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Author Topic: Everybody opted-in  (Read 10693 times)

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vonkara

« on: March 22, 2008, 17:47 »
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Do it's just me or barely all of the pictures on StockXpert are available for subs. There's me and some other weird who are out of the subs. If I was a buyer I will never think a second to buy by credits. So for people whit subs, do your incomes fall since the subs model? Or do the subs are coming enough to make the incomes the same it was whit credit?


« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2008, 20:50 »
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I opted out as well. If I opted in, and there were few subs dls, it wouldn't matter. If I opted in, and I had tons of subs dls, I would potentially lose at least as much as I gained, since some full price hi-res sales would undoubtedly be replaced by subs.

So, I'm out. Permanently   ;D

« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2008, 22:49 »
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I have opted out of subs at StockXpert as well.

My belief is that if a buyer see's what they need for credits and it is not offered anywhere they have a subscription, then they will still go ahead and purchase it for credits if it is what they need for their project.

Mark

« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 00:55 »
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Opted out in January -> thread "Are things going well in microstock?"

Since then, I experienced a sharp drop in credit sales (not a single DL last week, never had that since I joined StockXpert).

Yesterday, I opted in again to see if there is any correlation.

« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 03:06 »
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I never opted out, as I think that is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The customers who buy subscriptions are not the same customers who buy single pictures. I believe SX is trying to tempt the existing customers away from SS, so the subscription sales are as well as single sales, not instead of.
I view the subscription sales as sales I would have had on another site, and would have missed if I opted out.

« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 03:48 »
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Clivia...........Truer words were never spoken.

It's my belief that those people who have "Opted Out" are under the impression that the
customer is faced with a choice at the moment of downloading: Subscription, or Credit download. This is NOT the case.

Those who have decided to opt out are otherwise missing out on valuable cash they could have had otherwise. These customers are two groups separate and apart from one another.

It becomes enormously frustrating for me on DT when I see a long string of .30 cent sub sales.
Especially when I feel I have worked so diligently on those images.

To be paid just 30 cents for those images seems an outrageous injustice to my ego. After all
 I make $100 an hour Freelance. Alas, that type of thinking will NOT serve me well.

It remains a fact, that if you opt out of StockXpert's subs, you will experience LESS downloads.
I don't claim to say you will see a significant drop in your earnings. However you put yourself
in a position NOT to receive the benefit of sales you otherwise might have had.

The MIZ


« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 06:49 »
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I have no regrets opt out, for me it works well. Selling images for 0.30$ or even 0.21  on Dreamstime  its not a way to sell my work.

« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 08:28 »
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I too opted back in after seeing many people on the list (including the big players) opted back in.
I am obviously not a big fun of sub sales,but the only reason why I opted back in to get more exposure to my images in the search list.you know the more they get downloaded the higher  rank they will have in the list.
but,as for the 'two type of buyers' I have doubts about that as this sub systems goes on sooner or later  I believe they  will all convert in to sub buyers.especially  considering StockXpert is (was)going to increase ppd prices while they are going to keep the sub prices same(as far as I know that is the case) that will probably encourage ppd buyers to become subscribers because for the price of a handful images they would be able to buy hundreds of images.
lately it has been mention more often that such policies I think encouraging more  contributers to think more seriously about IS exclusivity.

vonkara

« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 14:08 »
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but,as for the 'two type of buyers' I have doubts about that as this sub systems goes on sooner or later  I believe they  will all convert in to sub buyers.especially  considering StockXpert is (was)going to increase ppd prices while they are going to keep the sub prices same(as far as I know that is the case) that will probably encourage ppd buyers to become subscribers because for the price of a handful images they would be able to buy hundreds of images.


Exactly what I wanted to say. Because I know there are two types of buyer, but if I was one of them and see that almost every pictures are available to sub, why I will purchase them whit credits. The only thing that can make somebody purchase whit credits is the ones who don't buy for the same amount as subs cost as I understand it. Maybe I'm wrong, do I.

« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 15:13 »
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If there are two types of buyers, I don't want those who like to pay too little for a high res image. That's why I never joined SS. I don't see why someone is not able to pay at least US$1 for an image. If they are a business (designer, etc), I'm sure the cost of images in their projects is marginal even if buying per credit.  IS is a proof of that.

I still haven't opted out in StockXpert because I'm giving the site a credit.  Having giving us a choice, unlike other sites that created a subs model after we were there and did not give us any chance to opt out nor listened to any suggestion, I think they are playing very straight with us, and I appreciate that. 

