MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Bigstock.com => Topic started by: Allsa on March 14, 2013, 12:34
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I've been with Bigstock since 2005, and if the second half of this month is similar to the first, I'll be seeing my lowest monthly BigStock earnings since 2006. Most of my downloads are 27¢ subs, so tell me, how is this any better that StinkStock? Is there an option to deactivate your portfolio on BS, or do you have to close your account altogether?
I'm burning mad about the injustice of being consigned to this 27¢ ghetto, while the 'Bridge to Bigstock' people enjoy 38¢ subs. I've been with SS and BS since 2005, and people who came along much later than I have get to enjoy much higher earnings. If that isn't injustice, I don't know what is! I know I'm not alone here, and I was wondering what others stuck in the 27¢ ghetto have already done or plan on doing.
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I'm leaning towards closing my account or deleting my images. I've never really earned all that much there, and I'm not really interested in more sub sales regardless of the royalty amount.
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We have closed our account.
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Is 38 cents per download much different? Maybe they will make up for the difference by getting more buyers.
Apparently it is because my thread about it did not go over well. ;D
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-big-6/ (http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-big-6/)$0-25-versus-$0-38/
This link doesn't works right. I think the dollar signs screw it up.
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There isn't much difference between .27 and .38, but as is true for a lot of what goes on in microstock, it's the principle. I kept my images both at SS and BS because they served two different functions. Now that it looks like they are morphing into the same type of company, I will take my images down...not because of the price difference between SS and BS, but because BS earned me more money (at least $.50 and sometimes $1.00 or more), and now won't.
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I was in the bridge and I closed my account immediately 'cause i think this bigstock-thing is a kind of test balloon for shutter and therefore i wanted to give them a clear feedback.
;)
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I just sent them a notice to close my account. Although my earning there in the last 3 months tripled, i have a feeling that it is getting from my SS earning. One thing i have observed is that my EL at SS just came to zero when BS offered EL and suddenly all EL i get are from BS (with 3$ less each). And now of course a bunch of 27c everyday just drive me mad. I feel bad , though, BS was the first agency who accepted me and made me feel sure about my work.
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It hasn't been mostly subs, but a fair number.
The only decision I have to make is whether I formally ask if I can opt out (others have and been told no by Bigstock support) before I have them remove my portfolio. The ides of March (http://www.digitalbristles.com/beware-the-ides-of-march/) is my day to take the files down if I don't have an opt out.
I'll then need to wait a week for my sales to vest (their one week wait is a ridiculous pain in the rear) and then request payment.
Once I'm paid I'll close the account
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It hasn't been mostly subs, but a fair number.
The only decision I have to make is whether I formally ask if I can opt out (others have and been told no by Bigstock support) before I have them remove my portfolio. The ides of March ([url]http://www.digitalbristles.com/beware-the-ides-of-march/[/url]) is my day to take the files down if I don't have an opt out.
I'll then need to wait a week for my sales to vest (their one week wait is a ridiculous pain in the rear) and then request payment.
Once I'm paid I'll close the account
That's what i did, asked them about the opt out and they say no. And yes, i had to ask them to delete all my pics first, then wait for 7 days, then request payment, and only then i can close my account.
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I'm waiting to see what they do. Supposedly after 6 months or so they are going to review the program and see if the milestones are realistic.
Of course we don't need 6 months to know that there are maybe 2 people in the world who will be able to hit that 50k mark and retain their $0.38 rate, but if they need some time to figure that out, I'm willing to give it to them.
In the meantime I have to suffer at $0.27 because I don't use the bridge, but at least I don't feel like those low amounts are cannibalizing credit sales too much since sub sales are very few and far between.
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If no opt. out for sub I will close my account. I'm just waiting until I reach limit payment.
Perhaps Shutterstock would like to test some options on Bigstock before applied them. They want to see at which point cash cow we are.
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the subs (I guess) are showing up for me as "standard license", is that ok?
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the subs (I guess) are showing up for me as "standard license", is that ok?
