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Author Topic: New Limited Extended License?  (Read 14383 times)

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« on: August 30, 2012, 05:50 »
0
It seems 123RF has a new licence type: Limited Extended Licence, or LEL. Has anyone heard anything about this? I don't suppose 123RF has issued a statement about this?

I wonder how much discount they're going to offer to promote this  ::)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 05:54 by corepics »


« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 08:58 »
0
I see the column in the download summary, but looking at the license page here, or on the page of one of my images, I don't see it.

I also looked at the blog and don't see anything.

« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 16:57 »
0
I sent a message to support 12 hrs ago. No answer, yet.


STILLFX

« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 21:01 »
0
Hi All,

LEL - as the name suggest is a Limited Extended License.
It's specially negotiated license that allows the Client to use the Content for 1 specific (declared) use.

And because it's negotiated and different from client to client, we can't really put up the LEL up on the general public. The wording and structure of the LEL is in essence very much like the Extended Licenses but the scope of usage under clause 3, will be restricted to 1 use only.

Hope this clarifies your questions.

Alex.


Could be big money coming our way...  ::)

BTW, August was BME at 123RF. Thanks Alex!!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 21:08 by STILLFX »

« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 23:37 »
0
Aha, some sensitive use thing going on here (not that it has to be "sensitive") but apparently not only SS understands that certain clients have special needs (no pun intended!).

« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 15:51 »
+2
Hi All,

LEL - as the name suggest is a Limited Extended License.
It's specially negotiated license that allows the Client to use the Content for 1 specific (declared) use.

And because it's negotiated and different from client to client, we can't really put up the LEL up on the general public. The wording and structure of the LEL is in essence very much like the Extended Licenses but the scope of usage under clause 3, will be restricted to 1 use only.

Hope this clarifies your questions.

Alex.

I received one of these on January 4 and was paid $5.04 (at 45% royalty). We need to be able to see how many credits the client was charged for one of these - otherwise how can I tell if this was a 100 credit license for which I was grossly underpaid or a correct royalty? If my new "floor" per credit is 18 cents, then this LEL could be for 28 credits which is pretty low, even given a one-time use. The other ELs are 50, 75 and 100 credits. If we dont' hear back via this thread I'm going to contact support and ask for more information.

We have been promised (while all royalties were 50% customer service wrote to me that we would be paid 20 cents per credit minimum) that the minimum price per credit is 40 cents for the purpose of calculating royalties. Given several recent mistakes and a royalty change that was initially incorrect, perhaps 123rf can understand why I want to see more details on what we're being paid.

The earnings page needs work - mine still says "* Credit Earnings calculated based on 50% of the actual price for each of your image sold." and that's clearly not true for January 2013

Each month needs to show the royalty percentage (not contributor level as that could change over time) and the RC total on which that was based for months from Jan 2013 going forward.

When there are sales that we don't know the credit value of - like LELs or the upsizing deals where we don't actually get paid on the basis of what the customer paid - the earnings need to show that - either in the monthly totals or the daily.

We need downloadable CSV format sales and earnings data so we can keep track of things.

123rf has chosen this added level of complexity, and so now needs to step up and fix the rudimentary sales reporting information to keep up.

« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 23:03 »
0
When you drop the percentage you pay, you need to change all the text on your pages to reflect that new reality. My page says "* Credit Earnings calculated based on 50% of the actual price for each of your image sold." - no longer the case, so either pay 50% or change it to say how much bigger your cut is.
Also you should list monthly RC totals (if not RC for every sale).

The amount we get per sale is all over the map and in light of all of the recent problems with underpayment we need more transparency.  Remember, you drew first blood, and we are now in a state of competition (like you said you wanted), so use all that extra money you are bringing in and fix things.

« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 00:47 »
0
Got my first 25cent sub   woo yay.

I hope nobody is uploading.

Poncke

« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 11:10 »
0
Iam getting 23 and 21 cent sales as well... wnckers

« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 12:12 »
+1
Iam getting 23 and 21 cent sales as well... wnckers

time to stop the insanity - if they had BIG volume, maybe, but as it is its a kick to the nutsack

« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 16:34 »
0
I heard back from support this morning.

Apparently all LELs are 20 credits, so my sale was made with 56 cent credits - certainly above the "floor" of 40 cents.

