MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Alamy.com => Topic started by: Alamy on November 03, 2014, 06:19
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We're starting to work on something we've wanted to do for a while now: improving the upload and keywording process.
Although our turnaround times for image processing are one of the quickest in the business, it's clear that our upload tool and keyword management areas of the site could be far more user friendly.
We're looking at vastly streamlining the whole process to make keywording and uploading more elegant and efficient which should make submitting images to us a far more enjoyable experience.
So what would you want to see changed / bought in? We're already sold on the idea of removing the flash element of manage images, and we have plenty of other exciting ideas up our sleeves for how we think things could be made better, but we're looking for your top 3 things you'd like to see improved.
Every idea will be read and considered.
Cheers
Alamy
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we're looking for your top 3 things you'd like to see improved.
Hi. Thanks for asking.
1. End dependence on Flash. Alamy is the only reason I still need Flash on my Macbook.
OK - I see I didn't read the OP properly.
2. IPTC keywords would be mapped to Main Keywords. Either recognising but removing separating commas - or else making comma separation the norm.
3. The ability to add additional keywords to multiple images in the batch / bulk editing functionality. i.e. whilst leaving existing keywords in place.
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The batch editor at Shutterstock is pretty good. Just implement it like that and you are golden.
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Thanks for realising that the keywording area needs an improvement, and thanks for asking here.
Basically, we need just one thing: if the IPTC data is complete, then you must import images without any action required on our part.
If you really need to have essential, main and secondary keywords, then you can import the first 8 keywords as "essential", without asking for manual intervention of course.
Other information such as Description, Attributes and Date and Place are useless most of the time.
Please make it completely voluntary or remove altogether.
FTP would be a plus.
And a different folder for editorial will make things even easier.
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If you really need to have main and secondary keywords, then you can import the first 8 keywords as "main", without asking for manual intervention of course.
OT/ This would not work for the vast majority of users using Lightroom since Lightroom puts keywords in alphabetical order.
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If you really need to have main and secondary keywords, then you can import the first 8 keywords as "main", without asking for manual intervention of course.
OT/ This would not work for the vast majority of users using Lightroom since Lightroom puts keywords in alphabetical order.
(First, an edit - I meant "essential" instead of "main", my error, sorry).
Then let's make the essential keywords non-compulsory.
Or map them to a different (usually) unused IPTC field.
About the Lightroom alphabetical order, we need to ask Adobe to fix that in version 7.
I stopped keywording in LR for that reason.
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Basically, we need just one thing: if the IPTC data is complete, then you must import images without any action required on our part.
OT/ That is never going to work since there are multiple other details which are essential - e.g. number of people, releases, licence type etc
I like the Alamy system and would like it tweaked, not abandoned.
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Remove the existence of three different keyword fields, keep just one.
Everything else is ok.
But while you're listening: Why do images with unrecognizable people (like tiny spots on a far away beach) have to be RM? Allow them as RF, so they can be sold at other RF places as well, that would be an improvement.
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Basically, we need just one thing: if the IPTC data is complete, then you must import images without any action required on our part.
OT/ That is never going to work since there are multiple other details which are essential - e.g. number of people, releases, licence type etc
I like the Alamy system and would like it tweaked, not abandoned.
What about a preset for all those data?
E.g., I don't do model shots or illustrations, so there are always 0 people in my images and all images are photos.
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For uploads via the News Feed, since you know how to auto-add the contributor's name on upload, find a way of auto-removing it again when it enters the main collection.
At the moment, if Joe Bloggs uploads a news photo shot in London, and doesn't go back into manage images to remove his name afterwards, his photo shows in a search for 'Joe London'. (Or indeed Joe 'anything else in the caption or keywords', likewise Bloggs [hypothetically])
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Another one: don't split phrases when importing keywords.
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Why do images with unrecognizable people (like tiny spots on a far away beach) have to be RM? Allow them as RF, so they can be sold at other RF places as well, that would be an improvement.
Who decides whether a person is recognizable - especially when so often that is about context ? Straight yes/no is best IMO. Same as with property - e.g. vehicles, houses etc.
Anyhow - surely we don't do want them to do anything which encourages people to upload the same content to Alamy as they are also selling elsewhere as RF for typically much less money ?
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Why do images with unrecognizable people (like tiny spots on a far away beach) have to be RM? Allow them as RF, so they can be sold at other RF places as well, that would be an improvement.
Who decides whether a person is recognizable - especially when so often that is about context ? Straight yes/no is best IMO. Same as with property - e.g. vehicles, houses etc.
Anyhow - surely we don't do want them to do anything which encourages people to upload the same content to Alamy as they are also selling elsewhere as RF for typically much less money ?
If you don't have a release (e.g. crowd scenes) you could still sell as editorial, but there's no reason that cannot be RF.
So allowing to mark images as "RF + no release available" would be good.
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Please get rid of the need to separate keywords into 3 fields. It is tedious at best. If you require there be a set of essential keywords then please make it so the user can just select those from the main keyword block and they move into the essential block and disappear from the main block.
Right now sorting through the keywords to separate them is just too labor intensive.
But really there should be no tiers at all. A photographer should just be able to upload his IPTC keyworded images without any additional work.
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Anyhow - surely we don't do want them to do anything which encourages people to upload the same content to Alamy as they are also selling elsewhere as RF for typically much less money ?
The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this post by Alamy is that they are thinking about turning Alamy into regular microstock.
Which - considering how sales are falling there, at least for me - could even make sense.
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Upload IPTC data directly into the Alamy fields with no need to edit on the Alamy site or do special Alamy edits prior to upload. My database alphabetizes keywords and is not compatible with the 3 field Alamy method.
If Alamy is going to continue with the 3 fields for keywords, make the interface have a drag and drop capability to very quickly move keywords (and phrases) to the desired field.
Add more status to the batch processing. If you are going to put people in the sin bin for failures, that is fine. However the batch status needs to identify that so submitters can tell if inspection is slow or if the inspection has failed. This is very significant during the holidays. Is inspection slow or did I fail? Do I upload more or do I go back and find my failures? Failures feedback at the time of failure will make us better at self inspection regardless of the sin bin consequences. I don't need to make 30 more days of failures while waiting on a last batch failure status.
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Do away with keyword tiers! No other site makes us go through that. One set of keywords is all you need.
