A Minimal Symbiostock - Less is More - Community Project

[Leo Blanchette]

I'm putting out a call for people to help develop the base theme, for a final and clean appearance.

Anyone who makes significant contributions to Symbiostock can of course have a premium version free of charge. Even if you tackle a page, that is enough. If you are already in possession of the premium theme, we will instead give prominent links from the main site.

----    -----    -----    -----    -----   THE GOAL -----    -----    -----    -----    -----    -----   

Simply stated: A refinement to the Styles.

Minimal, Clean, Happy

Not too much color, but refreshing. Let color accent it in the most minimal, necessary ways.

I love white, and I know its a universal standard

Imagine if your Symbiostock site could make you feel like your in here:

http://www.ghoofie.com/interior-design/modern-and-beautiful-white-interior-decoration/attachment/cool-white-room-flowing-curtains-decor/

You know that "Dragonlfly" theme we have? We're going to put those options straight into the main theme, out of the package. But, the default is going to be this beautiful, minimal version we create together.

Symbiostock's appearance is still a little clunky. Thankfully, however, this is not due to structure. Its a simple solution: A style sheet.

Do research. Be inspired. Find things you like, that are refreshing and happy, and see how they can be applied to Symbiostock. This will in fact be the first big group effort of the network.

-----    -----    -----    -----    -----   THE STANDARD  -----    -----    -----    -----    -----    -----   

See the attached draft of Symbiostock's main page. Still very much under revision, but you can see (especially the top) where things are going.

Just as it's aim is to be visually minimal, we should be seeking only the most conservative use of CSS. Less is more.


--- Whenever possible, white.

--- Text round, modern, and less dark.

--- Flat and blocky shapes.

--- Vivid color only in specific places, accentuating, not dominating, drawing attention to key places.


You may contribute only small blocks of css if you wish, and I (and whoever else is involved) will do what we can to make them consistent with other provided visuals.

Symbiostock is getting a drastic visual overhaul across the board. While I'm accustomed to doing most work myself, I believe its wisest to delegate this with the above terms / standards.

Thank you,

Leo[/list]

[Leo Blanchette]

This thread is happening here:
http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1078

Leaf, could you please lock / stick this in this forum? Thank you.

[Shelma1]

What about those of us who've already helped???

[Ron]

My 150 dollar towards the project is enough help from me. I even use my personal network outside Symbiostock to help out. Dont expect me to put in any more time when most of my suggestions are being ignored.  Also all my threads and comments have been wiped, as if I never existed. I stopped caring about SYS.

[Shelma1]

In all fairness, your posts were probably wiped accidentally when there was a spam issue with the boards and they were just trying to stem the tide of obnoxious spam posts. They had to delete a lot of users and we all had to re-register.

Right now I'm felling pretty neutral about Symbiostock. I've decided to stop being so active and "relax" instead, as Cidepix has suggested.

[Ron]

It wasnt accidentally. But thats not the point. I have grown distant from the project. I couldnt keep up with all the code changes and pieces of code all over the place to patch stuff, etc. Its a whole bag of things that started to rub me the wrong way. There is a lot more, but I better keep some stuff to my self.

[Goofy]

"There is a lot more, but I better keep some stuff to my self. "

Don't keep back your thoughts! I want to hear them in the open thus helping me consider if I want to jump into the game.  Good open thoughts are important especially in this business! 

[Ron]

I am sorry, but thats non of your business. Why put the dirty laundry or my grievances in public? Its a free WP theme, whats there to decide. Just set up your own website, I am still happy with having one. That will never change.

[JPSDK]

I said things about symbiostock a while ago.
Seems they are coming true.

Thing is, with cooperations, or what you call it, the rules and focus, has to be even more clear than with a normal employer / employee relationship.
You cannot do a symbiostock site without a very specific target for the future, like: we are egg exporters and we want to sell eggs to England.
You also cannot do it with a framework that is not agreed on.
So agree on a target ( to sell many pictures), agree on the framework ( percentage and rules) and dictate the style and content.'
If you want a cooperative, to be successfull, you have to dictate a lot, and to exterminate those who will not listen.

And no, I didnt get these views from the USSR, but from the Danish cooperatives who managed to export eggs, bacon and butter to the whole world, and still do.
It is obvious that you cannot be a successfull egg exporter if half of the eggs are rotten or if the customer does not know how to pay.