I don't know why it took a note to support to uncover that LELs were 20 credits - that could have been written somewhere. It would be nice to know what rights - for one use only - they get for 20 credits, but I'll save that query for another day. They didn't answer that part of my query :)


« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 10:47 »
+5
Please note that LELs are not at fixed price of 20 credits, we negotiate on the pricing based on the extent of usage.

Just wanted to make that clear. Some of you might be getting 30 or 40 credit versions of the LELs.

I appreciate you clarifying - perhaps you can also pass that on to support as their answer was quite clear - and apparently incorrect:

"Note that LEL downloads are for 20 credits. The image of yours that was downloaded under LEL for $5.04, the amount per credit is actually $0.56.
In other words, ($0.56 x 20credits x 45%) = $5.04."


And at the risk of repeating myself, you must start reporting how many credits with each of these sales as they are part of the RC calculation that you have decided to introduce - we need to know where the RC totals each month are coming from and without any notion of how many credits something is licensed for we can't.

Poncke

« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 12:33 »
+4
What Jo said. 123 needs to be more transparent. Stop the sneaky wheeler dealing. Tell us what you owe us properly.

Ow what the heck, who cares, I am dropping them anyways.
Carry on.

DC


« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2014, 13:58 »
0
I know this is an old topic, but I got one of these LELs the other day and made $1.24.  Can anybody "top" that?

HI everyone,

Please note that LELs are not at fixed price of 20 credits, we negotiate on the pricing based on the extent of usage.

Just wanted to make that clear. Some of you might be getting 30 or 40 credit versions of the LELs.

Thank you very much,

Alex.

Looks like you can also get these at much less than 20 credits as well.


« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2014, 15:10 »
0
Me too!
Level 4 = $1,40

« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2014, 17:38 »
0
Got one at $2.375 level 5 :(

« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2014, 17:54 »
+2
And puff goes the portfolio....

« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2014, 18:23 »
+3
My lowest LEL in 2013 was $3.60 - which would be the right amount for the promised minimum credit value for the purposes of calculating royalties - 40 cents - times 45% times 20 credits.

So, these lower numbers are either a smaller number of credits or 123rf has imposed another rate cut on contributors and changed the minimum credit price to something below 40 cents. At level 4 (45%) the minimum royalty per credit is 18 cents and if you divide $1.40 by 18 cents you get 7.777(recurring) which is clearly not a valid number of credits.

In spite of the high likelihood of an unsatisfying answer, I'd contact support about that $1.40 royalty and ask them to explain how it can be correct. An XXL image is 6 credits - hard to see how an extended license, however limited, can be a hair under 8 credits.

« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2014, 18:48 »
0
" In 123 we trust..."

« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2014, 23:33 »
+3
All of these "special deals" are nothing more than a way to confuse, block and tackle the contributor on the facts and transparency of commissions. It clearly gives the micros the upper hand if they choose to deceive because they can explain it away with gibberish.

« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2014, 11:15 »
0
"Limited Extended" sounds generally very interesting, right? I would suggest an alternative: "limited unlimited"  :P

DC


« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 09:43 »
0
I wrote support and they replied that the minimum price of an LEL is 20 credits.

I am tier 3 so I get 40%.  I got $1.24 so that means the total price was $3.10.

If the minimum is 20 credits then if my calculation is correct it is 15.5 cents per credit

« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 10:49 »
+2
I wrote support and they replied that the minimum price of an LEL is 20 credits.

I am tier 3 so I get 40%.  I got $1.24 so that means the total price was $3.10.

If the minimum is 20 credits then if my calculation is correct it is 15.5 cents per credit


That is way, way below the floor of 40 cents a credit (for the purpose of paying royalties) that all their past communications with us about small royalty amounts had mentioned. In things written before they slashed contributor royalties you'll see mention of 20 cent minimum royalties but everyone was on 50% back then.

See this post where a number of items come up, but I had received a royalty that would have meant the buyer paid 12.4 cents a credit - it turned out to be a mistake and they fixed it:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/123royaltyfree-com/100mb-sale-for-$11-58-wow/msg285837/#msg285837

This post here talks about discounts and how promotional credits are handled

http://www.microstockgroup.com/123royaltyfree-com/123-any-improvements/msg258098/#msg258098

It'd be nice if someone from 123rf would make a statement about whether or not we are now seeing credit prices as low as 15.5 cents a credit and will be paid only our percentage of that amount versus a floor of 40 cents a credit.

