dollar store argument is right on too.
the bar has been lifted so high that there is actually very good images , perharps too good work on micro ss going for less than a dollar. at least the dollar shop never goes below a dollar.
and most of the stuff you find in the everything for dollar shops are pretty much junk...
not so for ss work . esp when you consider how atilla and breed expect the new work to be absolute .

problem is also no one else is big enough to take on ss and give good images the higher price.
there is offset and stocksy and canva but i really don't think they are cracking the market that much
to the point where oringer would shift gear into getting more money for all of us.

Lizard · « **Reply #28 on:** April 09, 2015, 16:01 »

Nice outfit on that photo

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2015, 16:39 »

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 15:17

Nobody stops those talented microstockers to go the Lik's way, if they don't like the "middle man"

Nobody except themselves. To be Lik I would guess you need enormous self-confidence, marketing skills, business acumen, energy and, no doubt, a fair amount of luck. Not many have that mix.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #30 on:** April 10, 2015, 03:20 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 09, 2015, 16:39

Nobody except themselves. To be Lik I would guess you need enormous self-confidence, marketing skills, business acumen, energy and, no doubt, a fair amount of luck. Not many have that mix.

in the case of Peter Lik it was all about location and luck ... after selling postcards he got the foot in the door of the art world and had two galleries in australia but he never got rich with it, he sold them and opened in the US and it was a fiasco as well ... finally in despair he claimed he had to "go big or go home" and opened in a prime location in Hawaii and it was a success, from this "mother shop" in Hawaii he got the banks lending him a sh-itload of money to open in Vegas and the rest is history.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #31 on:** April 10, 2015, 03:29 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on April 09, 2015, 15:09

Well, not precisely. If they'd bought up an existing library of images and priced them all the same, maybe. But what they did was set one price for images, and then the contributors decided to submit ever-higher-quality images as a way to outsell the competition. That raised the bar on quality, until now the bar is so high there's no discernible difference between the quality of certain images in microstock and some in macrostock.

but the next step is that only contributors with big portfolios will stay afloat and anyone else sooner or later will give up ...

as for people doing stock in the third world, let me remind you that the so called third world is no longer as cheap as 5-10 yrs ago, if Oringer is betting on chinese/indian/filipino stockers willing to work for a pittance he's in for a bad surprise ...

Hobostocker · « **Reply #32 on:** April 10, 2015, 03:36 »

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 14:17

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:02

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

Exactly, but exactly the same goes for the photographers.

Snapping a good photo, now and then, doesn't make you an artists or even a good photographer. But a lot of times this is exactly what some customers want.
The competition among photographers has increased a lot since the explosion smartphones and all those continuous DSLR improvements.
With so many decent photos produced every day, how can you not expect the price of the photo to go down?

Simple economics.

Embrace the trend, adapt to it, or sink slowly.

and by simple economics the only way to stay in the stock business is to own a large portfolio, precisely because it's oversaturated and you can't compete too much on quality since the fees are miserable.

the immediate consequence of this is that newbies will give up since there's no return on investment, and sooner of later this will be acknowledged by the agencies.

agencies had a free lunch so far but it won't last forever.
lots of people are leaving Alamy for lack of sales, others gave up with second and third tier micro agencies, this is just the beginning and the final outcome is obvious, just give it some time ...

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #33 on:** April 10, 2015, 03:41 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on April 10, 2015, 03:20

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on April 09, 2015, 16:39
Nobody except themselves. To be Lik I would guess you need enormous self-confidence, marketing skills, business acumen, energy and, no doubt, a fair amount of luck. Not many have that mix.

in the case of Peter Lik it was all about location and luck ... after selling postcards he got the foot in the door of the art world and had two galleries in australia but he never got rich with it, he sold them and opened in the US and it was a fiasco as well ... finally in despair he claimed he had to "go big or go home" and opened in a prime location in Hawaii and it was a success, from this "mother shop" in Hawaii he got the banks lending him a sh-itload of money to open in Vegas and the rest is history.

