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Author Topic: 123rf sharing commissions with parent company Inmagine  (Read 19158 times)

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« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2014, 05:23 »
+25
We have to help carry the higher risks and costs, Alex, but we do not participate in the possibly higher profits but get less money?  Do you think, we are stupid?


« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2014, 06:59 »
+10
Thanks for this info, Robert. I'm not sure if I'll continue uploading there. SS, iStock, FT and DT are around 90% of my monthly earnings anyway and I don't have to deal with this if I don't want to.

« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2014, 07:30 »
+6
Downplaying honesty in business practices :)
Because it's internet base? honesty is unnecessary? you think you can get away? because there is unlimited supply of contents and contributors? oh so nice, that sensation feeling of "too big to fail" you guys can sit back n relax, losing few contributors doesn't affect a thing.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 07:33 by Open_ »

« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2014, 07:58 »
0
Hi Everyone,

We understand your concern and I am glad to report that in the next few days, we will no longer feature your portfolio at any API Partner Reseller site, if you have opted out from the Partner Reseller program.

Thank you,

Alex.

Hi Alex,
Just to be clear. inimage is now considered an api partner and the only way to opt out from them is to opt out from all?

« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2014, 08:20 »
+33
I have been reading this forum for several years, finally decided to register.

Although I'm overfilled with bad feelings I want to be as constructive as possible.

First of all - 123rf rep [Alex] - pls stop telling us about your expenses. Every image that automagically appears on Inmagine has expenses too. There is no agency that has a spare second to listen about our expenses.

I have a few practical questions/suggestions to 123rf/Inmagine rep:

1. Pls provide us with step-by-step instructions for the opt-out procedure. This procedure should not just simply exclude our images from your search, but will make our works no longer a part of your database.

2. Pls answer a simple question:
if an Inmagine customer pays 10 USD for a file uploaded by 123rf contributor - how much 123rf contributor will get?
Pls be accurate. Just numbers. Exclude "it depends" - provide all dependencies.
Or a table with all variants. This is our money too.

3. Finally, the question of trust. I want my sales stats on Inmagine. I want to evaluate my losses. Date, file ID, sale price, my earnings. Many of us have IT background, so don't tell this is a complex query. It is trivial. Give us step-by-step instructions of how to request and finally get these numbers.

Rebuilding the reputation and trust is a tough job.
123rep, pls start with answers for these three practical questions.

« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2014, 09:16 »
+26
My dear Alex,

we probably do not uderstand each other. Our concern is this:

1) WHY do you try to cheat and do not fully and openly disclose your business? Photographers and agencies should be partners. If you (agencies) do not accept this fact and try to cheat and screw us all the time, it will backfire. Look at iStock now or what happened with Fotolia DPC.

2) We understand you have costs. We also have costs. Please, keep in mind, that if your "business partner" (as you call it) has some problem with payments or costs, its solely THEIR problem! We authors agreed to 50 % of openly stated price. We DID NOT agree to some tricks with currency or participation in some non-disclosed and suspicious contracts. We also did not agree to cover extra costs (or pay extra profit) of your business partner from our share!

3) We are all very tired of these politically correct business talks, which are just trying to hide the fact, that you simply screwed us. We saw such things many times and believe me, we are pretty fed up with such non-ethical and greedy approach.   

« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2014, 12:15 »
+10
As expressed by others, too Alex' reply doesn't address the issues raised by Rob and others.

- Providing an opt out would address any undesired consequences of this 'deal', but does not solve the issue that caused it, nor the breach of trust by not sharing this information / intention in advance.
- Neglecting the currency exchange rate between Euro and Dollar prior to calculating royalties seems to be nothing more than wiggling out of paying contributors a few cents more. If this is the case, it's very poor practice.

I'm also curious to hear if these Inmagine sales also count towards the dreaded contributor levels and credit targets, and to what extend.

I think some etiquette in announcing deals prior to implementing them are in order here. Agency upon agency is loosing face when a contributor finds out about these shady constructions. I'm not arguing all deals are shady or bad, and there might be a logical, plausible and fully acceptable explanation. Either way, the only way to save face is to take control of the situation, and either fess up, or provide the genuine, credible and undiluted intentions behind it, please.

Kudos to Rob for finding out!


Kudos to Rob!

fotorob

  • I am a professional stock photographer

« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2014, 13:48 »
+8
Kudos to Rob for finding out!

