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Author Topic: Alamy sale for 7 cents  (Read 67610 times)

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Just_to_inform_people2

« Reply #175 on: January 15, 2022, 08:38 »
+2
If you don't know the difference between attacking James and being angry over 7 cents commissions, or low price sales, then it's no use explaining, grow up.
Well Yada,
first of all I did not attack anyone. If so, please point out where I attacked James himself. I merely contemplated about a company called Alamy and what situation it is in. Secondly I am not with Alamy anymore for a few months now so I did not get the fun of getting frustrated over the low sales/commissions as others have had.
The microstock business is a very competitive one these days and I definitely think that if you are not one of the big three you will probably dissapear in a few years time. Selling assets for such low prices in China looks to me as an example of last straws. Alamy probably knew the risk they were taking with their contributors but maybe they did not have a choice and went ahead with it? It's just an opinion.

And try to relax, it's the weekend :)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 08:48 by SVH »


Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #176 on: January 15, 2022, 09:45 »
0
Gross is highly misleading, I'll stick with net in my pocket on average per sale since 2017.

Quote
Our average price for per licence remains remarkably stable and has done since 2017. 2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020

Certainly not in my case  :-[

Mine don't seem to support that claim either.

I doubt that I'll make enough for the 40% level between June and June. The problem being the same as others have noticed. Sales of license value has declined, so income has declined. I don't have novel use licenses and not any of the cheap distributor sales. Probably because I don't upload Microstock to Alamy.


« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 13:36 by Uncle Pete »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2022, 10:08 »
+4
Remember that the Alamy average includes Live News sales, which typically sell for decent prices.
Though over the past few months, that seems not to be always so.
From what I read, and if I understand correctly, Alamy used to put Live News on sale immediately and push it out to its news buyers. Then after 48 hrs IIRC, the Live News images went into the general stock collection and could be bought at the buyer's usual stock rate.
It looks like now - presumably as well as the above - Live News images go straight into the general stock collection, and some previous LN buyers have cottoned on, so people are seeing their images, submitted as Live News, in use within even 24 hrs but later discover they sold at the stock rate, often heavily discounted, rather than at the Live News rate.
That will pull the average Alamy gross, as well as net, down.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 10:42 by ShadySue »

« Reply #178 on: January 15, 2022, 13:06 »
+1
another major reason to not submit is alamy's ridiculous policies of rejecting all batches in q if ONE image is rejected

thijsdegraaf

« Reply #179 on: January 15, 2022, 13:29 »
+2
another major reason to not submit is alamy's ridiculous policies of rejecting all batches in q if ONE image is rejected

Every disadvantage has it's advantage. Due to the less strict control, unlike Adobe and Shutter, I have never had anything rejected. Even when I accidentally uploaded a photo, which I had already uploaded just before (I will not upload photos rejected by both SS and AS). But I think you're uploading a lot more photos at once when I look at your amount of photos on Shutter. Then I can imagine that it is annoying.
I'll wait until July to decide what to do.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 15:13 by thijsdegraaf »

Just_to_inform_people2

« Reply #180 on: January 15, 2022, 13:50 »
0
I have never had anything rejected. Even when I accidentally uploaded a photo, which I had already uploaded just before.
I guess that is a sign as well. Accepting almost anything to get their numbers up. I wonder how many of their 282,234,520 stock photos is really worth wile.
(Not intending there is something wrong with your specific photos offcourse, before I get misunderstood :) )

« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2022, 14:27 »
+3
Sales of license value has declined, so income has declined.


Yepp- same over here.
In 2021 nearly twice as many sales as in 2020 but only 3/4 income of the 2020 figures....

More sales, less income.

« Reply #182 on: January 15, 2022, 14:36 »
+2
unlike Adobe and Shutter, I have never had anything rejected.

But thats also a very dangerous side of the Alamy business- they dont care at all if you upload stuff with no permission or release and get in trouble later on.

Esp Shutterstock looks very closely to what is allowed and what not (and might better work as editorial). I always hated SS rejections and closed my account last year due to the .10 sales. But I did learn alot about laws and releases from them.

Alamy does not care at all about restrictions. If you get in trouble later on - its gonna be you to fight and pay the lawyer.....

I see an unbelieveable amount of pics on Alamy showing either people they have no release for, buildings I know which are strictly forbidden to capture and sale or taken in public areas with entrance fees which usually also deny taking pics for commercial use.

And we all have heard of those advocats searching the internet for "wrong" pics with no relase to sue the photographer...

Thats the weak side of Alamy.


thijsdegraaf

« Reply #183 on: January 15, 2022, 14:55 »
0
unlike Adobe and Shutter, I have never had anything rejected.