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Keyword tiers are one of the better things Alamy does, I'd like to see other sites adopt that or something similar. Spending a few extra seconds making sure our images have good keywords helps buyers find them. What's more important uploading millions of images as quickly as possible or getting sales?
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I still use the old manage images and overall I find it much, much better than the "new" one.
For example, I can see clearly which image I'm working on instead of the square thumbs which can look similar despite one image being horizontal, one vertical and another a panorama.
I can see multiple images and easily copy/paste or drag/drop the keywords from one to others.
All info needed about an image is seen at once without need to move through tabs. I really cannot understand why, on a pop-up window used exclusively for one image, there's need for tabs while 80% of the computer monitor is unused!
As previously mentioned the way Shutterstock handles the uploads management is very good. Coincidentally it's very similar to the old manage images from alamy...
Except for the batch edit, I never liked the new manage images.
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The same like the others - keywords. Just accept the keywords brought in with IPTC. Now you have time consuming process, which is why I haven't uploaded half of my portfolio yet.
I'm happy that you recognized the problem. If you implement it right your collection will grow significantly.
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I agree with keeping the keyword tiers. It's one of the best things alamy has despite the work it requires. At least we can choose the most relevant ones and limit the spam.
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The same like the others - keywords. Just accept the keywords brought in with IPTC. Now you have time consuming process, which is why I haven't uploaded half of my portfolio yet.
I'm happy that you recognized the problem. If you implement it right your collection will grow significantly.
If you want Alamy to be like every other microstock site expect them to compete on price just like all the other microstock sites. I for one would like to see Alamy continue as something different. If spending a few seconds arranging your most relevant keywords means that you can't make money then my guess is your images aren't worth uploading in the first place.
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If you implement it right your collection will grow significantly.
I don't think 'lack of size' of Alamy's collection is a serious issue.
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- remove 10 types of different keyword categories - just make order of keywords important (if that is needed at all)
- make drag-drop functionality - like on SS or DT - it is much easier to see and drag photos to drop area.
- make FTP upload working for everybody
- take a look at 123RF - there's the easiest upload process
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Anyhow - surely we don't do want them to do anything which encourages people to upload the same content to Alamy as they are also selling elsewhere as RF for typically much less money ?
From my 10+ sales I had last month 90% were under $10.
Micro now accepts editorial content which means that images that in the past only had place in alamy are now accepted in Micro as RF Editorial.
One of the strongest collections in the past for alamy was travel photography. Now, at least for the most known places you can find great images on micro.
The distinction has no sense anymore except for very specific type of images.
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The same like the others - keywords. Just accept the keywords brought in with IPTC. Now you have time consuming process, which is why I haven't uploaded half of my portfolio yet.
I'm happy that you recognized the problem. If you implement it right your collection will grow significantly.
If you want Alamy to be like every other microstock site expect them to compete on price just like all the other microstock sites. I for one would like to see Alamy continue as something different. If spending a few seconds arranging your most relevant keywords means that you can't make money then my guess is your images aren't worth uploading in the first place.
Who are you to tell me that my images are not worth uploading?
I expressed my opinion.
Just give me a break, go quote somebody else.
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The same like the others - keywords. Just accept the keywords brought in with IPTC. Now you have time consuming process, which is why I haven't uploaded half of my portfolio yet.
I'm happy that you recognized the problem. If you implement it right your collection will grow significantly.
If you want Alamy to be like every other microstock site expect them to compete on price just like all the other microstock sites. I for one would like to see Alamy continue as something different. If spending a few seconds arranging your most relevant keywords means that you can't make money then my guess is your images aren't worth uploading in the first place.
Who are you to tell me that my images are not worth uploading?
I expressed my opinion.
Just give me a break, go quote somebody else.
You said you haven't uploaded because of having to do some extra work keywording. If that little bit of extra work (so that your images show up in the relevant searches) discourages you from uploading then it seems to me like your images probably aren't worth uploading in the first place. If they are going to sell then it's worth the time and effort if they aren't going to sell then it's not.
Over and over on this forum people complain about the sites rather than looking at themselves and their work. If you are going to spend time, effort, and money to make great shots then a little bit of work keywording so that buyers will find your images seems reasonable.
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The same like the others - keywords. Just accept the keywords brought in with IPTC. Now you have time consuming process, which is why I haven't uploaded half of my portfolio yet.
I'm happy that you recognized the problem. If you implement it right your collection will grow significantly.
If you want Alamy to be like every other microstock site expect them to compete on price just like all the other microstock sites. I for one would like to see Alamy continue as something different. If spending a few seconds arranging your most relevant keywords means that you can't make money then my guess is your images aren't worth uploading in the first place.
Who are you to tell me that my images are not worth uploading?
I expressed my opinion.
Just give me a break, go quote somebody else.
You said you haven't uploaded because of having to do some extra work keywording. If that little bit of extra work (so that your images show up in the relevant searches) discourages you from uploading then it seems to me like your images probably aren't worth uploading in the first place. If they are going to sell then it's worth the time and effort if they aren't going to sell then it's not.
It is not little bit of extra work for me. That's what I think and the thread is started by Alamy asking us what we think about the matter.
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The same like the others - keywords. Just accept the keywords brought in with IPTC. Now you have time consuming process, which is why I haven't uploaded half of my portfolio yet.
I'm happy that you recognized the problem. If you implement it right your collection will grow significantly.
If you want Alamy to be like every other microstock site expect them to compete on price just like all the other microstock sites. I for one would like to see Alamy continue as something different. If spending a few seconds arranging your most relevant keywords means that you can't make money then my guess is your images aren't worth uploading in the first place.
Who are you to tell me that my images are not worth uploading?
I expressed my opinion.
Just give me a break, go quote somebody else.
You said you haven't uploaded because of having to do some extra work keywording. If that little bit of extra work (so that your images show up in the relevant searches) discourages you from uploading then it seems to me like your images probably aren't worth uploading in the first place. If they are going to sell then it's worth the time and effort if they aren't going to sell then it's not.
It is not little bit of extra work for me. That's what I think and the thread is started by Alamy asking us what we think about the matter.
There are things they could do to speed up the process like they've said they are going to do by getting rid of flash. "Just accept(ing) keywords" would be bad change. The system now gives contributors the ability to put relevant keywords with images, changing that would be a step backward.
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Batch assignment of photo info - how many people, whether a photograph, digitally modified, type of license, that sort of thing on the last page - would be a big help, so we don't have to do it for each similar image individually.