Subs have been a minor player in my sales in StockXpert and DT, though not an insignificant one (15-20% in dlds). I'm waiting to see what happens when the new pricing starts. Unfortunately new prices seem to favor subs packages. I wished sites moved the other way, making subs packages more costly, so buyers would think twice about the cost-benefit. 

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 17:03 »
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After reading some more of your replies a thought stuck me.

Under which conditions would I be more content:

1. selling 25 images for $1.00
2. selling 100 images for .30 cents?

The second option has one distinct advantage over the other. Can you guess?
The answer is not of course the additional $5.00 you made....that's too obvious.

It is for this OTHER advantage that I would even forsake the additional $5.00!

Anyone care to guess what that is?

The MIZ

helix7

« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 17:13 »
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I think I have to agree with miz on this one. Sub and credit customers are two different groups. Someone who buys via subscription will likely not want to buy anything outside of that subscription, because they figure they already paid for the subscription and want to use it to it's fullest advantage. They are more likely buying exclusively within the subscription, and I highly doubt that they would purchase credits to buy a non-sub image.

Do subscriptions suck for contributors? Absolutely. StockXpert, SS DT, no matter where you go, subscription sales mean less money per image sold for us. But does that mean that opting out helps? I am of the opinion that opting out doesn't really make much of a difference, or that it actually means less money for us compared to if you were opted-in. Opting out more likely means that you are just passing up on sub sales, and not gaining credit sales by not offering an image as a sub download.



« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 17:27 »
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I never opted out, as I think that is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The customers who buy subscriptions are not the same customers who buy single pictures. I believe SX is trying to tempt the existing customers away from SS, so the subscription sales are as well as single sales, not instead of.
I view the subscription sales as sales I would have had on another site, and would have missed if I opted out.

This argument sounds very reasonable, and I certainly agree that StockXpert is trying to tempt existing customers from SS, rather than going after new markets.

If it's true though, why are so many reporting that their XL and L sales have almost dried up on StockXpert?

I think the one thing I have come to realise from all this, is that subscription must be far, far more profitable for the agency than I ever realised. Otherwise, why would DT and StockXpert be so keen to get into it? And to think we all thought that IS was paying the least.

As we all patiently wait for SS to make their announcement.......

« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 13:12 »
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Question:

What happens to all the photographers that have opted out of subs, if all the buyers go to subs?

Do they starve for DL's?

The MIZ

vonkara

« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 13:40 »
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I will opt-in and then hope that you will be right and that it will be a hundred downloads instead of 25 simple as that. If not :(.

« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2008, 14:36 »
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"....and then hope that you will be right....."

I do not present my question as an argument "for, or against" for opting in - out.
I just lay the cards on the table, and leave the rest to common sense and your best judgment.

It's not a question that requires an answer it was rhetorical.

The MIZ
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 14:38 by rjmiz »

« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2008, 14:48 »
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Opted out in January -> thread "Are things going well in microstock?"

Might have worked if the person that started the boycott stayed out, eh?

« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 15:30 »
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Question:

What happens to all the photographers that have opted out of subs, if all the buyers go to subs?

Do they starve for DL's?

The MIZ

Well, I've never been the submissive type, and I'm too old to change now :D

« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 18:05 »
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Under which conditions would I be more content:

1. selling 25 images for $1.00
2. selling 100 images for .30 cents?

I am an odd person and I definitely prefer number 1. 

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2008, 18:24 »
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Opted out in January -> thread "Are things going well in microstock?"

Might have worked if the person that started the boycott stayed out, eh?
Sure. Some persons earn $10 more immeditely and they will lose much more later... Funny what people can do for a beer pack's price. Business rules don't exist in RF. "Artists" are ready to work for free. ;D

jsnover

« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2008, 18:45 »
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No one can predict how things will change if we opt in or out of subscription sales at StockXpert, but as part of cutting out unproductive elements in the mix of income (like dropping CanStock) I have opted out at StockXpert.

I don't have to answer the rhetorical question about what will happen if all buyers move to subscriptions as so far they haven't.

There are long term and short term answers to most of these questions about fair pricing. This month, if the total from either of two pricing models is $100 it doesn't much matter how it came about, but over time, supporting unfavorable (to contributors) pricing models will not be good for business - for us, the contributors.

Business needs to be sustainable - except for pyramid schemes and other illegal scams. Some folks at iStock were very disparaging of SS when it started, saying that subscriptions just weren't sustainable. SS has proved them wrong (the limit per day and per month made the system work).