Sounds like a fair amount of business acumen, energy and self-confidence in that history - plus a willingness to gamble everything on a single throw of the dice. It reminds me a bit of the Marquis of Montrose's poem "he either fears his fate too much, or his desserts are small, that puts it not unto the touch to win or lose it all". Of course, he wrote that before they chopped his head off and stuck it on a spike in Edinburgh for the next 11 years (which might serve as a practical warning against being over-ambitious).

ultimagina · « **Reply #34 on:** April 10, 2015, 07:12 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on April 10, 2015, 03:36

Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 14:17
Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:02

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

Exactly, but exactly the same goes for the photographers.

Snapping a good photo, now and then, doesn't make you an artists or even a good photographer. But a lot of times this is exactly what some customers want.
The competition among photographers has increased a lot since the explosion smartphones and all those continuous DSLR improvements.
With so many decent photos produced every day, how can you not expect the price of the photo to go down?

Simple economics.

Embrace the trend, adapt to it, or sink slowly.

and by simple economics the only way to stay in the stock business is to own a large portfolio, precisely because it's oversaturated and you can't compete too much on quality since the fees are miserable.

the immediate consequence of this is that newbies will give up since there's no return on investment, and sooner of later this will be acknowledged by the agencies.

agencies had a free lunch so far but it won't last forever.
lots of people are leaving Alamy for lack of sales, others gave up with second and third tier micro agencies, this is just the beginning and the final outcome is obvious, just give it some time ...

I am fairly sure that you can still very well compete on quality. You have no proof that customers stopped looking for the best. Quite the opposite.

Besides, if your doom and gloom scenario will ever become reality and 80% of the contributors will give-up, then the agencies will adapt in order to retain those unsatisfied contributors.

Or, if not, another smart entrepreneur will setup a new agency and he will be successfully working with those 80% of formerly disgruntled "unemployed" contributors.

So, here you are, you will have an opportunity to become the next Oringer, provided you have the mix mentioned by Baldricks Trousers

Maybe I'll even join your agency

Good luck!

stockastic · « **Reply #35 on:** April 10, 2015, 16:13 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on April 09, 2015, 15:09

Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:34
Quote from: ultimagaina on April 09, 2015, 14:17
Quote from: stockastic on April 09, 2015, 14:02

That's why I said "capable". Yes, anyone can now record a track and offer it on the web. "Independent" doesn't necessarily mean "great".

Exactly, but exactly the same goes for the photographers.

Snapping a good photo, now and then, doesn't make you an artists or even a good photographer. But a lot of times this is exactly what some customers want.
The competition among photographers has increased a lot since the explosion smartphones and all those continuous DSLR improvements.
With so many decent photos produced every day, how can you not expect the price of the photo to go down?

Simple economics.

Embrace the trend, adapt to it, or sink slowly.

Sometimes, what people really want is just cheap cr@p. But not always. Go into a big shipping mall, and you'll find one or two "Everything's A Dollar" stores. In microstock, a couple of middlemen got control of the channel and imposed a simplistic one-size-fits-all business model on the entire market. It's as if "Everything's A Dollar" bought the Mall of America and evicted everyone else.

Well, not precisely. If they'd bought up an existing library of images and priced them all the same, maybe. But what they did was set one price for images, and then the contributors decided to submit ever-higher-quality images as a way to outsell the competition. That raised the bar on quality, until now the bar is so high there's no discernible difference between the quality of certain images in microstock and some in macrostock.