But thats also a very dangerous side of the Alamy business- they dont care at all if you upload stuff with no permission or release and get in trouble later on.

Esp Shutterstock looks very closely to what is allowed and what not (and might better work as editorial). I always hated SS rejections and closed my account last year due to the .10 sales. But I did learn alot about laws and releases from them.

Alamy does not care at all about restrictions. If you get in trouble later on - its gonna be you to fight and pay the lawyer.....

I see an unbelieveable amount of pics on Alamy showing either people they have no release for, buildings I know which are strictly forbidden to capture and sale or taken in public areas with entrance fees which usually also deny taking pics for commercial use.

And we all have heard of those advocats searching the internet for "wrong" pics with no relase to sue the photographer...

Thats the weak side of Alamy.

You've got that right. I adhere to Shutterstock's rules when uploading to Alamy. Except gavity's. Because I think that at Shutterstock is still exaggerated.

« Reply #184 on: January 15, 2022, 18:02 »
+3
another major reason to not submit is alamy's ridiculous policies of rejecting all batches in q if ONE image is rejected

Every disadvantage has it's advantage. Due to the less strict control, unlike Adobe and Shutter, I have never had anything rejected. Even when I accidentally uploaded a photo, which I had already uploaded just before (I will not upload photos rejected by both SS and AS). But I think you're uploading a lot more photos at once when I look at your amount of photos on Shutter. Then I can imagine that it is annoying.
I'll wait until July to decide what to do.

i usually only give alamy 15-20 at a time - they reject images already taken by SS & AS.  i used to upload several batches at a time until I found out all batches were rejected if any of them had a rejected image. given their poor sales & much lowered avg sale price (often gobbled by multiple deductions), they're my lowest priority  for uploadsuploads

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #185 on: January 17, 2022, 09:09 »
+5
Meanwhile, I now have five sales this month.
Gross average: $4.20, net average: $1.68.
My highest-value sale is a Personal Use sale.

That 'why sell with Alamy - what can I earn?' page should have two net averages quoted, from after the recent royalty heist:
- one for regular stock.
- and, separately, the Live News net average from after the policy change where some are sold as regular stock at deep discounts.
Otherwise, it's just false enticement (there's probably a legal term for it) as even the gross average will predictably be much lower going forward, and newbies won't average that much.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 10:32 by ShadySue »

« Reply #186 on: January 17, 2022, 13:48 »
+8
On Alamy's forums, a user posts two sales to UK national papers for 17 cents apiece (gross)

https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15213-selling-for-pennies/?do=findComment&comment=308550


The statement Alamy made that 7 to 8 sales annually would top the $250 threshold to keep the 40% royalty rate seems like a joke paired with the above sale. To save anyone else doing the math, you would need 1,471 sales at that price to top $250 gross...
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 13:56 by Jo Ann Snover »

thijsdegraaf

« Reply #187 on: January 17, 2022, 14:16 »
+2
I looked at my sales figures in a year. Credit: 50.00 + 17.38 + 6.72 + 39.09 + 5.40 + 5.34 + 3.41 = 127.34 . For me it's nonsense (7 to 8 sales annually would top the $250 threshold).
I need at least 14 sales. But I know that at Shutterstock there are a lot of people who receive a much higher average price per photo than me. So it also depends on the quality/type of photo.
I don't know for how many people this statement is true (if the ... cents of sales are not included).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 15:50 by thijsdegraaf »

« Reply #188 on: January 17, 2022, 18:21 »
+4
Checked my sales from 01.July 2021 until today:
-> 49 sales for a sum of $121,32 (this is the sum alamy got)

This is an average of $2,48 per sale - to get the $250 threshold (and the 40% rank), it would need 101 sales per year.

So 7 or 8 sales is just a very bad joke...

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #189 on: January 18, 2022, 09:05 »
+8
Another quote from a long-established Alamy contributor today:
"When the recent Storm Barra was due to hit the Irish coast I got to location really early to get live news shots as it arrived. From that shoot I got 7 images used fairly quickly. Licence fee's were 0.58, 0.58, 0.63, 0.58, 0.58, 0.66, 0.66. Which never mind my time, it would not even cover the fuel to get there and back. Live news for me now is a very hard look at effort  v possible reward before the car gets started. "
https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/15213-selling-for-pennies/page/7/#comments

« Reply #190 on: January 20, 2022, 20:38 »
+9
...I'll be back in touch next week to share more detail of what has happened ...

