MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Alamy.com => Topic started by: JetCityImage on April 05, 2018, 07:42

Title: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: JetCityImage on April 05, 2018, 07:42
So this arrived this morning...

https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp)

What stood out:

If you agree to Image Options you grant Alamy the right to carry out certain pre-formatting changes to the Images prior to release for licensing, and;

Alamy shall act as an agent in respect of the Images.

Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: SuperPhoto on April 05, 2018, 08:41
What does this mean "Alamy shall act as an agent in respect of the Images" in terms of how they were doing things before? (I didn't see what they had before)
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: JetCityImage on April 05, 2018, 08:47
Original statement: Alamy shall act as licensee in respect of the Images and does not act as an agent.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: amabu on April 05, 2018, 09:42
26th April 2017  :o
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: NeonRobot on April 06, 2018, 04:53
No earner to me, so not interested regarding any news from Alamy.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ShadySue on April 06, 2018, 06:13
What's the actual difference between an agent and a licensee*?
It was looked on as negative when iS moved away from being an agent to whatever they declared themselves to be instead.
*It seems a very odd use of the word 'licensee'.

Was this info in an email? If so, I didn't get it, but the Image Options thing has been aired on Alamy's forum.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ShadySue on April 06, 2018, 06:17
No earner to me, so not interested regarding any news from Alamy.
However, interested enough to look at, and reply to, a post on the Alamy board.

There is a way we can avoid seeing certain forums, I've done it in the past, but I can't remember how to do it. Hopefully, someone else can help.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 06, 2018, 10:13
26th April 2017  :o


26th April 2017  :) Must have been email stuck in a time machine?

Yes Sue it's well hidden:  http://www.microstockgroup.com/profile/?area=ignoreboards;u=60081 (http://www.microstockgroup.com/profile/?area=ignoreboards;u=60081)

Ignore Boards Options - I just turned off the foreign language boards since I can't read any of them. Not sure if I need to logout and back in, to have the changes take effect?

Oh I get it... This page lets you ignore particular boards. When a board is ignored, the new post indicator will not show up on the board index. New posts will not show up using the "unread post" search link (when searching it will not look in those boards) however, ignored boards will still appear on the board index and upon entering will show which topics have new posts. When using the "unread replies" link, new posts in an ignored board will still be shown.


Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: MarcvsTvllivs on April 06, 2018, 11:41
What's the actual difference between an agent and a licensee*?
It was looked on as negative when iS moved away from being an agent to whatever they declared themselves to be instead.
*It seems a very odd use of the word 'licensee'.

Was this info in an email? If so, I didn't get it, but the Image Options thing has been aired on Alamy's forum.

As a licensee, they received a license from the photographer and then granted a sublicense to the buyer. As an agent, they grant a license directly from the photographer (acting as an agent in the photographer's name) to the buyer.

It makes Alamy's business into a commission agent model: they sell things directly in their own name that they do not own, for the account of a third party principal (us), and then arrange for direct fulfilment of the sale by the principal. In return, they get to keep a commission.

At least that's how I understand it. And I am not sure that it makes terribly much of a difference to us (but stand ready to be corrected -- maybe on the accounting side?). That will take some deep thinking though, which I am sure Alamy's lawyers have done (scary thought of the day!).

Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ShadySue on April 10, 2018, 08:07
I just got the letter today, and it is dated as a contract change of 10th April 2018.
Haven't read it through, but I noticed this, which hasn't been thought through:
"Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, ... and does not include ... any personal details from which a living person can be identified."
I don't think that's what they mean, or else they are going to lose a lot of sales from searches relating to well-known people.
However, even if it's not what they mean, it's what they said.

Full text:
"4:11 Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, Pseudonyms, agency names and descriptions only includes information that is pertaining to the specific Image itself, and does not include contact details, web addresses, Uniform Resource Locatorís (URLís), copyright and rights management information or any personal details from which a living person can be identified."
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 10, 2018, 08:20
I just got the letter today, and it is dated as a contract change of 10th April 2018.
Haven't read it through, but I noticed this, which hasn't been thought through:
"Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, ... and does not include ... any personal details from which a living person can be identified."
I don't think that's what they mean, or else they are going to lose a lot of sales from searches relating to well-known people.
However, even if it's not what they mean, it's what they said.

