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Author Topic: Few doubts about Alamy submission  (Read 21555 times)

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« on: November 20, 2011, 08:39 »
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hello everyone,
I am planning to submit 4 (1st time) images for QC in Alamy. But i have few terms what i don't understand.
(1) What does RM (Right Management) category ? Does it mean that if we choose submit photo for RM then those photos must be exclusive (I mean is it related to become Exclusive Alamy photographs? )
(2) If we fail to qualify for 1st and 2nd time then after how many days can we submit again for QC for 2nd and 3rd attempts ?
(3) Is it necessary or good to be exclusive for Alamy. I mean if we submit a photo to Alamy then we should not submit the same pic for any other micro/macro stock site ?

I hope I may get answers to my doubts here.
Thanking you in advance.


« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 10:35 »
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Alamy does not have official designations of exclusive and nonexclusive for its photographers. It's fine with Alamy for contributor to submit same images on other agencies, but offer the Same License for the same/sister image on all sites.

In other words, if you have RM license for photo on Alamy, have RM license for it at every agency. Also, if you have two sister (Significantly similar) images, give them same license type.

RM basically means that when image license is purchased, it will specify TYPE, TIME, Maximum SIZE, Geographic  LOCATION, of use. This differs from RF where buyer generally may use licensed image without time limit, and for wide range of uses (though not just Any use, such as logo, or those that require extended license, print runs beyond certain Big size....)

This is broadstroke - rather than legal, thorough - info.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 10:41 by ann »

« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 10:46 »
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Thank you ann for the reply.
  ya I am getting it now. So does it mean.. its better to give RF licence than RM if some one selling his photos in other sites as well ?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 10:56 »
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Thank you ann for the reply.
  ya I am getting it now. So does it mean.. its better to give RF licence than RM if some one selling his photos in other sites as well ?

If you're selling an image RM on one site, it should be RM on any others you have the same image on. And you have to keep tabs on when each photo has sold at each agency, in case a buyer wanted an exclusive use and you had to assure them that such a use hadn't been given before (which you could never do if the image has sold RF, as the buyers can use an RF file as often as they want, in (almost) any way they like.
Of course, maybe no-one will ever ask for an exclusive RM use.  The only enquiry for a limited exclusive use I had from Alamy didn't materialise in the end. But presumably plenty of other people get them (they cost more, as they're blocking out a particular range of future sales.)

For example, a non-exclusive RM license might be for calendar use in Europe for one year.
An Exclusive RM license might be for calender use in Europe for one year too - but no one else can use it for a calendar in Europe during that time, so they have to pay morel. Wiht the first example, other people can still license, non-exclusively, for the same use.
With RF, someone could license the image, paying once, then use it on a calendar, an advertisement, a book cover, a website, on packaging ...

« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2011, 11:37 »
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Thank you ShadySue for such a descriptive explanation. Let me ask once more to be sure that if i have sold a pic in exclusive RF licence in and then i get an offer for the same pic under RM licence then can i sell it now as RM or I will have to remove the pic from the gallery/stock itself for a specific period of time once i have sold it as any form of exclusivity ?

lagereek

« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2011, 11:50 »
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Thank you ann for the reply.
  ya I am getting it now. So does it mean.. its better to give RF licence than RM if some one selling his photos in other sites as well ?

If you're selling an image RM on one site, it should be RM on any others you have the same image on. And you have to keep tabs on when each photo has sold at each agency, in case a buyer wanted an exclusive use and you had to assure them that such a use hadn't been given before (which you could never do if the image has sold RF, as the buyers can use an RF file as often as they want, in (almost) any way they like.
Of course, maybe no-one will ever ask for an exclusive RM use.  The only enquiry for a limited exclusive use I had from Alamy didn't materialise in the end. But presumably plenty of other people get them (they cost more, as they're blocking out a particular range of future sales.)

For example, a non-exclusive RM license might be for calendar use in Europe for one year.
An Exclusive RM license might be for calender use in Europe for one year too - but no one else can use it for a calendar in Europe during that time, so they have to pay morel. Wiht the first example, other people can still license, non-exclusively, for the same use.
With RF, someone could license the image, paying once, then use it on a calendar, an advertisement, a book cover, a website, on packaging ...

Sue!  RM = Lets say you give Getty an RM image, that image can ONLY be sold by Getty, you cant then put exactly the same shot as RM, to say Alamy. Blimey, could land you deep in trouble. Surely you mean to tell him once an RM shot, the same cant be used as RF.
With Rights-managed material, you have to be very careful only because the reason clients pay big money for RM, is not so much because of the picture but the exclusive rights, sometimes world-rights.

The whole idea behind RM, is that its exclusive for a certain period to the client that bought it or rather the product or service, he bought the image for.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 11:54 by lagereek »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 11:57 »
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Sue!  RM means exclusivity. Lets say you give Getty an RM image, that image is exclusive ONLY to Getty, you cant then put exactly the same shot as RM, to say Alamy. Blimey, could land you deep in trouble. Surely you mean to tell him once an RM shot, the same cant be used as RF.
With Rights-managed material, you have to be very careful only because the reason clients pay big money for RM, is not so much because of the picture but the exclusive rights, sometimes world-rights.
We're not talking about Getty. Why do you always drag Getty into every discussion?
This discussion is about Alamy.
Take a look. This is the ALAMY forum. The title mentions ALAMY specifically. At NO PLACE in the OP is Getty mentioned.