In spite of the various  criticisms chucked at microstock by the traditional stock business, there has been a good and growing market for quality images at bargain prices. The prices overall have risen quite a bit over the last few years. Even with the erosion of addiing subscription sales, DT's per download average is higher now than the 50 cents a download we got at the beginning.

As contributors, I think we gain when businesses try to get a new market - new pool of buyers - into the microstock customer base. Fotolia and StockXpert both went after the international market (iStock belatedly followed), for example. DT and SS are offering editorial.

When the sites start competing with one another in such a way as to drive prices back down again without expanding the market (which is what StockXpert's and  DTs subscriptions seem to have done), it doesn't seem to be good for contributors.

Clearly the microstock sites have something more than the free sites offer or buyers wouldn't be paying. Even when the trads drop their prices (the $49 web image from Getty for example) it's still significantly higher than the micros. I don't see that every per-picture micro site has to offer subscriptions to survive and prosper. None of them have been able to even approach SS's volume.

I'd like to see a few solid, long-term sustainable models come out of the various experiments the micro agencies are trying. I sincerely hope that this mixed model is one that doesn't make it. Subscriptions for small/med sizes or variable price subscriptions (high res files count as 2 dowloads, for example) would be a much more interesting experiment, IMO. It's a shame none of the sites want to give it a shot.

Personal contentment has nothing to do with it (for me) - it's about keeping an eye on the long term while still counting this month's income.

« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2008, 13:09 »
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I followed the discussions on this subject for quite a while. My subscription sales at StockXpert were quite low so I opted out a couple of month ago with a light heart. However thinking about the idea that despite low value they increase my exposure I decided to try to opt in. I did it in the beginning of the month (today) to make a clear difference.

Personally I would prefer to keep it off - but it depends on the impact on sales. Will see at the end of this (or next) month.

« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2008, 10:33 »
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Nothing gives an image long term sustainability quite like DL's.  Though you may lose out (in the $ per DL dept) giving away your image at penny prices to one particular consumer that would just as likely move on to some other similar image in lieu of buying yours for full credit prices (unless your image is very, very unique, there is almost always one similar that is good enough), you gain when two years down the road someone looking for a single image and willing to pay top prices for it finds it on the front page of their search as opposed to being buried several pages deep because it was never downloaded very much.  The search engine that orders the images for the customers doesn't care if your image averages .30/DL or 2.00/DL, all it cares about is the total number of downloads (or average rate over a time span) for either a best match sort or a download sort.  It is my experience, and readily checkable on sites with a DL sort, that the more an image is DL'ed, the more an image is DL'ed.  The # of DL's per image on page 1 of any DL sort far exceeds the images on all other pages simply because they are on page 1.  If you opt out and your image is similar to one that hasn't, chances are over time, the opted in one will be DL'ed more, get higher placement (for subs or not) be DL'ed more and so on, in the end drastically beating your opted out image not only in overall sales, but in single image sales as well simply because it is more highly place in the search engine.  The only way that I can ever see opting out to be good is if your images are so unique that there is no competition (that competition will create itself though if they are too good via copycats) or if you are specifically sought out by the majority of your buyers.

« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2008, 11:49 »
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Will try opting back in after a loss of almost all activity from this site since I "opted-out." If I am going to continue to upload to this site, I need some return on my time ...

Mark

« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2008, 11:58 »
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I have a feeling they modified the search engine for people who turned subs off forcing them   opt-in again.

« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2008, 12:05 »
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I have a feeling they modified the search engine for people who turned subs off forcing them   opt-in again.

I believe you are right vphoto  :-\  As ALL of my activity on this site stopped the day I "opted-out." Also ... they heavy hitters would not have returned unless it hit their revenue stream significantly.

Mark

« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2008, 12:16 »
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Guys,

We didn't modify the search engine to benefit sub opt-ins. Just the other day some contributors were saying they saw an increase in sales since opt-ing out.

As has always been the case, number of downloads is a factor, but nothing was modified post subscription launch.

Different actions will have different effects on different portfolios.

Thanks!
-Steve

« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2008, 13:45 »
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Yes I did see people in another forum saying their sales increased after they opted-out. My sales were rather flat while I was out.

Perhaps there is no direct link, but it's interesting to test the theories :)

« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2008, 14:06 »
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my sales stied pretty much the same, maybe went bit up after opting out

ironarrow

« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2008, 00:19 »
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Opted out in January -> thread "Are things going well in microstock?"