No idea if it's OK, but that's how mine are too. It's the royalty amount that's the giveaway :)
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Is 38 cents per download much different? Maybe they will make up for the difference by getting more buyers.
I keep reading this same comment over and over about how .27 vs. .38 doesn't make much difference. You're right, on one sale it doesn't. But microstock is supposed to be about volume.
I just calculated the difference for last month (Feb.) between what I earned in .38 subs on Shutterstock and what it would have been if each of those had been .27. Total difference was over $300. I think that's significant. I definitely have uses for that extra $300+ and would miss it if it was gone.
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I sent them a message from the "delete your account" page. My account was totally gone within 14 hours without even a thank-you-very-much for that free 50 cents they kept. :o
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For whatever reason, my sales on BS have gone up over the past several weeks. However, the bulk of this increase seems to be "normal" sales ... that is, sales for which the commission is $1.00 or $2.00. I can count on one hand the total number of sub sales over the same period. Whether or not the change in sales volume is due to more buyers being drawn in because of the availability of subs I cannot tell. For the time being, I'll continue to hang in there until and unless my own income begins to take a dump. Then all bets are off.
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Is 38 cents per download much different? Maybe they will make up for the difference by getting more buyers.
I keep reading this same comment over and over about how .27 vs. .38 doesn't make much difference. You're right, on one sale it doesn't. But microstock is supposed to be about volume.
I just calculated the difference for last month (Feb.) between what I earned in .38 subs on Shutterstock and what it would have been if each of those had been .27. Total difference was over $300. I think that's significant. I definitely have uses for that extra $300+ and would miss it if it was gone.
That's assuming you are doing over 3000 sales a month. How many people are actually doing that at SS? 100? 500? 1000? But, like I said, I had this argument before, and most people see it as making a big difference. So, I guess I'm the odd man out. ;D
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Is 38 cents per download much different? Maybe they will make up for the difference by getting more buyers.
I keep reading this same comment over and over about how .27 vs. .38 doesn't make much difference. You're right, on one sale it doesn't. But microstock is supposed to be about volume.
I just calculated the difference for last month (Feb.) between what I earned in .38 subs on Shutterstock and what it would have been if each of those had been .27. Total difference was over $300. I think that's significant. I definitely have uses for that extra $300+ and would miss it if it was gone.
I don't think microstock is supposed to be about volume, price has to play it's part too. You get a lot more volume if you give it away for free but I think you agree that is not what it's about. Bigstock lowers prices and gets sales that you think would have come from Shutterstock but Shutterstock's lower prices don't get sales that come from higher priced agencies? It's about volume and price and 25, 27, or 38 cents are way too low.
I understand what you are saying but imagine you and perhaps 99% of microstockers start as independents, you start uploading to all agencies lets say the big 8 or 10 doesn't matter, then you start growing in agencies, months/years, and then you see one agency as being a big part of your income (my case around 40%), as you know that is also the best earner for most of us that are in iStock, FT, DT, 123RF... there isn't one agency getting close to them
what is your advice if this is the pure reality, what can we do? join iStock exclusivity, FT, DT? go RM? I don't think we (most) microstockers can afford staying outside SS, it just doesn't make any sense...
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Is 38 cents per download much different? Maybe they will make up for the difference by getting more buyers.
I keep reading this same comment over and over about how .27 vs. .38 doesn't make much difference. You're right, on one sale it doesn't. But microstock is supposed to be about volume.
I just calculated the difference for last month (Feb.) between what I earned in .38 subs on Shutterstock and what it would have been if each of those had been .27. Total difference was over $300. I think that's significant. I definitely have uses for that extra $300+ and would miss it if it was gone.
That's assuming you are doing over 3000 sales a month. How many people are actually doing that at SS? 100? 500? 1000? But, like I said, I had this argument before, and most people see it as making a big difference. So, I guess I'm the odd man out. ;D
I can't believe Lisa does just 3000 subs sales at SS. If that is true, SS loses appeal to me.
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^^^ "only" ?