Full text:
"4:11 Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, Pseudonyms, agency names and descriptions only includes information that is pertaining to the specific Image itself, and does not include contact details, web addresses, Uniform Resource Locatorís (URLís), copyright and rights management information or any personal details from which a living person can be identified."


You can't include in the EXIF or descriptions - your website, name, phone number, email, Etc... which would allow people to contact you directly? Not about famous people if I'm reading it right.

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp?utm_campaign=1157400_Contract%20Change%20-%20April%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy%20Contributors%20&dm_i=2SWW,OT20,12IO8X,2JDNC,1 (http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp?utm_campaign=1157400_Contract%20Change%20-%20April%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy%20Contributors%20&dm_i=2SWW,OT20,12IO8X,2JDNC,1)

Contract changes in case anyone didn't get the email.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ShadySue on April 10, 2018, 08:32
I just got the letter today, and it is dated as a contract change of 10th April 2018.
Haven't read it through, but I noticed this, which hasn't been thought through:
"Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, ... and does not include ... any personal details from which a living person can be identified."
I don't think that's what they mean, or else they are going to lose a lot of sales from searches relating to well-known people.
However, even if it's not what they mean, it's what they said.

Full text:
"4:11 Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, Pseudonyms, agency names and descriptions only includes information that is pertaining to the specific Image itself, and does not include contact details, web addresses, Uniform Resource Locatorís (URLís), copyright and rights management information or any personal details from which a living person can be identified."


You can't include in the EXIF or descriptions - your website, name, phone number, email, Etc... which would allow people to contact you directly? Not about famous people if I'm reading it right.

[url]http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp?utm_campaign=1157400_Contract%20Change%20-%20April%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy%20Contributors%20&dm_i=2SWW,OT20,12IO8X,2JDNC,1[/url] ([url]http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp?utm_campaign=1157400_Contract%20Change%20-%20April%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy%20Contributors%20&dm_i=2SWW,OT20,12IO8X,2JDNC,1[/url])


Guesses about what they might have intended has no legal standing. You may well be right, but they have said nothing about EXIF, only specifically "captions, keywords, pseudonyms, agency names and descriptions".
On a legal document, "if I'm reading it right" should not be a question.

Quote
Contract changes in case anyone didn't get the email.

Well, yes, that's the thread title.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: Dodie on April 10, 2018, 09:27
I received the email but Alamy's English is yet another foreign language to me, I never ubderstand what they really say.

Anyway, this last contract change is:
Quote
The latest version of the Alamy Contributor contract, published on 10th April, included some minor changes to our terms. Most of these changes have been made to reflect the new GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) policies.

Of course they doesn't reflect what they say, on the contrary, it violates GDPR policies but that is their problem.

What I would like to know, are there some changes in our commission?

What is the the difference between Alamy Distribution and Alamy Affiliate? What the he*l is affiliate provider?
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: Microstockphoto on April 10, 2018, 09:37
Quote
On a legal document, "if I'm reading it right" should not be a question.
legal documents always have some sort of ambiguousness to them otherwise there would be no neverending lawsuits and lawyers couldnt line their pockets
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ravens on April 10, 2018, 14:03
I just got the letter today, and it is dated as a contract change of 10th April 2018.
Haven't read it through, but I noticed this, which hasn't been thought through:
"Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, ... and does not include ... any personal details from which a living person can be identified."
I don't think that's what they mean, or else they are going to lose a lot of sales from searches relating to well-known people.
However, even if it's not what they mean, it's what they said.

Full text:
"4:11 Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, Pseudonyms, agency names and descriptions only includes information that is pertaining to the specific Image itself, and does not include contact details, web addresses, Uniform Resource Locatorís (URLís), copyright and rights management information or any personal details from which a living person can be identified."


You can't include in the EXIF or descriptions - your website, name, phone number, email, Etc... which would allow people to contact you directly? Not about famous people if I'm reading it right.

