Author Topic: RM prices same as RF (Read 6065 times)

jefftakespics2 · « **on:** June 04, 2015, 13:34 »

I put a few photos on RM on Alamy as a test and when I look at the pricing on the images it is identical to the pricing on the RF images, right up to the "Marketing package: Large business " option. After that there is "Or choose another rights-managed license" My sole reason for trying RM was to have the photos not sell at RF prices. Am I missing something here?

ShadySue · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2015, 14:04 »

These prices are for RM sales with no exclusivity. These could, arguably, even be cheaper than RF, since you can reuse RF files almost indefinitely.
Apparently, it's pretty rare for Alamy customers to need exclusivity, which is where you'd get larger sums.

Remember that a lot of Alamy customers have huge discounts. Most of my buyers seem to have enormous discounts, but some people still report larger value sales on the monthly sales thread.

That said, you can get resales of your RM files, which you normally wouldn't get with RF. For example, I had two sales of a file one used in an educational book, the other for the teachers' manual. I'm sure the publication run in total would be well within that allowed for RF.

Still, the few sales and low value sales have prevented me for uploading there for a while. Read the monthly sales thread. Of course, there is only a tiny number of people reporting, but look at the number of sales they report in a month compared to the files in their ports, and note that most people quote the gross sale value, not their net share.

jefftakespics2 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2015, 14:08 »

Thanks Sue. I am still amazed they would sell RM that cheaply. I am a buyer in my day job and I know all about the discounts, but even Getty does not sell their RM for prices that low. I had a small sales burst at Alamy so that inspired me to try the their RM route. We'll see ....

ShadySue · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2015, 15:40 »

Quote from: jrwasserman on June 04, 2015, 14:08

Thanks Sue. I am still amazed they would sell RM that cheaply. I am a buyer in my day job and I know all about the discounts, but even Getty does not sell their RM for prices that low. I had a small sales burst at Alamy so that inspired me to try the their RM route. We'll see ....

They say that buyers say that if they don't get a discount they'll get what they want on the micros, especially now that they're selling editorial.

However, be aware that buyers with discounts keep these discounts for all files; no matter how rare or special your photo might be, you can't protect it from the low value sales. I opted out of the UK newspaper scheme for a while, then I got a series of very low value sales, so I opted back in, but have more or less stopped uploading there.

Here's an example of an RM sale I got last year:
Rights Managed Country: Worldwide
Usage: Editorial
Media: Editorial website
Placement: Single Placement
Image Size: up to full area
Start: 01 July 2014
End: 01 July 2017
Editorial web use, multiple placement; rights granted in line with customer agreement which may vary from invoice details above
Gross: $ 10.00

And two of these this year:
Country: Italy
Usage: Editorial
Media: Editorial website
Placement: Single Placement
Image Size: up to 1/4 screen
Start: 29 August 2014
End: 29 September 2014
Gross: $ 5.79
But worse: these were distributor sales, so I only got $1.74 on each of them
(You can opt out of distributor sales, but some of these are better than average $$, so a difficult call.)

Note that you don't even necessarily know what rights were granted. That "rights granted in line with customer agreement which may vary from invoice details above" clause seems to apply to a lot of sales.
Be aware that "print only" also includes an online version of a publication, which is a new meaning of 'print only'.
Also be aware that you can get sales, then refunds then resales at a much lower price, which means in effect that a buyers ha bought your file, and others and after some number of sales in a certain period, they are granted a retrospective discount.

Still, some people are reporting some high value sales.
Good luck!

ShadySue · « **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2015, 21:02 »

Unbelievably, I've just had my second highest value Alamy sale.
Let's hope it sticks.

Interestingly, it was an unexpected 'side' photo from a local news event I uploaded via the news feed. No interest at the time, and the local paper published a couple of pics which seemed to have been taken on a very ancient phone.

FI, the gross was c40% of the calculator price for the usage

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2015, 22:48 »

Congratulations, Sue.

Alamy seem to have come round to the realisation that the difference between RM and RF is quite artificial, anyway. They are now selling RF photos on RM licences, if that is what the buyers want to call them. The RM exclusively-on-Alamy files are probably the only ones which routinely deliver a special premium now.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #6 on:** June 05, 2015, 00:50 »

It obviously depends on what rights are licensed, but it's entirely reasonable for a single RM sale to be for much less than RF - if you get limited rights for an image over a limited period of time, that should cost less than a much broader set of rights in perpetuity. That's Canva's model (which I think of as micro-RM).

The whole point of RM is that you keep track of what rights went to whom and for what period, but that says nothing about the price for a given set of rights. The problem with offering lower priced RM deals (which Canva has sidestepped because of their platform) is tracking usage so that buyers don't pay small amounts for limited rights and then use the image beyond the scope of the license (whether that's inadvertent or not).

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #7 on:** June 05, 2015, 02:35 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on June 05, 2015, 00:50

It's entirely reasonable for a single RM sale to be for much less than RF - if you get limited rights for an image over a limited period of time, that should cost less than a much broader set of rights in perpetuity.

I think that is how it used to be before iStock was invented and turned things upside down. It was impracticable for iS to monitor individual usages so they went where the logic of their business model took them, rather than worrying about the relative value of usages on RF and RM licenses.

jefftakespics2 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 05, 2015, 09:06 »

I used to be in RM many years ago before iStock and yes everything was RM. Much more lucrative, but a different era. And we used to complain bitterly about the agencies taking 50%!

fivedmarkthree · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2015, 11:42 »

The last couple of mine were the following:

Country: Worldwide
Usage: Marketing package - Small business, Use in marketing materials, worldwide for 5 years (excludes advertising). This license is for small companies - up to 10 people.
Start: 02 March 2015
End: 02 March 2020
Gross: $38.00

and

Country: Worldwide
Usage: Editorial
Media: Editorial website
Placement: Single Placement
Image Size: up to full area
Start: 01 April 2015
End: 01 April 2018
Editorial web use, multiple placement; rights granted in line with customer agreement which may vary from invoice details above.
Gross: $10.00

I did have a couple $40 gross late last year as well. I only have about 140 images there and they are all RM

dpimborough · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2015, 12:51 »

I find the pricing pretty incomprehensible but I can't complain when I get sales worth a couple of hundred.

My portfolio is roughly 60% RF 40% RM and the RF sales have ranged from $3 to $60 or more.

Either way it's still way more than the micro agencies. A single RF sale from Alamy is often way more than certain micro agencies with multiple sales for mere cents

Often a bad month can be salvaged by a few sales from Alamy.

jefftakespics2 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2015, 13:56 »

I had a couple of $200 sales (gross) so it has me more interested in uploading. Those were RF.

wordplanet · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2015, 15:15 »

Most of my RM sales in the past year on Alamy have been $45-100
My last few sales over the past couple of months include
one editorial print RM at $63 for 10 yrs (a book sale),
two RM website for 5 yrs @ $45 each
an RF for $11,
and my lowest RM to date - a 1/4 screen website use for one month for $4.27.

Like Shady Sue, I've had instances where I've had two sales of the same image for two uses inside the same book, so the RM model works well there, but many of the licenses seem to combine aspects of RM and RF.

Back a few years ago, RF used to bring in more than RM since the use was greater, but now buyers seem willing to pay more for RM since they can get RF from the micros.

Alamy's prices are on the low end for RM. I get a lot more when I license images directly but notwithstanding the lowish prices, Alamy sales seem to have gotten steadier this year.