Alamy does not require image exclusivity for RM. Of course you should not put the same pic RM and RF, Ann already said that.
Not all RM is exclusive RM.

@OP to clarify: this is a recent Alamy RM license I had. It is not an exclusive RM license:

Country: United Kingdom
Usage: Editorial
Media: Magazine - Print only
Print run: up to 100,000
Placement: Inside
Image Size: 1 page
Start: 01 October 2011
End: 01 November 2011

They have licensed the right to use the image in a monthly print magazine. They did not purchase exclusive rights to do so, and if anyone else had wanted to use the image in a monthly print magazine, they could have, unless the second party wanted exclusive rights.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 19:17 by ShadySue »

« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2011, 12:00 »
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Lagereek - RM license is not automatically an exclusive one.
Perhaps Getty requires RM licensed images placed with them to be exclusive?

[Edited to add: thanks ShadySue. I was typing above while you posted.]
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 12:02 by ann »

lagereek

« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2011, 12:03 »
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Thank you ann for the reply.
  ya I am getting it now. So does it mean.. its better to give RF licence than RM if some one selling his photos in other sites as well ?

If you're selling an image RM on one site, it should be RM on any others you have the same image on. And you have to keep tabs on when each photo has sold at each agency, in case a buyer wanted an exclusive use and you had to assure them that such a use hadn't been given before (which you could never do if the image has sold RF, as the buyers can use an RF file as often as they want, in (almost) any way they like.
Of course, maybe no-one will ever ask for an exclusive RM use.  The only enquiry for a limited exclusive use I had from Alamy didn't materialise in the end. But presumably plenty of other people get them (they cost more, as they're blocking out a particular range of future sales.)

For example, a non-exclusive RM license might be for calendar use in Europe for one year.
An Exclusive RM license might be for calender use in Europe for one year too - but no one else can use it for a calendar in Europe during that time, so they have to pay morel. Wiht the first example, other people can still license, non-exclusively, for the same use.
With RF, someone could license the image, paying once, then use it on a calendar, an advertisement, a book cover, a website, on packaging ...

Sue!  RM means exclusivity. Lets say you give Getty an RM image, that image is exclusive ONLY to Getty, you cant then put exactly the same shot as RM, to say Alamy. Blimey, could land you deep in trouble. Surely you mean to tell him once an RM shot, the same cant be used as RF.
With Rights-managed material, you have to be very careful only because the reason clients pay big money for RM, is not so much because of the picture but the exclusive rights, sometimes world-rights.
We're not talking about Getty. Why do you always drag Getty into every discussion?
This discussion is about Alamy.
Take a look. This is the ALAMY forum. The title mentions ALAMY specifically. At NO PLACE in the OP is Getty mentioned.

Alamy does not require image exclusivity for RM. Of course you should not put the same pic RM and RF, Ann already said that.
Not all RM is exclusive RM.

Whats the matter with you, Getty was only an example, take another one then lets say you supply an RM image to agency.A.  and then exactly the same RM image to agency.B.  what do you think will happen if two competitors buy the identical image for their product? especially if the first buyer bought it with world-rights. Come on use your head.

lagereek

« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 12:07 »
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Lagereek - RM license is not automatically an exclusive one.
Perhaps Getty requires RM licensed images placed with them to be exclusive?

[Edited to add: thanks ShadySue. I was typing above while you posted.]

No, it doesnt have to be exclusive at all BUT its exclusive to the buyer who purchase the file just for that purpose. Look! I am talking from experience here I was inches of getting sued for a massive sum back in 2009, thanks to a teflon frying pan. An agency screwed up and sold the  picture exactly to two compeeting companies, through their ad-agency as well.
Besides, policing this is difficult and I would not trust any agencys rights-controle management here. In the end of day its always the photographer who lands in trouble.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 12:10 by lagereek »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2011, 12:08 »
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Thank you ShadySue for such a descriptive explanation. Let me ask once more to be sure that if i have sold a pic in exclusive RF licence in and then i get an offer for the same pic under RM licence then can i sell it now as RM or I will have to remove the pic from the gallery/stock itself for a specific period of time once i have sold it as any form of exclusivity ?

I'm not sure if you can have an 'exclusive RF licence' - would that mean you had sold all rights to an image to one buyer?
If you have sold an image RF, you can't then sell it under an exclusive RM license unless the buyer agrees that they accept that the image previously sold as RF and they accept that you have no control over how it is used under the RF licence. I'd get them to sign specifically on that, to avoid any future trouble.

If you are selling at one agency, it's far simpler, or even if you put different pictures (not similars/sisters) to different agencies. The agencies will themselves keep a record of any exclusive licenses. If e.g. Alamy which allows you to submit to different agencies, they would still contact you to see if you're ever sold it elsewhere, just to be sure.

However, if you were selling image at Alamy, Bagency and Cagency, YOU would be repsonsible for keeping tabs on all sales at each of the agencies, probably by means of a spreadsheet, so that if BAgency contacted you and asked if you'd ever sold picture X (at all, or for a particular use), you'd be able to tell them for sure.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2011, 12:12 »
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Whats the matter with you, Getty was only an example, take another one then lets say you supply an RM image to agency.A.  and then exactly the same RM image to agency.B.  what do you think will happen if two competitors buy the identical image for their product? especially if the first buyer bought it with world-rights. Come on use your head.
As I said, in the case of Alamy, they contact you to ask if you've sold it anywhere else.
I have no idea if other agencies do that. Presumably as Getty require image exclusivity, they don't need to contact you as they'll have the record of any sales the file has had.

lagereek

« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2011, 12:15 »
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Thank you ShadySue for such a descriptive explanation. Let me ask once more to be sure that if i have sold a pic in exclusive RF licence in and then i get an offer for the same pic under RM licence then can i sell it now as RM or I will have to remove the pic from the gallery/stock itself for a specific period of time once i have sold it as any form of exclusivity ?