[Ron]

Its not a cooperative, and I still disagree with your views. Dont pull the' I told you so card' because it has nothing to with what you said a while back. You were talking about security and legal stuff back then, and these issues have nothing to do with that.

[cthoman]

I'm OK with the design. I think these are the only edits I put in my editor...

.panel {
   box-shadow: none;
   border: 0;

   }
.panel-default .panel-heading {
   background-image: none !important;
   background-color: #FFF;
   }

Not sure if that is what you are looking for.

[JPSDK]

Its not a cooperative, and I still disagree with your views. Dont pull the' I told you so card' because it has nothing to with what you said a while back. You were talking about security and legal stuff back then, and these issues have nothing to do with that.

Ron I mentioned security, and it is obvious. I havent mentioned it again. People must find out. See for themselves, when it hurts.

This time I mentioned cooperation and focus.

And I dont care what you call it, symbiosis (which can be defined, or cooperative, which can also be defined) it is not the apple I want it to be, as someone said. It is not. And despite all your effort it is not going to be succesfull untill you get a grip of the basics.
Thats a shame.

[jsfoto]

I stopped caring about SYS.

Sorry to hear that ... but I still think we have to be patient:

- with the success of our sites. When I started my site I was totally aware of the fact that we will not be able replace the agencies within some months.
- with Leo, who is still working quite alone on the code of Symbiostock. Probably none of us can imagine the energy it took to get the theme to the point where it is now.

[JPSDK]

actually the most important thing with symbiostock is to set a timeframe, when it stould be competitive and also be able to deliver the most important pictures in the world.
Competitive prices and competitive content.
Unless you have that, you can go and play in the sandbox.

And you havent, because it takes a long time for you to agree if the site has to be on white or on off white.

it is actually possible, and likely, that you can attract the best image creators in the world here, at this place.
Just give them a platform, they can believe in, and a concept.

[jsfoto]

I said things about symbiostock a while ago.
Seems they are coming true.

Thing is, with cooperations, or what you call it, the rules and focus, has to be even more clear than with a normal employer / employee relationship.
You cannot do a symbiostock site without a very specific target for the future, like: we are egg exporters and we want to sell eggs to England.
You also cannot do it with a framework that is not agreed on.
So agree on a target ( to sell many pictures), agree on the framework ( percentage and rules) and dictate the style and content.'
If you want a cooperative, to be successfull, you have to dictate a lot, and to exterminate those who will not listen.

And no, I didnt get these views from the USSR, but from the Danish cooperatives who managed to export eggs, bacon and butter to the whole world, and still do.
It is obvious that you cannot be a successfull egg exporter if half of the eggs are rotten or if the customer does not know how to pay.

I really would appreciate you to stop your negative comments ... it's very easy to criticize things from outside,without being part of the network. So just become a part of the network, learn about the thing you are talking about ... I do like constructive criticism but I feel your posts are quite self-opinionated.

[farbled]

actually the most important thing with symbiostock is to set a timeframe, when it stould be competitive and also be able to deliver the most important pictures in the world.
Competitive prices and competitive content.
Unless you have that, you can go and play in the sandbox.

And you havent, because it takes a long time for you to agree if the site has to be on white or on off white.

I still don't understand where you're coming from. It's not an agency, its a piece of software to sell digital media that also allows people with similar products to link together if they choose. The whole point (in my opinion) is to allow tog's to have more control over their work. I am quite happy to sell my own stuff on my own site. I choose my prices and my content and what color my site happens to be.

If some chooses to use the software as an agency collaborating with other photographers, then you might have a valid point here and there about how to run it. And that option is certainly available to anyone who chooses it. Perhaps aiming your suggestions at groups like that might make more sense.

[Leo Blanchette]

It wasnt accidentally. But thats not the point. I have grown distant from the project. I couldnt keep up with all the code changes and pieces of code all over the place to patch stuff, etc. Its a whole bag of things that started to rub me the wrong way. There is a lot more, but I better keep some stuff to my self.

Why would I intentionally ruin months of work? Because the boards are full of complaints? Leaf, can you do me a favor and delete all of Symbiostock MSG threads? Thanks.

I had to convert a low-end forum software to a high end one. And there was no direct way to do it (unless i learn the whole software), so I had to convert to an intermediate one, and then to the present one. So yes, it was a catalyst type thing. And yes, posts were lost. And no, not intentionally.

