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Author Topic: 123RF Serves Termination Notice to Pixmac  (Read 25274 times)

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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2011, 08:05 »
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The answer to your question is yes, most definitely, but pixmac hasn't been behaving according to the terms of the API program. You could email pixmac directly and demand your images be removed immediately. I had to do that.

May I ask you where do you source such information? We are fully behaving according the terms of the API. Termination notice comes prior to the actual termination date.


« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2011, 08:06 »
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How long should we wait until we as contributors must fight with Pixmax to get our images removed?

You can either write an email to 123RF or to Pixmac ([email protected]) and your porfolio will be deleted immediately (before the terminaton actually happens).

« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2011, 08:08 »
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I've never uploaded any of my photos to Pixmac, never the less I find a large amount of my portfolio there...Now a silly question to Alex @ 123rf, should it be the responsibility of the contributors to contact Pixmac and fight to have their photos removed from their site, or should it be the responsibility of 123rf, Dreamstime etc. to make sure all photos are removed from the site?

You can contact either 123RF or Pixmac. We will remove your images immediately upon request.

« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2011, 08:11 »
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Come on 123rf etc. you guys place our photos there not us, so you should be responsible to make sure there not on those sites anymore once you stop doing business with them, its only fair DON'T YOU THINK?...Provide the transparency as well as taking the responsibility of protecting your contributors.  

We are trying to be transparent and obviously all the parties involved want to be secure. So if you have any particular problems with the partnership, please contact us directly and we will explain any issues you might have. Re-selling is an usual way of making money in Traditional RF and worked well for years.

« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2011, 08:12 »
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I got the same e-mail today. I want my images removed from Pixmac but stay in the PP at 123RF.

Thank you Wolf for being honest.


lisafx

« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2011, 09:40 »
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I got the same letter from 123RF.  We are being told two completely different things.  Anglee from 123 tells us Pixmac is no longer a partner, but Eric at support tells us something completely different.

@zager - I would really like to believe you that there is no problem with Pixmac.  My goal is to make money and removing a legitimate agency that sells my images and pays me acceptably for that is not in my best interest.  But please don't blame contributors for being concerned after three of your major affiliates have severed their relationships with you claiming some sort of fraud. 

If you really haven't been caching and reselling images without payment to your  partners or contributors, then you need to work it out with DT, FT, and 123, because that's the rumor, and it is pretty persuasive IMO. 

« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2011, 10:21 »
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@zager - I would really like to believe you that there is no problem with Pixmac.  My goal is to make money and removing a legitimate agency that sells my images and pays me acceptably for that is not in my best interest.  But please don't blame contributors for being concerned after three of your major affiliates have severed their relationships with you claiming some sort of fraud.  

If you really haven't been caching and reselling images without payment to your  partners or contributors, then you need to work it out with Dreamstime, Fotolia, and 123, because that's the rumor, and it is pretty persuasive IMO.  


Well, as I've explained in our company blog (http://blog.pixmac.com/2394/explanation-of-single-purchase/). The reasons for all the three agencies were different.

Unfortunately, I cant mention the company names, due to the nature of the legal processes. But the information was in the blogpost above. This is how it all happened:

As for the first agency that discontinued contract with us, the reason was that both companies are competitors in a certain country. And as we acquired the photographers content from a closing company in that country the situation got difficult with the first agency.

The second agency made an allegation after that independently. And we're working that out with them = explaining everything.

The third agency was a result of domino effect. In other words a mixture of loud photographers on forums, unclear information at that time etc. It was a security step on their side as they dont want to loose photographers (And I understand that). There was no other issue (technical or legal) such as the allegation of the second agency because of which it all happened. We are currently in the termination period with the third company.

No other partner (out of 20+) terminated a contract with us.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 10:23 by zager »


[email protected]

« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2011, 10:31 »
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I got the same letter from 123RF.  We are being told two completely different things.  Anglee from 123 tells us Pixmac is no longer a partner, but Eric at support tells us something completely different.

@zager - I would really like to believe you that there is no problem with Pixmac.  My goal is to make money and removing a legitimate agency that sells my images and pays me acceptably for that is not in my best interest.  But please don't blame contributors for being concerned after three of your major affiliates have severed their relationships with you claiming some sort of fraud. 