Look!  do yourself a favour here, its very touchy stuff, find out via the agencies, etc. Once a picture has been sold as RF or Micro, it can NEVER be sold as RM. At Alamy you yourself decide RM or RF, you can change as long as the picture havent sold as RF.
Be careful, any RM breech and you will land in court.

lagereek

« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 12:28 »
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Whats the matter with you, Getty was only an example, take another one then lets say you supply an RM image to agency.A.  and then exactly the same RM image to agency.B.  what do you think will happen if two competitors buy the identical image for their product? especially if the first buyer bought it with world-rights. Come on use your head.
As I said, in the case of Alamy, they contact you to ask if you've sold it anywhere else.
I have no idea if other agencies do that. Presumably as Getty require image exclusivity, they don't need to contact you as they'll have the record of any sales the file has had.

Fair enough but Getty was only an example, could be any agency. Since clients buy RM for the sole reason of rights, its important to get it spot-on, lawsuits can be very, very costly.

Ed

« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 18:57 »
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Lagereek - Sue is correct.  There are certain RM agencies that require exclusive images.  There are many other RM agencies that are non-exclusive.  One very quick example is distributor imagebroker which will place your non-exclusive RM images at various agencies (including Alamy) for licensing.  Another example is the 500+ agencies that have their portfolios up on Alamy - Aurora Images being an example.

If you designate an image as exclusive, and you upload it to multiple agencies then yes, you will have a problem.  At agencies that are non-exclusive, the agency will contact you and ASK if they can license the image as an exclusive image...and it's EXPECTED that you will restrict any similar images as well.

Also note that an image can be licensed exclusively by region.  As an example, a customer may license an image exclusively in North America for a period of time (say 5 years as example) and that same image can still be available to be licensed in the UK.

Take a look at Jeff Greenberg's portfolio of 80,000+ images at Alamy - Jeff is not exclusive to any agency...and Alamy isn't the only agency he contributes to.  In fact, he recently stated in a post that his business model is to submit to as many non-exclusive RM agencies as he can...and that's what he does (no different than many non-exclusive contributors here).

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2011, 19:28 »
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Take a look at Jeff Greenberg's portfolio of 80,000+ images at Alamy - Jeff is not exclusive to any agency...and Alamy isn't the only agency he contributes to.  In fact, he recently stated in a post that his business model is to submit to as many non-exclusive RM agencies as he can...and that's what he does (no different than many non-exclusive contributors here).
My goodness, I had no idea he submitted to other agencies. I don't know how he manages to get as many up on Alamy, apart from not 'describing' images as such.

Ed

« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2011, 20:07 »
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Take a look at Jeff Greenberg's portfolio of 80,000+ images at Alamy - Jeff is not exclusive to any agency...and Alamy isn't the only agency he contributes to.  In fact, he recently stated in a post that his business model is to submit to as many non-exclusive RM agencies as he can...and that's what he does (no different than many non-exclusive contributors here).

My goodness, I had no idea he submitted to other agencies. I don't know how he manages to get as many up on Alamy, apart from not 'describing' images as such.


In this thread...

http://www.alamy.com/forums/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=11707&p=2

Quote from: JeffGreenberg
Quote from: geoffpix
The one thing that doesn't change in this business is the need to change.... don't and you most likely will suffer.

Am I the OMO (odd man out) or what?  Few changes since '88:
since 1993, multiple non-exclusive agencies;
end of 2003, switched from slides-dupes to digital-RAWs;
end of 2003, stopped frequent tripod-monopod usage;
end of 2003, stopped severe editing of results;
late 2001 to early 2010, no international travel;
2005, learned Levels, clone tool, Excel doc.;
2011, learned burn & dodge tools;
shooting unreleased non-studio since '88;


I don't care who criticizes his images for quality or content.  The man is living his dream traveling and grossing over 100k per year (see the Alamy blog where he is featured).  It's a goal to aspire to...and that's for non-released, what I would describe as Street Photography.

RacePhoto

« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 08:42 »
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Rights-managed images are sold with a fee based on the buyer's specified use. There is nothing to say it's exclusive or not, unless there's a limited license or reserved rights are attached to the license.

Reserved rights, a traditional license but includes terms restricting the photographer from making sales for a specified period in a specified location or locations. According to the severity of the restrictions there is a premium paid over and above the cost of a traditional license. This may give a buyer exclusive use of an image. (also the artist can restrict where the image can be used and for what purposes, but we're just discussing buyers at this point?)

"Royalty-free" means that the buyer pays once for an image that can be used by the buyer, over an unlimited period of time. (unless the contract specifies a period of time...) Other buyers may acquired similar rights.

So very simply if you sell a photo RF, it would be impossible to sell the same image exclusive or with any reserved rights. It's already Royalty Free. But selling something RM doesn't stop someone else from licensing the same image, it just means the specific usage is known and can be tracked.