That's over 1,000$ in subs alone, not many people do much better.
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I can't believe Lisa does just 3000 subs sales at SS. If that is true, SS loses appeal to me.
It seems insane to me. People talk about microstock being for everybody, but you really have to crank out the volume to be in that upper or mid-upper echelon. Once you get there, you aren't exactly a get rich quick story (or even a get rich at all story).
But, we have to protect this model from all the 25 cent invaders. ;)
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^^^ "only" ?
That's over 1,000$ in subs alone, not many people do much better.
3k downloads means at least 2k $
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Is 38 cents per download much different? Maybe they will make up for the difference by getting more buyers.
I keep reading this same comment over and over about how .27 vs. .38 doesn't make much difference. You're right, on one sale it doesn't. But microstock is supposed to be about volume.
I just calculated the difference for last month (Feb.) between what I earned in .38 subs on Shutterstock and what it would have been if each of those had been .27. Total difference was over $300. I think that's significant. I definitely have uses for that extra $300+ and would miss it if it was gone.
That's assuming you are doing over 3000 sales a month. How many people are actually doing that at SS? 100? 500? 1000? But, like I said, I had this argument before, and most people see it as making a big difference. So, I guess I'm the odd man out. ;D
I can't believe Lisa does just 3000 subs sales at SS. If that is true, SS loses appeal to me.
For whatever reason I believe Lisa's port has never done quite as well at SS as elsewhere. In the past (say a couple of years ago), on the monthly earnings reports, when most independents were reporting their SS contribution to be around 25%+ for Lisa it was more like 18% if I remember correctly. Of course when you do particularly well at one agency, especially if it is a a high income generator like IS, then that tends to suppress the % numbers for the other agencies anyway.
Over the years I've studied sales patterns quite a lot and it seems that most contributors sell disproportionately better or worse than their peers at one or two agencies. It's just the way it is. I guess different agencies may attract buyers with different needs and interests.
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^^^ "only" ?
That's over 1,000$ in subs alone, not many people do much better.
3k downloads means at least 2k $
Yes, because clear calculation that leads u to 1140$ is at least 2k.
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^^^ "only" ?
That's over 1,000$ in subs alone, not many people do much better.
3k downloads means at least 2k $
Yes, because clear calculation that leads u to 1140$ is at least 2k.
right but I was adding ods, els, sods
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^^^ "only" ?
That's over 1,000$ in subs alone, not many people do much better.
3k downloads means at least 2k $
Yes, because clear calculation that leads u to 1140$ is at least 2k.
right but I was adding ods, els, sods
Im not sure even with that someone doubles amount of subs sales only , at least Im not one of those ;D
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^^^ "only" ?
That's over 1,000$ in subs alone, not many people do much better.
3k downloads means at least 2k $
Yes, because clear calculation that leads u to 1140$ is at least 2k.
right but I was adding ods, els, sods
Im not sure even with that someone doubles amount of subs sales only , at least Im not one of those ;D
I am at 67 cents this month (1 EL, 2 x 5.7$ SOD) so I don't believe Lisa or other top contributor is doing below that
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My analysis of my Shutterstock portfolio suggests that a doubling of the subs revenue is a pretty safe bet (at least for a similar sort of portfolio). This graph shows the percentage of SS earnings each month from the different categories of downloads:
(http://www.backyardsilver.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SSPercentageDownloadType.png)
This was from my annual analysis of stock earnings: http://www.backyardsilver.com/2013/01/december-earnings-and-review-of-2012-for-stock-photography/ (http://www.backyardsilver.com/2013/01/december-earnings-and-review-of-2012-for-stock-photography/)
Steve
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I am at 67 cents this month (1 EL, 2 x 5.7$ SOD) so I don't believe Lisa or other top contributor is doing below that
And I'm at $0.79 per download!
Steve
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Everyone speaks about volume. It's not the true really, the parameters to be successful in microstock are IDEAS, QUANTITY, QUALITY and also a lot of LUCK! there is people with less than 1.000 images selling a lot more than people with over 20.000 images!!!