It's nearly the end of "next week" now - Thursday evening on the US West Coast and very early Friday morning in the UK. I looked in the Alamy forums and don't see any update (other than the previously locked threads have been mostly unlocked).

Even if the update is to give a new date for an update, something from Alamy would be appreciated.

« Reply #191 on: January 21, 2022, 03:53 »
+4
Hi All,

I've just posted this message on our official forum so thought it would also be good to post here.

Apologies on the radio silence up to this point whilst we investigate what's been happening with these sales via a Chinese distributor. The detail is more complex than it appears and we are still picking through the data to ascertain whats involved and how it has come to pass.

I'd also like to apologise for posting this on what is a Friday afternoon here in the UK. It's never the best time to post replies and I'm aware there will may be suspicions that this is some kind of deliberate tactic of waiting for a quiet period but I can assure you it isn't.

I'll be back in touch next week to share more detail of what has happened with this flurry of sales through the Chinese distribution channel. For now though I wanted to confirm that this level of pricing is not some radical new approach that we've taken on that will be rolled out across all sales. I also want to be honest though and say that these types of deals are a requirement in todays market so you will see them from time to time, and we're not alone as an agency in having to provide such licence types.

Our average price for per licence remains remarkably stable and has done since 2017. 2021 had the average licence price in the same bracket as 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 - namely, an average of between $26 and $30 per licence. On an individual level it was a record year for submissions and photographer registrations so that may naturally dilute the earnings for photographers who are facing more competition than ever. Our job is to continue to grow sales in order to grow as a business of course but also be a viable earning platform for this growing number of contributors. It's a tough, competitive market but we have some ambitious and exciting plans which we hope you can all be part of with us.

Low value sales like you've seen here are not encouraging of course and I'm not going to pretend they are, but taken in as part of a bigger picture where our average price remains stable and higher than our key competition - and our plans for growth are very promising - I hope those who are dissuaded from contributing as a result may reconsider and continue to work with us as we grow.

James Allsworth
Head of Content

While I appreciate the feedback, the hard reality is Alamy is not worth the effort anymore.

I work full time at this and I need to make sure my time is used effectively. Those low value sales, which after Alamy takes their cut are nearly 3 times lower than the smallest payment I receive from Shutterstock.... which in itself  is a disgrace. You are no where near AS in terms of income possibilities... not even the same universe.

However, add to that the low volume of sales at Alamy, as in less than 50 a day, you don't have the ability to make up for it in terms of volume of sales.

Then there is also the uploading and keyword system. I can't even upload all my images, hit submit and be done. No, not at Alamy... I then have to go through each and every one and select 10 top ranking keywords, select a number of drop downs spread over two pages and then save them (top 10 taken automatically at AS). It's not like submitting a large batch is any better because there are too many individual options for each and very easy to overwrite other files by mistake. I admit it's not the worst submission process.... looking at you iStock, but it's way too much for what is now a tiny amount of income compared to the main micros. I remember when $500 net was relatively easy... now $100 gross is an achievement some months even with 25 sales.

The top and bottom of it for me is your system is too much work for too little gain... you have priced yourself out the market in terms of new content and I don't, won't supply anything new to Alamy anymore.

Summary...

Low licence fees + Low volume of sales
Reduced commission
Higher levels of work to submit content
Long...long.....looooooong wait times to receive money from clients.
6 - 12 months after a sale.... still a chance for the item to then be refunded!

« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 04:07 by HalfFull »

« Reply #192 on: January 21, 2022, 07:27 »
+2
...I'll be back in touch next week to share more detail of what has happened ...

It's nearly the end of "next week" now - Thursday evening on the US West Coast and very early Friday morning in the UK. I looked in the Alamy forums and don't see any update (other than the previously locked threads have been mostly unlocked).

Even if the update is to give a new date for an update, something from Alamy would be appreciated.



>>>>"I'll be back in touch next week to share more detail of what has happened with this flurry of sales through the Chinese distribution channel. "

Yes. Looking forward to that update from Alamy.

« Reply #193 on: January 21, 2022, 08:05 »
+2
...I'll be back in touch next week to share more detail of what has happened ...

It's nearly the end of "next week" now - Thursday evening on the US West Coast and very early Friday morning in the UK. I looked in the Alamy forums and don't see any update (other than the previously locked threads have been mostly unlocked).

Even if the update is to give a new date for an update, something from Alamy would be appreciated.



>>>>"I'll be back in touch next week to share more detail of what has happened with this flurry of sales through the Chinese distribution channel. "

Yes. Looking forward to that update from Alamy.

Me too

« Reply #194 on: January 21, 2022, 11:11 »
0
Hi All,

The data has been pulled and looked at for the distributor in question and we can confirm they have operated within our agreement. 

