Author Topic: 2013 is here - how about the promisses? (Read 63398 times)

heywoody · « **Reply #100 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:48 »

Yes, the guys who keep their % should stay as should those who get an increase. If the rest of us quit or at least stop uploading and the impact on the bottom line might lead to a reconsideration. Seems even IS realise that an unhappy pool of suppliers is not good for business (whether or not action is taken is another thing) - for a small player the loss of goodwill could be a disaster,

luissantos84 · « **Reply #101 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:55 »

Quote from: heywoody on December 18, 2012, 09:48

Yes, the guys who keep their % should stay as should those who get an increase. If the rest of us quit or at least stop uploading and the impact on the bottom line might lead to a reconsideration. Seems even IS realise that an unhappy pool of suppliers is not good for business (whether or not action is taken is another thing) - for a small player the loss of goodwill could be a disaster,

I wonder why are case studies made for... seems that we only learn by doing mistakes ourself!

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #102 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:58 »

Hi Alex,

Thanks for responding, despite the negative attacks from many people. I hope you understand how frustrating it is for everyone here who are working as hard as possible to make marketable images and to promote agencies that treat them fairly only to be hit with a royalty cut. It feels like a kick in the teeth.

I appreciate your interceding with top management on our behalf to try to mitigate the effects of the impending cuts. Many here will leave your agency in January. I suspect most of us will stop uploading for a while and see what happens with sales. If things don't pick up and 123 drops into the low earners then we probably won't bother again. I hope you can be successful but if management doesn't consider all contributors instead of just the largest ones then everyone else will leave, your database will stagnate and buyers will go elsewhere in the long run as pointed out by others. We need you to sell our images but without our content you have nothing to sell. The relationship should be symbiotic rather than parasitic. Royalty cuts tilt it in the wrong direction. There used to be lots of positive buzz about 123rf in these forums but you can see that dried up a year ago. Grandfathering would have solved most of those problems. Oh well.

My main criticism now that has not been commented on is with the subscription rates. A base of 21 cents is just too low. In two weeks, 123rf will have the distinction of having the lowest payout rate for subscriptions in the industry. Is that how you want to be known? I could certainly never recommend your site to any new people with that low subs rate - really it is insulting to pay so low per download. I will not be at the bottom, but will be low enough that I won't want to sell subs at 123rf beginning in January.

Could you please check with management to ask whether we can have an opt-out option for subscription sales? If I could opt out of subscription sales until I would have a decent rate of return I would feel much better about the cuts. Even better would be to increase the base subs rate to at least 25 or 30 cents to be consistent with your competitors - nobody else pays lower than 25 cents. You can understand that if we continue to support a site that undercuts all of the others in subscription payout rates it might encourage the others to drop theirs. Therefore, for us to maintain our business it becomes best for 123rf to fail. I'm sure that's not what you intend but that will be the outcome. Dropping royalty rates is bad, but dropping them below anyone else in the industry is unacceptable. I hope you can get management to do something about the proposed subscription rates before the relationship becomes antagonistic - you can see how well that has worked out for iStock. Thanks.

fotografer · « **Reply #103 on:** December 18, 2012, 10:15 »

Quote from: fotografer on December 18, 2012, 05:38

Quote from: Microstock Man on December 18, 2012, 04:06
Quote from: fotografer on December 18, 2012, 03:14
I'm 34 credits away from level 5!!!

YOU aren't level 5, 50%? No wonder most others have taken a huge hit. I thought for sure you would have been, guess you will be in a month or two at least.

It's one of my newer sites and I'm actually quite pleased with how they are increasing. I think that I definitely will hit 50% again by the end of January so not really worried.

To make things clear I am in no way pleased with the commission slashes but have been quite pleased with the increase in sales the last few months. I realize now how condecending that must have sounded to anybody that will take a cut and apologize for being so tactless.

rubyroo · « **Reply #104 on:** December 18, 2012, 10:48 »

Quote from: sgoodwin4813 on December 18, 2012, 09:58

The relationship should be symbiotic rather than parasitic.

That is the most succinct and perfect description I have ever read on this subject. Bravo.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #105 on:** December 18, 2012, 10:55 »

I don't begrudge any contributor their success - albeit with a modest middle tier site. I understand that we each have to make the cash as best we can - and with so many sites behaving so shabbily to contributors, it's getting harder to ignore anywhere that can generate a regular source of income.

I do harbor all sorts of negative thoughts about 123rf''s attempt to increase their profits by looting contributor's share versus growing the business overall. If those hurt by these new rates don't upload anything new, their subscription business will be impacted - new content is the lifeblood of subscriptions. It's possible we might still influence them to behave better towards us.

I could understand if those earning 50% or over resented those of us who don't upload hurting a site that's paying them well. But them's the breaks.

prostock · « **Reply #106 on:** December 18, 2012, 12:12 »

I miss the 54 credit for level 4, and in December 2011 I had more money than doubled December 2012,at all the sites that we have so far reduced earnings and promised a higher traffic and profit, the profit is bypassed me

Poncke · « **Reply #107 on:** December 18, 2012, 13:01 »

Quote from: leaf on December 18, 2012, 06:13

Two posts were removed. Obviously, by looking at this thread, it is OK to be critical to 123RF or other agencies but a certain level of professionalism is required. Coarse language and black humor are not welcome.

