Author Topic: What's holding you back from joining Symbiostock? (Read 77237 times)

JPSDK · « **Reply #100 on:** July 16, 2013, 04:21 »

[/quote]

Just wanted to quote/capture this before it changes.
[/quote]

Why is that?

JPSDK · « **Reply #101 on:** July 16, 2013, 04:28 »

Quote from: Tinny on July 16, 2013, 04:16

I do not have a clue who jpsdk is but admits they are a sad individual by their own admission

It is so easy to attack and belittle a concept, especially something that is so new. It is much harder to actually put some effort in and make it work as many of us are doing.

Edit. corrected spelling error

This is me: http://www.stolt.dk/
I do not belitlle the concept, but I am actually belittling the framework and the direction the site drifts. You do need to pull yourself together.
You call it sandbox and testing and development. BUT for god heavens sake, you need an clear idea to work towards. As it is now, you are working away from the idea.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #102 on:** July 16, 2013, 04:33 »

Quote from: JPSDK on July 16, 2013, 04:28

Quote from: Tinny on July 16, 2013, 04:16
I do not have a clue who jpsdk is but admits they are a sad individual by their own admission

It is so easy to attack and belittle a concept, especially something that is so new. It is much harder to actually put some effort in and make it work as many of us are doing.

Edit. corrected spelling error

This is me: http://www.stolt.dk/
I do not belitlle the concept, but I am actually belittling the framework and the direction the site drifts. You do need to pull yourself together.
You call it sandbox and testing and development. BUT for god heavens sake, you need an clear idea to work towards. As it is now, you are working away from the idea.

This project does have a clear goal and idea to work towards. Its your lack of knowledge of those things (edit, goals, ideas) which seems to have given you this passionate need to tear it down.

Anyway, I'm done for the night. Have fun

plrang · « **Reply #103 on:** July 16, 2013, 04:47 »

Symbiostock idea is to be independend and WORK for yourself.
Waiting for things to be "done for me" is not incorporated into the engine

Personally I think it's too early for this kind of discussion

JPSDK · « **Reply #104 on:** July 16, 2013, 05:00 »

Quote from: plrang on July 16, 2013, 04:47

Symbiostock idea is to be independend and WORK for yourself.
Waiting for things to be "done for me" is not incorporated into the engine

Personally I think it's too early for this kind of discussion

be independend and WORK for yourself[/b
If that is the idea, then you are directly on the course.

And you miss the symbiosis part, where you attract customers because many photographers together can provide competitive content.
Im not trying to pull things apart. Im just saying that you need a frame on top of all the individual sites. The photog sites are fine as they are, but they are mostly irrelevant for sales.

I dont know if sales are part of your goal, but they are part of mine, and therefor I take customers quite seriously.

plrang · « **Reply #105 on:** July 16, 2013, 05:11 »

Nope, "be independend and WORK for yourself" doesn't exclude the networking part in any way. It's related to work for you as an indyvidual.

Work for YOU /with others vs work for others - alone

By enabling the network you're (I'm) already participating, so that's the course right?

JPSDK · « **Reply #106 on:** July 16, 2013, 05:24 »

The excisting structure undermines the networking possibilites and harms the concept.
along with multiple prices, sizes and licenses not to mention payment.

I have said it all before in my earlier posts.

You might feel you do a lot of networking, but when the customer cannot benifit from the symbiosis among the photograper its all meaningless.

All the personal photographers shops a nice, and a fine place to link to, when you have someone interested in buying pictures.
But they are not important if photographers want to have mass sales out of the symbiostock platform and want symbiostock to compete with the agencies.

plrang · « **Reply #107 on:** July 16, 2013, 05:30 »

@JPSDK just create a plugin and fix that issue, change the rules, seems you know what's wrong.
It's an Open Source project, feel free to join

luissantos84 · « **Reply #108 on:** July 16, 2013, 05:41 »

its amazing how a person can enter a topic and try to pull down such a great creation by Leo and hard work from all members afterwards, Symbio started a few months ago if not more so if you want to be part of it and join discussion you should have started reading/critiquing a long time ago, if you really wish to do so now at least try to have some manners and critique properly without trowing sticks and stones

this is what it is sad Jens

travelwitness · « **Reply #109 on:** July 16, 2013, 06:04 »

If Symbistock (any project) is to succeed you can't shy away from criticism, some of it is valid, some of its not so important - It all helps with refinement.