The images were sourced from the pool of images opted into Chinese distribution and Novel Use. The usage confirmation report included a very small % of images that had opted out or had been deleted in the time between download and use, but the vast majority of images billed remain opted into both. 

The images selected have been used as part of a small business / personal template style application where users can quickly create small designs. The novel use pool was used for this as it covers low value / high volume style licence packages and our agreement with this distributor continues to limit them to the novel use pool, although there still may be some additional billing associated with images downloaded whilst opted in, that are now opted out.

These deals are done based on the fact that they are additional streams of revenue that allow our reach to grow within the market and gain ground on competitors. 

The average licence price we sell for remains a significant indicator as to our approach to pricing, and the fact that it has remained stable over the last 3 or 4 years at $26-$30 in a difficult market shows a level of robustness. Competition is fierce of course and last year saw record levels of contributor registrations and image uploads. The photographers who are growing revenue on Alamy and having continued success are supplying a steady stream of fresh and on-trend content and are seeing year on year growth in earnings. 

Future growth opportunities are on the horizon across all areas of our business and we'll share them with you at the earliest opportunity.

Best regards

James Allsworth

Head of Content

« Reply #195 on: January 21, 2022, 11:14 »
+10
Hi All,

The data has been pulled and looked at for the distributor in question and we can confirm they have operated within our agreement.

The images were sourced from the pool of images opted into Chinese distribution and Novel Use. The usage confirmation report included a very small % of images that had opted out or had been deleted in the time between download and use, but the vast majority of images billed remain opted into both.

The images selected have been used as part of a small business / personal template style application where users can quickly create small designs. The novel use pool was used for this as it covers low value / high volume style licence packages and our agreement with this distributor continues to limit them to the novel use pool, although there still may be some additional billing associated with images downloaded whilst opted in, that are now opted out.

These deals are done based on the fact that they are additional streams of revenue that allow our reach to grow within the market and gain ground on competitors.

The average licence price we sell for remains a significant indicator as to our approach to pricing, and the fact that it has remained stable over the last 3 or 4 years at $26-$30 in a difficult market shows a level of robustness. Competition is fierce of course and last year saw record levels of contributor registrations and image uploads. The photographers who are growing revenue on Alamy and having continued success are supplying a steady stream of fresh and on-trend content and are seeing year on year growth in earnings.

Future growth opportunities are on the horizon across all areas of our business and we'll share them with you at the earliest opportunity.

Best regards

James Allsworth

Head of Content

"Chinese distribution and Novel Use. "

I've opted out of Novel Use? In fact, I've been opted out for about 10 years. Or is this a new Novel Use, Novel Use?!?

"Future growth opportunities are on the horizon across all areas of our business and we'll share them with you at the earliest opportunity."

Giving images away where I receive approx 0.02 is not a growth opportunity!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 11:54 by HalfFull »

« Reply #196 on: January 21, 2022, 11:47 »
+8


The average licence price we sell for remains a significant indicator as to our approach to pricing, and the fact that it has remained stable over the last 3 or 4 years at $26-$30 in a difficult market shows a level of robustness.



And you don't think that introducing a mass of sales for cents will be the end of your stable pricing of 26-30$ per download?


Did you read anyone's conserns regarding this statement you keep repeating?  With these tiny sales no one who posted here is even coming close to your average numbers.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 12:49 by Firn »

« Reply #197 on: January 21, 2022, 11:51 »
+5


The average licence price we sell for remains a significant indicator as to our approach to pricing, and the fact that it has remained stable over the last 3 or 4 years at $26-$30 in a difficult market shows a level of robustness.



Did you read anyone's consern regarding this statement you keep repeating?

Probably not... and for someone who stated he hates posting on a Friday afternoon just as they finish for the day... and how that comes over to us... he seems quite happy to do it... often!

« Reply #198 on: January 21, 2022, 12:19 »
+13
I too have been opted out of novel use for as long as I was aware of it (before I ever had a sale on Alamy I think). I got these sales. And no - 4 cent sales are not a market I want to make any inroads into.

Just_to_inform_people2

« Reply #199 on: January 21, 2022, 12:31 »
+1
"These deals are done based on the fact that they are additional streams of revenue that allow our reach to grow within the market and gain ground on competitors."

Really sounds as looking for straws to hold on to, especially the gaining ground on competitors. And probably they mean "not losing more ground to competitors".

The future will reveal :)

Anyone has any numbers on Alamy like revenue, profit, number of sales, average revenue per sale and then for the last ten years or so?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 12:34 by SVH »


 

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