You can sell the same images at multiple RM sites, without any problems at all. In theory you can't sell a RF licensed image, as RM, because the use hasn't been recorded, so there's no way to know how it's being used. Plus every agency contract I've seen, doesn't allow it, so it's forbidden.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 08:44 by RacePhoto »

lagereek

« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2011, 09:25 »
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Well personally I would never supply identical RM-shots to differant RM-agencies and it would surprise me if Alamy accepted that.

« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 09:26 »
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As I said, in the case of Alamy, they contact you to ask if you've sold it anywhere else.
See? Gostwyck was sortof right. I can't imagine an RM image not being exclusive. How can different RM agencies synchronize geo locations and durations? Pardon my ignorance but as a buyer I would be very pissed off if a competitor used the same image in the same geo location because he licensed it at another agency. Isn't that contradictory to the RM concept?
If so, he could as well have bought RF at 1% of the price.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 09:28 by AttilaTheNun »

lagereek

« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2011, 09:31 »
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As I said, in the case of Alamy, they contact you to ask if you've sold it anywhere else.
See? Gostwyck was sortof right. I can't imagine an RM image not being exclusive. How can different RM agencies synchronize geo locations and durations? Pardon my ignorance but as a buyer I would be very pissed off if a competitor used the same image in the same geo location because he licensed it at another agency. Isn't that contradictory to the RM concept?
If so, he could as well have bought RF at 1% of the price.

Agreeing!  thats the way I see it too. However if what they say here is true?  jeez!  dangerous and risky business. Must say during 20 years of RM shooting, never heard of this precidure.

Ed

« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2011, 09:51 »
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From Alamy's website...


http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/sell-images.asp

Quote
Freedom and control
We dont ask for exclusivity and we do not edit your images. Our customers want to find the right image as quickly as possible. We provide a fast, user-friendly website to showcase and sell quality imagery and back this up with excellent customer service.


Not all RM images are licensed exclusively.  Not all image buyers are looking to pay a premium for exclusive rights to an image.  Not all photographers will agree to license an image exclusively to a buyer.

« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2011, 09:53 »
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As I said, in the case of Alamy, they contact you to ask if you've sold it anywhere else.
See? Gostwyck was sortof right. I can't imagine an RM image not being exclusive. How can different RM agencies synchronize geo locations and durations? Pardon my ignorance but as a buyer I would be very pissed off if a competitor used the same image in the same geo location because he licensed it at another agency. Isn't that contradictory to the RM concept?
If so, he could as well have bought RF at 1% of the price.


From the licence terms on the Alamy website:

Exclusivity and rights control

    You can maintain the integrity of your rights protection because we report sales in real-time in your Summary of Images sold.
    When a customer buys a Rights Managed - Exclusive image we automatically prevent the future sale of the licence.
    If you sell an image exclusively elsewhere, you must restrict sales for that usage or territory for that image on Alamy.

The last sentence says it all. Yes, you can sell RM images elsewhere. And in that case you are responsible to make sure non of the exclusivity conditions in case of a sale are violated.
Obviously, that does not work if you use a RM agency that does sell exclusive rights without contacting you first. But Alamy does. So only combine RM on Alamy with other RM agencies that either do not offer exclusive rights or only do so after asking you first.

« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2011, 11:54 »
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Could someone here write a sticky about the difference of RM and RF as well as exclusivity?

This would make things a lot easier for everyone.

CarlssonInc

« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2011, 12:06 »
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Thank you ShadySue for such a descriptive explanation. Let me ask once more to be sure that if i have sold a pic in exclusive RF licence in and then i get an offer for the same pic under RM licence then can i sell it now as RM or I will have to remove the pic from the gallery/stock itself for a specific period of time once i have sold it as any form of exclusivity ?

Look!  do yourself a favour here, its very touchy stuff, find out via the agencies, etc. Once a picture has been sold as RF or Micro, it can NEVER be sold as RM. At Alamy you yourself decide RM or RF, you can change as long as the picture havent sold as RF.
Be careful, any RM breech and you will land in court.

Christian, technically a previously sold as RF can be sold as RM - no problem. Can even be sold exclusively if past history is accepted by buyers. HOWEVER, Getty doesn't accept this (RF to RM).

lagereek

« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2011, 13:29 »
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Thank you ShadySue for such a descriptive explanation. Let me ask once more to be sure that if i have sold a pic in exclusive RF licence in and then i get an offer for the same pic under RM licence then can i sell it now as RM or I will have to remove the pic from the gallery/stock itself for a specific period of time once i have sold it as any form of exclusivity ?

Look!  do yourself a favour here, its very touchy stuff, find out via the agencies, etc. Once a picture has been sold as RF or Micro, it can NEVER be sold as RM. At Alamy you yourself decide RM or RF, you can change as long as the picture havent sold as RF.
Be careful, any RM breech and you will land in court.

Christian, technically a previously sold as RF can be sold as RM - no problem. Can even be sold exclusively if past history is accepted by buyers. HOWEVER, Getty doesn't accept this (RF to RM).

OK then, good to know!  I know Getty would never accept that but obviously Alamy does.

thanks,  cheers.

« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2011, 14:04 »
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Could someone here write a sticky about the difference of RM and RF as well as exclusivity?

This would make things a lot easier for everyone.

RacePhoto gave an excellent explanation above. 

« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2011, 17:27 »
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In my very little experience licensing directly, I never had anyone requesting exclusivity, maybe because what I do is mostly editorial content.

One site that handles licensing history very well is MyLoupe. You can enter information about existing licenses (usage, time frame, geographic restrictions, etc), so if you licensed an image elsewhere, the information is available. I have never checked however if the information is available to the site admin only or to the buyer.

RacePhoto

« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2011, 02:19 »
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Could someone here write a sticky about the difference of RM and RF as well as exclusivity?

This would make things a lot easier for everyone.

Doesn't matter, I tried, and others have tried. There are some tiny loopholes, like if you are caught with the smoking gun in your hand and they don't read you, your rights, you go free, because they got the evidence illegally. But the rest of the time, you'll get the chair. (except in CA and France of course)

You can't sell RF as RM, if it has been sold RF. Not if it's been offered RF, but if it has SOLD. And in general say it's some micro shot that sold 500 times to, no-one-knows-who, it's pretty difficult to provide any record of where it's being used. So yes...

If the buyer is a total idiot and want's that shot "exclusive" and doesn't care that you sold it for 25c yesterday, and they can buy it for a buck, BUT they want to pay you $500 for an exclusive world license. It's possible. Unlikely, improbable and it's probably not going to happen, but it's not "impossible". The buyer would have to agree and like I mentioned (with full disclosure, before they buy it, not after) be a total idiot, because they can but it RF with an extended license for $28.

The problem is that some people offer the same images, at the same time, concurrently, as RF and RM, and claim, well if it sells RM, I'll pull the RF license sites and I'm fine. OK how about, selling unreleased photos and if someone buys it, I can always get a model release later. (no kidding someone said that!)

Are people grubbing and scuffling for whatever they can get, so much that they lose site of basic legality and integrity? Is one Sub sale going to make a difference to how your family lives? Because it's one tiny sub sale that can forever make a photo RM! I don't know why people have to play games and try to controvert the system, bend all the laws, for one more potential sale? There's something wrong when that's how desperate people get to make a buck.

Once it sells RF it's always RF.

Plus a small detail, every agency I know of, that lists terms of sale which mention this, will include that you can't sell images as RF and RM at the same time. There's a nice simple reason. Because they say we can't.  :o
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 02:22 by RacePhoto »

CarlssonInc

« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2011, 02:49 »
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Basically the two (RM and RF) are only two different ways of determining the price of a license - that's it. RF it is priced according to size, whilst RM is priced according to usage. Different agencies might have extra requirements, there might be "moral" implications or integrity reasons. Logically, proper exclusivity can only really be obtained with RM that has never been sold as RF. Nothing prevents RF or even mRF to be sold as RM, unless the agency prohibits it. Unfortunately many of today's RM licenses are almost RF like in the sense that they span very long time (seen up to 10 years) and for very broad usages - thus eliminating the possibility for the same image to sell exclusively for almost any other usage.

BUT in the real world WE shouldn't sell previous RF or mRF as RM, and absolutely not the same image as RF and RM at the same time.

Quite a good write-up regarding this issue can be found here: http://www.youngimaging.com/Article-WhyNotLicenseAnImageAsRFAndRM.asp
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 04:22 by CarlssonInc. Stock Imagery Production »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2011, 08:35 »
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hello everyone,
I am planning to submit 4 (1st time) images for QC in Alamy. But i have few terms what i don't understand.
(1) What does RM (Right Management) category ? Does it mean that if we choose submit photo for RM then those photos must be exclusive (I mean is it related to become Exclusive Alamy photographs? )

Also bear in mind that if you have unreleased people, or even part of an unreleased dot of a person in shot, or any product which would need a property release (read up all you can about this if you're not sure. When in doubt, I always tick 'needs PR') and you haven't got releases, your picture will automatically be assinged as RM. You only have a choice of assigning RF to photos which have all the appropriate releases or don't need any.

« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2011, 03:04 »
0
hello everyone,
I am planning to submit 4 (1st time) images for QC in Alamy. But i have few terms what i don't understand.
(1) What does RM (Right Management) category ? Does it mean that if we choose submit photo for RM then those photos must be exclusive (I mean is it related to become Exclusive Alamy photographs? )

Also bear in mind that if you have unreleased people, or even part of an unreleased dot of a person in shot, or any product which would need a property release (read up all you can about this if you're not sure. When in doubt, I always tick 'needs PR') and you haven't got releases, your picture will automatically be assinged as RM. You only have a choice of assigning RF to photos which have all the appropriate releases or don't need any.

[1]You mean without releases a photo with a person or some property will be included to "editorial" ? does it mean all editorials are essentially RM ?

[2]Another thing.. please tell do we need to submit releases with (4) photos in the approval procedure ?

[3] Which is safer.. posting a photo in RM/RF and which pays us more money RF/RM?

Thank you all friends for your valuable suggestion and response, Sorry that i could not replied you earlier.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2011, 06:11 »
0
hello everyone,
I am planning to submit 4 (1st time) images for QC in Alamy. But i have few terms what i don't understand.
(1) What does RM (Right Management) category ? Does it mean that if we choose submit photo for RM then those photos must be exclusive (I mean is it related to become Exclusive Alamy photographs? )

Also bear in mind that if you have unreleased people, or even part of an unreleased dot of a person in shot, or any product which would need a property release (read up all you can about this if you're not sure. When in doubt, I always tick 'needs PR') and you haven't got releases, your picture will automatically be assinged as RM. You only have a choice of assigning RF to photos which have all the appropriate releases or don't need any.