I don't see anyone being particularly negative, just expressing what they would like to see it become, which is no bad thing.

JPSDK · « **Reply #110 on:** July 16, 2013, 06:05 »

Isnt it amazing? Luis, Im ambitious and blunt.

Its in due time, so people dont have to redo all their work, plus getting used to how things are.

I would actually like to help, also with work, I would very much like to help with pulling symbiostock in a competitive direction. They concept is highly competitive, but it needs a couple of layers on top.

I have the following suggestions:

Form a board, that decides for the whole symbiostock platform.
register the company in a reliable country.
Elect a chairman with procura.
Buy the trademark
make sure you have the rights to the code.
redirect from all symbio, info, bizz and whatever to .com
collect all registring and paying on the front page, evt pay a progammer to do this.
standardize everything, even layout in the separate shops to a degree.
set a launch date and describe milestones on the way.
redelegate PR and SEO to members or a dedicated group
redelegate design to members or a dedicated group
make forums for workgroups or cooperate via skype multiuser.

Ron · « **Reply #111 on:** July 16, 2013, 06:29 »

I am sorry Jens, I like you and all that, but I think you are missing the point of Symbiostock completely.

You want to turn it into a controlled and managed place, IE an agency, in whatever form you see it.

The whole idea is to get away from that controlled and greedy environment.

What you are talking about already exists, PicturEngine if it ever goes live/.

JPSDK · « **Reply #112 on:** July 16, 2013, 06:41 »

Good answer Ron.

The only thing I want is to make (or hope for) symbiostock to be able to compete with the agencies so that we can get rid of those middlemen. I think the concept in it self is highly competitive and is the way in the future.

Then I state some my personal ideas of what it would take.

The middlemen only holds their position because they managed to establish a new way of trade when technology was up front, they were smart at a certain time. Symbiostock might be the smart move at this time, when technology is available for everybody. Also the "take piss factor" applies. We have been taken enough piss on, and when people have suffered that too much, they group together and make revolutions.

cathyslife · « **Reply #113 on:** July 16, 2013, 06:41 »

Quote from: JPSDK on July 16, 2013, 06:05

Isnt it amazing? Luis, Im ambitious and blunt.

Its in due time, so people dont have to redo all their work, plus getting used to how things are.

I would actually like to help, also with work, I would very much like to help with pulling symbiostock in a competitive direction. They concept is highly competitive, but it needs a couple of layers on top.

I have the following suggestions:

Form a board, that decides for the whole symbiostock platform.
register the company in a reliable country.
Elect a chairman with procura.
Buy the trademark
make sure you have the rights to the code.
redirect from all symbio, info, bizz and whatever to .com
collect all registring and paying on the front page, evt pay a progammer to do this.
standardize everything, even layout in the separate shops to a degree.
set a launch date and describe milestones on the way.
redelegate PR and SEO to members or a dedicated group
redelegate design to members or a dedicated group
make forums for workgroups or cooperate via skype multiuser.

I am on board with making changes so the buying experience is streamlined. But if it turns into what you describe above, i am out. Because once there is a board, that board will expect compensation. Once money can be collected all in one place and someone as control, we have just another agency. Then i would be out.