Correctly reading IPTC info also would be good - now it often doesn't read in the titles or puts them in the description field instead.
Change the essential keywords to a number rather than character count - e.g., first 5 or 8 keywords rather than 50 characters - and either take the first few automatically and/or display them all and allow the essential ones to be chosen easily, either drag and drop or just by a click.
Thanks for asking and please ignore the squabbling by our colleagues.
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Batch assignment of photo info - how many people, whether a photograph, digitally modified, type of license, that sort of thing on the last page - would be a big help, so we don't have to do it for each similar image individually.
Just a quick point here - you can already do that... :)
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Thanks for all suggestions so far - please keep them coming.
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When keywords include phrases make sure the Alamy system keeps the phrase as a keyword unit.
If using a drag and drop interface for the three keyword fields, make sure we can drag the phrase as a unit.
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Stop all these keywords categories
Commas between keywords for multi words keywords
Ftp for everybody
An upload system like the Photodune one (all by ftp included the releases)
+ eps - vector eps is old > pdf
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Vectors... Or did that happen already?
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Dook, from the last couple of threads, I understand he likes to insult people for the sake of argument. ShadySue and UnclePete will agree.
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Dook, from the last couple of threads, I understand he likes to insult people for the sake of argument. ShadySue and UnclePete will agree.
Is that you again Ponke v5.0? It's not an insult at all. If you are spending money, time, effort, expertise, etc.. creating images, spending a few extra seconds to match relevant keywords with your images is simply not a huge burden. It seems to me like spending all that effort and time to create images and then throwing them up as fast as possible with less relevant keywording does a disservice to your work. If it's not worth the few seconds to keyword to the best of your ability (meaning more sales and better results for buyers) then is it really worth uploading the image in the first place? If you can't make a profit because of those few seconds of extra work then that should tell you something is wrong.
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From my 10+ sales I had last month 90% were under $10.
My average is $31 NET. I would prefer to sell fewer for more. I only have RM at Alamy.
One of the strongest collections in the past for alamy was travel photography. Now, at least for the most known places you can find great images on micro.
And when you have an image which nobody else has - do you want to sell that for SS prices ? Suppose the image is not something which is likely to sell in volume.
allowing to mark images as "RF + no release available" would be good.
No thanks. Most editorial content does not sell in the sorts of numbers which justify RF from the artists perspective IMO. RF is for images which sell often. Micro stock and subs makes no sense for occasional sellers which, nevertheless, have value.
If a picture is only likely to sell occasionally then RF pricing (especially micro and subsciption) is not sustainable IMO. And editorial is not typically a volume model. Also - RM allows photographers to impose restrictions on use.
I agree with keeping the keyword tiers. It's one of the best things alamy has despite the work it requires. At least we can choose the most relevant ones and limit the spam.
I agree with this. I think it gives Alamy a better opportunity to rank what is most important. I wish it were the norm.
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From my 10+ sales I had last month 90% were under $10.
My average is $31 NET. I would prefer to sell fewer for more. I only have RM at Alamy.
Mine is well below that, all RM.
I've almost certainly about to come out of the UK newspaper scheme. I get more from a sale on iS than I do with these.
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Vectors... Or did that happen already?
yeah, vectors -also ftp will be a nice touch too.
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1-. Do not let the client download the picture in full resolution, then ask for the money back and finally pay the web size. I hate refunds.
I wanna get my money without having to wait forever ... took five months waiting
Edit photos in large quantities.
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One of the strongest collections in the past for alamy was travel photography. Now, at least for the most known places you can find great images on micro.
And when you have an image which nobody else has - do you want to sell that for SS prices ? Suppose the image is not something which is likely to sell in volume.
Those type of images are very rare nowadays. But sure, if it's something unique that has a potential for a huge commercial sale than putting it as RM on alamy is a solution.
But the most probable thing to happen is for you to have a distributor sale for certain markets that will give you peanuts because miraculously all sales for that market are 1/8 of page in an educational book for 5.000 copies... And a 90% discount on top of that...
Since alamy doesn't have premium collections to protect those unique images "your" unique image receives the same treatment as a photo of Big Ben on cloudy day.
In 2013 my averaqe sale was around $33 (my cut). In 2008 it was $109. This year I believe it will be lower than 2013 and despite being my worst year (except 2007) in terms of incomes and I've been more than once in the top 500 of contributors.
Considering that most images sell on alamy once, with few exceptions, and that on SS it will sell multiple times including "on demand" and "single downloads" after sometime, you may earn more on SS (plus other micros) than on alamy alone on some images. Even in what I thought was alamy's forte.
I still upload to alamy and don't plan on giving up despite I'm terribly unmotivated because I like the agency (possibly the fairest of all I contribute to) and it still represents a large portion of my income. But I'm having more and more problems understanding the difference between markets in the stock industry.
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1-Dump the keyword tiers and pick up the keywords from IPTC.
If you can't dump the tiers, at least make it only 2 tiers and be able to just click it in the main tier and it appears in the essential tier while automatically disappearing from the main tier.
2-If you must have categories make it simple like SS.
3-Don't dump the entire batch because of a single image that does not pass, simply dump the single image.
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And when you have an image which nobody else has - do you want to sell that for SS prices ? Suppose the image is not something which is likely to sell in volume.
Those type of images are very rare nowadays.
I don't think that they need to be. I think we have the opportunity to predict editorial trends - i.e. the things which are going to be a story sooner or later. And the microstocks are rubbish for that sort of specific content.
Eg. I've got one image which has done 7 RM sales because the company involved keeps trending. I am not going to pretend that this is my typical score rate --- but I took the picture based on a hunch and because I could see in my mind what picture would work - the same as I might place a bet or buy a stock ... and I think if I was less lazy and applied myself better I would be coming up with more of those.
Those 7 RM sales would not have bought me lunch on microstock RF editorial. Especially considering that some of those sales were repeat usages which I would not have been paid for.
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Every idea will be read and considered.
listen, you guys have the most troublesome keywording in the industry and you're not even offering FTP.
you're also not providing any tool for lightroom or other platforms.
on top of this you don't provide paid in-house keywording services.
as for Flash, of course everybody hate flash with a passion but i would stick with Flash rather a new buggy and half baked HTML5 replacement.
it's ridicolous the amount of time needed to keyword for Alamy compared to its competitors and indeed something must be done.
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Dook, from the last couple of threads, I understand he likes to insult people for the sake of argument. ShadySue and UnclePete will agree.
Thank you for your support.
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Dear Alamy,
whatever you'll change after this thread I want you to know that I really appreciate your move, your interest in what your contributors want. This is unusual and you're doing that not first time. For me you are the only one honest and trust worth agency that respects authors.
Keep it going and I wish you (us) all the best! You rule!
About my ideas...
I wish to get FTP account for stock photos/ regular uploads. The browser uploader gets errors sometimes and it's time consuming.
Keywording in one part, not three. I waste to much time in separating it even if I prepare files with IPTC earlier. But maybe your search system can't work well then?
Intelligent batch edit that doesn't lose/clear all info when add more files to batch. I mean if I want to add "flower" keyword to 50 files, let me do this as add option, not to fill all info again.
I use caption and description and I wouldn't change that part.
In attributes I used to think there's to much clicking, but no, it's all needed info. We need that. Clients need that.
Ok, I really hate the problem with model release needed to part of human finger on image. Nobody is recognisable when I use his part of hand holding fruit, I guess...
Some other thoughts:
Why don't you stop refunds after more than one month?
Can we get 50% of distributor's sales? ;)
What can we (all) do to improve sales and keep price level? Really, my dream is to see Alamy in the first place on the right poll column!
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Dear Alamy,
whatever you'll change after this thread I want you to know that I really appreciate your move, your interest in what your contributors want. This is unusual and you're doing that not first time. For me you are the only one (+ SS edited mine) honest and trust worth agency that respects authors.
Keep it going and I wish you (us) all the best! You rule!
Agree!
Keywording/titleing on Alamy is one of the reasons I often left already approved images for a week or two not preparing them for sale. It's too complicated to separate keywords in to three fields. I like Zazzle at this point - you just select and click 10 keywords/phrases from all bunch and they automatically became essentials. You can unselect and change them later. Beside this the system should read and understand phrases from IPTC.
Also, the system don't read IPTC titles- they somewhere disappear. I edit batch on ACDSee and maybe I should put a title on Headline or Description fields, but then other agencies don't see or don't understand..
I have no reproofs to uplaoding system, but would very appreciate FTP.
Thanks a lot and all the best!
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I think that what the people requesting the end of the three tier system for the keywords don't realize is that alamy doesn't curate the collection, accepting any image that respects the technical requirements. This means that there's an enormous amount of images entering the collection everyday.
I think that the three tiers system not only allows for a real "best match" system to work without biased schemes like we know in some agencies, it also forces contributors to perform a selection of the images to be sent since they know they'll need to invest some time in keywording.
Without this I think many people would just dump every single image on alamy simply because they are sharp and get accepted, and spam the keywords with the most irrelevant terms as it's common to see in many agencies.
I know it's tedious but I think it gives better search results, and as mentioned by others it rewards those that contribute to better and more accurate search engine results by investing in the process.
Other agencies have similar processes that give you better search results placements and they require just a little less work. And they don't even care about our opinion about nothing.
So, what's the problem in investing a little work to help an agency that shows at least some respect for the contributors by collaborating in a better search engine?
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The most important change is to reject only bad pictures, not whole batch of submit images. All other agencies work in this order. Don't waste yours and our time, please!
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How about letting us see a reasonable size preview of the image while we are keywording etc.? When there is a significant time lapse between uploading and keywording it's easy to forget how many people, if any, are visible as dots in the distance on any given image so an element of guesswork creeps in for the "one, two, threee, four or more" boxes.
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Vectors... Or did that happen already?
yeah, vectors -also ftp will be a nice touch too.
Vectors have been introduced a while ago already.
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Bottom line for many of us is that (for all agencies not just Alamy) overall per-image returns have become so low, that we're no longer will to spend any time at all on keywording or categorizing when uploading. Zero. It has to be: select a group of images, click upload and walk away.
If Alamy absolutely needs to have some keywords designated as 'main' or 'essential' then there's only one way I'd do it: show me the list of keywords next to every image just uploaded, and let me click on the 'essential' ones, which highlights them. After doing that for all images I click 'done'.
I offer this in the spirit of positive suggestion, not a rant by any means.
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Vectors... Or did that happen already?
yeah, vectors -also ftp will be a nice touch too.
Vectors have been introduced a while ago already.
As far as I see on the site, you still have to contact them, then mail them a disk.
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With a very simple interface to move keywords between categories I might be closer to going back to those 850 old files that never got fixed when your 3 box system was introduced.
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One thing that I would like to see is for the fields in bulk edits to be pre-filled. Just take the contents from the first image and put a checkbox next to the field to activate or deactivate it for editing.
It is really annoying right now that I have to select a single image, get the keywords from that and then paste them into a separately opened bulk edit field...
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Is it possible to make the pending images visible? I sometimes forget what I uploaded.
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Is it possible to make the pending images visible? I sometimes forget what I uploaded.
This is extremely important!
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I forgot to ask about one more thing. Why does Alamy accept so many similarities? Some of lots examples:
E4PN3H
DWD847
DW4C26 (watch whole gallery)
etc...
Look at "Similar stock photos", the same author.
I don't get it, what is the sense of uploading dozens, hundreds of (almost) the same images? We don't help to our clients ;) Does it matter at all?
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Batch assignment of photo info - how many people, whether a photograph, digitally modified, type of license, that sort of thing on the last page - would be a big help, so we don't have to do it for each similar image individually.
Just a quick point here - you can already do that... :)
Er - how please? Can you post a link or something?
But apart from that: ANYTHING that reduces the number of boxes to tick. For example the 'it has been digitally altered' is really only relevant to Editorial....isn't it?
In any case, if it HAS been digitally altered (what photo hasn't?) you then you have to go back to another place to explain WHAT has been done - at least this comment area - if deemed necessary - could be nearby.
Plus a nice drag and drop to get keywords into categories from IPTC.
:)
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i stopped uploading after i think 10% of my images. It`s a pain to upload there. Please let us know after the changes are done.
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Batch assignment of photo info - how many people, whether a photograph, digitally modified, type of license, that sort of thing on the last page - would be a big help, so we don't have to do it for each similar image individually.
Just a quick point here - you can already do that... :)
Er - how please? Can you post a link or something?
Drag the images down to the batch edit area, click on the desired option, assign the change you want to make, click save. All done!
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Thanks to all those that have given suggestions so far.
We're really interested at the moment in hearing what you want changing with the upload tool and manage images tool as we're fully aware it needs improving. Having your "top 3" wants for this side of our site really helps us focus in on what's needed.
We understand you might have frustrations with other parts of the site, but this really isn't the right thread to voice them as it makes it harder for us to collate your suggestions.
If you've got any other things you'd like to discuss about Alamy then it might be best to start another thread. We try to be as active as possible here and will usually respond in good time. It would just help keep this thread on topic.
Thanks again for all your current suggestions.
Alamy
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2. IPTC keywords would be mapped to Main Keywords. Either recognising but removing separating commas - or else making comma separation the norm.
You mean "Essential Keywords" ????
If you mean, then a big +1 for that!
I also can't understand why Alamy counts the letters in keywords, not the amount of words (?)
And for those really big batches of images I would like to be able to see more than 96 images per page.
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You mean "Essential Keywords" ????
If you mean, then a big +1 for that!
No I meant Main. Main is all relevant, the list of keywords. Where as Essential is just the few that we decide are the most significant.
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Another vote as noted above for easy drag and drop between Ess, Main and comp, if the three tiers are deemed worth keeping.
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Batch assignment of photo info - how many people, whether a photograph, digitally modified, type of license, that sort of thing on the last page - would be a big help, so we don't have to do it for each similar image individually.
Just a quick point here - you can already do that... :)
Er - how please? Can you post a link or something?
Drag the images down to the batch edit area, click on the desired option, assign the change you want to make, click save. All done!
I didn't know about that - will have to try it. Thanks.
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Another vote as noted above for easy drag and drop between Ess, Main and comp, if the three tiers are deemed worth keeping.
Ok, but please do NOT make the interface in such a way that we have to drag and drop each and every keyword we want, one at a time, between sections. That would be going backwards, not forwards. Ideally we need to be able to select and act on multiple keywords at once, either by checkbox or by holding down the <Ctrl> / <Cmd> key and clicking.
The top 3 things I'd like to see:
1. IPTC data copied to Alamy fields as appropriate (and clearly document which IPTC fields are copied to which Alamy fields, so we don't have to guess).
2. By default move the first X (6?) keywords to the Essentials field, the rest to Main -- if there are too many to fit, the last go to Comprehensive. (I agree with others who have said it would be best to based on keyword count, not length, but if that's not possible, then please do not truncate or split phrases when doing this.)
3. Let us set defaults for the Attributes fields (but still make the fields very visible and easy to change when we need to override them).
4. (I lied) GET RID OF THE TABBED DIALOG BOX! We need to be able to see and change all fields on one page -- no tabs allowed!
5. Ideally, let us work on one, long page like SS or the way Alamy used to be (I think -- it's been too long). So we don't have to keep clicking to get to the next or previous image to edit. And make things FASTER (hopefully getting rid of Flash will do that). I hate pressing "Save All Changes", then having to wait, and then having another box pop up for 5-10 seconds showing "Successful".
Speaking of documenting things, how about making it very clear how best to deal with phrases? Must we (please, no!) put quotations around phrases, or can they be kept as phrases by comma delimiting? (This is for the next input method, not the current.)
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I would like a comments box to add notes to the reviewer (such as when I have added filters to the images), and also not having three keyword fields ... just one that picks up the meta data from our files.
Thank you Alamy, for giving us this opportunity to add our input.
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Sigh, my best work just got rejected from here when I reopened my account this past week. :( Better stick to what I know.
(its a micro world for me... :) )
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One thing I'd like to see in the manage images is for the keyword fields, especially the "Main Keywords", while only allowing saving 300 characters not to be restricted in accepting the 300 while editing.
For example if we paste 350 characters the field it won't allow more than the 300 and even cut a keyword in half.
Allow for using more than those 300 but disable saving until it's equal or under the 300. It's a small detail but sometimes when managing the keywords in the different fields it's annoying to discover that I got distracted and ended up with truncated keywords in the "Main keywords" .
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Adding the first 6 keywords to the main box jsut makes things more cumbersome and time consuming as most people have alphabetic order of their keywords. So you need to remove them again to another box before you can move the correct keywords.
The main culprit of the alamy batch editor is the keyword handling, the rest works alrightish. If they can sort out the keyword boxes and IPTC data, that would be a big win.
Still think the SS editor is the best out there. Quickest submission is 123RF, but there is no batch editing or post editing possible at all.
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Quickest submission is 123RF
No it isn't. There are a couple of sites where you just put your images in your FTP folder and that's it! (Too bad they are lowballers)
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IMHO:
First improvement is allow a single field for keywording, where the first five or six words are the most relevant. The reason why is a pain, for me, to submit photos in Alamy, is that after keywording and uploading, I have to move all my keywords in the manager. The result of this double work is, often, a lack of precision and sharpness in the keyword: I can't spend too much time to remove or add one single word from a single file in a batch job.
Alternative is: give as the tools to keyword offline according to the Alamy stress system
Second point is not related to keywording, but I really need this: when I upload to Alamy, nobody can use the same router, because, also if I go to check the newspaper online, the Alamy upload stop to work and delete the picture from the list. We cannot interfere with the connection.
I really need an ftp port to upload other than news.
Last, but this is just a toy for the moment: why don't activate the geolocalisation, reading the exif automaticaly?
Hoping in a better upload and keyword future with Alamy..
Sincerely Yours
Franz
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Second point is not related to keywording, but I really need this: when I upload to Alamy, nobody can use the same router
Assuming you are on a Mac, Google "ipfw" for simple one line terminal code to temporarily limit and then unlimited the bandwidth on port 80. Then your machine will not suck all of the bandwidth available on the network.
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You should review the photos more accurately…
When I see this: E3FEAC RF E3FEHN RF E3FEHT RF E38AYK RF E38AYT RF E38AYY RF
or this E2MJWP RF E2MK1J RF E2MK1N RF E36N5J RF E36N5Y RF E36N9G RF
I have difficulties to believe that you review the images.
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You should review the photos more accurately…
When I see this: E3FEAC RF E3FEHN RF E3FEHT RF E38AYK RF E38AYT RF E38AYY RF
or this E2MJWP RF E2MK1J RF E2MK1N RF E36N5J RF E36N5Y RF E36N9G RF
I have difficulties to believe that you review the images.
thats a lot of hex color codes :o
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You should review the photos more accurately…
When I see this: E3FEAC RF E3FEHN RF E3FEHT RF E38AYK RF E38AYT RF E38AYY RF
or this E2MJWP RF E2MK1J RF E2MK1N RF E36N5J RF E36N5Y RF E36N9G RF
I have difficulties to believe that you review the images.
This is not the correct thread for that; it'd be better to have a separate thread, in case similar situations like this one are found.
However, if I were Alamy, I'd boot this person right off the site. That's a flagrant violation of their similars policy: uploading half a dozen copies of the SAME FILE. She had been uploading only 3 each, but for some reason recently decided that wasn't enough.
I don't know why someone who is this talented would do such a thing. Here's her port on DT; it's superb:
http://www.dreamstime.com/gornostaj_more-latest-adition_pg1 (http://www.dreamstime.com/gornostaj_more-latest-adition_pg1)
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Second point is not related to keywording, but I really need this: when I upload to Alamy, nobody can use the same router
Assuming you are on a Mac, Google "ipfw" for simple one line terminal code to temporarily limit and then unlimited the bandwidth on port 80. Then your machine will not suck all of the bandwidth available on the network.
Well, my skill it's not enough to understand deeply what you are saying, but I had this problem in three countries and with Mac Os 10, Win XP and Win 8, both with mozilla and chrome, with ADSL and from last week with optical fiber too. There is something thatbI can do, considering that I use mainly Mac (Maverick, but I will upgrade soon with Yosemite)? Thanks a lot.
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...........
If this is not the place, why even post the link to the portfolio elsewhere??
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You should review the photos more accurately…
When I see this: E3FEAC RF E3FEHN RF E3FEHT RF E38AYK RF E38AYT RF E38AYY RF
or this E2MJWP RF E2MK1J RF E2MK1N RF E36N5J RF E36N5Y RF E36N9G RF
I have difficulties to believe that you review the images.
This is not the correct thread for that; it'd be better to have a separate thread, in case similar situations like this one are found.
However, if I were Alamy, I'd boot this person right off the site. That's a flagrant violation of their similars policy: uploading half a dozen copies of the SAME FILE. She had been uploading only 3 each, but for some reason recently decided that wasn't enough.
I don't know why someone who is this talented would do such a thing. Here's her port on DT; it's superb:
[url]http://www.dreamstime.com/gornostaj_more-latest-adition_pg1[/url] ([url]http://www.dreamstime.com/gornostaj_more-latest-adition_pg1[/url])
Yes, it is right
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Please enable the undo and redo action for the keyword (and other) fields.
Occasionally all the keywords get selected and a click on the space bar or another key and all is lost.
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1. Stop splitting keywords in 3 categories
2. Switch to comma separated keywords and expressions, directly imported from Lightroom.
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1º - The size of the keyword fields don't make sense with the area for the "Main keywords" being much larger than what is occupied for the 300 characters, and the size for the "Comprehensive keywords" field small for the 856 characters it allows. Not that I use 856 characters in the "Comprehensive keywords", but on import the keywords on the IPTC are put in this field and I cannot see them all to organize and divide them through the other fields.
2º - when we double clicking on a keyword please also select the space after the word like on MS Word. Sometimes I want to move a keyword and I need to correct the double space that stays deleting one space, and on paste to add a space after the keyword. It's a small thing but repeat that several tenths of times and it starts to get annoying.
3º - In the Attributes Tab abandon the drop down fields and use the same system as in the old Manage Images where we have all options in sight and simply put the dots in the round "thingy". Or better yet, simply highlight the option selected when we click in the word/box. Drop down menus are a waste of time especially when the whole edit window is so small and could be bigger and with the space better used.
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And another one...
Enable the "Find" function.
Sometimes, when I'm selecting the keywords for the "Essential keywords" I need to find a word that's among other ones and I lose some time finding it. A simple Find tool would help a lot.
It would also allow to find double spaces and correct them since they count for the characters total and that may force a keyword down from the Main to Comprehensive fields.
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- Change from a character limit to a keyword limit, with keywords being comma separated so multiple word keywords count as one.
- Allow more keywords while editing, with a red star/outline/whatever to show that we can't save until we're under the limit. It's much easier to pick and choose what we do and don't want to keep when all the info is in the edit box to start with (see e.g. FAA's editing. Or Crated's).
- I can see a need for tiered keywords, but can it be two rather than three, and make it easy to select which ones are "essentials" with something similar to Zazzle's "power" keywords where you click on the keyword to toggle if a keyword is a "power" one or not. The first 10 added are automatically top tier, but if you're a Lightroom user it's so easy to change.
Thanks for listening.
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Just a belated thankyou to A (in this thread) for pointing out the batch facility which I had managed not to notice before but is really a good help! Ta!
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1. Allow viewing and removing uploaded but not yet reviewed (pending) batches (useful in case you uploaded wrong file, etc.)
2. Send original names of uploaded files with the list of unfinished (approved but not yet online) files.
It will allow to implement automatic submission without fetching details of all the images and thus will significantly reduce the server load, make submission process faster and more reliable.
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Is it too late here to say that I would just like to see a little less work. There is too much metadata of impossible things to worry about. Is it editorial, yes or no. If it has people and no model release, then it's editorial by default and we don't need to try and count the number of people in it. The 3 tier keywording system is enough to not bother with. It's just too arduous. Why would we want to spend our lives keywording an image 3 times? Ludicrous. If you want to see more uploads, then sit down and devise a system where the contributor makes the fewest clicks per upload. There is nothing finer than a thoughtful agency who considers the contributors' time. Thanks.
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- Change from a character limit to a keyword limit, with keywords being comma separated so multiple word keywords count as one.
- Allow more keywords while editing, with a red star/outline/whatever to show that we can't save until we're under the limit. It's much easier to pick and choose what we do and don't want to keep when all the info is in the edit box to start with (see e.g. FAA's editing. Or Crated's).
- I can see a need for tiered keywords, but can it be two rather than three, and make it easy to select which ones are "essentials" with something similar to Zazzle's "power" keywords where you click on the keyword to toggle if a keyword is a "power" one or not. The first 10 added are automatically top tier, but if you're a Lightroom user it's so easy to change.
Thanks for listening.
that's a great one! Alamy should really listen and implement it!
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Is it too late here to say that I would just like to see a little less work. There is too much metadata of impossible things to worry about. Is it editorial, yes or no. If it has people and no model release, then it's editorial by default and we don't need to try and count the number of people in it. The 3 tier keywording system is enough to not bother with. It's just too arduous. Why would we want to spend our lives keywording an image 3 times? Ludicrous. If you want to see more uploads, then sit down and devise a system where the contributor makes the fewest clicks per upload. There is nothing finer than a thoughtful agency who considers the contributors' time. Thanks.
