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Author Topic: Alamy sale for 7 cents  (Read 6747 times)

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« Reply #150 on: January 12, 2022, 13:27 »
0
Ah, ok, I thought it was meant for me.

Btw you can calculate cents too, hehe



Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2022, 11:53 »
+2
Ah, ok, I thought it was meant for me.

Btw you can calculate cents too, hehe

My mistakes, bad math and everything else, is meant for everyone, I wouldn't leave you out.  8)

What I meant was, I haven't had any distributor sales since May, so I haven't seen this terrible situation first hand. I feel lucky, but I'm sure I'll join the club of minuscule distributor download licenses.

The other just can't wait, is for Alamy to answer the contributor questions instead of claiming to be catching up after the holiday season. I need the expected dodge of the truth, twisted reasoning, and ignoring the obvious facts, for some humor and entertainment.

« Reply #152 on: January 14, 2022, 12:53 »
+1
Hi All,

I've just posted this message on our official forum so thought it would also be good to post here.

Apologies on the radio silence up to this point whilst we investigate what's been happening with these sales via a Chinese distributor. The detail is more complex than it appears and we are still picking through the data to ascertain whats involved and how it has come to pass.

I'd also like to apologise for posting this on what is a Friday afternoon here in the UK. It's never the best time to post replies and I'm aware there will may be suspicions that this is some kind of deliberate tactic of waiting for a quiet period but I can assure you it isn't.

I'll be back in touch next week to share more detail of what has happened with this flurry of sales through the Chinese distribution channel. For now though I wanted to confirm that this level of pricing is not some radical new approach that we've taken on that will be rolled out across all sales. I also want to be honest though and say that these types of deals are a requirement in todays market so you will see them from time to time, and we're not alone as an agency in having to provide such licence types.

Our average price for per licence remains remarkably stable and has done since 2017. 2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 - namely, an average of between $26 and $30 per licence. On an individual level it was a record year for submissions and photographer registrations so that may naturally dilute the earnings for photographers who are facing more competition than ever. Our job is to continue to grow sales in order to grow as a business of course but also be a viable earning platform for this growing number of contributors. It's a tough, competitive market but we have some ambitious and exciting plans which we hope you can all be part of with us.

Low value sales like you've seen here are not encouraging of course and I'm not going to pretend they are, but taken in as part of a bigger picture where our average price remains stable and higher than our key competition - and our plans for growth are very promising - I hope those who are dissuaded from contributing as a result may reconsider and continue to work with us as we grow.

James Allsworth
Head of Content

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #153 on: January 14, 2022, 14:01 »
+4
2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 - namely, an average of between $26 and $30 per licence. ... ... part of a bigger picture where our average price remains stable ...
That's strange, because on your current as-of-this-minute "Why should I sell stock imagery on Alamy?" page, which was written in May 2019*, it says, "The average image license fee on Alamy is $90".
https://www.alamy.com/contributor/why-alamy/how-much-money-can-i-make/?section=4

* <meta property="article:modified_time" content="2019-05-15T09:26:13+00:00" />
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 14:53 by ShadySue »

« Reply #154 on: January 14, 2022, 14:07 »
+2
Thanks for the first explanation. Unfortunately, it still does not provide no clarity about what exactly those low amounts are.
What worries me a bit, that the topics on the Alamy forum is closed with the same announcement. https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15214-not-selling-for-pennies/?ct=1642187191  and https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15213-selling-for-pennies/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-307654&ct=1641383040 . Maybe because until a full explanation of Alamy it doesn't make much sense to discuss it?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 14:31 by thijsdegraaf »

« Reply #155 on: January 14, 2022, 14:15 »
0
.

« Reply #156 on: January 14, 2022, 14:18 »
+8
... these types of deals are a requirement in todays market so you will see them from time to time, and we're not alone as an agency in having to provide such licence types.

4 cent royalties for a contributor on any type of sale is a complete non-starter.

