Interesting topic at SS forum

[kgtoh]

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/abt31147.html

Read it till the end. It gets very interesting.

[leaf]

i have read the thread in a few spots now and then but... really..... 18 pages long.. i don't have the time

[StockManiac]

In summary, he claims to have been doing microstock for just 18 months and now makes well over "6 figures" a year, with 30% of that income (or at least $30,000/year) coming from microstock and he now wants to help everyone "get rich".

Later on in the thread, some posters challenged his claims of income.

After looking at his various portfolios online, I would have to say that I have a problem with his income statements as well.

Here are his total sales on the largest stock sites (excluding SS):

IS: 2312 (since 6/2006)
DT: 3759 (since 7/2006)
FT: 1520 (since 7/2006)
StockXpert: 573 (since 3/2007)

So he has had just over 8,000 sales in total for the past 18 months.  If we assume that he makes $0.75 per sale (which is rather high), then he has made $6,000 on the largest sites (excluding SS) over the past 18 months.

So his numbers just don't add up...

[wysiwyg_foto]

I believe him.

2 1/2 years ago when I started to get into this (summer of 2005), I ran across his work at various agencies - some where you have to pay to have your images listed.  I've seen his work improve over time - and it has improved DRASTICALLY.  He's been doing this a bit longer than 18 months.

Naturally, he isn't giving you all the details (and honestly, I don't think he should).

He works hard, and he's getting a good return.  It's as simple as that.

[sharpshot]

$30,000/year on microstock isn't so unbelievable - if he has 3759 on dreamstime, that is quite a few, and 2312 on istock is lots as well.  His FT and StockXpert numbers are low, but still....

But that wouldn't add up to $30,000 and he has been going for longer than a year.  I would expect to see much bigger numbers than that.

[wysiwyg_foto]

Guys - do a Google search on his name - you'll see where else he contributes and you'll run across a couple of his own sites.  Then do another internet search on his userid.  The internet makes things relatively transparent - believe what you want but it does add up.

[rjmiz]

what?! Is this about making money or your love and ability to create images?

They said this would happen, everything good in my life would soon be capitalized on, and made commercial.
(I just recently found out that the tooth Fairy were my parents. I'm devastated)

Be well, and make a lot of money if that's what floats your boat,
The MIZ

[Contakt]

moved it

[andresr]

As others said, $30,000 is not that much. Taking his total sales is probably the wrong approach since in micro the growth when you upload a lot of images is amazing. I think what he is doing is take the sales from his last month and multiply them by 12.

[Lizard]

what?! Is this about making money or your love and ability to create images?

They said this would happen, everything good in my life would soon be capitalized on, and made commercial.
(I just recently found out that the tooth Fairy were my parents. I'm devastated)

Be well, and make a lot of money if that's what floats your boat,
The MIZ

Miz this is probably the first time I don't agree with you.

I say microstock is mostly about money , at least I see it that way. Of course you can be creative , you can give your love to that job , but metaphorically " you have to leave some space for text on your image". 

Of course we all love doing this , especially comparing it with a full time job when some boss is hanging over your shoulders whole day , but what makes difference between art and all other  things in your life is are few  simple words like  must , rules, standards , etc , and you will find those words in microstock but not in art.

Most people will never sell their best work in such commercial waters , and there are few more ways of expressing your love and ability to create images beside microstock.
 

[sharply_done]

Miz this is probably the first time I don't agree with you.

... he was joking.

[Lizard]

Miz this is probably the first time I don't agree with you.

... he was joking.

Well thats what happens when you go  replaying posts  that you read only  half  in the middle of the night after you spent the evening at the concert. 
 
Sorry about that

[PaulieWalnuts]

what?! Is this about making money or your love and ability to create images?

They said this would happen, everything good in my life would soon be capitalized on, and made commercial.
(I just recently found out that the tooth Fairy were my parents. I'm devastated)

Be well, and make a lot of money if that's what floats your boat,
The MIZ

For me it's both. But I applaud you that you're in this purely for the love of it. Which of the sites are you giving all of your work away at?