Now days EL are very rare while subs are so predominant and it's impossible to get decent money only with subs also if you have 100.000 image in your portfolio.
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Gostwyck is right that historically my port always did better at Istock than anywhere else. Which is why the dive at Istock has hit my overall earnings so dramatically. For me, SS has not picked up all the slack from Istock's losses. A lot of those sales have gone to TS at .28.
But SS has been my top earning site for about the past 6 months or so, if I remember correctly. And Steve's calculator looks about right to me. Roughly half my income there is from subs and the rest from OD, EL, etc. Total income varies wildly by month though.
@Michey, when I mentioned volume, I meant volume of SALES, not images.
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It seems insane to me. People talk about microstock being for everybody [...]
Does anyone actually still say that? Do any agencies even claim, in their public statements, that it still makes sense for small contributors?
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Hm yes I just chec Im also somwere aroud half subs and half all other income...
But I just saw a 75$ sale in single & other downloads that I missed to see last month...
Where does a 75$ sale come from ?
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Hm yes I just chec Im also somwere aroud half subs and half all other income...
But I just saw a 75$ sale in single & other downloads that I missed to see last month...
Where does a 75$ sale come from ?
you missed a 75$ sale? its sensitive use
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I just sent a note to support asking if they have an opt out for subscriptions, and if not to delete my portfolio. Having walked away from iStock over the Google fiasco and them refusing to let us control where and how our images are licensed it makes it much easier to blow off Bigstock if they insist on switching to the dark side.
And when I logged on to send the message, I see my balance had gone up this evening by three new subs sale. Woo yay :(
Perhaps we should start a betting pool on when that noxious subs royalty chart will go into effect at Shutterstock...
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I may be missing something, but I have not found any way to opt out of bridge. If they do not let us opt out of bridge and subs; I will have no choice but to send a message re the greed by closing my account.
My gut tells me they will be pushing large accounts toward BS.
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I received a reply from support this morning saying (1) no opt out for subs and (2) did I really want to remove my files but leave my account open as they don't normally do that. She'd have to check and see if that was possible and would I write to confirm that was what I wanted.
I explained (again; I had made it clear why I asked in the first message - that I want to clear the last 7 days of sales so they don't keep the balance) why and said that if there was another procedure for me getting paid in full all the money I was owed, I was happy to do it a different way.
We'll see. The funny thing is that I went through this same two-step in 2008 when I went exclusive at IS. First they said they couldn't do it, and then they were able to after I fussed about leaving 7 days worth of royalties on the table.
Is this really so hard to comprehend? It wasn't my idea to withhold royalties for a period of time...
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I still can't get over the disappointment that Jon Oringer has allowed this to happen. I thought he had seen the mistakes istock have made and was going down a different path. Now people are getting lower subs commissions than with Thinkstock, with no chance of getting anywhere near the $0.38 that's obtainable with SS.
I can't be bothered with leaving sites anymore. SS was the one site that gave me some hope that commissions weren't going to carry on getting cut by the old sites but it's obvious that was wishful thinking.
There's no incentive to carry on working hard with the big microstock sites. Hopefully there will be other options this year.
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I still can't get over the disappointment that Jon Oringer has allowed this to happen.
Isn't John Oringer the CEO of the company? He didn't allow this to happen he made the decision to make this happen.
Do you believe that CEOs actually make detailed business plans? He may have decided ultimately, but he most likely was not the one to build the plan. So the statement that he allowed this to happen is pretty accurate in my mind.
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There's no incentive to carry on working hard with the big microstock sites. Hopefully there will be other options this year.
Unfortunately it seems we are nearing that point.
SS stil pays me enough to maintain a flicker of interest, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time before we get the announcement - in perfect CorporateSpeak - of the need to "bring ShutterStock's commission structure in line with" BigStock and the rest of the bargain basement outlets. Accompanied by the wonderful news that all of us, even the small players, are now being sent over to BigStock, and how that will benefit us.
And that will be the end of it, for quite a while at least.