Do you have any idea how much power 5 complainers have over 100 encouraging people? Yet Symbiostock is alive when there is bugs, and its a ghost town when its going the way people like it. Its software. How often do you see people jumping into wordpress to say "THIS IS AWESOME". Tell me which forum has the most threads: http://wordpress.org/support/

Its as Shelma stated: http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1073

And its been stated that when Symbiostock does well, the community is hardly alive. In that case, we're doing very well aren't we.

Am I really obligated to sit here and justify and explain myself, when I can just as easily go back to my happy days as an illustrator and do twice as well?

[Leo Blanchette]

I'm OK with the design. I think these are the only edits I put in my editor...

.panel {
   box-shadow: none;
   border: 0;

   }
.panel-default .panel-heading {
   background-image: none !important;
   background-color: #FFF;
   }

Not sure if that is what you are looking for.

Stuff like this. Thanks. Don't bother posting them here though - this thread  like the others I created are officially destroyed. I'll move this code to the .org thread that wasn't sabotaged.

[Ron]

It wasnt accidentally. But thats not the point. I have grown distant from the project. I couldnt keep up with all the code changes and pieces of code all over the place to patch stuff, etc. Its a whole bag of things that started to rub me the wrong way. There is a lot more, but I better keep some stuff to my self.

Why would I intentionally ruin months of work? Because the boards are full of complaints? Leaf, can you do me a favor and delete all of Symbiostock MSG threads? Thanks.

I had to convert a low-end forum software to a high end one. And there was no direct way to do it (unless i learn the whole software), so I had to convert to an intermediate one, and then to the present one. So yes, it was a catalyst type thing. And yes, posts were lost. And no, not intentionally.

Do you have any idea how much power 5 complainers have over 100 encouraging people? Yet Symbiostock is alive when there is bugs, and its a ghost town when its going the way people like it. Its software. How often do you see people jumping into wordpress to say "THIS IS AWESOME". Tell me which forum has the most threads: http://wordpress.org/support/

Its as Shelma stated: http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1073

And its been stated that when Symbiostock does well, the community is hardly alive. In that case, we're doing very well aren't we.

Am I really obligated to sit here and justify and explain myself, when I can just as easily go back to my happy days as an illustrator and do twice as well?

If you call me a complainer, you are missing the point and are really insulting me. .

[farbled]

Well, I'm enjoying playing with my sites. I've currently turned off the networking side of things to try a few things out with my own marketing efforts, but things I'm looking for down the road will be:

• getting my food site back into the network after I'm done doing some things
• starting a third site or section for all my other stock photos that don't easily fit into either site I have right now
• make a closed network group with my mineral/industrial site. I really want to see how that works for visibility, sales, traffic, etc.

[Ron]

...

[Leo Blanchette]

It wasnt accidentally. But thats not the point. I have grown distant from the project. I couldnt keep up with all the code changes and pieces of code all over the place to patch stuff, etc. Its a whole bag of things that started to rub me the wrong way. There is a lot more, but I better keep some stuff to my self.

Why would I intentionally ruin months of work? Because the boards are full of complaints? Leaf, can you do me a favor and delete all of Symbiostock MSG threads? Thanks.

I had to convert a low-end forum software to a high end one. And there was no direct way to do it (unless i learn the whole software), so I had to convert to an intermediate one, and then to the present one. So yes, it was a catalyst type thing. And yes, posts were lost. And no, not intentionally.

Do you have any idea how much power 5 complainers have over 100 encouraging people? Yet Symbiostock is alive when there is bugs, and its a ghost town when its going the way people like it. Its software. How often do you see people jumping into wordpress to say "THIS IS AWESOME". Tell me which forum has the most threads: http://wordpress.org/support/

Its as Shelma stated: http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1073

And its been stated that when Symbiostock does well, the community is hardly alive. In that case, we're doing very well aren't we.

Am I really obligated to sit here and justify and explain myself, when I can just as easily go back to my happy days as an illustrator and do twice as well?

If you call me a complainer, you are missing the point and are really insulting me. When you needed legal advice I put you in contact with someone from my network, and you completely ignored him and my emails. That pissed me off the most. I have been supporting your project with all the passion in my bones, not to mention the 150 dollar I put towards the project one way or another. I have made many suggestions to improve SYS. I have done testing, I was always the first to upgrade, but many of my suggestions have been ignored. Which added to my frustration.  And yesterday you completely delete my account with all threads and comments I ever created and when I mentioned it, you replied with a stupid joke. That was the straw for me.

So dont you come here on your high horse, its not really helping me calm down.