I think when the "dollar" stores were new, you might have found bargains in them. Today, I'm pretty sure that all the products in those stores were made to sell at that price.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #36 on:** April 11, 2015, 14:36 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on April 10, 2015, 03:29

as for people doing stock in the third world, let me remind you that the so called third world is no longer as cheap as 5-10 yrs ago, if Oringer is betting on chinese/indian/filipino stockers willing to work for a pittance he's in for a bad surprise ...

not just them... recently i mentioned ss to arabic and latin ppl
and was told after i mentioned we earn 30 cts to ... xx $
they told me in their language the equivalence of - if it was me, i would say to them
what the f*** may as well go f*** yourself.

gillian vann · « **Reply #37 on:** April 11, 2015, 19:22 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on April 08, 2015, 09:57

"I never imagined that Shutterstock would provide people in emerging economies with the opportunity to earn a decent living."

gee, the guy is a humanitarian and we've been bagging him, instead of giving him a Nobel Prize. silly us.

shudderstok · « **Reply #38 on:** April 11, 2015, 19:34 »

as for people doing stock in the third world, let me remind you that the so called third world is no longer as cheap as 5-10 yrs ago, if Oringer is betting on chinese/indian/filipino stockers willing to work for a pittance he's in for a bad surprise ...
[/quote]

you really think so? he already has lots of western people supporting him and praising SS and the pittance they pay, so if people in the west do this, why would someone from a third world country not do it?

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #39 on:** April 12, 2015, 05:17 »

Meanwhile in India...

India's poor have to open a bank account so they can receive subsidies, but are sometimes asked to pay a bribe when they try.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/indias-push-for-banks-for-all-leaves-some-still-outside-1428528601?mod=e2fb

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #40 on:** April 12, 2015, 11:38 »

Quote from: KnowYourOnions on April 12, 2015, 05:17

Meanwhile in India...

India's poor have to open a bank account so they can receive subsidies, but are sometimes asked to pay a bribe when they try.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/indias-push-for-banks-for-all-leaves-some-still-outside-1428528601?mod=e2fb

india is like all colonies (brazil, baptista cuba, marcos philipines,etc) where there is a tiny portion of society who is allowed to make money more so to remain filthy rich literally while the rest majority is to remain dogs. much in the same way as china used to be where the majority eat sh*t while the ppl in the forbidden city live comfy and expect the whole country to fight for the emperor.
india is the same, where the rajas live down their brown nosing (that came from here when the raja brown nosed the british, to collect lagaan from the poor farmer and untouchables).
today is no different, these rich filth continue to rule the banks,etc. brazil is the same which came from their colonials , locals appointed by portugal to be the lords of the nation while the rest suffer like dogs for a jobs .
they are not considered criminals. eg marco , baptista, now live comfy somewhere in US or other colonial countries . to brown nose the white colonials is not a crime , you are more likely to be welcome to US ,etc when the time comes for the country to kick you out like baptista cuba.

Tryingmybest · « **Reply #41 on:** April 12, 2015, 12:55 »

Time to increase our pay, Mr. Oringer.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #42 on:** April 12, 2015, 15:46 »

Quote from: Striving on April 12, 2015, 12:55

Time to increase our pay, Mr. Oringer.

LMAO as if he comes here to read this. maybe you go tweet his own site he might read it
really, i don`t expect any raise any more than you get a raise watching porn

i would say at least let the total monthly earning be increased across the board
with SOD of those $28 to $120 per single earning
so we still end up making better than having 1000 dls of 30 cts per month.
as someone alteady started a new thread, even that new good thing seem to have disappeared lately...

dpimborough · « **Reply #43 on:** April 12, 2015, 16:37 »

Now there is an idea why not send requests to Jon Oringer's twitter account requesting a raise?

If enough people do that maybe he'll get off his plinth long enough to do it

Not aggressive but just point it out to him ~ a little naming and shaming (its fashionable

)

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #44 on:** April 12, 2015, 18:23 »

Quote from: Teddy the Cat on April 12, 2015, 16:37

Now there is an idea why not send requests to Jon Oringer's twitter account requesting a raise?

currently he has 2,665 tweets 646 following
and none of the tweets have anything to do with ss... just lots of mush.
so many he does need a boost off his plinth like you say... tho i don[t even know what they mean but it sounds good

Hobostocker · « **Reply #45 on:** April 13, 2015, 00:57 »

they will raise our fees only when they will get a substantial benefit from it, like they do with the Offset collection.

dpimborough · « **Reply #46 on:** April 13, 2015, 06:39 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on April 12, 2015, 18:23

Quote from: Teddy the Cat on April 12, 2015, 16:37
Now there is an idea why not send requests to Jon Oringer's twitter account requesting a raise?

currently he has 2,665 tweets 646 following
and none of the tweets have anything to do with ss... just lots of mush.
so many he does need a boost off his plinth like you say... tho i don[t even know what they mean but it sounds good

Plinth ~ a pedestal for a statue or what not

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #47 on:** April 14, 2015, 17:37 »

Meanwhile in Spain...

They claim they are treated like slaves by agencies who hire them to produce the salads and vegetables that end up on supermarket shelves in Britain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3039046/Read-never-buy-bag-supermarket-salad-farmworkers-treated-like-slaves-live-filthy-conditions-major-stores-promise-inquiry.html

Tryingmybest · « **Reply #48 on:** April 16, 2015, 11:21 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on April 12, 2015, 15:46

Quote from: Striving on April 12, 2015, 12:55
Time to increase our pay, Mr. Oringer.

LMAO as if he comes here to read this. maybe you go tweet his own site he might read it
really, i don`t expect any raise any more than you get a raise watching porn
i would say at least let the total monthly earning be increased across the board
with SOD of those $28 to $120 per single earning
so we still end up making better than having 1000 dls of 30 cts per month.
as someone alteady started a new thread, even that new good thing seem to have disappeared lately...

Truthfully, I don't watch porn nor do I expect the lords of microstock to care about those of us who bring them wealth. I only hope to inspire my fellow artists to never be satisfied until we all can make an equal profit from our work. Addressing him was symbolic as his name is now symbolic with the most wealthy in our industry. Peace.

Tryingmybest · « **Reply #49 on:** April 16, 2015, 11:23 »

Quote from: Teddy the Cat on April 12, 2015, 16:37

Now there is an idea why not send requests to Jon Oringer's twitter account requesting a raise?

If enough people do that maybe he'll get off his plinth long enough to do it

Not aggressive but just point it out to him ~ a little naming and shaming (its fashionable )

Just make sure you keep anonymous. Those with power tend to abuse it when exposed to their failures by those who work for them.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #50 on:** April 16, 2015, 11:54 »

Quote from: KnowYourOnions on April 14, 2015, 17:37

Meanwhile in Spain...

They claim they are treated like slaves by agencies who hire them to produce the salads and vegetables that end up on supermarket shelves in Britain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3039046/Read-never-buy-bag-supermarket-salad-farmworkers-treated-like-slaves-live-filthy-conditions-major-stores-promise-inquiry.html

in general that seems to be the trend of the "progressive" nations. we are so quick to point a finger at child ~~slavery~~ working in india, africa,etc but we are blind when it happens in our own backyard with low paying helpers. it accounts for the bad customer services we get these days... notice how the cashier, grocery boy,etc no longer smile with the services. the big named stores run the business like the telemarketing business ie all numbers faceless if you don't like it leave because we can replace you with twenty more in an hour attitude.
microstock has come to that stage too.
as someone points out to me only this week, it's the global culture
even if you are a happy worker in a family run business, the inspectors will make sure your life and family business will be miserable so you close down and let the chain stores profit with their slave market.

ultimagina · « **Reply #51 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:06 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on April 16, 2015, 11:54

Quote from: KnowYourOnions on April 14, 2015, 17:37
Meanwhile in Spain...

They claim they are treated like slaves by agencies who hire them to produce the salads and vegetables that end up on supermarket shelves in Britain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3039046/Read-never-buy-bag-supermarket-salad-farmworkers-treated-like-slaves-live-filthy-conditions-major-stores-promise-inquiry.html

in general that seems to be the trend of the "progressive" nations. we are so quick to point a finger at child ~~slavery~~ working in india, africa,etc but we are blind when it happens in our own backyard with low paying helpers. it accounts for the bad customer services we get these days... notice how the cashier, grocery boy,etc no longer smile with the services. the big named stores run the business like the telemarketing business ie all numbers faceless if you don't like it leave because we can replace you with twenty more in an hour attitude.
microstock has come to that stage too.
as someone points out to me only this week, it's the global culture
even if you are a happy worker in a family run business, the inspectors will make sure your life and family business will be miserable so you close down and let the chain stores profit with their slave market.

