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Author Topic: Change of Plan - Symbiostock is Independent [updated]  (Read 34013 times)

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Harvepino

« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2014, 09:26 »
+5
Leo, thank you for Symbiostock and best of luck with illustrations  ;D I think the idea of SYS is a tiny little bit ahead of its time for some people to grasp. But the seed of something new had been planted, it'll keep spreading out and I'm sure that after you have a little break you'll learn to love SYS again. We'll be here improving our websites, ports and SEOs in the meantime  ;)


« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2014, 13:46 »
+1
Leo, I totally get how you have reached the point that your family has decided to walk away from this project.  But I think you are leaving money on the table.  I know you created something for ME/US.   A little circle of stock photographers all in the same position of being mistreated by our distributors and I appreciate that more than I could ever express.  Instead of retiring from this project - maybe retire from the stock photographer aspect of it (for now).  Maybe change directions and expand upon your theme to an entirely new client base.  Just looking at "photography" how many photographers are there in the world?   We work with kids, families, sell fine art, shoot events like horse shows, dance recitals, football games.  We proof school photos online.  We print posters, greeting cards and calendars and get a table at at craft shows.

I have no realistic idea how much work it is to "tweak" a theme like this to offer physical goods.  You have already got the thumbnailing and resizing down.  It might be a thought for you to make a couple themes that can rival Smugmug and sell on Themeforest/mojo-themes ?  Wouldn't the natural progression of your hard work be to (profit!) expand the client base to the huge pool of photographers and to also offer a proofing and self-fulfil ordering system for portrait work, events etc.... the ability to order physical goods -  prints of various sizes with different types of mounting - photogifts etc.   It seems like a natural progression of all your hard work that could maybe be quite profitable.

Then if that theme is successful - expand it to a marketplace for people to sell their hand knit Irish Sweaters and Comics. 

Might be a stupid suggestion and I know there is a lot of support that goes into selling themes.  But - I for one could use it, would pay for it.  I used Smugmug before they raised their prices so much and then had to comply with the withholding U.S. tax laws.  I also don't like the idea that there is a third party to those sites and I have to wait for a paycheque from them and trust that everything is being fulfilled properly and reported properly.

farbled

« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2014, 14:19 »
0
Leo, I totally get how you have reached the point that your family has decided to walk away from this project.  But I think you are leaving money on the table.  I know you created something for ME/US.   A little circle of stock photographers all in the same position of being mistreated by our distributors and I appreciate that more than I could ever express.  Instead of retiring from this project - maybe retire from the stock photographer aspect of it (for now).  Maybe change directions and expand upon your theme to an entirely new client base.  Just looking at "photography" how many photographers are there in the world?   We work with kids, families, sell fine art, shoot events like horse shows, dance recitals, football games.  We proof school photos online.  We print posters, greeting cards and calendars and get a table at at craft shows.

I have no realistic idea how much work it is to "tweak" a theme like this to offer physical goods.  You have already got the thumbnailing and resizing down.  It might be a thought for you to make a couple themes that can rival Smugmug and sell on Themeforest/mojo-themes ?  Wouldn't the natural progression of your hard work be to (profit!) expand the client base to the huge pool of photographers and to also offer a proofing and self-fulfil ordering system for portrait work, events etc.... the ability to order physical goods -  prints of various sizes with different types of mounting - photogifts etc.   It seems like a natural progression of all your hard work that could maybe be quite profitable.

Then if that theme is successful - expand it to a marketplace for people to sell their hand knit Irish Sweaters and Comics. 

Might be a stupid suggestion and I know there is a lot of support that goes into selling themes.  But - I for one could use it, would pay for it.  I used Smugmug before they raised their prices so much and then had to comply with the withholding U.S. tax laws.  I also don't like the idea that there is a third party to those sites and I have to wait for a paycheque from them and trust that everything is being fulfilled properly and reported properly.

+1, nicely put.

« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2014, 15:02 »
0
So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.

farbled

« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2014, 15:09 »
+1
So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.

Works fine for me. I have no issues at all with it. Its a great platform and does everything that I expected it to for selling my own work for my own prices. I'm staying away from the networking side of it for now. I've opted out and will depend on my own marketing successes and failures for the time being. That said, I would be interested in joining a closed group of similar niche sites to mine (mining, minerals and industrial). Anyone interested can PM me.

« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2014, 15:47 »
+7
So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.

Like all software, Symbiostock is not 100% finished and not 100% bug free - but is mostly finished and perfectly capable of selling licenses to royalty free work. Leo - the guy who did almost all the work to build it - has his irrepressible optimism repressed by a criticism or two. As Leo hasn't yet hired a PR firm to polish his every word, you get pretty direct statements from him that reflect how he's feeling.