Unless the volume is through the roof (which is not a sustainable situation for a perpetual royalty-free license) single digit cents just doesn't cover anyone creating content for you, no matter how low they keep their costs.

I've already made my decision - I started my 45-day termination clock earlier this month - but no matter how hard you look into it, you have two major problems. One is the pittance for royalties, and it isn't just the Chinese distributor at the end of December - I had an 8 cent royalty on a direct sale from Alamy in November. The other is your change in royalty structure that cuts a contributor's royalty from 40% to 20% when the July 2021 - July 2022 gross sales total is less than $250.

Once, that tiny gross sales figure would have been a doddle to exceed, but with 21 cent gross direct sales and 15 cent distributor sales not meeting the threshold suddenly becomes much more likely. Alamy gets to grab a larger slice of the pie the worse the contributors' situation gets. In my book, that's not reasonable.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 14:27 by Jo Ann Snover »

« Reply #157 on: January 14, 2022, 14:31 »
0
... these types of deals are a requirement in todays market so you will see them from time to time, and we're not alone as an agency in having to provide such licence types.

4 cent royalties for a contributor on any type of sale is a complete non-starter.

Unless the volume is through the roof (which is not a sustainable situation for a perpetual royalty-free license) single digit cents just doesn't cover anyone creating content for you, no matter how low they keep their costs.

I've already made my decision - I started my 45-day termination clock earlier this month - but no matter how hard you look into it, you have two major problems. One is the pittance for royalties, and it isn't just the Chinese distributor at the end of December - I had an 8 cent royalty on a direct sale from Alamy in November. The other is your change in royalty structure that cuts a contributor's royalty from 40% to 20% when the July 2021 - July 2022 gross sales total is less than $250.

Once, that tiny gross sales figure would have been a doddle to exceed, but with 21 cent gross direct sales and 15 cent distributor sales it suddenly becomes much more likely. Alamy gets to grab a larger slice of the pie the worse the contributors' situation gets. In my book, that's not reasonable.

I take your point on the lower value sales and as I said before, Im not going to pretend that those lower values are an incentive for contributors - but big picture is that we are making more sales and our average price is very stable and has been for a number of years. It means that anyone making 7-8 sales per year on average will stay in the standard 60/40 split, and for any that dont, you still get promoted to the 60/40 as soon as you hit $250 gross if you are on 80/20.

Best,

James

« Reply #158 on: January 14, 2022, 14:33 »
0
2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 - namely, an average of between $26 and $30 per licence. ... ... part of a bigger picture where our average price remains stable ...
That's strange, because on your current as-of-this-minute "Why should I sell stock imagery on Alamy?" page, which was written in May 2019*, it says, "The average image license fee on Alamy is $90".
https://www.alamy.com/contributor/why-alamy/how-much-money-can-i-make/?section=4

* <meta property="article:modified_time" content="2019-05-15T09:26:13+00:00" />

Its not strange - just a miss on our part. This page is outdated, and Ill make sure the correct info is added - I genuinely appreciate you flagging it.

Weve been pretty consistent and open about the $30 average over the last few years in our comms with contributors and official forum and blog. This page should have been updated but was missed - no excuses.

James

« Reply #159 on: January 14, 2022, 14:37 »
0
Thanks for the first explanation. Unfortunately, it still does not provide no clarity about what exactly those low amounts are.
What worries me a bit, that the topics on the Alamy forum is closed with the same announcement. https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15214-not-selling-for-pennies/?ct=1642187191  and https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15213-selling-for-pennies/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-307654&ct=1641383040 . Maybe because until a full explanation of Alamy it doesn't make much sense to discuss it?

They were combined and locked to try and keep confusion down whilst we are investigating.

Ive just unlocked the main thread in the main section on the official forum and should be able to provide a further update next week.

We have no plans or desire to close down our forum or stifle any kind of discussion that is constructive.