[1]You mean without releases a photo with a person or some property will be included to "editorial" ? does it mean all editorials are essentially RM ?

[2]Another thing.. please tell do we need to submit releases with (4) photos in the approval procedure ?

[3] Which is safer.. posting a photo in RM/RF and which pays us more money RF/RM?

Thank you all friends for your valuable suggestion and response, Sorry that i could not replied you earlier.

[1] Yes.

[2] No

[3] Safer: RM, because you know what use has been paid for and can spot any misuses. With RF the buyer can use it for (almost) any purpose and as often as they like and in any ways they like. That said, Alamy (and apparently several other agencies) won't help you if someone lifts your image from one website and puts it on their own (because it's not a 'breach of the license', like e.g. paying for a print use and putting it also onto their website would be). However, they graciously allow you to pursue it on your own. (From what I'm hearing, several companies have that policy - I guess it would be very expensive for them to pursue, and it would come out of our commission, which on Alamy is 60% or 40%. Getty pursue aggressively, but as they only pay contributers 20%, they have the money to do so.)
Pays more: How long is a piece of string? Impossible to answer as buyers can often negotiate prices for uses. Depends in each case how unique your image is. I hear that generally RF pays better, but it just depends - you never know. From a buyer's point of view, if they only want a simple, non-exclusive use, RM makes more sense. If they want to use a pic on their brochure, packaging, adverts and a website, non-exclusively, RF is better value. Prices are spiralling downwards, of course, as a consequence of RF licenses and micro. If you have a unique image, and a buyer wants wide exclusive usage, you could be in the money. Of course, like on the micros, if you have a unique image, it may be simply that buyers at that agency aren't interested in that subject.
Also if you read their occasional request info, it's always model-releases and property released images buyers are requesting.
If you have releases, you can still choose to set the file as RM, you don't have to set it RF: again a difficult decision, but probably RF for 'general' stuff and RM for more unique stuff, e.g. if you can get releases it would be difficult for someone else to get.

Caveat: if selling editorial, you need to build up a huge port (thousands) before you see regular sales. Also, before submitting anything, it might be worth having a look at what's there already - usually loads - and consider whether your pics are significantly better with what's already there and has established Alamy Rank (where you place on the search - this is by contributer, not by image). As a newbie, you will be assigned a medium rank, so your pics will be in the middle of any search, which won't matter if there are only 20 images in a search, but will matter where results are in the thousands.

« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2011, 06:49 »
0
Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2011, 07:34 »
0
Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

Oh, sorry, a modifier to my answer to [2]: if your submission photos are accepted, they go directly into the collection, so you'll be asked when you keyword etc them if you have releases.

And just FI: I was almost 8 months/300 pics on Alamy before I got my first sale. YMMV.

« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2011, 07:50 »
0
Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

Oh, sorry, a modifier to my answer to [2]: if your submission photos are accepted, they go directly into the collection, so you'll be asked when you keyword etc them if you have releases.

And just FI: I was almost 8 months/300 pics on Alamy before I got my first sale. YMMV.

So we have option there at the time of approval also whether photo is for editorial or RF  ? but its after the 4 images are accepted.. not during submission of pix in QC..right ?

and you could sold your image after 8 months while you had 300 pix collection ????

« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2011, 08:00 »
0
I have another curiosity.. what currency should one set for payment in alamy,as they have option for GBP, Euro and USD.. i have chosen USD through paypal but as far as my country's currency is concerned, GBP has highest value for our currency.. so is it beneficial to choose GBP for me ? i asked so because i searched in alamy gallery and found the pix by the photographers from my country has value in GBP..so if anyone can suggest me about this as well....

and what is digitally altered option in submission page in alamy ? are change in contrast,brightness,noise removal etc basic things also come in "digital alteration" ? and does it affect the acceptance by Alamy ?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 08:08 by dr_skn08 »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2011, 08:16 »
0
Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

Oh, sorry, a modifier to my answer to [2]: if your submission photos are accepted, they go directly into the collection, so you'll be asked when you keyword etc them if you have releases.

And just FI: I was almost 8 months/300 pics on Alamy before I got my first sale. YMMV.

So we have option there at the time of approval also whether photo is for editorial or RF  ? but its after the 4 images are accepted.. not during submission of pix in QC..right ?

and you could sold your image after 8 months while you had 300 pix collection ????

[1] yes, you upload first then you keyword etc (which I personally find time consuming and fairly difficult) and at that point, when you set your attributes, you choose RF or RM - but as noted above if you need but don't have MR or PR, it will be automatically RF RM.
NOTE: to protect yourself, if you're not sure whether a PR is needed, tick yes. Then the onus is 100% on the buyer.

[2] I don't really understand the question. I built up about 300 photos (I had no 'back catalogue' for Alamy as I'd only just got the 5D2 when I applied), with no sales until the eighth month. Of course, you might get a sale the day after your photo goes online, I'm just 'managing your expections'.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 08:47 by ShadySue »

« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2011, 08:21 »
0

[/quote]

[1] yes, you upload first then you keyword etc (which I personally find time consuming and fairly difficult) and at that point, when you set your attributes, you choose RF or RM - but as noted above if you need but don't have MR or PR, it will be automatically RF.
NOTE: to protect yourself, if you're not sure whether a PR is needed, tick yes. Then the onus is 100% on the buyer.