Alex certainly does not have to participate in this thread, we should show a little respect when he does - even if we are disagreeing strongly.

You removed one of mine which I think was nothing wrong with. You could have edited the post, now the whole point didnt come across. Still karma will find its way. Karma always does. As soon as IS and 123 go down no other agency will ever think of lowering royalties again.

lisafx · « **Reply #108 on:** December 18, 2012, 13:03 »

Quote from: jsnover on December 18, 2012, 10:55

I could understand if those earning 50% or over resented those of us who don't upload hurting a site that's paying them well. But them's the breaks.

I will be keeping 50% for now, but I certainly would not resent anyone who isn't for stopping uploading. It's not your job to support my interests, but to support your own.

Besides, all of our interests would be better served if this RC credit scheme were nipped in the bud.

Poncke · « **Reply #109 on:** December 18, 2012, 13:10 »

Quote from: alex123rf on December 18, 2012, 02:08

Hi Everyone,

You should be able to see your levels now.
Please visit: http://www.123rf.com/sellimages.php (fastest)

And here: http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php (captcha & much slower)

I hope this helps clear the air a bit. I'd like to thank everyone here submitting your suggestions to us.

As usual, we will look at them seriously, our plan is still on track, to continue forging ahead and opening up new markets.

Thank you very much, have a Merry Christmas and I hope that you will continue to be with us in 2013.

Alex

Since my post was removed I will tell you again in a professional manner.

Wishing someone a merry christmas after your employer cut their royalties by 30% could be considered a form of sadism. To me personally it feels like sadism and I am very upset by you wishing me a merry christmas.

I think what you are doing is greedy and that is one of the 7 sins and I also believe in karma and that 123 will get their fair share. I personally hope that, once all you guys over 123 have experienced how it feels to be cut on income, you will never pull a stunt like that again.

So all of the be above is my personal opinion and what is on my mind. I am not accusing you of anything, I am just sharing my thoughts. This should fall well within the freedom of speech and the forum rules.

Thanks for understanding and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts and feelings.

Poncke · « **Reply #110 on:** December 18, 2012, 13:16 »

Quote from: Tabimura on December 18, 2012, 05:21

I'm almost at 4800. I made a test, not uploading for about 3 months this year to them and the sales were just the same. Therefore I'll probably leave my images on the site for a while, lets say a month or two. They won't get anything more from me. If I see net income drop I'll just pull my portfolio. I'm not kidding. Sorry 123RF, you're just not big enough to pull stunts like this. I will also recommend to everyone I know involved with stock photography and who's unaware of the ripoff to pull portfolios or at least stop uploading. And of course, to every client I know personally to avoid this agency.

I am a very small fish, 600 photos, but I have stopped uploading early november and I will pull my port as soon as I have hit the next payout.

klsbear · « **Reply #111 on:** December 18, 2012, 14:06 »

Royalty cuts are never good and never seemed to be justified with any increased earnings that I've witnessed. This one seems particularly hurtful. I consider myself to be a serious part timer. I've invested in studio equipment with the intent of making this a long time endeavor with a goal of becoming full time. My portfolio has grown slow but steady but has yet to grow to the level shown by long term full timers. For the past few years my images were deemed worthy of 50% but come January I'll drop to 35% primarily because my portfolio is small. It's a slap in the face to have 123 change the terms so drastically and devalue my efforts like this. They want me to invest time and effort in them to grow while they pull the means out from under me. It disappoints me too because they were consistently my #3 earning site but they will be descending to a much lower level come January. I'll be taking a wait and see attitude next year. Getting back to my current level appears to be years away unless they show a lot more than doubling sales even if I quadruple my portfolio.

lisafx · « **Reply #112 on:** December 18, 2012, 14:34 »

I see where it tells us what our current level is, but I can't for the life of me find the chart that gives the numbers of what levels are for each rank. Can anyone help with that?

Poncke · « **Reply #113 on:** December 18, 2012, 14:40 »

Quote from: lisafx on December 18, 2012, 14:34

I see where it tells us what our current level is, but I can't for the life of me find the chart that gives the numbers of what levels are for each rank. Can anyone help with that?

Its on the captcha page before you login to see your earnings

http://www.123rf.com/contrib_affirm.php?goback=http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php

lisafx · « **Reply #114 on:** December 18, 2012, 14:49 »

Quote from: Poncke on December 18, 2012, 14:40

Quote from: lisafx on December 18, 2012, 14:34
I see where it tells us what our current level is, but I can't for the life of me find the chart that gives the numbers of what levels are for each rank. Can anyone help with that?
Its on the captcha page before you login to see your earnings

http://www.123rf.com/contrib_affirm.php?goback=http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php

Oh, I don't remember noticing that. Guess I only just look at the captcha. Thanks a lot Poncke

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #115 on:** December 18, 2012, 14:58 »

Quote from: alex123rf on December 18, 2012, 04:53

To some borderline cases (a little more and you'll get to the next level) if you're doing better in December 2012 than in December 2011, you should be looking forward to the next Contributor Level.