Best,

James A

« Reply #160 on: January 14, 2022, 14:54 »
+1
Thanks for the first explanation. Unfortunately, it still does not provide no clarity about what exactly those low amounts are.
What worries me a bit, that the topics on the Alamy forum is closed with the same announcement. https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15214-not-selling-for-pennies/?ct=1642187191  and https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15213-selling-for-pennies/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-307654&ct=1641383040 . Maybe because until a full explanation of Alamy it doesn't make much sense to discuss it?

They were combined and locked to try and keep confusion down whilst we are investigating.

Ive just unlocked the main thread in the main section on the official forum and should be able to provide a further update next week.

We have no plans or desire to close down our forum or stifle any kind of discussion that is constructive.

Best,

James A

Thanks, I'll wait for further information.
It would have been clearer to post an explanation when closing the topics that it was temporary, until further explanation could be given.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 15:24 by thijsdegraaf »

SVH

« Reply #161 on: January 14, 2022, 15:10 »
0
I guess that the reason they are responding here means that sh*t is hitting the fan. I imagine panic is all around at the head office by now. Pulling out, by you and probably many others, has had a substantial impact. But then again Alamy was going nowhere anyways but rock bottom. Glad that I got out a few months ago. They will probably sell your photos for every bid at the end and they will end up as free picks somewhere. Last straws.
Bye, bye, Alamy.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 15:21 by SVH »

« Reply #162 on: January 14, 2022, 16:05 »
+1
Ten sales today in China for 15c, all vectors, when I signed up to sell vectors on this site they assured me that they would sell for $30.00 each.

They have over the last five or so years renaged on this contract, dropping the price over and over again, tell they have reached rock bottom of 15c.

Alamy used to give it's profits to Charity, but since it has sold it's soul to PA Media Group (which really is the Daily Mail newspaper, owned by Viscount Rothermere a notorious tax avoiding family, he and his father have never paid any tax in the UK, his father was a well known supporter of Adolf Hitler). I write this, so you know the type of people and the context of the situation.

What is basically going on is exploitation, personally I'm never uploading to them again.

The Microstock market is a money grab by the wealthy, one has to ask one self, don't these people have enough already?

I'm moving in to different creative markets and leaving Microstock behind, after 12 years of designing, illustrating and photographing along with thousands of hours keywording and uploading, I will just leave my portfolios to run their course and then when they stop making money, I will delete them, with the exception of Adobe.

Anyone who is sane will do the same.
Well said. I'll think twice about staying with alamy with t''' s like that now owning it & they've halved the commission as well but for me it's 20% of nothing as i've only had 3 DLs there in 2 years.

« Reply #163 on: January 14, 2022, 16:30 »
+5
... but big picture is that we are making more sales and our average price is very stable and has been for a number of years. It means that anyone making 7-8 sales per year on average will stay in the standard 60/40 split, and for any that dont, you still get promoted to the 60/40 as soon as you hit $250 gross if you are on 80/20

I had many more sales than your 7-8 annual average in just the second half of 2021, but the average (gross) sale was just $4.48. Compare that to the first half of 2021 (again multiple times your supposed annual average) where my average gross sale was $50.29. Or compare that to 2018 where my average gross sale was $49.66.

I obviously can't explain why your stable average price over time doesn't in any way match up with my own experience, but I think if Alamy were confident in the stability of sales it wouldn't be penalizing contributors by reducing their royalty split.

Edited to add that my numbers were just for sales (gross), not including the DACS and ASCRL payments (another post mentioned that their numbers included DACS, etc. thus boosting the average sale numbers
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 21:22 by Jo Ann Snover »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #164 on: January 14, 2022, 16:45 »
+7
I guess that the reason they are responding here means that sh*t is hitting the fan. I imagine panic is all around at the head office by now. Pulling out, by you and probably many others, has had a substantial impact. But then again Alamy was going nowhere anyways but rock bottom. Glad that I got out a few months ago. They will probably sell your photos for every bid at the end and they will end up as free picks somewhere. Last straws.
Bye, bye, Alamy.