Very well. Do you remember your friend saying he isn't a lawyer after introducing himself? Yet I didn't "ignore" you, I remember doing lots of replying. But many people get ignored -- my own illustration paying clients, network people, my own father...I simply don't have time to breath as long as I do symbiostock. Don't take it personally.

And am I ignoring your suggestions, or perhaps I simply cannot keep up with them all?

And yes, I deleted your account so you could reopen it since nothing I was doing to help you get in seemed to work. Changing your password, etc. Again, why would I delete your account for personal reasons? Whats the motivation? None, other than the circumstances of the forum deletion which you pretend to understand -- it was a way to solve a problem in very limited time.

[cascoly]

In all fairness, your posts were probably wiped accidentally when there was a spam issue with the boards and they were just trying to stem the tide of obnoxious spam posts. They had to delete a lot of users and we all had to re-register.

Right now I'm felling pretty neutral about Symbiostock. I've decided to stop being so active and "relax" instead, as Cidepix has suggested.

there was also a loss of a month or more's of posts when the switch was made to the  new forum software

[Ron]

Whatever Leo, you are always right, and others are always wrong. I know what happened, and now I also know my help and suggestions were in vain.

Cheers.

[cascoly]

actually the most important thing with symbiostock is to set a timeframe, when it stould be competitive and also be able to deliver the most important pictures in the world.
Competitive prices and competitive content.
Unless you have that, you can go and play in the sandbox.

And you havent, because it takes a long time for you to agree if the site has to be on white or on off white.

I still don't understand where you're coming from. It's not an agency, its a piece of software to sell digital media that also allows people with similar products to link together if they choose. The whole point (in my opinion) is to allow tog's to have more control over their work. I am quite happy to sell my own stuff on my own site. I choose my prices and my content and what color my site happens to be.

If some chooses to use the software as an agency collaborating with other photographers, then you might have a valid point here and there about how to run it. And that option is certainly available to anyone who chooses it. Perhaps aiming your suggestions at groups like that might make more sense.

exactly - this is the point many seem to miss - sym isn't a co-op that you join, and sites have many different goals and attitudes.  for me, it's a much more flexible and attractive alternative to the smugmug site I had previously.   

 it's an alternative, not a replacement for the MS agencies (while some may decide to use it as a replacement)

the symbiostock.com site leo's discussing here is a site ABOUT symbiostock, but isn't meant to be an agency or even a central area to promote all the independent sites

[Leo Blanchette]

Whatever Leo, you are always right, and others are always wrong. I know what happened, and now I also know my help and suggestions were in vain.

Cheers.

Please understand, I woke up to find a crocodile sitting beside my bed. Literally, it seemed like a fire was started without any provocation. Your welcome to react how you wish, but I've never done you any wrong. Besides that, I was called to defend myself before coffee. If I did it less than perfectly, my apologies.

I don't wish for anyone to leave, not even my worst accusers. These agents at least have the benefit of being faceless when they are railed against. An invisible board of directors. But Symbiostock ... "Leo did this!"

I'm setting up my parting words now. Thank you for your support. And while you feel neglected, your site was one that got the majority of my time in comparison to others. Even paid ones.

[Ron]

You are still missing the point of everything I said. Never mind, time heals all wounds.

[Ron]

I think I have every right to be negative. I have helped out on many of these community calls, and I have been disappointed or felt let down. Maybe the comments on this being a cult werent far off. It seems negativity is not allowed. Maybe its about time people start listening to some of the outcries.

[cascoly]

... Leaf, can you do me a favor and delete all of Symbiostock MSG threads? Thanks ...

Leo, I totally understand that you aren't happy that a thread which was meant to be positive (with an idea which I really like a lot, btw.) turned that way. But I don't think it's the right way to delete all Symbiostock MSG threads. We NEED MSG, I think.
Don't let negative voices get to much power over you (and the project)
Just my 2 cents.

completely agree -- both because there are many still who find symbiostock thru MSG and because of my solid opposition to any form of censorship

[Leo Blanchette]

My point was simply that if I wanted to delete all of the negative posts at the .org address, I could. It wasn't a serious request. Anyway, I'm working hard on some parting words. Be back soon.

[Jo Ann Snover]

... Leaf, can you do me a favor and delete all of Symbiostock MSG threads? Thanks ...