It can sound a bit offputting, but it is mostly unrelated to how well Symbiostock is working - and there are 170+ sites up and running with 235,000+ images, so I'd say it's doing well for a new project.

If you look at all the griping about agencies here on MSG, it'd be a miracle if there were no griping about Symbiostock! Given that this is so very personal to Leo, I think he has a hard time hearing complaints and letting them run off (like the proverbial water off a duck's back).

I think the most recent specific issue was some suggestions that symbiostock.com be focused not on contributors considering building a site but on buyers; Leo had just spent a bunch of time working on revamping the site and ...

This is all just my take on it - others may see things differently - YMMV (you get the idea) :)

« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2014, 18:58 »
+1
So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.

Like all software, Symbiostock is not 100% finished and not 100% bug free - but is mostly finished and perfectly capable of selling licenses to royalty free work. Leo - the guy who did almost all the work to build it - has his irrepressible optimism repressed by a criticism or two. As Leo hasn't yet hired a PR firm to polish his every word, you get pretty direct statements from him that reflect how he's feeling.

It can sound a bit offputting, but it is mostly unrelated to how well Symbiostock is working - and there are 170+ sites up and running with 235,000+ images, so I'd say it's doing well for a new project.

If you look at all the griping about agencies here on MSG, it'd be a miracle if there were no griping about Symbiostock! Given that this is so very personal to Leo, I think he has a hard time hearing complaints and letting them run off (like the proverbial water off a duck's back).

I think the most recent specific issue was some suggestions that symbiostock.com be focused not on contributors considering building a site but on buyers; Leo had just spent a bunch of time working on revamping the site and ...

This is all just my take on it - others may see things differently - YMMV (you get the idea) :)

That is basically my take on it, too.

I just hope that Leo finds a healthier emotional distance to his brainchild Symbiostock, the community of site owners using the theme and sometimes hostile outsiders. This and his work - life balance as far as Symbiostock is concerned seems to be biggest issue right now. I really, really hope that Leo manages to work it all out for him and his family. So he can stay being a (major) part of Symbiostock and the success that Symbiostock, I have no doubts, will be with or without him.

« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2014, 05:21 »
+2
So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.

Like all software, Symbiostock is not 100% finished and not 100% bug free - but is mostly finished and perfectly capable of selling licenses to royalty free work. Leo - the guy who did almost all the work to build it - has his irrepressible optimism repressed by a criticism or two. As Leo hasn't yet hired a PR firm to polish his every word, you get pretty direct statements from him that reflect how he's feeling.

It can sound a bit offputting, but it is mostly unrelated to how well Symbiostock is working - and there are 170+ sites up and running with 235,000+ images, so I'd say it's doing well for a new project.

If you look at all the griping about agencies here on MSG, it'd be a miracle if there were no griping about Symbiostock! Given that this is so very personal to Leo, I think he has a hard time hearing complaints and letting them run off (like the proverbial water off a duck's back).

I think the most recent specific issue was some suggestions that symbiostock.com be focused not on contributors considering building a site but on buyers; Leo had just spent a bunch of time working on revamping the site and ...

This is all just my take on it - others may see things differently - YMMV (you get the idea) :)

agree completely -- the negativity comes mostly from those who probably won't participate or contribute anyway

meanwhile there are plenty of people who freely give their time to help new sites get started

plus, unlike sites like smugmug which require a significant investment, you can test drive symbiostock for only the cost of hosting (or less if you already have hosting for other projects)

« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2014, 07:07 »
0
Thanks for all the useful information/replies, considering how poorly written and buggy even big name things like photoshop really are, this all looks great to me! Sounds like Leo ran into some ungrateful whiners, and that issue got inflated into a big talking point.

StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2014, 08:13 »
+11
From our part we are very thankful to Leo for this project.

Honestly, since we became professional stock photographers in 2006, Leo has given us one of the best of the incredibly rare good news we've had in these past 8 years.

Unfortunately is so much easier to destroy than to build, and the damage the few people that do not participate and will never participate although deciding to speak about it, is very big when compared to all the thankful people that decided to join.

I cannot understand how hard some people are with Symbiostock and Leo when this project has ten million more chances to help us, than the agencies raising the prices and commissions they pay us to a fair level.

Ron

« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2014, 09:24 »
+2
Thanks for all the useful information/replies, considering how poorly written and buggy even big name things like photoshop really are, this all looks great to me! Sounds like Leo ran into some ungrateful whiners, and that issue got inflated into a big talking point.