If you really haven't been caching and reselling images without payment to your  partners or contributors, then you need to work it out with Dreamstime, Fotolia, and 123, because that's the rumor, and it is pretty persuasive IMO. 

Very well said Lisa, those are my feelings and observations as well, thanks for this post.

« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2011, 10:39 »
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Dear Contributors,

Kindly take note that we have sent a Termination Notice to Pixmac as an API Partner.

Thank you very much.

Alex.

Hi everyone,

I wanted to stand up and say some words as Pixmac "country manager".  First just so that my position is clear to everyone:

- I do not have my own database but sell from Pixmac website - so no need for anyone to be scared of yet another source having your pix in some database that you are not aware of
- I am not employed by Pixmac but do run my own business through which I only represent Pixmac in my country
- I have no other access to any Pixmac database images than through a purchase made. So when one of my customers buys an image, it is direct purchase from Pixmac database, or if the image in question is in Pixmac via some contributor API, it is direct purchase from that contributor. All customers are registered to Pixmac database, and can buy and download images only through registration in Pixmac database. The same goes with myself; if I download some pix, I must pay for it to Pixmac. This means that even in marketing I am forced to use only preview files with watermark, because of which it is not possible to make print advertising, unless I buy the images.
- I have very long past in image industry so I know all possible rules about photographers' rights, copyright law etc so I am not just someone "selling from bedroom" in hope of making quick and easy money

It is great pity that 123RF has decided to leave Pixmac. It is also pity for the photographers as I know how many 123RF images I have sold in my country alone, and I also know the monthly sales overall have been very good, and the sales have been growing every single month. So many photographers will now loose money. I can also tell that Pixmac has not been allowed to show or tell anywhere on their website that 123RF images were sold by Pixmac. When 123RF came to Pixmac, I immediately asked if I can launch that representation in my Pixmac blog, or if we could get the License visible on Pixmac license page - but unfortunately it was forbidden by 123RF. So please, do not blame Pixmac team for not having shown that info anywhere.

I have naturally asked for the reason of this termination from Pixmac, for the sake of my own business. It is NOT because of any misuse of API. There are NO sales that were not reported. The only reason is the photographers who have been demanding this; because of the one and only unfortunate case with payments of another supplier, it was nasty but human mistake made by a technical guy. I agree that mistake like this should not happen, I have also said that to Pixmac, but hey, is here someone who could honestly say no mistakes happen? I would love to be able to say I am perfect and never make any mistakes but unfortunately I can not. Pixmac came up and admitted they had made the mistake, they corrected the technical error asap, and made sure they paid everything they owed.

I believe it would be fair if Alex could/would confirm this instead of letting you guys to think there is some dishonesty of Pixmac behind the termination.

The contract is valid till the end of March so that is why your pictures still are on Pixmac website. At the moment only termination notice has been sent, there always is some notice time in cases like this, that is common contractual term.

I have no access to Pixmac payment and/or reporting tools but I have made multiple questions to Pixmac about these cases. And I got answers that I can believe in. My trust is also based on the co-operation that I have had with Pixmac. If they would have given me any reason to have some doubts, I would have them and would have acted accordingly. I am sure dishonesty of any kind would have come visible to me during the time I have been selling Pixmac - please remember they owe me money every single month, and not once has there been delay or any "technical" or other kind of error in reporting or payments. I am daily in connection with the Pixmac head office; making question, making suggestions so I have learned to know the guys pretty well. Among Pixmac TMs there are many image industry professionals who share their knowledge with Pixmac and develop the agency together with Pixmac. That means we make demanding questions and requests all the time too - and act as watchdogs to Pixmac too. So in fact in Pixmac system there are many more "big brothers" watching what they are doing than in those agencies that have their own staff only.

I already know what kind of replies some of you will send to this topic. So I just say that I was not asked or told by anyone in Pixmac to write this. In fact I take a risk here because they might not even like me to do this - but I take that risk. Because I feel sorry for not being able to push your images in 123RF database anymore, because you will loose money now, because it is such a pity this microstock industry has made so many people to think there are thieves behind every single corner, and because it seems to be ok to send "words flowing on the sky" instead of never telling the whole truth.

And by the way, my name is Merja and I can be reached at [email protected] - I have no reason to hide myself behind nickname.
Take care!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 11:04 by Penguin »

« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2011, 12:58 »
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I believe it would be fair if Alex could/would confirm this instead of letting you guys to think there is some dishonesty of Pixmac behind the termination.

