pancakes

MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Symbiostock script - VAT, TAX question  (Read 7808 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2013, 10:52 »
+2
There are only two working solutions to idiotic EU VAT rules and only one is legal:

1)  Dont give a * about the customer, simply sell it and if somebody asks, then tell all your customers were outside EU. This is risky and illegal way but I bet many ppl will do it this way.

2) Start a company in some offshore country or somewhere without VAT and well outside potential reach of EU stupid ideas. Then for example LLC on Seychelles has separate bookkeeping and you put only real personal income from that company into your tax papers. As long as it is outside EU and you do not go into thousands of euros monthly, nobody cares.

Real legal solution of being registered VAT tax payer will result in so many programing problems and so much paperwork, that each photo would cost a fortune. It is simply not possible to fullfill all stupid requirements...


« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 11:31 »
+1
As I am unlikely (unfortunately) to reach 79,000 this year or next year there is no requirement yet, as I understand the UK  site to register for VAT

Ron

« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2013, 12:06 »
0
As I am unlikely (unfortunately) to reach 79,000 this year or next year there is no requirement yet, as I understand the UK  site to register for VAT
75000 euro in Ireland. I think you are correct, as I think the same. I will be doing my first tax report this year and I will be double checking with the tax man about this.

« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2013, 13:30 »
-2
There are only two working solutions to idiotic EU VAT rules and only one is legal:

1)  Dont give a * about the customer, simply sell it and if somebody asks, then tell all your customers were outside EU. This is risky and illegal way but I bet many ppl will do it this way.

2) Start a company in some offshore country or somewhere without VAT and well outside potential reach of EU stupid ideas. Then for example LLC on Seychelles has separate bookkeeping and you put only real personal income from that company into your tax papers. As long as it is outside EU and you do not go into thousands of euros monthly, nobody cares.

Real legal solution of being registered VAT tax payer will result in so many programing problems and so much paperwork, that each photo would cost a fortune. It is simply not possible to fullfill all stupid requirements...

This is very poor advice in general :)

The rights and wrongs of tax law are not something which should affect your decision making process when it comes to setting up a business which is potentially going to trade with companies and individuals in other jurisdictions. There is no point in moaning about the EU. The same as there is no point people outside the US moaning about US sales taxes, withholding taxes etc. Your customers surely need to know that your sites are compliant.

At this stage this is potentially more of an issue for US and other non EU people since some EU countries allow a turnover threshold of, I think, 35k for online services including online image sales. AFAIK the higher thresholds where applicable are typically for physical sales. But all the countries are likely to be different so you would need to check.

It makes no difference where you company is based - whether in the US or offshore. Your website needs to be compliant with international norms. That means building a shopping cart which bills the customer properly and issues a proper receipt. Apart from all of the other implications your customers' accountants are going to need to see those receipts.

Surely the simplest thing is to get the correct advice as a group and then build a shopping cart which is universally compliant ? And updated as legislation evolves.
 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 13:33 by bhr »

stocked

« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 14:20 »
+1
Really relax just ask your local tax office it's in their own interest to help you, after all you bring money into your/their country.  :D

« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 14:32 »
-2
Really relax just ask your local tax office it's in their own interest to help you, after all you bring money into your/their country.  :D

It's not about the tax you pay. It's about the tax your customers pay.

Your local tax office in, say, the US will not be able to give you advice about how you can make your site compliant with EU and other international regulations - nor in general with how the regulations of other countries affect the ability of customers on those countries to do business with you. Non EU sites are required to charged VAT.

It's like (this is an analogy - it's not the same as) ... Your business can buy a box of cheap XYZ widgets wholesale from China on Ali or any similar b2b site. The Chinese govt do not care that these items have not been taxed in your country - but your accountant and your govt will.

stocked

« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 15:12 »
+1
Well okay that would be much more complicated but is it really necessary? Just follow the VAT-Rules for your country (inside and foreign exchange) should be enough in my opinion.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2013, 01:14 »
+1
Just follow the VAT-Rules for your country (inside and foreign exchange) should be enough in my opinion.