Except for a far left propaganda what else do you propose?
Be constructive and propose a society model that works and would make you happy. I'm very curious.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #52 on:** April 17, 2015, 03:06 »

Quote from: Striving on April 16, 2015, 11:23

Quote from: Teddy the Cat on April 12, 2015, 16:37
Now there is an idea why not send requests to Jon Oringer's twitter account requesting a raise?

If enough people do that maybe he'll get off his plinth long enough to do it

Not aggressive but just point it out to him ~ a little naming and shaming (its fashionable )

Just make sure you keep anonymous. Those with power tend to abuse it when exposed to their failures by those who work for them.

hahaha, we should make a campaign styled like an NGO begging for money with photos of stockers dressed in rags sleeping in the street ... i don't know maybe on Indiegogo, the medias could support us since journalists are in the same boat ?

dpimborough · « **Reply #53 on:** April 17, 2015, 03:44 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on April 17, 2015, 03:06

Quote from: Striving on April 16, 2015, 11:23
Quote from: Teddy the Cat on April 12, 2015, 16:37
Now there is an idea why not send requests to Jon Oringer's twitter account requesting a raise?

If enough people do that maybe he'll get off his plinth long enough to do it

Not aggressive but just point it out to him ~ a little naming and shaming (its fashionable )

Just make sure you keep anonymous. Those with power tend to abuse it when exposed to their failures by those who work for them.

hahaha, we should make a campaign styled like an NGO begging for money with photos of stockers dressed in rags sleeping in the street ... i don't know maybe on Indiegogo, the medias could support us since journalists are in the same boat ?

Please sir I want some more

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #54 on:** April 17, 2015, 13:01 »

Quote from: Teddy the Cat on April 17, 2015, 03:44

Quote from: Hobostocker on April 17, 2015, 03:06
Quote from: Striving on April 16, 2015, 11:23
Quote from: Teddy the Cat on April 12, 2015, 16:37
Now there is an idea why not send requests to Jon Oringer's twitter account requesting a raise?

If enough people do that maybe he'll get off his plinth long enough to do it

Not aggressive but just point it out to him ~ a little naming and shaming (its fashionable )

Just make sure you keep anonymous. Those with power tend to abuse it when exposed to their failures by those who work for them.

hahaha, we should make a campaign styled like an NGO begging for money with photos of stockers dressed in rags sleeping in the street ... i don't know maybe on Indiegogo, the medias could support us since journalists are in the same boat ?

Please sir I want some more

based on history of NGO i think it would be futile other than us being wiped out like the mayans, aztecs, and other indigenous.
last night i also found out the guy playing guitar on the sidewalk actually make more money per day than many of us doing microstock. same for the mime who paints himself all white and stand there like a statue. each other, a wife comes to dump the paint bucket full of fivers into a gunny-sack.
it sure looks like at least 50 bucks per hour at least, as i did not count the coins .
my horoscope says to look for a new career... i think i found it

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #55 on:** April 18, 2015, 05:14 »

Meanwhile in America...

The business model of private prisons is to maximize the amount of people in America who are locked up-- not to rehabilitate or ultimately lower incarceration rates.

http://www.attn.com/stories/1256/private-prisons-where-human-beings-are-inventory?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=stories-1256

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #56 on:** April 19, 2015, 16:56 »

Quote from: KnowYourOnions on April 12, 2015, 05:17

Meanwhile in India...

India's poor have to open a bank account so they can receive subsidies, but are sometimes asked to pay a bribe when they try.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/indias-push-for-banks-for-all-leaves-some-still-outside-1428528601?mod=e2fb

And more from India...
http://boingboing.net/2015/04/19/internet-org-delivering-poor.html

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