[rjmiz]

ahemmm...why that would be...http://www.microstockpix.com/
I can't understand even why you needed to ask that question.

Be well my fiend,
The MIZ

[leaf]

As others said, $30,000 is not that much. Taking his total sales is probably the wrong approach since in micro the growth when you upload a lot of images is amazing. I think what he is doing is take the sales from his last month and multiply them by 12.

yeah i think this sounds more like the case.  On a really good month at shutterstock, or other sites you could have been earning there for say 20 months, and have your last month account for 1/10th of your total earnings.  He could have been excited that the last months average was $2500 (that thread was started just before christmas wasn't it) and mulitplied it by 12 to make $30,000

[Elnur]

for someone doing microstock full time for more than 1 year - 30-40k a year is very low. I claim I can make 50k a year within 5-6 months if I switch to full-time. I have doing it part time for 1.5 years, and 30k a year is not something to get excited about..... this is relatively easy

[sharply_done]

for someone doing microstock full time for more than 1 year - 30-40k a year is very low. ...

That's not really true - if it was that easy to make $30k+ then everyone would be doing it, and nobody would be jumping on threads like this one at SS with "how did you do it" questions. I'd say that perhaps 15% of microstock photographers make more than $30k annually, and all but a few have been doing it for more than one year.

[Phil]

deleted

[KiwiRob]

It's all relative, 30,000 in the US is nothing but 30,000 in 2/3's of the world is a lot of money, he comes from Brazil maybe it's a good income in Brazil.

[thomasw]

30,000 US is roughly 53,400 Brazilian Reals maybe it is throught the conversion that he is getting six figures 53,400 is 30% of 178,000

[vphoto]

for someone doing microstock full time for more than 1 year - 30-40k a year is very low. ...

That's not really true - if it was that easy to make $30k+ then everyone would be doing it, and nobody would be jumping on threads like this one at SS with "how did you do it" questions. I'd say that perhaps 15% of microstock photographers make more than $30k annually, and all but a few have been doing it for more than one year.

that is correct. If making 30,000 with photography will be that easy problems in the developing world would have been solved by giving out P&S cameras to the populace.

[Elnur]

for someone doing microstock full time for more than 1 year - 30-40k a year is very low. ...

That's not really true - if it was that easy to make $30k+ then everyone would be doing it, and nobody would be jumping on threads like this one at SS with "how did you do it" questions. I'd say that perhaps 15% of microstock photographers make more than $30k annually, and all but a few have been doing it for more than one year.

that is correct. If making 30,000 with photography will be that easy problems in the developing world would have been solved by giving out P&S cameras to the populace.

let me clarify what I mean. "Easy" in this context means that you still have to work 8-10 hours a day, just like you would do on any other full-time job. Prediction of 30k a year is based on my experience (1.5 years), I'm not full-time microstocker, I have other busy job.

I'm average photographer with old D70, couple good lenses (105mm VR, 10-20 Sigma, 50mm 1., no lighting equipment except for flash SB-800 (no lightcubes, etc). I don't have a single people shot in portfolio (requiring release). And what I make a year is not far away from 30k, in fact, I will probably make it this year.
With other full-time job, I still manage to upload at least 50 new photos a week. If I were full-time, I would upload 200 photos a week - that would soon translate into 3-4k a month.

Microstock forums are full of lazy people, who managed to upload 200-300 photos in 2 years, and spend more time moaning on forums about falling sales, than shooting photos, processing them and uploading.

[leaf]

well i don't think the $30,000 mark/ year is either so VERY hard, or so very easy either.

I think taking a couple months average when you are at $1000/month or less and mulitping it to what you need for $3,000/month is makes it sounds somewhat easy but actually doing it becomes another story.

I have worked pretty full time with stock this last month and i think creating and editing 200 photos a week would be a challenge.  If it was that easy all the full time microstockers would have portfolios well over 10,000 images.  A look at dreamstime and there is only 4 photographers with over 8000 images - and I know for sure that 3 of those have  a 'team' working for them.