[url]http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp?utm_campaign=1157400_Contract%20Change%20-%20April%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy%20Contributors%20&dm_i=2SWW,OT20,12IO8X,2JDNC,1[/url] ([url]http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp?utm_campaign=1157400_Contract%20Change%20-%20April%202018&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy%20Contributors%20&dm_i=2SWW,OT20,12IO8X,2JDNC,1[/url])

Contract changes in case anyone didn't get the email.


Just by browsing Alamy images I've noticed that some contributors have the habit to put their username or studio name among keywords. Maybe this oddly written clause is added to put a stop to that.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ShadySue on April 10, 2018, 16:25
What is the the difference between Alamy Distribution and Alamy Affiliate? What the he*l is affiliate provider?

http://www.alamy.com/customer/help/affiliate-program.aspx (http://www.alamy.com/customer/help/affiliate-program.aspx)
Several of the micros have affiliate programs.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: MarcvsTvllivs on April 11, 2018, 05:38
Quote
On a legal document, "if I'm reading it right" should not be a question.
legal documents always have some sort of ambiguousness to them otherwise there would be no neverending lawsuits and lawyers couldnt line their pockets

Sigh.

Human language has ambiguity. Human interactions are complicated and have ambiguity. The lawyers that draft contracts don't make money from ambiguities and lawsuits -- quite the opposite. They are liable for them.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ShadySue on April 11, 2018, 05:50
Quote
On a legal document, "if I'm reading it right" should not be a question.
legal documents always have some sort of ambiguousness to them otherwise there would be no neverending lawsuits and lawyers couldnt line their pockets

Sigh.

Human language has ambiguity. Human interactions are complicated and have ambiguity. The lawyers that draft contracts don't make money from ambiguities and lawsuits -- quite the opposite. They are liable for them.

Alamy have apologised and are going to have that clause reworded.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: MarcvsTvllivs on April 11, 2018, 06:48
Quote
On a legal document, "if I'm reading it right" should not be a question.
legal documents always have some sort of ambiguousness to them otherwise there would be no neverending lawsuits and lawyers couldnt line their pockets

Sigh.

Human language has ambiguity. Human interactions are complicated and have ambiguity. The lawyers that draft contracts don't make money from ambiguities and lawsuits -- quite the opposite. They are liable for them.

Alamy have apologised and are going to have that clause reworded.

Good. I agree that it is not a well drafted clause for public terms.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: Alamy on April 11, 2018, 10:27
I just got the letter today, and it is dated as a contract change of 10th April 2018.
Haven't read it through, but I noticed this, which hasn't been thought through:
"Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, ... and does not include ... any personal details from which a living person can be identified."
I don't think that's what they mean, or else they are going to lose a lot of sales from searches relating to well-known people.
However, even if it's not what they mean, it's what they said.

Full text:
"4:11 Any information supplied for display with any Image, including captions, keywords, Pseudonyms, agency names and descriptions only includes information that is pertaining to the specific Image itself, and does not include contact details, web addresses, Uniform Resource Locatorís (URLís), copyright and rights management information or any personal details from which a living person can be identified."


Hi Everyone,

Apologies  for the confusion regarding the unclear wording of clause 4.11. We've updated the wording now to make it clearer. 

You can view the updated summary of changes here: http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp

And the updated full contract here: http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

If you've got any questions, please email the Contributor Relations team on [email protected]

Thanks,

Alamy
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: pancaketom on April 11, 2018, 10:44
I think the language was clear, it just didn't say what you wanted it to say.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: Microstockphoto on April 13, 2018, 01:52
marcus is completely misinterpreting what i am saying, and alamy has changed the language. ambiguity at its finest
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: ShadySue on April 13, 2018, 04:54
^^ Indeed, who decides what is 'legitimate'? The man in the Clapham omnibus?
Still, so much is legal ambiguity, like 'in the public interest'.
Title: Re: Alamy Record of contract changes...
Post by: MarcvsTvllivs on April 14, 2018, 05:58
marcus is completely misinterpreting what i am saying, and alamy has changed the language. ambiguity at its finest

What did I misinterpret? Really, please, I am curious. Maybe it was because of some ambiguity in your statement that ambiguities exist so that "lawyers can line their pockets"?