Alex, I know you as an honest open guy so I do not get it when you are so not transparent about the reason 123RF is ending the coorporation.
It makes me think there are no mistakes meade by Pixmac but 123RF is affraid their contributors will leave because they believe Pixmac should burn.
Witchhunt is one of the first terms that spings to mind.

Frenk

« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2011, 13:15 »
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I disagree with this. I think after what happened with Bigstock people are a bit freaked. I like money. I will be uploading my 4000 images directly to Pixmac so they can represent my work.  I may be the naive one of this group but I'm going to be the guinea pig, I guess.  I think things have domino'd out of control, I tend to believe people and I do agree that at this point it's a bit of a witchhunt.

lisafx

« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2011, 13:26 »
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Thanks Zager, and Merja for your detailed accounts of what's going on.  Hope you will attempt to understand the concerns of contributors.  We are given very little information about where and how our pictures are being represented, so we tend to be very wary. 

I won't rule out uploading directly to Pixmac myself, like Mantonino is planning.  Just want to do some more research and lay this issue to rest first. 

And Zager, you are right, it would be nice if the agencies who have stopped their partnerships with you would be straightforward about why so we have more than guesswork and rumors to base our decisions on.


« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2011, 15:41 »
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We have decided to join Pixmac after a productive and satisfying discussion with their management. They seem to be very open about issues and genuinely interested to treat the contributors fairly. The minimum image commission now is fixed to 25 cents which is low but not that unusual in the industry. Here is an interview with me on their blog: http://blog.pixmac.com/3132/elena-elisseeva-professional-microstock-producer/

And remember, the other agencies are their direct competitors. They may not be exactly 100% objective and honest in this case.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 15:54 by Elenathewise »

« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2011, 15:56 »
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^^^ Very interesting blog Elena.

How do you 'join' Pixmac directly? I don't see any links to sell directly with them, much less any detail of commissions or ToS.

« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2011, 16:04 »
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How do you 'join' Pixmac directly? I don't see any links to sell directly with them, much less any detail of commissions or ToS.


We're not hiring a lot of photographers. Our primary focus is marketing, selling and perfect customer experience. On the other hand, we're working on a section to introduce contributors to Pixmac if they are interested.

This is some basic info:
http://blog.pixmac.com/2816/calling-all-photographers-submit-your-work-to-pixmac/

ToC:
http://blog.microstockgroup.com/major-press-release-from-pixmac-fairness-in-front/
http://www.pixmac.com/page/termsandconditions

« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2011, 16:32 »
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^^^ Thanks for that Zager, it does look interesting.

I'm still a little baffled why you don't just go for it and simply become a 'full-on' microstock agency. That's where the real money is surely? You appear to already have the staff, the offices, the hardware and the development expertise to make it happen. If you are experts at SEO and also have unique access to particular markets, as previously stated, then that can only help not hinder.

The more significant contributors, like Elena, that you are representing the more confidence that others will have to trust you and believe that you can build the sales to make it worthwhile uploading.

« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2011, 16:55 »
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I'm still a little baffled why you don't just go for it and simply become a 'full-on' microstock agency. That's where the real money is surely? You appear to already have the staff, the offices, the hardware and the development expertise to make it happen. If you are experts at SEO and also have unique access to particular markets, as previously stated, then that can only help not hinder.

The more significant contributors, like Elena, that you are representing the more confidence that others will have to trust you and believe that you can build the sales to make it worthwhile uploading.

Well, you're not the only one. Believe me.

As in every business, it's 80% marketing 20% development. There's no reason to build another small agency as any other, doing only their own business. I hope we're all on a same boat and if there already are agencies with a millions of images, why to build the collection again on our own and loose time/money?

My idea, that obviously is challenging, is that we'd focus on marketing, reaching new markets, doing smart advertising and experimenting with new ideas while failing and pushing our borders further. The idea is internally called "Stock Photo Food Court" and means that Pixmac would be able to get variety of content from micro agencies, traditional RF agencies and contributors to one site. And then by focusing on UX/UI (I'm a designer by trade) achieving the best site to buy "any" picture.