Problem is that in some countries those laws and other laws regarding this are so complicated and even contradictory to each other (!!!) that they make it nearly impossible to run direct selling store that is selling virtual goods to customers that can be based in every possible country. Because for 99.99% people/businesses from country like mine, it is simply not worth possible problems and big penalties from authorities that could running of own Symbiostock store bring. If you want you can read everything what I wrote to this thread in my previous posts (yes, I realize it is long) if you still dont understand after that, than I really dont know what more to say to it.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 01:19 by jareso »

« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2013, 08:05 »
0
Voted down for stating facts and / or pointing to information which requires further research. What ho!

The simple fact remains that US and other non EU sites are required to charge VAT if your customer is in an EU country. Your customer is normally going to need to submit proper receipts at the end of the tax year.

It is exactly the same for software developers.

Surely the easiest way of addressing this is to build a universally compliant shopping cart.

Spectral-Design.net

« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2013, 08:21 »
0
This Issue is for me not (yet) a real problem but in the long run the script has to address this as many other things. I think symbiostock will mature on the way like many other projects did...

« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2014, 17:06 »
+4
Ok, I know this is an old thread, but it's still relevant.

We're running in to similar issues you've all been posting, but getting this tax thing sorted out is a necessity for us, as it's required by law. (as it's required for all symbiostock site owners within the EU, who also have a business registration and VAT number!)

We've done the ground work, and worked out what information is required EU wide, together with our tax guy, and are willing to invest in developing a plugin, that enables this.

Here's the rough breakdown of the rules (see also at the end of this thread:

1. When registering, a EU customer needs to be able to register with his/her full company details:
- Company Name
- Company Address
- Country
- Contact information
- VAT number (can be verified during registration for EU customers)

2. The above information will also need to be stored for the site owner, if the Symbiostock site is registered to a company within the EU. (But this is also good practice for anyone else!)

3. A settings page, containing three (!) different VAT percentages, only applicable for EU symbiostock sites.. Although this is not quite relevant for 2014, the rules are likely to change in 2015, which'll make three VAT percentages necessary.

4. When a purchase is made, the system needs to run through the following script:
a. Is the customer a company? If no, then VAT %1. (regardless of location). If yes, then:
b. Is the customer from the same country as the site owner? If yes, then VAT %1. Else:
c. Is the customer from another country within the EU as the site owner? If yes, then VAT %2. Else:
d. The company is from outside the EU. Then VAT %3.

5. After payment is made, both EU site owner as well as all (EU) customers need to be able to access a PDF invoice / receipt. (either via download, or via email) This PDF invoice needs to display:

Transaction date
Full Sellers information
Full Buyers' information
Transaction statement: Item, Item type
Sales price, excluding VAT
Appropriate VAT %
The addition of Sales price + (sales price * VAT%)
Transaction statement: Paid

We're looking to cooperate with anyone for whom this is also relevant, and is willing to help out. Please send me a PM, or reply to this email in case you're interested!
- Can you code? We can co-develop.
- Do you know someone who would be interested in developing such a plugin or child theme? We're willing to pay (within reason, of course ;))
- Can you attribute in any other way?
- Would you be willing to purchase a plugin that enables this feature?

I'll be away on vacation until early march, but will check in from time to time, and reply when necessary.

Cheers,

Hugo

« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2014, 19:25 »
0
We would be interested in buying such a plugin, as long as it can be configured for the slightly less onerous New Zealand/Australian tax requirements.

We need to label the tax GST and not VAT. Also, customers don't have to give their tax registration number.

Otherwise, sounds good!


« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2014, 19:58 »
0
Looks like Leo has started to address this over at symbiostock.org. Not much detail. I doubt it will be part of the theme though. Probably some sort of paid plugin.

« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2014, 20:21 »
0
Looks like Leo has started to address this over at symbiostock.org. Not much detail. I doubt it will be part of the theme though. Probably some sort of paid plugin.