This is why representatives from most of the agencies never come here, or stopped after a small number of visits. People like you who find something wrong with everything. And when they do try to answer you find something wrong with that too? James has been here many times before and over many years. The least people here could do is act like adults and a little bit professional?


Posts:
    173
Date Registered:
    February 12, 2013, 04:25
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 16:51 by Uncle Pete »

« Reply #165 on: January 14, 2022, 17:17 »
+2
2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 - namely, an average of between $26 and $30 per licence. ... ... part of a bigger picture where our average price remains stable ...
That's strange, because on your current as-of-this-minute "Why should I sell stock imagery on Alamy?" page, which was written in May 2019*, it says, "The average image license fee on Alamy is $90".
https://www.alamy.com/contributor/why-alamy/how-much-money-can-i-make/?section=4

* <meta property="article:modified_time" content="2019-05-15T09:26:13+00:00" />

Its not strange - just a miss on our part. This page is outdated, and Ill make sure the correct info is added - I genuinely appreciate you flagging it.

Weve been pretty consistent and open about the $30 average over the last few years in our comms with contributors and official forum and blog. This page should have been updated but was missed - no excuses.

James
I'm afraid you should update the info from $90 average to $3 for 2022.
There's is another problem: many contributors who opted out from distributor sales got $0.04 from those Chinese distributor sales?

« Reply #166 on: January 14, 2022, 17:24 »
+4
When someone is rapidly buying a ton of images for pennies, it's obviously for resale at much higher prices.

As soon as I got some of those  4 cent sales I closed my account.  I see nothing to discuss.

SVH

« Reply #167 on: January 14, 2022, 17:30 »
+1
I guess that the reason they are responding here means that sh*t is hitting the fan. I imagine panic is all around at the head office by now. Pulling out, by you and probably many others, has had a substantial impact. But then again Alamy was going nowhere anyways but rock bottom. Glad that I got out a few months ago. They will probably sell your photos for every bid at the end and they will end up as free picks somewhere. Last straws.
Bye, bye, Alamy.

This is why representatives from most of the agencies never come here, or stopped after a small number of visits. People like you who find something wrong with everything. And when they do try to answer you find something wrong with that too? James has been here many times before and over many years. The least people here could do is act like adults and a little bit professional?


Posts:
    173
Date Registered:
    February 12, 2013, 04:25


Well Pete, let's wait and see for a couple of months where Alamy will be at by then and then we'll talk again. Or are you still seeing a bright future for them? I don't but what do I know :)

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #168 on: January 14, 2022, 18:03 »
+4
2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 - namely, an average of between $26 and $30 per licence. ... ... part of a bigger picture where our average price remains stable ...
That's strange, because on your current as-of-this-minute "Why should I sell stock imagery on Alamy?" page, which was written in May 2019*, it says, "The average image license fee on Alamy is $90".
https://www.alamy.com/contributor/why-alamy/how-much-money-can-i-make/?section=4

* <meta property="article:modified_time" content="2019-05-15T09:26:13+00:00" />

Its not strange - just a miss on our part. This page is outdated, and Ill make sure the correct info is added - I genuinely appreciate you flagging it.

Weve been pretty consistent and open about the $30 average over the last few years in our comms with contributors and official forum and blog. This page should have been updated but was missed - no excuses.