Leo, I totally understand that you aren't happy that a thread which was meant to be positive (with an idea which I really like a lot, btw.) turned that way. But I don't think it's the right way to delete all Symbiostock MSG threads. We NEED MSG, I think.
Don't let negative voices get to much power over you (and the project)
Just my 2 cents.

Leaf, please don't delete the Symbiostock threads on MSG - there's a lot of information on here that it would be a shame to lose.

MSG is always prone to mini volcanic eruptions of one sort or another - I think most of us who've been around here a while just ignore the venting and ranting and things in general don't get too out of hand.  People can always delete their own posts if they wish - although sometimes I think it would be preferable to leave them, even if they're a bit intemperate.

[Ron]

Instead of voting my comment down, its a better idea to ask yourself why all of a sudden people who supported the project turn negative. Why does a negative comment have to be keelhauled? Does voting my comment down help solve a problem? 

[cathyslife]

My point was simply that if I wanted to delete all of the negative posts at the .org address, I could. It wasn't a serious request. Anyway, I'm working hard on some parting words. Be back soon.

And therein lies part of the problem. You make jokes about stuff that is important to other people. Part of the reason you want people posting in your own forum is for that very reason...if you want, you can delete. You have control. Here you do not. Here we can express our views, even if you dont like them.


The final straw for me was your "joke" about how, if people didnt behave, you would hack into their site and mess with them. You said this in a thread on the SY forum when a couple people were bickering there. To me, its not a joke. I dont EVER want to hear a developer say he/she will hack into my site. This, after you have asked many people to make you an admin of their site.


I wish you the best of luck. Your intentions started out good, but I PERSONALLY feel it has gone offtrack. Others will agree, others wont. I wish nothing but good things for all, including myself.

[Uncle Pete]

- with the success of our sites. When I started my site I was totally aware of the fact that we will not be able replace the agencies within some months.
- with Leo, who is still working quite alone on the code of Symbiostock. Probably none of us can imagine the energy it took to get the theme to the point where it is now.

I just wanted to say, my mind still boggles at the thought of all the coding, refining, chasing gremlins and bugs, to make the Symbiostock theme work in the first place.

I'll leave it at that.

It needs to become a community project, or without Leo and a couple others currently, it's going to die an orphan. I'm not smart enough with WP or php, to help or contribute, so here's hoping someone out there is.

[jsfoto]

Instead of voting my comment down, its a better idea to ask yourself why all of a sudden people who supported the project turn negative. Why does a negative comment have to be keelhauled? Does voting my comment down help solve a problem?

If I vote down a post (I guess I voted down one of you posts today) it does not say I ignore a problem or don't like a person ... it just says I (really, really) don't agree with something which was said in this specific post.
I would appreciate if we would use forums for constructive discussions ... things like that what you an leo are exchanging here right now are personal things which could be better resolved in a personal communication between you an Leo (pm, mail, etc.).
I would like to talk about Symbiostock here, not about personal feelings or injuries ...

[Ron]

So you voted Leo down as well then? I dont think so. Isnt it the case where two people fight, both are guilty of something? I am just pissed of that it seems Leo can do no wrong and that all outcries are ignored or voted down. How does that help? And then things heat up and get personal. Why wasnt I asked why I am upset and how we could address the issues? And when I tell my issues, they are being denied or ignored, again. Right.

[jsfoto]

- with the success of our sites. When I started my site I was totally aware of the fact that we will not be able replace the agencies within some months.
- with Leo, who is still working quite alone on the code of Symbiostock. Probably none of us can imagine the energy it took to get the theme to the point where it is now.

I just wanted to say, my mind still boggles at the thought of all the coding, refining, chasing gremlins and bugs, to make the Symbiostock theme work in the first place.

I'll leave it at that.

It needs to become a community project, or without Leo and a couple others currently, it's going to die an orphan. I'm not smart enough with WP or php, to help or contribute, so here's hoping someone out there is.

Actually I wonder why you quote me, as I answered to something Ron said, not you ...

[Uncle Pete]

Because it was a question and I appreciated the thought of how much Leo put into the theme. Did you notice I highlighted what I was answering? Or was it a private conversation and no one is allowed to have an opinion? I don't understand?

(resolved, simple misunderstanding, move along folks, nothing here) 

- with the success of our sites. When I started my site I was totally aware of the fact that we will not be able replace the agencies within some months.
- with Leo, who is still working quite alone on the code of Symbiostock. Probably none of us can imagine the energy it took to get the theme to the point where it is now.