Hi Dennis,

Yes, it looks like it. I've contacted Leo via the user forum over at Symbiostock. All current details are in this thread anyway. Several symbiostock owners have a (legal) need for such a plugin, and both this thread as well as the one on symbiostock.org provide all the details, wishes and requirements necessary.

I presume you're US based, and will not have much use for such a plugin. Nice looking site you have, though. Really dig your style and the way you target your market..

Cheers,

Hugo

« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2014, 20:27 »
0
Thanks. I really love this project. I had some success with it which is nice but I really see it as a step in the right direction. Contributors need to step up and take some control of their own futures. There are a lot of ways to do it but Symbiostock is definitely a good start. It is also refreshing to see other people like yourself taking an interest and actually making something happen. This will be good for a lot of people.

« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2014, 20:39 »
0
Thanks. I really love this project. I had some success with it which is nice but I really see it as a step in the right direction. Contributors need to step up and take some control of their own futures. There are a lot of ways to do it but Symbiostock is definitely a good start. It is also refreshing to see other people like yourself taking an interest and actually making something happen. This will be good for a lot of people.


That's the attitude, and I fully concur :)

Reading back to bunill's comment, it seems the issue is even more global, as it also applies (to a certain extend) to non-EU based sites dealing with EU customers. Can anyone confirm this?

« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2014, 22:28 »
0
Thanks. I really love this project. I had some success with it which is nice but I really see it as a step in the right direction. Contributors need to step up and take some control of their own futures. There are a lot of ways to do it but Symbiostock is definitely a good start. It is also refreshing to see other people like yourself taking an interest and actually making something happen. This will be good for a lot of people.


That's the attitude, and I fully concur :)

Reading back to bunill's comment, it seems the issue is even more global, as it also applies (to a certain extend) to non-EU based sites dealing with EU customers. Can anyone confirm this?


I am Canadian. I don't see why I should charge VAT from EU customers. After all, what am I supposed to do with that money? I don't have any tax dues over in Europe.

However, I can see that an European customer of my site would like me to send a proper sale's receipt that clearly states that no VAT has been paid so that it is easier for them dealing with their tax authorities.

But I am no tax expert, either   ;)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 22:31 by Pilens »

cascoly

  • Photography, travel & online games at cascoly.com

« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2014, 19:39 »
0
As I am unlikely (unfortunately) to reach 79,000 this year or next year there is no requirement yet, as I understand the UK  site to register for VAT

does this hold for the other EU countries?  if there is a minimum amount for each before VAT becomes a requirement, then this would simplify setup for many sym sites.  and for the co-op sites i'm setting up, I doubt anyone making that much in sales would be jong the co-op since this is designed more for smaller sites that don't want the hassle of setting up paypal, etc

« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2014, 19:56 »
0
does this hold for the other EU countries?  if there is a minimum amount for each before VAT becomes a requirement, then this would simplify setup for many sym sites.  and for the co-op sites i'm setting up, I doubt anyone making that much in sales would be jong the co-op since this is designed more for smaller sites that don't want the hassle of setting up paypal, etc

The co-op's accountant is going to be the best person to talk to.  Though presumably the total income of the business (i.e. the co-op) will be the issue. Not the total income of the individual partners.

« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2014, 20:40 »
0
as it also applies (to a certain extend) to non-EU based sites dealing with EU customers. Can anyone confirm this?


this document tries to explain it. It was linked to from the US govt site export.gov where there are also other relevant documents.

It doesn't make it all any simpler IMO. If anything it serves to show how frustratingly complicated international compliance and avoidance regulation is becoming.


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1506 Views
Last post November 15, 2009, 10:10
by nicemonkey
1 Replies
4644 Views
Last post March 21, 2013, 09:47
by Sean Locke Photography
3 Replies
2583 Views
Last post May 11, 2013, 04:16
by jeancliclac
31 Replies
3444 Views
Last post August 12, 2013, 02:09
by jorgophotography
7 Replies
1306 Views
Last post March 24, 2016, 09:16
by Chichikov

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors