Author Topic: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system (Read 59480 times)

djpadavona · « **Reply #150 on:** February 09, 2013, 14:03 »

Quote from: hotwalkn on February 08, 2013, 16:43

Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?

It won't work. SS knows what it is doing. Many of us expressed concerns about what SS would become as a publicly traded company answering to shareholders. Here's your first sign.

They will implement first at BigStock, and soon after at SS. And that will be my cue to end this 6 year relationship with microstock altogether. Really, it isn't worth fighting for anymore. I made decent money, no arguments and no regrets. It's almost time to abandon ship.

I'm almost to payout at BigStock and 123, at which time I will close 2 more accounts. I'll let everyone else fight over bread crumbs.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #151 on:** February 09, 2013, 14:17 »

Quote from: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 14:03

Quote from: hotwalkn on February 08, 2013, 16:43
Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?

It won't work. SS knows what it is doing. Many of us expressed concerns about what SS would become as a publicly traded company answering to shareholders. Here's your first sign.

They will implement first at BigStock, and soon after at SS. And that will be my cue to end this 6 year relationship with microstock altogether. Really, it isn't worth fighting for anymore. I made decent money, no arguments and no regrets. It's almost time to abandon ship.

My heart wants to argue with you, but my head's having a hard time marshaling the facts

I am not uploading to SS until the other shoe droos - which I think it most certainly will; the only unknown is when. The other shoe will be a reduction in royalties for almost everyone to the chart shown for BigStock. I'll leave my port there for the moment.

I think I might abandon the big micro agencies and just upload to the promising (ethical, fair) new ones in the hope of catching a future wave. I don't do this full time and I don't want to pay politics with bean counting CEOs. I realize that means a lot less money.

In my case it's almost 8.5 years. What really ticks me off is that it didn't have to be this way.

gbalex · « **Reply #152 on:** February 09, 2013, 14:48 »

Quote from: jsnover on February 09, 2013, 14:17

Quote from: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 14:03
Quote from: hotwalkn on February 08, 2013, 16:43
Maybe if we rock the boat with BS, it will stir an air of caution with SS?

It won't work. SS knows what it is doing. Many of us expressed concerns about what SS would become as a publicly traded company answering to shareholders. Here's your first sign.

They will implement first at BigStock, and soon after at SS. And that will be my cue to end this 6 year relationship with microstock altogether. Really, it isn't worth fighting for anymore. I made decent money, no arguments and no regrets. It's almost time to abandon ship.

My heart wants to argue with you, but my head's having a hard time marshaling the facts

I am not uploading to SS until the other shoe droos - which I think it most certainly will; the only unknown is when. The other shoe will be a reduction in royalties for almost everyone to the chart shown for BigStock. I'll leave my port there for the moment.

I think I might abandon the big micro agencies and just upload to the promising (ethical, fair) new ones in the hope of catching a future wave. I don't do this full time and I don't want to pay politics with bean counting CEOs. I realize that means a lot less money.

In my case it's almost 8.5 years. What really ticks me off is that it didn't have to be this way.

I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed. How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?

nicku · « **Reply #153 on:** February 09, 2013, 15:06 »

Back in 2008 SS increased the commissions because IS was no. 1 microstock agency... SS had to do something back then. Now SS is no.1 and too many contributors are at 0.38.

We must to do something ( a Deactivation Day is required )or we will just stay on our chairs and complain on this forum about what will happen on SS in the near future??

I personally worked hard, very hard and invested many thousands of dollars to be where i am now. I won't accept to be screwed by SS/BS or any other agency.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #154 on:** February 09, 2013, 15:43 »

Quote from: nicku on February 09, 2013, 15:06

...We must to do something ( a Deactivation Day is required )or we will just stay on our chairs and complain on this forum about what will happen on SS in the near future??

Subscription sites depend upon a regular flow of new imagery to get existing subscribers to renew their subscriptions (which is why Jupiter Images pushed StockXpert content onto photos.com and Jupiter Images Unlimited (in 2008 I think) because subscribers were complaining.

The easiest thing to do - but it will be hard to coordinate as I'm sure the big factories will keep doing what they do regardless - is just to stop uploading for now, possibly also leaving BigStock on the Ides of March.

Those in the bridge to BigStock won't want to leave right away as they get a 6 month "stay of execution" with 6 months at 38 cents for each subscription download. I'm as certain as I can be without having been in on the discussions that this was a considered tactic to defuse any opposition. Keep the major players quiet until the stink has died down.

The unfortunate timing of this means that people fleeing iStock exclusivity will be uploading like banshees to Shutterstock to get their portfolio up and earning as fast as they can. That may also blunt any impact of actions by those leaving or halting uplaods.

Lots of people aren't going to be able to just leave Shutterstock because of the amount of money it earns them. I think they're just starting down the road now that iStock already traveled - the one that led to me all but leaving there on D-Day. I wish they'd reconsider, but I think they're now all about the numbers and they have enough contributors and visibility they'll happily lose small fry like me as part of that.

gbalex · « **Reply #155 on:** February 09, 2013, 16:01 »

Quote from: jsnover on February 09, 2013, 15:43

Quote from: nicku on February 09, 2013, 15:06
...We must to do something ( a Deactivation Day is required )or we will just stay on our chairs and complain on this forum about what will happen on SS in the near future??

Those in the bridge to BigStock won't want to leave right away as they get a 6 month "stay of execution" with 6 months at 38 cents for each subscription download. I'm as certain as I can be without having been in on the discussions that this was a considered tactic to defuse any opposition. Keep the major players quiet until the stink has died down.

I think they're just starting down the road now that iStock already traveled - the one that led to me all but leaving there on D-Day. I wish they'd reconsider, but I think they're now all about the numbers and they have enough contributors and visibility they'll happily lose small fry like me as part of that.

To begin with as you know they cherry picked who they wanted to invite to use bridge and now by guaranteeing our current rate they are assuring that they continue to get images from us for the next 6 months. That should be our first signal to run.

And I agree they show every indication of going down the same path, which gives us an indication that Jon may plan on cashing out, it seems that the chances are slim that he does not understand that his submitters are also a significant portion of his buyers and when you screw them they will go elsewhere. This time after getting screwed at IS they will migrate more quickly... it is plausible based on traffic & IS earnings reports that IS lost the 36% that SS picked up in the 3rd of 2012.

"SS Revenue for the third quarter was $42.3 million, a 36% increase from the third quarter of 2011."

"http://investor.shutterstock.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=251362&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1759499&highlight=
"Shutterstock Reports Third Quarter 2012 Financial Results

Snip "Revenue for the third quarter was $42.3 million, a 36% increase from the third quarter of 2011. The Company experienced growth in all product lines and in all major global territories.

Financial Outlook

The Company's current financial and operating expectations for the fourth quarter of 2012, full year 2012 and full year 2013 are as follows:

Fourth Quarter 2012
Revenue of $44 - $45 million

Full Year 2012
Revenue of $164 - $166 million

Cash as Percent of Total Assets (%) (MRQ) 73.73"

djpadavona · « **Reply #156 on:** February 09, 2013, 16:14 »

Quote from: cidepix on February 08, 2013, 11:47

this tells me I need to work harder to make my own site my best earner.. It is the only place I am sure I won't get screwed..

No, you do get screwed. Now it is Google refusing to link to your site after scraping your photos for Google Images. I see no way out. We can't even take matters into our own hands any more.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #157 on:** February 09, 2013, 16:15 »

Problem is, I've already quit Fotolia because I couldn't trust them, I've stopped uploading to iStock, but if I really want to protect my images I should quit them. If I also quit SS and BS to prevent them shafting me with a likely commission cut, then I'm left with 123 (currently stopped uploading because of the levels thing), Dreamstime, DP and Canstock out of the top 9 agencies and its no longer worthwhile producing anything for anyone because the return would be so low (in the chart on the right, all the other agencies combined don't make as much as SS, iS, Fot and BS).

djpadavona · « **Reply #158 on:** February 09, 2013, 16:16 »

Quote from: jsnover on February 08, 2013, 12:52

Blah, blah - new business - blah blah - big EL number (I don't think I've ever had one at BigStock) - blah blah - passionate - blah blah - let's tackle this together! - blah blah

Exactly. I have sold 1 EL at BigStock since 2007.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #159 on:** February 09, 2013, 16:24 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on February 09, 2013, 16:15

Problem is, I've already quit Fotolia because I couldn't trust them, I've stopped uploading to iStock, but if I really want to protect my images I should quit them. If I also quit SS and BS to prevent them shafting me with a likely commission cut, then I'm left with 123 (currently stopped uploading because of the levels thing), Dreamstime, DP and Canstock out of the top 9 agencies and its no longer worthwhile producing anything for anyone because the return would be so low (in the chart on the right, all the other agencies combined don't make as much as SS, iS, Fot and BS).

It's ads on your blog and a side line with a Sandwich Board advertising a mattress discounter (that may not translate to Qatar though!)

I already did leave IS; FT wouldn't have me back after I left IS exclusivity; I've stopped uploading at 123rf. There are new things - I'm uploading at GL Stock and Fine Art America, but they're not going to replace the 60% of my stock income that IS+PP+SS+BigStock represent.

I've been doing opportunistic stuff of late anyway - not shoots specifically set up for stock - travel stuff because I was there and wanted to or exploring/improving new skills like HDR. May go back to doing some illustrations which I stopped doing when I was exclusive and iStock shoved them at the back of the best match for a while.

I don't really know about the replacement, but I do think I've reached the end of my personal tether in terms of cutting these agencies slack because they're earning money and tolerating each cut with a "well, it could be worse, so just soldier on" attitude.

I know that isn't exactly a plan, but that's where I am

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #160 on:** February 09, 2013, 16:55 »

If SS goes bad, I think my only sensible course would be to do only a minimum of stuff for the micros and concentrate on other markets, while taking whatever residual income carries on coming in from them.

EmberMike · « **Reply #161 on:** February 09, 2013, 16:56 »

From an Account Exec at Bigstock:

Quote

...we can guarantee Bigstock and Shutterstock will continue to work independently, targeting different customers. We also would not want to affect your sales at Shutterstock. We will monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties on both sites to avoid any damage to our contributors' earnings. An we promise to keep you all continuously informed.

Really I don't think I can take the word of an AE that the two companies will remain independent of each other. It's a little nice to know that at this point it sounds like there are no plans to merge in any way, either in whole or in shared policies, royalty rates, etc. But as we know all too well, things change. Today it's independence all the way, SS and Bigstock are two different companies. Tomorrow, who knows.

cthoman · « **Reply #162 on:** February 09, 2013, 17:00 »

Quote from: jsnover on February 09, 2013, 14:17

In my case it's almost 8.5 years. What really ticks me off is that it didn't have to be this way.

I agree. It really didn't have to be this way, and it burns me up knowing how much money is being left on the table. Realistically, most of us should have made 2 to 3 times more than we made over the years. But, apparently, that wasn't enough because these companies that we built seem to all want more.

cthoman · « **Reply #163 on:** February 09, 2013, 17:03 »

Quote from: EmberMike on February 09, 2013, 16:56

From an Account Exec at Bigstock:

Quote
...we can guarantee Bigstock and Shutterstock will continue to work independently, targeting different customers. We also would not want to affect your sales at Shutterstock. We will monitor the performance of subscriptions and how they influence royalties on both sites to avoid any damage to our contributors' earnings. An we promise to keep you all continuously informed.

Really I don't think I can take the word of an AE that the two companies will remain independent of each other. It's a little nice to know that at this point it sounds like there are no plans to merge in any way, either in whole or in shared policies, royalty rates, etc. But as we know all too well, things change. Today it's independence all the way, SS and Bigstock are two different companies. Tomorrow, who knows.

When they bought BS didn't they say that they had no plans to sell subs there. Yet, here we are.

Travelling-light · « **Reply #164 on:** February 09, 2013, 17:04 »

I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed. How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?
[/quote]

Void is the right word. I've often wondered why they keep on.
It can only be because they can't think of anything else to do.

Unless it's a conspiracy by the rich to save the world

If the poor have no money, they can't spend any, so won't use up the earth's scarce resources...

djpadavona · « **Reply #165 on:** February 09, 2013, 18:46 »

A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time. It's a bit disingenuous for me to threaten to leave BigStock and stay at CanStockPhoto.

Honestly I plan to pull out of CanStockPhoto, 123, and BigStock because of these very low subscription commissions. Just waiting to reach payout. Too bad, because I like Duncan and CanStockPhoto is great for uploading and ultra fast reviews. I just don't feel willing to accept 25c commissions any more.

lisafx · « **Reply #166 on:** February 09, 2013, 18:51 »

Quote from: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 18:46

A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time.

This is true in theory, but in practice, I almost NEVER get a .25 sub at Canstock. Most of my sub sales there are through distribution channels, and I get .34 for those. Still not as good as .38 at SS, but more in the ballpark.

djpadavona · « **Reply #167 on:** February 09, 2013, 18:53 »

6 of my last 20 sales at CanStockPhoto are 25c subs. Max sale is $1 for a Large. That's pretty pathetic. Well, I guess it will be an easy decision to make.

gbalex · « **Reply #168 on:** February 09, 2013, 20:30 »

Quote from: Travelling-light on February 09, 2013, 17:04

I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed. How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?