You are calling it out but have no clue what happened. A few of Leo's biggest fans and biggest supporters of Symbiostock expressed their concerns over a change. To call them ungrateful whiners is bullsh!t.

Do you have a symbiostock site? No. Arent you part of the problem then? You dont even know these people you are accusing and what they actually said.


marthamarks

« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2014, 10:58 »
+4
Thanks for all the useful information/replies, considering how poorly written and buggy even big name things like photoshop really are, this all looks great to me! Sounds like Leo ran into some ungrateful whiners, and that issue got inflated into a big talking point.

You are calling it out but have no clue what happened. A few of Leo's biggest fans and biggest supporters of Symbiostock expressed their concerns over a change. To call them ungrateful whiners is bullsh!t.

Amen to that, Ron.

I happen to be one of Leo's biggest fans. I happen to be very proud of my Symbiostock website (now in its 8th month of existence). I happen to be delighted to be part of the Symbiostock network, as I have repeatedly said on this forum and on the dedicated Symbiostock forum.

And yet, yes, I happen to be one who publicly suggested a different course of action on ONE thing Leo had done. One item of disagreement in eight months of involvement with Symbiostock.

Does that make me an ungrateful whiner? I don't think so.

Ron is right. If you don't know anything about a subject, you shouldn't opine on it.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 11:35 by marthamarks »

« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2014, 12:10 »
+7
Martha and Ron, Leo knows who his friends are. He just had a bad day. I wouldn't give this issue any more thought. Symbiostock is in a good place and it is now being overseen by a much happier Leo. I think everyone should continue to voice their concerns and comments. That is how we will continue to grow. No-one should feel like they need to be silent for fear of reprisal. That is what symbiostock is all about. Working together to create a better solution.

marthamarks

« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2014, 12:35 »
+1
Martha and Ron, Leo knows who his friends are. He just had a bad day. I wouldn't give this issue any more thought. Symbiostock is in a good place and it is now being overseen by a much happier Leo. I think everyone should continue to voice their concerns and comments. That is how we will continue to grow. No-one should feel like they need to be silent for fear of reprisal. That is what symbiostock is all about. Working together to create a better solution.

Thanks for letting us know Leo is okay.

I'm not likely to be silent for fear of reprisal. That ain't my style.

I responded here because I didn't like being characterized as an "ungrateful whiner." That ain't my style either! ;D 

« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2014, 13:31 »
-8
It doesnt have anything to do with being an "ungrateful whiner." Some of us are business persons. I purchased most of the SY stuff. In return, I expected a wordpress theme and software that did what it was marketed to do. I have Facebook for the "friends" stuff. And some of the people I have met in business are also "friends" on Facebook. Most of the people I do business with are not.

Leo had a choice of what he wanted to sell things for. I don't know of many businesspeople who do things "out of the goodness of their heart" without getting something in return. Even the millions of dollars Bill Gates gives to foundations and scholarships provide him tax shelters, etc. Is he doing good? Yes. Is it benefitting others? You bet. But it still isn't without benefit to Gates.

The many tens of thousands of backlinks that a few people are getting from their ties to SY are their ROI. No, maybe actual sale of the SY theme doesnt make the developers money. But believe that the backlinks are driving traffic to their sites. That massive amount of traffic increases sales. The traffic that the average photographer with one website and a couple thousand images will get on SY, not so much. The positive marketing of SY must continue in order for those with the most links to continue to benefit.

My ROI was virtually nil. That means it didnt work for me. Your mileage may vary. Is that considered whining or being ungrateful? There are some here who will most definitely consider that whining. Remember all the cheerleaders at istock? Leo has his own. There are some who are in this for a business. There are some who have faith, don't care if they make sales, and are looking for a leader, a hero, someone to worship.

To each his/her own. I'd like to think my decision to cut bait and move on was based on what I want out of my business. SY was moving in a direction that had nothing to do with me and growing my business, only growing the SY name and the developer's business. Not what I had in mind.  :)


« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2014, 18:12 »
-3
Cathy... Im half with you here. But  I do not understand the link thing fully. Can you elaborate or better provide a diagram that shows the traffic as you see it?

I gave you a heart, to ballance the many minuses you have got.

Then you can give me one to outbalance what Ill get.
:-)


« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2014, 18:36 »
+7
everyones free to have their own opinion - good or bad

she explained her reason - only one sale in 8 months and no notice of difference between having a network of people vs having noone in network
therefore she left, maybe some sour grapes but meh, I can sympathize

I havent made a sale there yet, but I bought hosting for 2 years to see where it takes me. Its not a huge investment, I have blown money for far less possibilities
It takes time, patience, good images and traffic coming to the site - all of this is still very much in its infancy, so I dont have outrageous expectations, but I do appreciate that Leo has made this alternative available to everyone and anyone that wants to try it out.
As in any venture you have people that  will find great success, a few bitter disappointment , and the majority will land somewhere in between.