Thank you,

Alex.

You can sugar coat this all you like, but there's no good news in this. Trying to make the whole enterprise seem a little better by offering a boost to one or two people is just sad.

Canonbabe · « **Reply #116 on:** December 18, 2012, 15:49 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on December 05, 2012, 18:18

Quote from: steheap on December 05, 2012, 18:12
Ahh - pretty complex! I ended up with 2881 credits for 2012 to date. So I'm at 45%

Steve

really? you must have a lot subs and small downloads

Same here: Your contributor level : 4 | Past 12 Month Credits Total : 3499

Pixart · « **Reply #117 on:** December 18, 2012, 15:54 »

I wonder how Leaf's poll on the right works. My worry is that a lot of us low earners will drop them (or some of you have said stop uploading) but they will be boosted in the poll because those making a somewhat fair % will be the only survivors/voters.

leaf · « **Reply #118 on:** December 18, 2012, 17:06 »

Quote from: Pixart on December 18, 2012, 15:54

I wonder how Leaf's poll on the right works. My worry is that a lot of us low earners will drop them (or some of you have said stop uploading) but they will be boosted in the poll because those making a somewhat fair % will be the only survivors/voters.

Here is a discussion on how the polls work
http://www.microstockgroup.com/site-related/why-is-the-shutterstock-ranking-not-100-anymore/

grafix04 · « **Reply #119 on:** December 18, 2012, 19:27 »

The calculations are wrong and not surprisingly, in their favor.

For those that have been giving an earful to those that have made the 50% I think that's a little unfair. If you were in their position you would be pleased about it too (for the moment) but you have to remember that it's not all roses for them either. Just because they're 50% now it doesn't mean they'll remain at 50%. If many who are under 50% leave, buyers will too and in their long term their sales will fall and they could possibly fall below the 50%. 123rf could also move the goal posts again or introduce something that decreases credit sales and increases subscription sales, making them lose their ranking. But long term, what does it all mean? Will anyone apart from 123rf really suffer? As sales go down, more contributors will leave, more buyers will leave and they'll buy our images from one of the other sites. The big loser here will be 123rf. The top ranking folk will gain from this initially when we pull our ports but give it time and they'll feel the pinch too. The important thing is that 123rf will feel the pinch right away and they'll have deserved it. They've forgotten that the only reason why such a small micro like them have had success is that we've helped them get there. We can easily put them back in their place. They're not screwing us over, they're screwing themselves. It's going to be fun to watch.

Poncke · « **Reply #120 on:** December 18, 2012, 19:32 »

I dont think anyone here has a problem with people keeping 50% or more. Its about the way its communicated. Saying you are happy or gloating are two different things.

Note:not accusing anyone here

MatHayward · « **Reply #121 on:** December 18, 2012, 19:44 »

In hindsight I think it was a big mistake to make such a bold announcement so far in advance. I get that there is a desire to be perceived as transparent (though perception isn't always reality). Though the notification helped me decide to halt all uploads then and there.

So having put no effort into my 123rf account for the better part of the last year I find myself in tier 3. It makes me wonder if had been uploading regularly would I be up in tier 5? I'll never know. I'm still bothered greatly by their policy to charge contributors for promotional credits but that's a whole other discussion.

Mat

flashon · « **Reply #122 on:** December 18, 2012, 22:58 »

Quote from: MatHayward on December 18, 2012, 19:44

So having put no effort into my 123rf account for the better part of the last year I find myself in tier 3. It makes me wonder if had been uploading regularly would I be up in tier 5? I'll never know. I'm still bothered greatly by their policy to charge contributors for promotional credits but that's a whole other discussion.

Mat

From Level 3 to Level 5? No way from my experience and the stuff I submit, that's more than double credits you need to earn. I have been uploading all months long only to find being fooled at the end, sitting in the middle of level 4, very upset!

CD123 · « **Reply #123 on:** December 19, 2012, 01:12 »

Ultimately EVERYONE is going to bleed, even the decision makers in this relationship (although they are clearly oblivious to it at the moment). The "winner" doesn't take it all, because there will be zip to take in the end.

qwerty · « **Reply #124 on:** December 19, 2012, 02:07 »

As expected not happy, only full time and most talented contributors can maintain 50%.

Subscriptions which make up majority of my sales will have the largest % reduction.

I have now stopped uploading to 123rf.

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Author Topic: 2013 is here - how about the promisses? (Read 63398 times)

heywoody

luissantos84

sgoodwin4813

fotografer

rubyroo

Jo Ann Snover

prostock

Poncke

lisafx

Poncke

Poncke

klsbear

lisafx

Poncke

lisafx

Jo Ann Snover

Canonbabe

Pixart

leaf

grafix04

Poncke

MatHayward

flashon

CD123

qwerty

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