I just wanted to say, my mind still boggles at the thought of all the coding, refining, chasing gremlins and bugs, to make the Symbiostock theme work in the first place.

I'll leave it at that.

It needs to become a community project, or without Leo and a couple others currently, it's going to die an orphan. I'm not smart enough with WP or php, to help or contribute, so here's hoping someone out there is.

Actually I wonder why you quote me, as I answered to something Ron said, not you ...

[jsfoto]

Because it was a question and I appreciated the thought of how much Leo put into the theme. Did you notice I highlighted what I was answering? Or was it a private conversation and no one is allowed to have an opinion? I don't understand?

- with the success of our sites. When I started my site I was totally aware of the fact that we will not be able replace the agencies within some months.
- with Leo, who is still working quite alone on the code of Symbiostock. Probably none of us can imagine the energy it took to get the theme to the point where it is now.

I just wanted to say, my mind still boggles at the thought of all the coding, refining, chasing gremlins and bugs, to make the Symbiostock theme work in the first place.

I'll leave it at that.

It needs to become a community project, or without Leo and a couple others currently, it's going to die an orphan. I'm not smart enough with WP or php, to help or contribute, so here's hoping someone out there is.

Actually I wonder why you quote me, as I answered to something Ron said, not you ...

Sorry, I guess I really missunderstood ... it's late here. I will say good night now ... I was kind of overvelmed by all the negative posts today ... and I'm tired.
Hope to read some positive words when I wake up 

[JPSDK]

My point was simply that if I wanted to delete all of the negative posts at the .org address, I could. It wasn't a serious request. Anyway, I'm working hard on some parting words. Be back soon.

And therein lies part of the problem. You make jokes about stuff that is important to other people. Part of the reason you want people posting in your own forum is for that very reason...if you want, you can delete. You have control. Here you do not. Here we can express our views, even if you dont like them.


The final straw for me was your "joke" about how, if people didnt behave, you would hack into their site and mess with them. You said this in a thread on the SY forum when a couple people were bickering there. To me, its not a joke. I dont EVER want to hear a developer say he/she will hack into my site. This, after you have asked many people to make you an admin of their site.


I wish you the best of luck. Your intentions started out good, but I PERSONALLY feel it has gone offtrack. Others will agree, others wont. I wish nothing but good things for all, including myself.

Interesting post. I agree, and Im happy I did not put any time into the sym project.

[Leo Blanchette]

Yeah, I joke as a way of deflecting personal attacks, and the whole project is ruined because of it. 

JSPK, your concerns about security have nothing to do with me. Its the internet. I think you just enjoy giving us trouble.

http://www.clipartillustration.com/inmotion-hosting-hacked-tiger-mte-users-greeted-lame-hacked-page/
http://techcrunch.com/2009/03/03/phishing-attack-takes-down-istockphoto/
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/10/30/google-yahoo-hacked-by-us-government/

I'm only responding because impressionable people read your angry garbage and a public defence is needed.

The truth is, and its obvious and yet nobody sees it ...

Why do angry people love forums? That is the Achilles heal of Symbiostock, its true weakness. Yet I'll keep it as a part of it's makeup. They are still needed.

[Pixart]

Leo!  I didn't have the stomach to read much of this thread.  Just remember that for every critic you have 100's of fans.  I'm one of them.  You shouldn't have to defend yourself every time you come to visit.  And you don't have to reply to every post.

[farbled]

Leo!  I didn't have the stomach to read much of this thread.  Just remember that for every critic you have 100's of fans.  I'm one of them.  You shouldn't have to defend yourself every time you come to visit.  And you don't have to reply to every post.

Well put. Completely agree.

[marthamarks]

Leo!  I didn't have the stomach to read much of this thread.  Just remember that for every critic you have 100's of fans.  I'm one of them.  You shouldn't have to defend yourself every time you come to visit.  And you don't have to reply to every post.

+100 to every word of that.

I learned a long time ago that silence is often the best response to criticism. Others who aren't so emotionally invested are better prepared to defend a hero under attack. And, given a chance, they usually will do that very well.

This is a disappointing thread, for sure, but it doesn't reflect the way most of us Symbiostockers feel. Makes me very sad to read this stuff.

[Pilens]

Leo!  I didn't have the stomach to read much of this thread.  Just remember that for every critic you have 100's of fans.  I'm one of them.  You shouldn't have to defend yourself every time you come to visit.  And you don't have to reply to every post.

Very well said! - This thread is sooooo off-topic.