James

Glad to be of service. ::)

Still, in the interest of transparency, you should quote the average NET, which is the only realistic figure for contributors. And to inform newbies fairly, it should be the net since our share was cut. Because for sure while your image average may be stable, Alamy has ensured that ours certainly isn't.  And make sure you're including all these tiny Chinese, and other, sales in that average.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 18:57 by ShadySue »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #169 on: January 14, 2022, 19:29 »
+4
we have some ambitious and exciting plans which we hope you can all be part of with us.
Oh, if we only had $10 for every time we've been promised that.
We know that the word exciting generally means "We're going to screw you even more".
It would be nice to be surprised this time; but I'm not holding my breath. "A cynic is a disappointed optimist". (George Carlin, paraphrased)

« Reply #170 on: January 14, 2022, 21:09 »
+4
Thanks for coming here and talking too us. I still think you need to have a floor on what people can sell our images at - and anything that gets us single digit cents is too low. Especially if a distributor isn't delivering any higher prices sales, as far as I'm concerned, the contributors and Alamy are better off without them.

In the interest of average sales over the last few years - all are rounded...

year             gross avg sale        my avg take per sale
2016               34                        18
2017               78                        36         a good year
2018               50.5                     26.5
2019               44.5                     20
2020               39                        17
2021               20                        9

That said, I did make slightly more in 2021 than in 2020, but it wasn't the $1.50 or whatever I made from the 4 cent sales that did it.

edited to add my take includes DACS and ASCRL and so on, so is higher than the actual sale number,
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 21:13 by pancaketom »

« Reply #171 on: Yesterday at 02:02 »
+6

Our average price for per licence remains remarkably stable and has done since 2017. 2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 - namely, an average of between $26 and $30 per licence.

- but big picture is that we are making more sales and our average price is very stable and has been for a number of years. It means that anyone making 7-8 sales per year on average will stay in the standard 60/40 split, and for any that dont, you still get promoted to the 60/40 as soon as you hit $250 gross.

I think you are missing our point here. Our complaint is not that Alamy hasn't had a stable price per licence since 2017 till 2021, but that is about to change now that you have introduced tiny cent sales and commission cuts. We aren't complaining about the past, but about the current changes and what they mean for our future.
You say that anyone who makes 7-8 sales per year should make $250 gross and stay in the standard 60/40 split?  I had 7 sales just in the past two weeks and you know what my gross for these 7 sales is? $36. That's an average of 5.1$ per image and something like 2-3$ after you take your share, a far cry from your $26 and $30 per licence, so it doesn't look like you will be able to offer stable prices per licence any longer.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:17 by Firn »

« Reply #172 on: Yesterday at 03:54 »
+3
this is not China!

Country: United Kingdom
Usage: Editorial, Use in syndicated editorial news features, single context only. Includes archive rights in-perpetuity.
Media: Newspaper - national
64 MB
4400 x 5071 pixels
759KB compressed
Print run: Unlimited
Placement: National
Image Size: up to full area
Start: 22 November 2021
Duration: In perpetuity

for 18 Cents minus 60 %.... do you want me to ad more examples????

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #173 on: Yesterday at 05:38 »
+4
Gross is highly misleading, I'll stick with net in my pocket on average per sale since 2017.

Quote
Our average price for per licence remains remarkably stable and has done since 2017. 2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020

Certainly not in my case  :-[
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:43 by Brasilnut »

« Reply #174 on: Yesterday at 07:15 »
+3
I guess that the reason they are responding here means that sh*t is hitting the fan. I imagine panic is all around at the head office by now. Pulling out, by you and probably many others, has had a substantial impact. But then again Alamy was going nowhere anyways but rock bottom. Glad that I got out a few months ago. They will probably sell your photos for every bid at the end and they will end up as free picks somewhere. Last straws.
Bye, bye, Alamy.

This is why representatives from most of the agencies never come here, or stopped after a small number of visits. People like you who find something wrong with everything. And when they do try to answer you find something wrong with that too? James has been here many times before and over many years. The least people here could do is act like adults and a little bit professional?


Posts:
    173
Date Registered:
    February 12, 2013, 04:25


Well Pete, let's wait and see for a couple of months where Alamy will be at by then and then we'll talk again. Or are you still seeing a bright future for them? I don't but what do I know :)

If you don't know the difference between attacking James and being angry over 7 cents commissions, or low price sales, then it's no use explaining, grow up.


 

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