I really like the idea of groups of people forming smaller hubs and setting up some basic similarities, tho. Sounds like that could work.

grsphoto · « **Reply #114 on:** July 16, 2013, 06:42 »

Quote from: JPSDK on July 16, 2013, 06:05

I have the following suggestions:

Form a board, that decides for the whole symbiostock platform.
register the company in a reliable country.
Elect a chairman with procura.
Buy the trademark
make sure you have the rights to the code.
redirect from all symbio, info, bizz and whatever to .com
collect all registring and paying on the front page, evt pay a progammer to do this.
standardize everything, even layout in the separate shops to a degree.
set a launch date and describe milestones on the way.
redelegate PR and SEO to members or a dedicated group
redelegate design to members or a dedicated group
make forums for workgroups or cooperate via skype multiuser.

Great Ideas. Do it! you can use the Symbiostock code as a starting point to create this new entity.

In order for this to work, someone has get the ball rolling. For funding you could try a kick start type campaign.

Symbiostock, as it is, exists because of one person doing it. If you think that an organization is needed to take it to the next level then someone has to step up to make it happen.

JPSDK · « **Reply #115 on:** July 16, 2013, 06:56 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 16, 2013, 06:41

Quote from: JPSDK on July 16, 2013, 06:05
Isnt it amazing? Luis, Im ambitious and blunt.

Its in due time, so people dont have to redo all their work, plus getting used to how things are.

I would actually like to help, also with work, I would very much like to help with pulling symbiostock in a competitive direction. They concept is highly competitive, but it needs a couple of layers on top.

I have the following suggestions:

Form a board, that decides for the whole symbiostock platform.
register the company in a reliable country.
Elect a chairman with procura.
Buy the trademark
make sure you have the rights to the code.
redirect from all symbio, info, bizz and whatever to .com
collect all registring and paying on the front page, evt pay a progammer to do this.
standardize everything, even layout in the separate shops to a degree.
set a launch date and describe milestones on the way.
redelegate PR and SEO to members or a dedicated group
redelegate design to members or a dedicated group
make forums for workgroups or cooperate via skype multiuser.

I am on board with making changes so the buying experience is streamlined. But if it turns into what you describe above, i am out. Because once there is a board, that board will expect compensation. Once money can be collected all in one place and someone as control, we have just another agency. Then i would be out.

I really like the idea of groups of people forming smaller hubs and setting up some basic similarities, tho. Sounds like that could work.

You raise 2 serious problems.
Boards who sit and administer money, tend to end up with paying to themselves. Boards do that over time when not controlled. It always ends with cousins and trips to tropical islands. Control is important, and must be built into the system.
Therefore you assemble the board under a foundation that explicitly states that board members can not be paid. I have been in many boards and there are sets of foundations to prevent exactly that. You add control and consequenses. Which is police.

Same with control of the money stream. Usually it takes two independant people to press the button, but it can be even more democratised as the money can be kept completely out of reach of the board. Which I would highly recommend. An automated process, so that the money stream never enters the Symbiostock main site but goes directly to the photographers.

plrang · « **Reply #116 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:15 »

@JPSDK

read something about Symbiostock idea first... please, you just don't get it, but you really want to help

Ron · « **Reply #117 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:16 »

Sorry guys, if there is going to be a controlled environment than I am out too. I will disconnect my site from the network.

I think we need to get back to the OP as its a good question.

BrianM · « **Reply #118 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:19 »

Have to agree with a lot of what JPSDK says.

While I don't know much about Sym, I've been hopeful about it's potential since I saw the early threads popping up. It absolutely needs some standardization (doesn't have to be centrally enforced, but perhaps by agreement for people that join a certain hub, and probably that hub with good pricing and licencing and checkout would become the dominant fork). Standard pricing and license would be a huge benefit to buyers. All stock sites need to think about the customer. I've been talking with many designers lately and they hate the pricing complexity at many sites. Some who haven't heard of P5 yet loose all enthusiasm when I tell them photographers set their own price. They don't want to find pics only to find they aren't in budget.

