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Author Topic: Who is getting 27 subs? Are you staying?  (Read 17846 times)

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« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2013, 14:32 »
+3
This situation is almost identical to what happened when Getty bought StockXpert - they shut it down, replaced it with ThinkStock, and slashed royalties. SS didn't change Bigstock's name, but it's not the same agency anymore. I've got a bad feeling about this.  :-\


« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2013, 16:17 »
-3
Perhaps its not all bad.  Just got my first $120 SOD commission with SS.  A few of them each month would take away the pain of the low subs with BigStock :)

« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2013, 16:32 »
+1
Bigstock support replied this afternoon that they would remove my portfolio but leave my account so I could "...request your earnings at your convenience." My convenience would be to request my earnings right now, but that wasn't being offered :)

My images may show up in searches for up to 48 hours but downloads won't be possible.

« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2013, 12:53 »
0
I wrote to BS support and asked them to deactivate my portfolio without closing my account. I don't want to close my account altogether, in the hope that the situation at BS might improve in the future. I don't know if BS will give me that option though, I'm waiting to find out what they say. I'll remove my portfolio if they leave me not other choice. I'll let you know how it goes when I hear back from BS.

stocked

« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2013, 14:03 »
+3
Everyone who stays shouldn't wonder if SS applies the same commission scheme in the coming months.

« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2013, 14:07 »
+1
The problem with Bigstock is that you can not just delete some of your files at your will, every time you need to delete some files you have to write to them to do it. If i had that option i would just delete the files that are unique, and leave the rest with them. I didn't want to close my account, but that was the simplest way to go about it.
And, about the difference between 38c and 27c, it's 11c, looks like not much , right?, but i dont think you should look at the absolute value, it's not 11c less, it's 30% less. Any business that is about to lose 30% income would be panic, no matter what is your gross income, you get more sale you lose more, you get less sale you lose less, but it's 30% for everyone, it's very much significant, to my view.
And, the problem with the subs at BS is not only the 11c less, it's the structure that allow buyers to buy 5 images a day for 69$ a month (or something like that), that is  a perfect replacement for the 50$ for 5OD at SS, because many people dont  need 750 images and dont want to pay 250$ a month, but 69$ is just slightly more than 50$ and gives them 30 times more images. I am sure there are those who need, say 10-20 images from SS, which could cost them around 100$ -200$ would go to see if those images are available at BS, and if yes, they would get the 69$ subscription. Just see how much you would lose that way. I know i see my income going from SS to BS , but i lose 3 times more at SS than i earn at BS. And why, you ask, would they go to BS and not other agencies that offer same kind of subscription plan, the reason is, if people are comfortable doing business with SS, they would first go to BS that belongs to the same company.
just my 2 cents.

« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2013, 14:15 »
-2
I'm rather confused what 27 vs 38 means, how does this all effect me?

« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2013, 14:21 »
0
I'm rather confused what 27 vs 38 means, how does this all effect me?

believe it isn't, if it was sure you would know, BTW this discussion is about the introducing of subscription at BigStock ;)

« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2013, 14:26 »
+3
And, about the difference between 38c and 27c, it's 11c, looks like not much , right?, but i dont think you should look at the absolute value, it's not 11c less, it's 30% less. Any business that is about to lose 30% income would be panic, no matter what is your gross income, you get more sale you lose more, you get less sale you lose less, but it's 30% for everyone, it's very much significant, to my view.

Actually, it a lot more because BS didn't previously sell anything for 38 cents. 50 cents was the lowest you could get before. So, every sub sale is probably cutting your profit in half (at the very least). That's a pleasant way of looking at it.  :'(

« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2013, 14:36 »
+4
If it didn't make much difference, they wouldn't be doing it, would they?

« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2013, 16:43 »
0
Everyone who stays shouldn't wonder if SS applies the same commission scheme in the coming months.
Leaving wont make any difference.  The majority of the big microstock producers never seem to leave sites.  They could make a difference, if they took collective action but they never seem to.  So leaving will just mean they have less competition.  I'm done with doing that.

« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2013, 16:57 »
+2
We have left. We don't compete with the big producers, do you?
As I said before, I think maybe they don't want the small producers, we are probably too expensive for them to maintain. Think about it, all those niche files, all need to be inspected, all cluttering up their data base, hardly ever selling. If they wanted us, they wouldn't have cut our money, would they?
So, in leaving, we've given them what they want.
The people who need the niche files will just have to buy them elsewhere. Everyone is happy ;)

WarrenPrice

« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2013, 17:00 »
0
Everyone who stays shouldn't wonder if SS applies the same commission scheme in the coming months.
Leaving wont make any difference.  The majority of the big microstock producers never seem to leave sites.  They could make a difference, if they took collective action but they never seem to.  So leaving will just mean they have less competition.  I'm done with doing that.

And all this time I was thinking that you are one of the Big Microstock Producers.   ;D

... and I agree with your philosophy; Why cut off your nose to spite your face?   :-\
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 17:02 by WarrenPrice »

RacePhoto

« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2013, 22:42 »
+1
I'm rather confused what 27 vs 38 means, how does this all effect me?


It is rather confusing because it's comparing SS sales for people on the top level to BS sales, where almost no one will ever reach 50,000 downloads in a 12 month period. BS used to pretty well sell at the lowest level, 50c downloads, often $1.00 downloads. There's a cut in that as well?

People who are just starting will get 25c on ss, 25c on BS. After $500 you get 33c vs 25c until you make $3,000 on SS, then it goes up to 36c until $10,000 and over that 38c. So the people who are saying 25c vs 38c must all be over $10,000 in lifetime earnings on SS? Otherwise it's just a math game. (and for some reason I don't know where they are getting the 27 cents? Are they assuming 200 DLs instead of the base number of 25c?)

The argument could just as well be 29c vs 38c? But roughly estimating, it's 10 cents a download less on BS than SS.

Also BS doesn't license as much as SS, so there's really not as much of a loss.

Example, if someone make,s $1,000 a month on SS, they probably make $75 a month on BS. It's a low site already. Potentially the BS subs will cut into the higher value commissions on SS. We don't know, but it could? Then the loss isn't just per download, it's also stealing sales from the better site, in favor of the lower paying site.

If someone only compares loss in commissions on BS to what they make on BS, it could be 1/3rd what they get now. That's bad enough. If it's siphoning off sales from SS, then they are losing 10c a download from their usual sub price on SS. (25% cut in case all the numbers are getting confusing)

And the next part is people suspecting that SS will decide to start some similar plan where instead of the promised return for people who have worked for eight years to reach that $10,000 level or 38c a download, we'll find some new download target like the 50,000 that BS pulled out of the air.

Personally I'm not in the bridge program, so I should be seeing subs. I haven't gotten one yet. I'm still getting 50c and $1 downloads, but I have a very small collection on BS. I stopped uploading there effective in 2011. If I had the bridge it would be nice.

Consider this, lets say that SS looked into the future, in 2010, after they bought BS, and said... we'll bridge all the large volume collections and sellers, after we have all the top photos ported over, in 2013 we'll add Subs. Smooth plan, right? They get the best and then chop the commissions. Not very contributor friendly. I don't think this was a case of chance. The bridge of the biggest collections, leading to subs was a carefully calculated plan.

I'm not going to defend the change, just pointing out that losing 10 cents a sale comparing SS sales to BS sales, where BS sales volume is much less than SS sales, is kind of deceptive for an argument.

But back to the other side, if BS subs start stealing SS download, then every sale is a loss of approximately 10 cents, and much less than people are getting now on BS. And the worse fears could be true, that SS will change the lifetime levels that people have earned and make them annual. Which would be the worst outcome of all this fiddling with levels and commissions.

SS now based on lifetime earnings, not annual sales:

$0 - $500    $0.25
$500 - $3,000    $0.33
$3,000 - $10,000    $0.36
$10,000 +    $0.38



There's your 38c - lifetime over $10,000 on SS. There's your vs 27 cents, 200 DLs on BS in the past 12 months. Hope that helped.

It's not the same for everyone.


Yeah Really? It's too high!

« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2013, 23:06 »
+1
A fair analysis, Race.  You ask why we assume a subscription rate of .27 at BigStock?  I'd say that's a fair assumption; anyone with more than 200 downloads in a year (less than 1 download every day and a half) but fewer than a thousand (an average of three downloads a day) will be at .27.  That's where I am, and I suspect that's where most of us are.

You say you haven't seen a subscription download on BigStock.  You're lucky.  I've seen a carpload of them.  My last 30 days I've had almost as many subscription sales as regular sales.  Yeah, the total's pretty small, and my revenues aren't much different than the past couple of months, so maybe I'm not losing anything.  Still, it's not an improvement, and that's a fact.

And of course there's the valid concern that Shutterstock management will decide to reduce the royalties there too.  And maybe volumes will increase and my revenues won't decline.  And maybe they will, which would suck.

So there's the real concern about cheaper downloads, and the potential for more sweeping changes.  And there's the fact that the thresholds BigStock chose are impossible for all but a very few.

RacePhoto

« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2013, 00:11 »
0
Yes, we agree. I was just trying to answer a one liner about 27c vs 38c,  that has many implications and assumptions involved.

Doesn't matter much, Rough numbers, people will make 10 cents less a download. The sales on SS are threatened to be cannibalized for moving the same buyers to BS. (and we get less) Sales on BS appear to being migrating from packages to Subs. And SS could drop the bomb on lifetime sales and institute this negative gain annual rank.

There is one potential gain that could be made for more sales from new buyers on BS, but I don't know why the same new buyers wouldn't just go to SS where there are more choices for the same price? Single image needs and package buyers shouldn't change at all, because they don't need a subscription plan and won't use it.

ps I don't get one download a day on BS. Where's that survey? ??? 62% get under 200 DLs a year on BS. (what $75 - $100 ?) Almost makes it a Who Cares question? And 8% get under 1000 DLs a year. $270 in subs - more in the old sales plan. Changing to subs is hardly worth the worry anymore. Probably why people aren't concerned about dropping BS. 90% of the people who answered, would hardly care if BS closed.

Under 200
    55 (61.8%)
200 - 999
    24 (27%)

1,000 - 1,999
    7 (7.9%)
2,000 - 9,999
    2 (2.2%)
10,000 - 19,999
    0 (0%)
20,000 - 49,999
    0 (0%)
50,000 or over
    1 (1.1%)

A fair analysis, Race.  You ask why we assume a subscription rate of .27 at BigStock?  I'd say that's a fair assumption; anyone with more than 200 downloads in a year (less than 1 download every day and a half) but fewer than a thousand (an average of three downloads a day) will be at .27.  That's where I am, and I suspect that's where most of us are.

You say you haven't seen a subscription download on BigStock.  You're lucky.  I've seen a carpload of them.  My last 30 days I've had almost as many subscription sales as regular sales.  Yeah, the total's pretty small, and my revenues aren't much different than the past couple of months, so maybe I'm not losing anything.  Still, it's not an improvement, and that's a fact.

And of course there's the valid concern that Shutterstock management will decide to reduce the royalties there too.  And maybe volumes will increase and my revenues won't decline.  And maybe they will, which would suck.

So there's the real concern about cheaper downloads, and the potential for more sweeping changes.  And there's the fact that the thresholds BigStock chose are impossible for all but a very few.

« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2013, 02:29 »
0
I wrote to BS support and asked them to deactivate my portfolio without closing my account. I don't want to close my account altogether, in the hope that the situation at BS might improve in the future. I don't know if BS will give me that option though, I'm waiting to find out what they say. I'll remove my portfolio if they leave me not other choice. I'll let you know how it goes when I hear back from BS.

Be interested to hear how you get on, they didn't give me that option unfortunately, so I closed my account.

« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2013, 11:22 »
+1
I removed my work from 123_ because of this and Canoworms too.  Why I stay with SS is beyond me, I suppose because my video does ok there.  Still my fave is DT, best sales for me but am continually distressed by the growing subscription sales.  Boys and girls of the jury, this industry is a losing proposition, get used to it.  BS is BS.  Closing note....38 beats 27 every time. 

« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2013, 11:31 »
+1
Boys and girls of the jury, this industry is a losing proposition, get used to it.  BS is BS.  Closing note....38 beats 27 every time.

I don't think that's even pessimism, just realism.   Hoping something turns this around, but not seeing what it could be.  The bottom lines is that these agencies have steadily reduced the perceived value of imagery.  They think they'll make their money in fees for search/subscription/API 'services' rather than commission-based sales of a 'product'.   

« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2013, 13:36 »
0
Am I the only one who feels this way, or is it unfreakin acceptable for them not to split sales into subs and standard?  Not to have a section where you can see what you will be earning on subs that month?  Do I have to manually count up my sales from the last 12 months every time the calendar turns to confirm they are paying the correct amount?

« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2013, 21:57 »
+1
I wrote to BS support and asked them to deactivate my portfolio without closing my account. I don't want to close my account altogether, in the hope that the situation at BS might improve in the future. I don't know if BS will give me that option though, I'm waiting to find out what they say. I'll remove my portfolio if they leave me not other choice. I'll let you know how it goes when I hear back from BS.

Be interested to hear how you get on, they didn't give me that option unfortunately, so I closed my account.

I did talk to them at BS and asked if there was an option to deactivate your portfolio while leaving your account open, and they said unfortunately no. I told them that I did not want 27 subs taking away from the 38 subs I get at SS. I told them that like many contributors I had grown cynical regarding agency decisions that in most cases benefit the agencies to the detriment of contributors. They said (I'm paraphrasing here and this is from memory) my cynicism was understandable but urged me to give the new subs program a chance - they said that BS and SS serve different markets, and the subs at BS shouldn't have any effect on my earnings at SS.  In spite of my skepticism, I told them I'd stick around and see how the program unfolds before making any decisions. Unlike the typical 'don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out' attitude that many agencies have, they did seem to genuinely care about my concerns and didn't want me to leave. I'm going to stick around for awhile and see how it goes. Earnings this month are OK, but that includes an EL, so it's hard to make a judgement.

« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2013, 22:15 »
+6
Sure they sell to different markets - until now.  What happens as buyers figure out they can get the same photos cheaper under the new "brand"? 

Lots of big names in clothing, shoes etc have bargain "outlet" stores.  They're typically located about 50 miles outside of the big city, so they don't compete with the full line stores.   But on the internet, SS and BS are right next door.

SS and BS are 2 faces of the same company.    They're starting down the road of reducing payments to contributors and 'spinning' it as another brand and a different market.


« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 22:32 by stockastic »

« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2013, 00:45 »
0
Thanks Allsa!

« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2013, 07:32 »
+2
Sure they sell to different markets - until now.  What happens as buyers figure out they can get the same photos cheaper under the new "brand"? 

Lots of big names in clothing, shoes etc have bargain "outlet" stores.  They're typically located about 50 miles outside of the big city, so they don't compete with the full line stores.   But on the internet, SS and BS are right next door.

SS and BS are 2 faces of the same company.    They're starting down the road of reducing payments to contributors and 'spinning' it as another brand and a different market.

Well stated.

« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2013, 12:59 »
+11
We've heard the "different markets" spin from pretty much every agency at this point. Especially when it comes to introducing subscriptions. Regardless of whether the admins at Bigstock believe it, I think they're wrong - just as iStock was wrong, Dreamstime, Veer...

The only thing that will assist contributors is growing the market by bringing in new buyers - Shutterstock stealing customers from Getty Images is great for those of us who aren't with Getty, but even better is a new iteration of what happened when iStock started. Companies that didn't buy stock before, or only bought in small quantities, buying images or significantly upping the volume of their purchases.

Having subscriptions at Bigstock isn't introducing anything new - it's just cheaper by a bit than Shutterstock. All it can do is cannibalize sales from somewhere else - if not SS then one of  the other microstock agencies. Given the lowball royalties, there is no way this can be good for contributors (it's neutral for those in Bridge to Bigstock whose acquiescence for 6 months has been purchased by giving them the 38 cents per download they currently earn).

The only winner in this move is SS as they get to pocket more of each sale from everyone except the Bridge folks.


 

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