[leaf]

And not meaning to pick a fight Elnur - but looking on dreamstime you have only averaged uploading 15 shots per month - with this month have 0 uploads.  I realize that you may have not been very active for lots of the time, but when we are talking about over the long term I think we also have to take into considering how long we can keep up a pase of X amount of images each month.

If i really blitzed it I could probably create and get up 1000 images in a month - but i don't think I could keep that up all year, and definatly not for all the sites I upload to.

[Elnur]

And not meaning to pick a fight Elnur - but looking on dreamstime you have only averaged uploading 15 shots per month - with this month have 0 uploads.  I realize that you may have not been very active for lots of the time, but when we are talking about over the long term I think we also have to take into considering how long we can keep up a pase of X amount of images each month.

Dreamstime is not a good example. They have very tedious categorisation process and account for only 4-8% of my earnings, so I have suspended DT for time being. I have about 700-800 photos pending there 

If you need comparison... here are some stats for this month..... I added:
293 photos to Fotolia
297 to 123rf
293 to Shutterstock
114 to istock (they have limits below my productivity 
232 to stockxpert
783 to Bigstock (no typo here.. they were in suspension mode too 

So across the board, I increased portfolio by 10%. January sales are up 16%.  Currently my photo is top photo in "Nature" at shutterstock.

I'm very productive, and very proud of this fact. 200 a week is very conservative forecast, if I'm full-time - 300 is probably more realistic. In 1.5 years part-time in microstocks, I have built a portfolio which needs another 100 photos to break into top-50 contributors in stockxpert. Within 1-2 weeks I will be there.

On a another microstock forum, I made a commitment to upload 50 photos a week, and each week I post the screenshot of thumbnails. Have a look at last 150 photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/8797161@N04/sets/72157603806913843/

So, in summary - 30k a year for full-time should be relatively easy to achieve. It requires good camera (mine is old 6mp d70), good lenses, imagination, quick hands with photoshop.... and ambition to succeed. It is not difficult !!!!

[leaf]

well i must say - well done.  having the top selling image on shutterstock for nature, is also a feat in itself.

[helix7]

More odd to me than this guy talking about his success is the fact that so many people regard $30k a year on microstock as a lot. It is more than do-able, part-time, in less than a year. Full time? You should be able to pull more than that.

Not sure it matters, but this is coming from the perspective of someone who sells vectors, which I think tend to be more profitable. It may be harder to hit those numbers within a year as a photographer. Not sure, though.

[leaf]

well if it WAS so easy i think there would be more people doing this full time.

If it was 'easy' to make 30K on microstock doing it part time, then full time you should be able to get 60K.  After two years of full time microtsock you should be earning 120K

Why would anyone NOT do microstock photography full time if a 120K job was waiting for them after 2 simple years of full time work?

[helix7]

well if it WAS so easy i think there would be more people doing this full time.

If it was 'easy' to make 30K on microstock doing it part time, then full time you should be able to get 60K.  After two years of full time microtsock you should be earning 120K

Why would anyone NOT do microstock photography full time if a 120K job was waiting for them after 2 simple years of full time work?

Quite true. It's probably not quite as easy as I'd like to believe. But I do think it's more feasible than the doom-and-gloom threads at some of the other forums make it out to be. People act like making $10 a day at SS is a big deal, when really I bet $30/day is much more common than anyone knows. There are just way more people talking about $10/day in the forums than $30/day, or $50/day, etc, etc...

[kosmikkreeper]

I can tell you that not many microstockers make more than $30000/yr.  When I hit roughly $30K/yr I was in the top 0.05% of all contributors on IS and FT (so probably most others as well) based on rankings and downloads. FT says they have 80000 contributors and IS says 50000.

But I can tell you that it wasn't too hard to hit $30K and $60K shouldn't be hard either. 