Thanks, but the credit is due to another German photographer who noticed that it could be an issue, he reported it in my - now closed - German stock photography forum and we did some research based on that. I only published the results.

« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2014, 06:18 »
+17
I opted out of 123RF API reseller option many months ago.  Dismayed to find that my images are selling (even a minute ago) from the Inimagine site.  :(

Well, 123RF make up your mind - are they your same company OR API resellers???  They can't be both depending on your convenience!

At the very least, and as a faith-restoring measure, it would suit you best to add credit at the 123RF commission rate for all sales made at Inimagine where contributors have been underpaid up to now.  Once the past mess has been cleared up - provide the contributors with a clear option to opt in or out from Inimagine, just as you do for all API reseller sites.  At the time we upload to 123RF it is with the trust (Hah!) and belief that our work is handled with due respect.  Please don't punish us for backing and supporting your business with our work !

« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2014, 14:41 »
+8
@123RF

i think it is cashback time.
It is of course this settlement to end.
But only stop is not enough. You can not just build crap and if you get caught say ok sorry.
I think it's the least the loss of income to report.

« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2014, 17:41 »
+13
I just read the thread and immediately opted out from the Partner Reseller program!
I'm seriously concidering removing my portfolio from 123!  >:(

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2014, 18:57 »
-11
That's fair and I'm glad you all fixed this issue. It demonstrates a measure of fairness.

Hi Everyone,

We understand your concern and I am glad to report that in the next few days, we will no longer feature your portfolio at any API Partner Reseller site, if you have opted out from the Partner Reseller program.

Thank you,

Alex.

« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2014, 20:14 »
+11
i dont like to leave any agency but 123, kozzi and deposit i stop and delete all my stuff. Do not like to be robbed.

« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2014, 03:14 »
+1
That's fair and I'm glad you all fixed this issue. It demonstrates a measure of fairness.

Hi Everyone,

We understand your concern and I am glad to report that in the next few days, we will no longer feature your portfolio at any API Partner Reseller site, if you have opted out from the Partner Reseller program.

Thank you,

Alex.


Good (black) joke! :)

« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2014, 03:56 »
+3
Sorry, I don't buy it, Alex.

1. You claim Inmagine to be an API Partner Reseller, but offer the 123rf images even if the "API Partners" have been disabled.

2. Even when I found out, you offered to remove the images from the Inmagine search results, but NOT from the site.

3. You claim that it can happen very often that an Inmagine customer doesn't pay. When we did our research, the only payment options have been Paypal and credit card. Paypal offers upfront payment and same goes for most credit cards (if it is not a stolen one).

4. Given that it's true that many of your customers don't seem to pay, should photographers be worried who send their images to Inmagine directly?

5. If you need more manpower and two different bookkeeping systems and back offices, even though 123rf and Inmagine belong to the same company, that's your "problem", not one of yours.


Yep, and that's fraud, time to bring forth the suited men. Also whoever is the alex123 nick, was the one who did the lying, and is personally responsible, and will be held responsible. It is recorded here. "I was told to this and that by my boss" won't cut it.

PureArt

  • UK
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2014, 11:09 »
+19
...
However, the 123RF Partner Reseller API (the bridge between 123RF and Inmagine) immediately registers a sale whenever Inmagine records an image purchase. 123RF is then committed to pay the commissions to you regardless of the ability of Inmagine to collect payment with credit terms mentioned above.
...

Alex,

I have about 25 years of IT experience. And I can not understand: why can't you update the API of your system to reflect the actual sales?!

If the API shows wrong results - just force your programmers to change the API. It is a matter of several days, including the final tests.

The API is not something given by gods in a form of stone plate with a holy text (when you can not and must not change it). It is your API and you have 100% control over it.

So, please, do not think we are stupid. If API works this way, that it because you developed it this way by your plan.

P.S.

The problem now is the same as with Dollar Photo Club: It is not enough to add an "opt out" button. Because some of photographers do not know about this 123RF scam. Now 123RF must notify all the contributors (via the site and newsletter) about this new "opt out" button (once it is created). Otherwise we again will need to create a boycott site (like that one against fotolia scam), notify the contributors around the World etc., etc., etc.

« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2014, 16:32 »
+8
this is big fat lie and only thing you deserve is the maximum penalty, closing our accounts!

I expect an apology and changes in 30 days!



Hi everyone,

I've been following the thread and I hope I would be given the opportunity to jump in and clarify a few matters.