Void is the right word. I've often wondered why they keep on.
It can only be because they can't think of anything else to do.

Unless it's a conspiracy by the rich to save the world If the poor have no money, they can't spend any, so won't use up the earth's scarce resources...
[/quote]

I have heard, yachts, luxury homes in Aspen and helicopters are not so green.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #169 on:** February 09, 2013, 22:26 »

Quote from: lisafx on February 09, 2013, 18:51

Quote from: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 18:46
A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time.

This is true in theory, but in practice, I almost NEVER get a .25 sub at Canstock. Most of my sub sales there are through distribution channels, and I get .34 for those. Still not as good as .38 at SS, but more in the ballpark.

34 cents? I only get 30 cents - is that something related to your Canstock camera color?

CanStock is an odd critter - and I like Duncan a bunch too - because it's such a mixture of prices. The 25 cent subs are no good but relatively rare; the Fotosearch sales are nice.

Even at CanStock, the XL-Tiff is $2.50; a large is $2 if it's instant (which a good number of mine are) and the Fotosearch sales are much more lucrative (though a bit thin on the ground of late) - $3.80 for XS to $19.80 for XL.

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #170 on:** February 10, 2013, 00:14 »

Of my last 20 sales at CanStock, only 2 were 25c subs, a number were 30c subs and most were regular DLs at $0.50 to $2.50. The $19.80 DLs are frequent enough to give a decent RPDL and rank them #5 in total $$$ after SS, iS, DT, and 123, just a little ahead of FT. The 25c subs are not annoying there because they are so rare.

swedstock · « **Reply #171 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:40 »

I just got a mail thst confirm that there will be no opt out of subs.
I'm definitely out. I hope everyone drops them to send a clear message to HQ

suemack · « **Reply #172 on:** February 10, 2013, 05:59 »

Quote from: moori on February 10, 2013, 04:40

I just got a mail thst confirm that there will be no opt out of subs.
I'm definitely out. I hope everyone drops them to send a clear message to HQ

I asked that question as well and haven't had an answer as yet. When they do confirm it I too will be out.

Microbius · « **Reply #173 on:** February 10, 2013, 06:23 »

Quote from: Travelling-light on February 09, 2013, 17:04

I hear you, it is pure unadulterated greed. How many millions are enough to fill the void of avaricious soul's willing to do anything to possess more than what they need or for that matter deserve?

Void is the right word. I've often wondered why they keep on.
It can only be because they can't think of anything else to do.

Unless it's a conspiracy by the rich to save the world

If the poor have no money, they can't spend any, so won't use up the earth's scarce resources...
[/quote]

I am afraid it is the nature of the game once a company goes public.

They literally have to care about returns to the share holders above all other concerns. That is the only moral code a traded company has: maximize the return for the shareholder.

It is a flaw in the system, not to do with the ethics of any particular company.

The only solution would be for contributors to own most of the shares of an agency, then different priorities could come to the fore, but how long would that last? as soon as a company became successful some/most contributors would sell their shares.

The system sucks for building sustainable companies, great for asset strippers and and short term chancers.

fotografer · « **Reply #174 on:** February 10, 2013, 09:39 »

Quote from: lisafx on February 09, 2013, 18:51

Quote from: djpadavona on February 09, 2013, 18:46
A sincere question -

How many of us have our portfolios at Canstock? We have lived with 25c subscriptions there for a long time.

This is true in theory, but in practice, I almost NEVER get a .25 sub at Canstock. Most of my sub sales there are through distribution channels, and I get .34 for those. Still not as good as .38 at SS, but more in the ballpark.

Similar here. Of the last 20 sales 13 are between 1$ and 2$ and only one is 25c.

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Author Topic: BigStock e-mail about subscriptions and an RC-like payment system (Read 59480 times)

djpadavona

Jo Ann Snover

gbalex

nicku

Jo Ann Snover

gbalex

djpadavona

BaldricksTrousers

djpadavona

Jo Ann Snover

BaldricksTrousers

EmberMike

cthoman

cthoman

Travelling-light

djpadavona

lisafx

djpadavona

gbalex

Jo Ann Snover

sgoodwin4813

swedstock

suemack

Microbius

fotografer

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