[hatman12]

FT doesn't have 80,000 contributors.  As usual they've exaggerated their numbers (and how anyone can actually believe a word they say is beyond me, but there you are).

I reckon they have 25,000.  Mwp1969 is the last person on this forum to join FT and he recently said he's position 22,000 with his first two downloads.  So either FT's 80,000 is completely wrong (once again) or there are 68,000 contributors with zero sales.

I had hoped that FT would become more 'honest' over time, but they just shove out any old numbers and statistics.  The 80,000 was probably chosen so they could claim to be the same as Shutterstock.

The last official number from IS was 38,000.

[graficallyminded]

duplicate post due to connectivity issues.
 

[graficallyminded]

I agree with Elnor - I work part time at this, as I have a full-time dayjob that I need in order for a reliable way to pay the bills.  This year I'm up to 13 sites, have a total of about 850 photos and illustrations, and still continue to work at this for 3-4 hours a week.  30k would be an easy goal for me, if I switched to doing this full time for at least 5-6 months I think I would definitely be able to do it by the end of the year.  I don't have any models in my portfolio, but I will soon.  I use a point and shoot, and sometimes I'm able to borrow the "entry level DSLR" Nikon D40x from work. 

I really am tired of working in the corporate world, and would love to be my own boss.  Full creative freedom also appeals to me.  You have to be a motivated self starter to keep yourself on task, however - just as in any home based business.  Someday I'll make the switch, but for now I am trying to increase my stock income in order to make the transition sooner, when it finally comes. 

Oh look, I'm wasting too much time on forums again   Time to get my butt in gear and start keywording again.
 
My boy "The MIZ" is right though - this isn't all just about the money.  It's about doing what you love, and getting the thrill in seeing that other people like your work, and can use it in their design work!  At least stock lets us get something back from the time it takes out of our lives to produce it.

[Jimi King]

I agree. I look at microstock as a bonus (and hopefully a pension) that I enjoy doing.

And if I were making $30k plus a year at it I wouldn't be on forums telling everybody about it.

[vikavalter]

Im doing almost 8hr/7days and I still can't pay my bills, what I am doing wrong?

[helix7]

...And if I were making $30k plus a year at it I wouldn't be on forums telling everybody about it.

Exactly what I have been thinking. The people that make decent money really don't talk about it, so we really don't know how many of them there are. Aside from Yuri talking about his earnings, and a few others just slightly hinting at what they've made in the past, I think that most high-earners remain pretty quiet about it, and I would do the same if I were them.

[Elnur]

I think that most high-earners remain pretty quiet about it, and I would do the same if I were them.

come on, you're !!

[helix7]

I think that most high-earners remain pretty quiet about it, and I would do the same if I were them.

come on, you're !!

Actually I make $250,000 a year from microstock. I just pretend to be a low earner to confuse everyone and mask my wealthy lifestyle.



More relevant here, I do think that $30k is not only doable but rather easy. Is he doing it? Probably not. But many people are. I'd be more inpressed if the guy was saying he made a 6-figure income from microstock alone.

[rinderart]

I asked around. I think hes full of crap. But who cares, what matters is what I make.

[DanP68]

Is this including your stand up act too?   

[anonymous]

budda - bing...3 shows nightly!

[lisafx]

well if it WAS so easy i think there would be more people doing this full time.

If it was 'easy' to make 30K on microstock doing it part time, then full time you should be able to get 60K.  After two years of full time microtsock you should be earning 120K

Why would anyone NOT do microstock photography full time if a 120K job was waiting for them after 2 simple years of full time work?

LOL!  Boy do I feel like a slacker!  I am about to cross the three year mark in doing this and I don't make anywhere near six figures.  That will teach me to squeeze in a real life around my shooting and uploading

How many people would you estimate are actually making six figures from microstock alone?  Maybe 20 or so?  Doubt its much more than that...

[DanP68]

budda - bing...3 shows nightly!

Take my wife, please!  You can catch me all week at the Tropicana, and don't forget to spay and neuter your pets.