The problem comes with the "being competitor while being partner". Although I'm sure we reach markets and market segments that wouldn't be reached if Pixmac was not here, we surely overlap with others. But the truth is that in the end the amount of money to split is bigger. I'm sure it's win-win. But if you look at that from other perspective we might be only a strange API reseller that grows too fast.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 17:36 by zager »

« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2011, 17:19 »
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I, for one, appreciate that someone has come forward and admitted something wrong was done, it was Pixmac fault and they are willing to own the responsibility for this error.  I got really tired of the "smokin mirror" routine by Zager saying it was a misunderstanding.  "Bullsh*t"

I have made plenty of mistakes in my life; I plan to make a few more.  When I make a mistake, I am honest and admit my mistake and take ownership of that mistake and attempt to make it right.  I don't hide behind legal-mumble-jumble saying I can not comment because of pending legal problems.  The truth will come out, admitting the truth will not hurt any legal case.  You want our images; then show us the respect and stop the "smokin mirrors" routine.  I am willing to trust someone that will be transparent; even if they have made mistakes in the past.  I assume you are human, I expect you to muck-up once in-a-while or have an employee that mucks up.

Remember, these images are our life-blood; they are how we feed ourselves and our family.  If someone steals them, we have lost everything.

lisafx

« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2011, 18:26 »
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I feel like Zager has been pretty up-front and honest here.  I think the smoke and mirrors are coming from other directions. 

« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2011, 18:41 »
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I feel like Zager has been pretty up-front and honest here.  I think the smoke and mirrors are coming from other directions. 


And that's pretty much the problem...we are scattered all over the country and the world and are only connected by our computers...it's pretty difficult to know what is the truth and what is smoke and mirrors.

From reply #32 above, from Zager:

Quote
Well, as I've explained in our company blog (http://blog.pixmac.com/2394/explanation-of-single-purchase/). The reasons for all the three agencies were different.

Unfortunately, I cant mention the company names, due to the nature of the legal processes. But the information was in the blogpost above. This is how it all happened:

As for the first agency that discontinued contract with us, the reason was that both companies are competitors in a certain country. And as we acquired the photographers content from a closing company in that country the situation got difficult with the first agency.

The second agency made an allegation after that independently. And we're working that out with them = explaining everything.

The third agency was a result of domino effect. In other words a mixture of loud photographers on forums, unclear information at that time etc. It was a security step on their side as they dont want to loose photographers (And I understand that). There was no other issue (technical or legal) such as the allegation of the second agency because of which it all happened. We are currently in the termination period with the third company.

No other partner (out of 20+) terminated a contract with us.


If everything is above board, why are their legal processes going on in which you can't mention their names? If it were all a misunderstanding, there would be NO legal processes, would there? Would agencies really invest money in a legal battle if they knew it was just a misunderstanding?

Of course everyone has the right to believe what they want. Since I am never going to see the actual court documents, I prefer to err on the side of caution, at this particular point in time. And just because Zager says it's all a misunderstanding here in this forum, I prefer to have a little more proof. But that's just me.  :)

[email protected]

« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2011, 20:00 »
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...and me!

« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2011, 21:05 »
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How do you 'join' Pixmac directly? I don't see any links to sell directly with them, much less any detail of commissions or ToS.


We're not hiring a lot of photographers. Our primary focus is marketing, selling and perfect customer experience. On the other hand, we're working on a section to introduce contributors to Pixmac if they are interested.

This is some basic info:
http://blog.pixmac.com/2816/calling-all-photographers-submit-your-work-to-pixmac/

ToC:
http://blog.microstockgroup.com/major-press-release-from-pixmac-fairness-in-front/
http://www.pixmac.com/page/termsandconditions


Seems like every few months something problem pops up about pixmac (do a search on 'pixmac'), trust takes a long time to rebuild especially when new problems keep coming up :) (although that's better than istock's almost daily issue LOL)

Commissions are different between the two docs you posted :)
You're T&C still talks exclusivity which you say in one of the docs is Exclusivity is something like DRM in music. It doesnt work long term.
"Were trying to become a true Open Company" good and thankfully you've got rid of the $0.02 commissions but "Subscription    30% ($0.25+)    40% ($0.25+)" implies that higher amounts are possible for subscription sales??, however based on your front page pricing, artists cannot recieve the more than the $0.25 minimum???
still have credits earned expire in 1 year so if you havent made payout too bad you lose your earnings.
etc etc
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 21:15 by Phil »


 

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