Clearly all the agencies can go back on any and all promises they made in the past. It'd be nice if they'd have the decency to tell us about these changes instead of just hoping we don't figure it out...

« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 18:55 »
0

We need downloadable CSV format sales and earnings data so we can keep track of things.

 

Fully support that among all the other great points made with this post!    Its frustrating trying to decipher obscure figures that one sees more and more often it seems...  :(

dpimborough

« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2014, 03:31 »
0
Well it's an old thread but I can beat that

LEL sale today netted me $0.12

twelve cents  :'(


« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2014, 00:32 »
0
So what is the story? Was this a mistake?

dpimborough

« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2014, 03:52 »
0
So what is the story? Was this a mistake?

No mistake Jo Ann here's part of the response

"Kindly note that your image has been sold for a custom LEL for 1 credit for editiorial use for a 123RF Sponsored Program. "

There was a table with calculations etc


C'est la vie  :'(

« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2014, 00:10 »
+2
And are you at the 30% royalty level (12 cents is 30% of 40 cents, supposedly the minimum per credit value for royalty purposes)?

That's an amazingly low amount though, whatever the license...

dpimborough

« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2014, 04:24 »
+1
And are you at the 30% royalty level (12 cents is 30% of 40 cents, supposedly the minimum per credit value for royalty purposes)?

That's an amazingly low amount though, whatever the license...

Yup the 30% level

1 Credit
Royalty tier = 30% (Level 1)
Earning = 0.12  :'(

« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2014, 06:05 »
+2
Judging by trends at few sites we are reaching the point where contributors will be charged for their sales.

Most probably the explanation will be something like ... " we are heavily helping you to promote your work with our sales"  ;)

« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2014, 06:58 »
+1
U$ 0.12? I'm outta here.

« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2014, 16:05 »
+1
Question for Angel:

Can a LEL include canvas prints being sold for resale?  I recently found an image of mine being sold as a POD canvas print through a company called Epic Art.  And they're apparently reselling the same image through Wallmart and Wayfair.  I'm trying to track down the original license before I contact them.  I did find a 123RF LEL license sold for this image for which I received $5.63.  Still have some research to do though.  Thanks...


« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2014, 09:47 »
+4
Hi Sedge,

LEL is usually used for resale, just that it has a very restricted scope of usage.


Cheers,
Angel

Angel,
Could you please give an example of LEL uses? I am a little lost here, a license that allows resale and contributor earns as little as 0.12$? How restricted can it be? I personally got a few between $2 and $5. I cant imagine to give my images away at that price for the buyer even re-sell ONE copy of it. Thank you for some clarification!


« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2014, 05:27 »
+10
Hi Asami,

Please find few examples of LEL as below:
  • The content can solely use for a print product with lower print run.
  • The content can solely use for CD.
  • The content can solely use for TV advertisement.

Please note that pricing of LEL varies based on the extent of usage.

Hope this can clear your doubt.


Cheers,
Angel

I can't imagine any usage example that justifies a contributor royalty of 12 cents. Why don't you just stop those deals and find something that pays HIGHER prices instead?
Oh, and by the way, trash your stupid RC scheme and go back to 50% flat.

« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2014, 06:09 »
+6
i agree. Earnings on 123rf are too low, you are too much greedy. Stop lowering prices also for customers.

dpimborough

« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2014, 11:03 »
+5
Huh! what! I made a query about a $0.12 LEL and now all of a sudden I have 100% rejection on my latest image submissions all for "Poor Composition"??

What is this some kind of retaliation?

And to put it in context I never had more than a total of 5 or 10 rejects out of over 800 shots submitted in the last 12 months  >:(

Yeah call me paranoid it's just too convenient  :o

Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2014, 13:15 »
+1
Hi Asami,

Please find few examples of LEL as below:
  • The content can solely use for a print product with lower print run.
  • The content can solely use for CD.
  • The content can solely use for TV advertisement.

Please note that pricing of LEL varies based on the extent of usage.

Hope this can clear your doubt.


Cheers,
Angel

I can't imagine any usage example that justifies a contributor royalty of 12 cents. Why don't you just stop those deals and find something that pays HIGHER prices instead?
Oh, and by the way, trash your stupid RC scheme and go back to 50% flat.

+1

« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2015, 02:50 »
0
I had one LEL this month. It netted me 6.09$. I'm a level 2 contributor.


 

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