[/quote]

I did not get you this time.. i thought that if i have no MR/PR then photo will go automatically to Editorial i.e RM but you said her it will go to RF (as for RF it is necessary to post releases)
 ???

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2011, 08:44 »
0


[1] yes, you upload first then you keyword etc (which I personally find time consuming and fairly difficult) and at that point, when you set your attributes, you choose RF or RM - but as noted above if you need but don't have MR or PR, it will be automatically RF.
NOTE: to protect yourself, if you're not sure whether a PR is needed, tick yes. Then the onus is 100% on the buyer.

[/quote]

I did not get you this time.. i thought that if i have no MR/PR then photo will go automatically to Editorial i.e RM but you said her it will go to RF (as for RF it is necessary to post releases)
 ???
[/quote]

Sorry - typo. I should not have typed RF but RM. My fingers work faster than  my brain! I'll correct my post too. Thanks for pointing it out. You can be my (unpaid!) proofreader any time!
What happens in the system is that when you set Attributes, if you click MR needed/not available and/or PR needed/ not available, RF is not available as an option for that image, it sets to Rights Managed automatically.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 08:48 by ShadySue »

« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2011, 08:59 »
0
lol what is "proofreader" Sue ?

Can you answer my other question about currency of payment ?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2011, 09:03 »
0
lol what is "proofreader" Sue ?

Can you answer my other question about currency of payment ?

Proofreader is someone who reads someone else's writing and points out all the errors.

Can't help about currrency, I'm paid in UKP because that's where I live, and I have direct payments to my bank.

BTW, just today they've announced that they're lowering the payout threshold to $175, no doubt in line with falling prices.

PS: if you post any beginner questions on the Alamy forum, be sure to be wearing your 'big boy trousers' - they can sometimes be really aggressive with newbies (not everyone, of course).

« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2011, 09:09 »
0
hahahahahah thats so funny  :D  hey sue can i see you portfolio in alamy..?
can't we know how many times a photo in alamy is downloaded or has been sold as we can know good detail about pix in DT ?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2011, 09:53 »
0
hahahahahah thats so funny  :D  hey sue can i see you portfolio in alamy..?
[PMd]
can't we know how many times a photo in alamy is downloaded or has been sold as we can know good detail about pix in DT ?
You have these details about your own images, but not about other people's images (to discourage copy-catting, I guess. On iStock I use dl figures for the very opposite, because it there are ten perfectly good images of something on iStock which haven't sold, it's clear people who are looking for that subject don't look at iStock). Once you're accepted, you have access to something called Alamy Measures, but it's only of limited usefulness.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2011, 09:57 »
0
and what is digitally altered option in submission page in alamy ? are change in contrast,brightness,noise removal etc basic things also come in "digital alteration" ? and does it affect the acceptance by Alamy ?
No, these are all OK, and normal image correctons don't count. What counts is alteration of the image, e.g. cloning etc. There is some debate on site as to whether that would include removing bird poo, small pieces of litter, bubblegum on the pavement etc. Some people say these should be marked as altered, others say not so long as the removals were of tiny items, not significant in the photo, especially if ten minutes later, the litter might have blown elsewhere.
How many 'secondary editorial' image buyers care whether a photo has had tiny 'improvements', i.e. whether they'd prefer 'natural' or 'improved',  I couldn't possibly say.

« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2011, 01:29 »
0
does alamy accept photos of insects landscapes and macro shots and how is their sale in alamy ?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2011, 05:38 »
0
does alamy accept photos of insects landscapes and macro shots and how is their sale in alamy ?
Yes, they accept them: but have a really good, hard look at the opposition already on the site before you submit anything like that. There are some real  nature experts (including a few big names) who have been submitting for years there, or who submit via another agency and they show up on Alamy. There's no point in uploading something unless it's significantly different (e.g. a different behaviour) or significantly better than what's already there.

« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2011, 06:52 »
0
ya thats true sue.. thanks for reply :-)

« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2011, 08:22 »
0
There are 2 section above search box in alamy... 1 is all of alamy and 2 is creative..
what is creative search.. and how is it different from "all of alamy" search ?

« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2011, 11:49 »
0
If one fails his QC 1st time then after how many days he can retry the QC once again...?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2011, 12:10 »
0
There are 2 section above search box in alamy... 1 is all of alamy and 2 is creative..
what is creative search.. and how is it different from "all of alamy" search ?
It's pretty arbitrary. Try it and see!

« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2011, 00:52 »
0
hello
I posted my initial 4 images for my 1st QC in alamy on Friday night. And my photos are still in waiting List awaiting for approval. Does it mean that any of my images has been rejected ? Do they inform through email about approval or rejection ?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2011, 07:12 »
0
hello
I posted my initial 4 images for my 1st QC in alamy on Friday night. And my photos are still in waiting List awaiting for approval. Does it mean that any of my images has been rejected ? Do they inform through email about approval or rejection ?

Patience, poppet. They don't do any inspections over the weekend.

« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2011, 07:14 »
0
WISH you are right Eli..! I don't want to be disqualified in alamy in my 1st QC...  :(  :'(

« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2011, 07:18 »
0
Don't worry, I've still got some from Thursday in awaiting inspection and I haven't had a rejection for years. Anything that would pass the leading micros will pass on Alamy.

« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2011, 07:24 »
0
thank you Baldrick for your moral support.  :) I will give you and Eli a treat if i get selected in alamy in my 1st attempt  ;)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 07:52 by dr_skn08 »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2011, 07:57 »
0
Don't worry, I've still got some from Thursday in awaiting inspection and I haven't had a rejection for years. Anything that would pass the leading micros will pass on Alamy.
Be very afraid  ;) - I submitted 24 late last night and I'm already 'managing' them!

(Don't worry, they don't go in order - I've had images accepted after a couple of days while others on the forum said theirs had gone through in four hours.)

« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2011, 07:59 »
0
 ;D good !

« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2011, 09:32 »
0
Did anyone get QC approval since last Thursday or Friday ?

« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2011, 09:50 »
0
got two approved this morning

« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2011, 10:16 »
0
got two approved this morning
congratulation Julie. I dont whats wrong with mine. Alamy must keep their contributors well informed atleast what they are doing with then. :(

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2011, 10:39 »
0
got two approved this morning
congratulation Julie. I dont whats wrong with mine. Alamy must keep their contributors well informed atleast what they are doing with then. :(

I'm sure an initial submission will always take longer than regular QC.

« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2011, 10:45 »
0
got two approved this morning
congratulation Julie. I dont whats wrong with mine. Alamy must keep their contributors well informed atleast what they are doing with then. :(

I'm sure an initial submission will always take longer than regular QC.
hmmm well i have no othe choice than waiting. But still can you tell me how much longer may they take for review on a new QC ?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2011, 10:50 »
0
got two approved this morning
congratulation Julie. I dont whats wrong with mine. Alamy must keep their contributors well informed atleast what they are doing with then. :(

I'm sure an initial submission will always take longer than regular QC.
hmmm well i have no othe choice than waiting. But still can you tell me how much longer may they take for review on a new QC ?
Probably depends how many newbies are in the queue. When I joined, it was just a couple of days, but that was a couple of years ago.

« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2011, 10:57 »
0
Ok Eli. Thank you. lets see what happens to my QC...  :)

« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2011, 11:39 »
0
Alamy says your QC times are affected by your past history.  If you build a record of acceptance, it gets faster. 

« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2011, 11:42 »
0
yes Stockastic, i know that. This imy initial QC so no past history in alamy...

« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2011, 13:12 »
0
I joined Alamy on 26.11, uploaded my initial images on 27.11 and received confirmation that I passed the Quality Control test on 28.11. I'd say pretty smooth sailing.

« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2011, 13:14 »
0
I joined Alamy on 26.11, uploaded my initial images on 27.11 and received confirmation that I passed the Quality Control test on 28.11. I'd say pretty smooth sailing.
but 27-11 was sunday and i dont think they review pix on sunday/weekends...

« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2011, 02:16 »
0
I joined Alamy on 26.11, uploaded my initial images on 27.11 and received confirmation that I passed the Quality Control test on 28.11. I'd say pretty smooth sailing.
but 27-11 was sunday and i dont think they review pix on sunday/weekends...

They must have on done it on Monday 28.11 - I guess.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2011, 07:17 »
0
I understand that a proportion of inspections are done in India (it was mentioned in the forum a few weeks back), so Monday morning in India would still be Sunday further west. I have often uploaded early in the UK morning (c2 or 3 a.m.) and found them needing managed within about 6-8 hours. Of course, it's not always that fast.

« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2011, 07:20 »
0
Today also no improvement in my alamy QC.. seems something wrong either from their side or from my side- lol my photos

« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2011, 11:03 »
0
Ok so finally 1 of my photo out of 4 images has been rejected in my 1st QC and it was true what i had doubt about that image, alamy commented the same. strange that it has been selected in DT.
but can i submit rest 3 photos again with a replacement photo of the 4th failed one ?  or better to submit whole new set of 4 images for my 2nd QC...? Let me tell you that rest 3 images has qualified my IS test and are also in DT... so can i take that risk ?
another thing.. is it ok to post images for my 2nd QC immediately or better to wait for few days before submitting photos again ?

« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2011, 09:56 »
0
Finallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
got selected in ALAMY...
I cant believe it... it was my 3rd QC (could not pass 2 QC) so was thinking my photos will be reviewed at last
but...... very strange that my 3rd QC result came out within 24 hrs where as my 1st QC result took 10 days and 2nd QC result took 24 days......

I am really thankful to all of you who replied my thread and mails with valuable suggestions without which it was impossible for me to clear my test in alamy...
special thanks to  Shadysue (Eli), Leaf, Racephoto, BaldricksTrousers, stockastic, paulo and karimala for their very useful mails and suggestions that boosted a newbie like me
        :-)

xst

« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2012, 17:06 »
0
Finallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
got selected in ALAMY...
I cant believe it... it was my 3rd QC (could not pass 2 QC) so was thinking my photos will be reviewed at last
but...... very strange that my 3rd QC result came out within 24 hrs where as my 1st QC result took 10 days and 2nd QC result took 24 days......

I am really thankful to all of you who replied my thread and mails with valuable suggestions without which it was impossible for me to clear my test in alamy...
special thanks to  Shadysue (Eli), Leaf, Racephoto, BaldricksTrousers, stockastic, paulo and karimala for their very useful mails and suggestions that boosted a newbie like me
        :-)

Very simple.
They have rule, that if you failed - they don't let you know about this for several weeks, to "encourage" you be better next time.

So first two times your files were reviewed within the same 24 hours


 

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