I agree with Zeus. Stop messing about with having to add main keywords, and mid level keywords. If you want to weight keywords, you can give more weight to the first 6 or 7. Or better yet, weight the searches toward the descriptions, as some other sites do.
Until a couple of years ago, we just had to check a box stating we had releases or not. Now you have followed the micros in insisting we assign however many releases to the picture. If you shoot large groups of people this is prohibitive.
I like Alamy, but with the low levels of sales and revenue, it isn't really worth the cumbersome upload process. I only submit images quarterly or less often.
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I'd love a refresh page function on the Manage Images page. The only way to do it now is to change over to another option such as "Images Ready" and then go back to "Images Not Ready."
I find it easy to lose track of what I've edited when doing batches of unrelated photos.
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I'd love a refresh page function on the Manage Images page. The only way to do it now is to change over to another option such as "Images Ready" and then go back to "Images Not Ready."
I find it easy to lose track of what I've edited when doing batches of unrelated photos.
I usually do it by clicking the "Go to page" after writing "1" in the box (if that's the page I'm working on). That will refresh the page.
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One more thing, if anyone else has not mentioned it.
I like the old version better because it was simple and effective. I could edit a few images on the same page without having to click if I don't want to.
I hope Alamy will find ways to make contributors more effective and not use newer web design to slow us down.
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I'd love a refresh page function on the Manage Images page. The only way to do it now is to change over to another option such as "Images Ready" and then go back to "Images Not Ready."
I find it easy to lose track of what I've edited when doing batches of unrelated photos.
"cmd R" on Mac or "ctrl R" on PC works at me…
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I like the old version better because it was simple and effective. I could edit a few images on the same page without having to click if I don't want to.
^This.
I mentioned that in my post above, and someone else did before me. I think this and no more tabs are the most important to improve productivity.
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The most important thing for me is first an ftp upload!!! All other things are nice to have but not important. Then you need a batch process to read the ITPC Headers from a jpg. Thats it! But currently your upload process is a mess, sorry. But we are in 2014 now.
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I'd like to be able to add a note to reviewers from time to time. For example, I am about to upload a few images which, by their very nature, were rather more 'grab shots' than I would normally send. But I think they have value. I would like to be able to point out that I am AWARE thery are not 100% top notch but that there is a reason....
Often I don't upload 'marginal' photos of things which I think are a bit unusual but useful, for fear of being cast into the outer darkness of no more uploads for a month....
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THE WORST UPLOADING PROCESS !
"Simple is the best"- as old people say...
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One button to indicate editorial.
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Maybe the option to amend certain details while images are still waiting to go online. Two of the photos I just sent up are exclusive to Alamy - scraped through approval I am pleased to say - but I only noticed AFTER that they could have gone Alamy Exclusive flagged.....
Too late now as I'm not going to risk resubbing.....
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is the new upload tool done? i wanna uplaod now..
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Less Flash. less dropdown menus. In fact none might be nice.
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Three things:
- Please get rid of keyword tiers (like everyone else says), or simplify it (a lot). I suppose all contributors spend a considerable amount of time keywording their work pre-upload. It's exasperating having to do it again post-upload.
- Please PLEASE include an 'Editorial only' option, instead of making us select several different 'restrictions' for the same effect (as explained to me by one of your contributor liaison people). By all means, keep restrictions as an option, but simplify Editorial submissions.
- Let us decide if 'number of people in the image' requires a model release. For instance, blurry backgrounds and shots of legs don't require model releases (generally speaking), but your system automatically selects 'RM' if you indicate that the image contains people and you don't have model releases.
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- Please PLEASE include an 'Editorial only' option, instead of making us select several different 'restrictions' for the same effect (as explained to me by one of your contributor liaison people). By all means, keep restrictions as an option, but simplify Editorial submissions.
Wouldn't that then exclude, for example, - "Internal use and external non-advertising use" ? Which is potentially a legitimate use for unreleased content.
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Only one set of keywords
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If you really need to have main and secondary keywords, then you can import the first 8 keywords as "main", without asking for manual intervention of course.
OT/ This would not work for the vast majority of users using Lightroom since Lightroom puts keywords in alphabetical order.
(First, an edit - I meant "essential" instead of "main", my error, sorry).
Then let's make the essential keywords non-compulsory.
Or map them to a different (usually) unused IPTC field.
About the Lightroom alphabetical order, we need to ask Adobe to fix that in version 7.
I stopped keywording in LR for that reason.
I use StockSubmitter only for keywording. Works great and save the keywords in your order. Than, just for my archive in Lightroom I choose "Read Metadata From File". In this way I can find a picture in few seconds using Lightroom but each photo has metadata with keywords in "my order"...:-)
This is just a quote because I was reading at the beginning of this thread about it, we all hope that Lightroom will soon solve this issue. Regarding Alamy I'd love to see an easier process ;)
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Dear ALAMY,
as You can see, we have wrote 5 pages of opinions.
And You?
What did You improve?
Nothing!
Still same Bu++ sh++ upload system...
So, we are waiting.... on better upload system AND more sales.
If You still monitor this thread I wish You a nice day.
Kind regards.
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This thread was started by Alamy a month ago. So, it is impossible to implement such a big changes in that short period of time. Be patient. I respect they will to hear our opinions.
Let's hope they'll actauly do something about it.
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I'd love to have an "Alamy Export Plugin" for Lightroom. Or at least FTP Upload so we could use the traditional Lightroom SDK to export from RAW Files directly to an FTP server at Alamy.
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I'd love to have an "Alamy Export Plugin" for Lightroom. Or at least FTP Upload so we could use the traditional Lightroom SDK to export from RAW Files directly to an FTP server at Alamy.
http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/3417-changes/?p=55710 (http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/3417-changes/?p=55710)
The good news is that we are rolling the FTP option out to all contributors over the next month or so.
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I could easily have a few 1000 More Images there But, stock is {To Me} about cost effectiveness , Uploading to Alamy is simply way to Time consuming. I have told Owners of sites for years "Whoever Makes this Process the easiest, Wins" I can do Hundreds an Hour at 123,P5,SS and DP. I applaud Alamy for this move, Hope it comes sooner than Later. I have a few 100 That passed QC and I just can't take the time to go through this antiquated Process. It's just silly Nowadays especially for those with a Large amount Of files. Also This Large File size thing??? For RF? Why? Thats totally silly also.