I'm also a huge fan of Open Source software! Implementing Linux and other F/LOSS was a big part of my first profession. Believe me, Linus Torvalds (father of Linux) has completely shredded people working on his projects and there have been some very ugly debates. In the end, criticism and hashing things out made the software more reliable and they absolutely worked towards standards too. Any complaints about Sym should be welcomed and considered. They may be dismissed after good thought/discussion but just saying something is open and new and waving away criticism won't lead to a strong product.

Best of luck to the Symbiostock idea and development! I am very glad people are trying to push it forward!

Ron · « **Reply #119 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:24 »

Well, thats the beauty of Symbiostock, I can do what I want, and you can do what you want. If you want a controlled environment, standards, similarity and all that, just set up your own sites, with like minded people and set the standards in your own network.

Its all there for the taking, but I think why people are on board now is because it isnt a controlled environment. The freedom and 100% royalties is what people got enthusiastic about it.

JPSDK · « **Reply #120 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:30 »

Quote from: plrang on July 16, 2013, 07:15

@JPSDK

read something about Symbiostock idea first... please, you just don't get it, but you really want to help

Where? link me up, please?

JPSDK · « **Reply #121 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:34 »

Quote from: Ron on July 16, 2013, 07:24

Well, thats the beauty of Symbiostock, I can do what I want, and you can do what you want. If you want a controlled environment, standards, similarity and all that, just set up your own sites, with like minded people and set the standards in your own network.

Its all there for the taking, but I think why people are on board now is because it isnt a controlled environment. The freedom and 100% royalties is what people got enthusiastic about it.

ja, its all nice and easy. And you can sit where you use to and have strange habits.

But are there sales?
Can symbiostock challenge the agencies?
Which is what it is about in my understanding.

steheap · « **Reply #122 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:34 »

Well, as an avid Symbio site owner, I thinks Jens does actually talk a lot of sense about customer behavior, and his thoughts have been put across carefully and without any attacks, so I think we need to think carefully about what he says, and also about our own experience as buyers (if we have some). Symbio is great as a way to get your own images available online in a form you like, at a price you would like to receive. Having said that, unless it becomes a vanity site, it must also start to sell, regularly. Perhaps a buyer that finds my site will come back and buy a second and third time - I'm not sure as that scenario assumes that their needs for the second and third image is met by my site. If it is met elsewhere in the network, then they start the process again with registration and purchase and a new set of images in a new download location.

We have a great start here, but lets think carefully about all the implications of our approach on that buyer - maybe just having a common registration approach where the buyer can log into all our sites with one login would be a big step forward?

Steve

SLP_London · « **Reply #123 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:46 »

Common licensing and common pricing are two separate things.

Licensing can be complicated and I can imagine buyers being cautious and extremely reluctant about having to read a whole lot of waffle for every image purchase from independent sellers, each with their own terms.

Pricing on the other hand is simple. One glance and you see the price. I can't see any problem with that part. If it's too expensive, too bad, the buyer can move on and find something cheaper. If it's too expensive but the buyer really really likes the image, well hey, maybe they'll just splash out and treat themselves. Just like real shopping.

travelwitness · « **Reply #124 on:** July 16, 2013, 07:52 »

Absolutely agree some standardisation needs to settle in.

Search hub / site will be key to its success.
There should be some very basic entry requirements to link to it. Entry to it could be as simple seeing a portfolio at any other library. People misbehaving with spam ads, dropping in explicit photo's etc should be blocked from the central search site.

Ultimately I would like to see become like WordPress with many developers picking it up and throwing back out as Open Source.

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Author Topic: What's holding you back from joining Symbiostock? (Read 77237 times)

JPSDK

JPSDK

Leo Blanchette

plrang

JPSDK

plrang

JPSDK

plrang

luissantos84

travelwitness

JPSDK

Ron

JPSDK

cathyslife

grsphoto

JPSDK

plrang

Ron

BrianM

Ron

JPSDK

JPSDK

steheap

SLP_London

travelwitness

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