Yes, you're right to view Inmagine as a sister or parent company, whose main product are PREMIUM RM and RF images and have the same shareholders. However, that's where the similarities end -  Inmagine and 123RF do not share manpower, infrastructure, sales or marketing budgets, marketing activities, strategies etc.

Being experienced contributors, you would understand that every business is carried out differently - Inmagine's target audience are customers of a different segment with different needs. With 123RF, we're largely a self-serve, pay before you consume, volume based sales approach. While Inmagine has longer sales cycles, heavily reliant on relationship based sales, requires a lot of extensive image research, travelling and pitching before a client finally gets on board and the customer care that entails after the sale is very protracted, a lot of manual invoicing, mailing and follow up is required even if only a single image was sold.  A majority of Inmagine's customers demand credit terms ranging anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months. This is because, Inmagine's own customers (the agencies themselves) have to be paid beforehand. Once they're paid then only Inmagine gets paid.

However, the 123RF Partner Reseller API (the bridge between 123RF and Inmagine) immediately registers a sale whenever Inmagine records an image purchase. 123RF is then committed to pay the commissions to you regardless of the ability of Inmagine to collect payment with credit terms mentioned above.

The image that I'm trying to paint here is:
1. Inmagine's cost of sales is very much different from 123RF's. It's a lot more involved - client visits and servicing are imperative to the business.
2. Inmagine's undertaking of RISK is also very much higher because there is a significant chance that clients might default or even go bust before payments are collected. This is a very real risk during bad economic downturns when a large number of agencies stopped operating.
3. 123RF has to pay commissions upon record of sale and charge Inmagine immediately, but Inmagine has to take a long time to recover the sales as Imagine have to abide by the credit terms given.
4. Inmagine and 123RF are incorporated in different parts of the world, we cannot "merge" the accounting systems between the 2 companies as easily as some might think.

With the 4 points above, I hope you can somewhat relate that we are unable treat the businesses as a single entity. Inmagine has to retain that margin because of a larger cost of sale required to sustain its business. Please also note that we feel that Inmagine should retain itself as an API Partner Reseller because we believe that every sale we can fight for our contributors and keep it within the community would be beneficial and count towards your earnings.

Thanks for lending us your ears.

Alex

« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2014, 17:07 »
+9
Oh a 30 days countdown is a nice idea i think  >:(.

fotorob

  • I am a professional stock photographer

« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2014, 07:13 »
+2
Now four days have passed since Alex from 123rf told us that they change the system.

Has anybody checked if their images disappeared from the Inmagine website after they unchecked the "API partner" box?

I cannot check it because my images already have been deleted (probably manually) at Inmagine...

« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2014, 08:28 »
+1
Has anybody checked if their images disappeared from the Inmagine website after they unchecked the "API partner" box?
My images are disappeared.

Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2014, 09:53 »
+17
It's utterly insane to put the burden of the risk on OUR shoulders, by taking a bite out of our profits to cover your expenses and possibly losses for sales that don't follow through.
You come here explaining the situation but you're playing the 'please feel sorry for us, it's a tough business' card while you seem to forget (or rather, neglect) that we have expenses too, and we're taking as much risks as you are.

In the past few years almost every agency in this microstock industry has pulled some kind of trick on us, because apparently it's easy to deceive contributors. You think you can get away with dishonesty, unfairplay and deceit but in reality you're destroying the industry, and our trust.

It's absolutely disgusting to see how businesses like 123RF will stoop so low for a bigger bite of money.

« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2014, 10:41 »
+1
My images don't seem to come up in the Inimagine search today.  They were there two days ago, even though I was opted out from the 123RF API reseller program since many months.  It looks like they have removed them from Inimagine now.

« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2014, 10:51 »
+1
I had been opted out of API sales for a long time. My images are now gone from Inmagine (I did a couple of searches and paged through the results to be sure they really were not there, even though the drop in numbers and absence from the first page suggested something had changed).

« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2014, 13:37 »
0
maybe there are your images too: http://dubistock.com/
the same game..

« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2014, 13:41 »
0
you remember the thread: http://www.microstockgroup.com/123royaltyfree-com/sudden-jump-in-contributor-level/msg398342/?topicseen#new

Maybe that`s the real credit 123rf made with (y)our images.
But there`s a cut for dubistock and a cut for inmagine and a cut for 123rf and ..
 ;D


 

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