Good Luck.
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Here is my top 3
1- the option to upload vectors via the site, one at a time (not at least 500, that's ridiculous)
2- the option to upload vectors via the site, one at a time (not at least 500, that's ridiculous)
3- the option to upload vectors via the site, one at a time (not at least 500, that's ridiculous)
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I could easily have a few 1000 More Images there But, stock is {To Me} about cost effectiveness ... I can do Hundreds an Hour at 123,P5,SS and DP.
Yesterday I sold a file at Alamy for $250 (10 year editorial book licence). I get 50% of that. So $125 NET. I would have to make 500 subscription sales at SS (I'm not there) to earn $125 and the US govt would tax me 30%. My average NET return per download in 2014 at Alamy is currently appx $45. (Yes I know that not all microstock sales are subs).
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12672675/screenshot/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-04%20at%2018.11.07.png)
My best selling image there has only 7 sales and has earned me, I think, appx $115 NET. My best earning image there has 1 sale and has earned me appx $130 NET today. Now this is obviously peanuts compared with iStock/Getty combined (or I am guessing SS) where an image which performs well will earn many thousands. But this was not an image which would ever have sold well enough to work as microstock.
I would estimate that appx none of the images which I upload to Alamy will ever make anywhere even vaguely near 500 sales. Does that mean that I should not upload to Alamy ? (Personally I find the process of uploading and keywording to be easy - and it helps me to focus on whether the image actually has any useful narrative).
I agree that it is all about cost effectiveness. That image I licenced yesterday for $250 was a second or third choice selection - what I mean is that it is not one which I initially picked out. That tells me that I need to focus my mind better on what the images I sell tend to have in common. Because I should have spotted it. And I should be shooting more images like it.
I am not arguing against microstock. I have massively enjoyed iStock over the years and have learned a lot from the experience. It's just that I think that some images and subjects work as microstock and others can work really well at Alamy. I think that microstock is cost effective for images which have the potential to sell in volume.
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Yesterday I sold a file at Alamy for $250 (10 year editorial book licence). I get 50% of that. So $125 NET. I would have to make 500 subscription sales at SS (I'm not there) to earn $125 and the US govt would tax me 30%. My average NET return per download in 2014 at Alamy is currently appx $45. (Yes I know that not all microstock sales are subs).
Yes, these Alamy sales are nice but it's easier to make 500 subs sales at SS (329, actually*) than one large sale at Alamy
*not all subs sales are $.25. In fact, at SS it's quite easy to reach the $.38 tier
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I could easily have a few 1000 More Images there But, stock is {To Me} about cost effectiveness , Uploading to Alamy is simply way to Time consuming. I have told Owners of sites for years "Whoever Makes this Process the easiest, Wins" I can do Hundreds an Hour at 123,P5,SS and DP. I applaud Alamy for this move, Hope it comes sooner than Later.
Even some new sites seem not to understand this. Unbelievable.
I have a few 100 That passed QC and I just can't take the time to go through this antiquated Process. It's just silly Nowadays especially for those with a Large amount Of files. Also This Large File size thing??? For RF? Why? Thats totally silly also.
Good Luck.
One more suggestion for Alamy: please, do not delete the back log - either voluntarily or in error - when you'll switch to the new upload.
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Thanks for all the suggestions so far, they're all helpful and it means that you can at least know that what you request will be considered, discussed and (if possible), implemented here at Alamy HQ.
As Dook kindly pointed out - a project for this size of overhaul is massive and big changes take months to develop, test and deploy, not weeks. :)
That said we do have at least one 'quick win' on the way. As previously mentioned we have begun rolling out FTP upload for all and this should be complete by the end of January. You can check to see if you've got it yet by clicking the upload link from the Alamy dashboard. If FTP has been rolled out to your account, you'll see it as an option. Hopefully vector upload for all will be next but we can't confirm that just yet.
We've begun mapping out how a new, revised process will work and we've got some really exciting features for you that we think you'll love once they're ready.
Thanks again,
Alamy
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Thnx for infos.
Regards.
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Keyword tiers are one of the better things Alamy does, I'd like to see other sites adopt that or something similar. Spending a few extra seconds making sure our images have good keywords helps buyers find them. What's more important uploading millions of images as quickly as possible or getting sales?
I agree, despite the extra work.
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Keyword tiers are one of the better things Alamy does, I'd like to see other sites adopt that or something similar. Spending a few extra seconds making sure our images have good keywords helps buyers find them. What's more important uploading millions of images as quickly as possible or getting sales?
I agree, despite the extra work.
The order you put keywords in is enough to specify which ones are the most important.
Why not just taking first N keywords as the most important?
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Could you please stop to make me extra work. Why do i have to edit the "essential words" and "main keywords" for each single image.
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Nothing has changed or?
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Your uploading system is in general fine.
THE BIG PROBLEM : Your keywording system ! That is the reason why I´m not uploading at your site anymore. When I pay a keyworder to keyword my images, and then ALAMY messes it all up with the keyword system. Then it´s just not worth it.
Keep your keyword system simple. One field for all 50 keywords, one field for titel and one for descreption. And PLEASE make your algoritm use normal EXIF data, because thats where photographers put the keywords, titel and description. NOT PHOTOSHOPS STRANGE KEYWORDING RATINGS. NORMAL EXIF.
Looking foreward to the change so I can contribute to ALAMY again.
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One of the most laborous and boring sites to upload to. Most of the time I just give up after 10 or so thinking I'll come back later and never do. been this way since day One. Ya know guys "whoever makes this the easiest wins" Thats all there is to it.
And...what this DACS Payback, a non profit organisation set up to distribute money to visual arts for secondary licenses in the UK market.
You want 50% to pay me and your a Non profit?? what am I Missing.
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One of the most laborous and boring sites to upload to. Most of the time I just give up after 10 or so thinking I'll come back later and never do. been this way since day One. Ya know guys "whoever makes this the easiest wins" Thats all there is to it.
And...what this DACS Payback, a non profit organisation set up to distribute money to visual arts for secondary licenses in the UK market.
You want 50% to pay me and your a Non profit?? what am I Missing.
Alamy will do all the work for you with DACS and take 50%, if you don't want the hassle. Or look in the alamy forum and there are lots of threads about how to fill in the DACS form on their site and then you keep 100%.