I appreciate this is just another option to try, as there is precious little else available for this little investment,  and it certainly is a breath of fresh air to try something different and new.

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2014, 18:44 »
+2
---

Deleted
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 19:27 by Leo »

marthamarks

« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2014, 18:51 »
0
I told myself I wouldn't come back here, but I've received so many slaps from you I figured it was finally time to really defend.

+1

And bravo, Leo, for doing that.

« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2014, 18:54 »
-6
Leo?
Who earns money on this?
Is there a link/ traffic pyramid scheme?
I asked Cathy for proof and now I asked you.
I cannot follow the links you have provided.
Maybe you are falsely accused, maybe you are somebodys means.
Who is Bluehost?


Ron

« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2014, 19:08 »
+8
Jens, get a symbiostock site and find out, or stop your bullshitting

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2014, 19:11 »
0
----

Deleted.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 19:26 by Leo »

« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2014, 19:34 »
-4
Theres that name calling again. Theres Martha to jump in. Next will be cascoly telling me how stupid i am too. So predictable.


Actually Leo you have sort of proven my point for me. If you arent gaining anything from network connections, whats the point of having them? If no one is making money on all their sites that can be attributed to the links, whats the point. You go right ahead and tell me how little i know about seo. If links dont matter, why are there so many leading to your site, and a few other people sites? Why are you guys building multiple sites and trying to recruit people to post stuff on them? The whole premise of SY was based on the networking. YOU came up with that selling point, not me. You forgot to include the caveat that it takes a whole ton of links to make a difference. Now that i know, i can see that the whole networking thing wont work for me, unless i can use you guys' strategy. Maybe someday i will have the time to build multiple sites.


I came here to express my opinion but you and yours seem to be awfully determined to negate my opinion. You cant. Its still my opinion, whether you like it or not. You can bluster and blow up your chest and engage in a little bullying yourself, it Still doesnt change my opinion. Even if you use 200 pt type!  ;)


Not sure why you are so worried. People still idolize you and people are still building sites. Seems like i must be telling the truth about something, otherwise you wouldnt be here defending and protesting so much..


I think people have a right to hear other sides of a story. If i feel like defending myself against yours, marthas and anyone elses name calling, i have that right too. Just like you. I explained why i made a business decision and why i dont consider that ungrateful whining, as one gentleman said.


There are many good things about the SY theme. I am pretty sure i have said that before. And after having built a site now using other themes and software, i can see that there are many positives about that software too. I dont need the networkng stuff, especially since it doesnt seem to be working for me or you (according to you) or many others.


Thanks for posting the links. You have reaffirmed that my decision was the right one for me.


Leo Blanchette

« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2014, 19:35 »
+4
Enough of you have seen the reality of the accusations I get, and the lack of weight they actually have. Still, I'm deleting my replies because its rarely a good idea to put up personal analytics. But its obvious to those who could see at least for a while, its not the traffic generating scheme that disillusioned people might imply.

Truth be told Symbiostock will not thrive in the pond it hatched from. Too many piranas in it. Were it not for the trolling, I suspect it might have gone much further. Still the trial-by-fire has had it's benefits.

In a nutshell:

I've actually done worse since creating Symbiostock. I guess its called paying my dues as a startup. So finally when I do break even, I will not have to apologize. When I get ahead, it will have been fair.

« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2014, 19:42 »
0
everyones free to have their own opinion - good or bad

she explained her reason - only one sale in 8 months and no notice of difference between having a network of people vs having noone in network
therefore she left, maybe some sour grapes but meh, I can sympathize

I havent made a sale there yet, but I bought hosting for 2 years to see where it takes me. Its not a huge investment, I have blown money for far less possibilities
It takes time, patience, good images and traffic coming to the site - all of this is still very much in its infancy, so I dont have outrageous expectations, but I do appreciate that Leo has made this alternative available to everyone and anyone that wants to try it out.
As in any venture you have people that  will find great success, a few bitter disappointment , and the majority will land somewhere in between.

I appreciate this is just another option to try, as there is precious little else available for this little investment,  and it certainly is a breath of fresh air to try something different and new.


I totally agree with you. SY was a shot, i took it. More than anyone else offered at the time. And if your "bitter disappointment" words were directed at me, i am not bitter. I am actually happy with the site i have now. I like the   features it has, and glad i made the move. I learned alot about wordpress building the SY site.


 

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