Since then, I experienced a sharp drop in credit sales (not a single DL last week, never had that since I joined StockXpert).

Yesterday, I opted in again to see if there is any correlation.

Same here.. I tried but I opted in again..

I am pretty sure that as soon as you opt-out, stockxpert gives you less exposure.. Much Less!!! An the reason for that is they wouldn't want to upset their customers.. After all, If I was a buyer and subscribed for a couple of hundred dollars I would really go mad having to pay extra for some images that are not included.. There would be no point for me subscribing if I was still gonna spend extra money..
So what the website does is clever.. Do NOT show the opted-out images to subscribers at all!! I would do that!

I am more than sure this is the case, because as soon as I opted back in sales started to flow again..

« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2008, 02:35 »
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Iron, I was opted out for quite a while and my sales went down, but not instantly. I believe when subdls were missing my files got less popular. Each dl counts to the popularity of your file, it does no difference if sub or credit. Therefore because we are then missing sub dls, our files got less popular. That quite simple and legit in my opinion.
It is not automatically that opting out will not show your files up in the search engine. I checked that.
Thats my theory.

ironarrow

« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2008, 07:54 »
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Iron, I was opted out for quite a while and my sales went down, but not instantly. I believe when subdls were missing my files got less popular. Each dl counts to the popularity of your file, it does no difference if sub or credit. Therefore because we are then missing sub dls, our files got less popular. That quite simple and legit in my opinion.
It is not automatically that opting out will not show your files up in the search engine. I checked that.
Thats my theory.

You could be right.. And it sounds very logical.. But also it is possible to hide opted-out images if there are alternatives and only show them in the search results when there are no alternatives..

I really can not explain my experience in any other way because it was my number 2 best selling site, then it became number 6, and since I opted in again it went back up there where it was.. That is no coincidence I think..

Popularity thing is very logical but there is no way it is going to effect me straight after I opted-out.. it would need some time for my files to lose popularity.. not the next day..
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 07:56 by ironarrow »

« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2008, 08:13 »
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Sorry to report, but there is no conspiracy at StockXpert.

All you need to do is try a search to find that non-subscription images will also show up with subscription images.

For example, if you search for "water drop" by popularity (the default search)(@ http://www.stockxpert.com/browse.phtml?f=search&type=2&txt=water%20drop), you will find that there are about a dozen non-sub images in the top sixty.

One thing that I would like to see at StockXpert is the ability to opt-in/out by the image.

« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2008, 06:59 »
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It seems to me that my sales went up after I opted back in in April. It is still just beginning of the month so it's too early for conclusions, but so far my SX sales are progressing better this month comparing with several flat months while I was opted out.

Remark: When I say "better sales" I mean $$ value, not just number of sales. So it seems to me that the idea that even low value of subscription sales still increase my portfolio exposure and therefore non-subscription sales, might have sense.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 07:01 by MikLav »

« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2008, 16:57 »
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I haven't been out yet, but I can also say this month is rocking for me in StockXpert.  If this pace is kept, it will be my BME there.

Regards,
Adelaide

jsnover

« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2008, 18:38 »
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There's a thread in StockXpert's forums (or should I say, a buyer posted a question to which as yet there is no answer) asking if advanced search could have a check box to show only subscription images.

The buyer's comment is that with "...more and more people opting out of subscriptions..." he doesn't want to see images that he can't buy. From his point of view it seems very reasonable.

Not sure if it's actually true that more people are opting out as I don't track that and I'm sure StockXpert wouldn't say.

At any rate, with IS's subscription plan charging higher prices for larger sizes, perhaps there's some chance that StockXpert will reconsider their subscription plan too.

« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2008, 19:40 »
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Well, I did not opt in...since I never opted out. Subscriptions at StockXpert do not bother me much - about 90% of what I sold there comes from credit sales anyway, and the number of pics sold on subscription is lower than the number of pics in credit sales. Honestly - I do not care how they sell the pics and for how much - as long as they kep selling. StockXpert works OK for me.

graficallyminded

« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2008, 21:26 »
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I opted in, then out, then in - whatever.  I don't care anymore.  I notice no real difference in sales either way.

« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2008, 17:02 »
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I am about to opt-out... Subs sales reached 40% of my dlds this month, 50% in the past week.  My latest upload sold three times, all subs, L size. 

I hate to do that, given StockXpert has been a very good site, and Steve-oh has always been responsive to us here, but letting images go so cheap is outrageous (again, it's not my share, it's people buying images too cheap).

Regards,
Adelaide


 

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