I've redirected my efforts to selling wall art on FAA. Please, don't laugh, it's cruel :-(. I realize my prospects are microscopic, but if I can make at least an occasional sale there, it will motivate me to do things in photography.
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I received a reply from support this morning saying (1) no opt out for subs and (2) did I really want to remove my files but leave my account open as they don't normally do that. She'd have to check and see if that was possible and would I write to confirm that was what I wanted.
I explained (again; I had made it clear why I asked in the first message - that I want to clear the last 7 days of sales so they don't keep the balance) why and said that if there was another procedure for me getting paid in full all the money I was owed, I was happy to do it a different way.
We'll see. The funny thing is that I went through this same two-step in 2008 when I went exclusive at IS. First they said they couldn't do it, and then they were able to after I fussed about leaving 7 days worth of royalties on the table.
Is this really so hard to comprehend? It wasn't my idea to withhold royalties for a period of time...
That's funny (in a sad way). Let us know how this turns out. It was something I was wondering as well. You'd think the question would come up a lot.
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I still can't get over the disappointment that Jon Oringer has allowed this to happen.
As was expected the rules of the game changed when SS decided to go public.
When I left Istock I decided not to lay all my eggs in the microstock basket.
I do RM, POD and Micro.
Last year I started with contract photography for companies - it's going well.
For me photography is more diversified now.
Microstock is not everything...
;)
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I still can't get over the disappointment that Jon Oringer has allowed this to happen.
As was expected the rules of the game changed when SS decided to go public.
When I left Istock I decided not to lay all my eggs in the microstock basket.
I do RM, POD and Micro.
Last year I started with contract photography for companies - it's going well.
For me photography is more diversified now.
Microstock is not everything...
;)
That's the right way.
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I sent them a message from the "delete your account" page. My account was totally gone within 14 hours without even a thank-you-very-much for that free 50 cents they kept. :o
Can't find the "delete your account page" ??? Where the page is hidden?
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I still can't get over the disappointment that Jon Oringer has allowed this to happen.
As was expected the rules of the game changed when SS decided to go public.
And this is just the start.
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This situation is almost identical to what happened when Getty bought StockXpert - they shut it down, replaced it with ThinkStock, and slashed royalties. SS didn't change Bigstock's name, but it's not the same agency anymore. I've got a bad feeling about this. :-\
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Perhaps its not all bad. Just got my first $120 SOD commission with SS. A few of them each month would take away the pain of the low subs with BigStock :)
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Bigstock support replied this afternoon that they would remove my portfolio but leave my account so I could "...request your earnings at your convenience." My convenience would be to request my earnings right now, but that wasn't being offered :)
My images may show up in searches for up to 48 hours but downloads won't be possible.
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I wrote to BS support and asked them to deactivate my portfolio without closing my account. I don't want to close my account altogether, in the hope that the situation at BS might improve in the future. I don't know if BS will give me that option though, I'm waiting to find out what they say. I'll remove my portfolio if they leave me not other choice. I'll let you know how it goes when I hear back from BS.
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Everyone who stays shouldn't wonder if SS applies the same commission scheme in the coming months.
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The problem with Bigstock is that you can not just delete some of your files at your will, every time you need to delete some files you have to write to them to do it. If i had that option i would just delete the files that are unique, and leave the rest with them. I didn't want to close my account, but that was the simplest way to go about it.
And, about the difference between 38c and 27c, it's 11c, looks like not much , right?, but i dont think you should look at the absolute value, it's not 11c less, it's 30% less. Any business that is about to lose 30% income would be panic, no matter what is your gross income, you get more sale you lose more, you get less sale you lose less, but it's 30% for everyone, it's very much significant, to my view.
And, the problem with the subs at BS is not only the 11c less, it's the structure that allow buyers to buy 5 images a day for 69$ a month (or something like that), that is a perfect replacement for the 50$ for 5OD at SS, because many people dont need 750 images and dont want to pay 250$ a month, but 69$ is just slightly more than 50$ and gives them 30 times more images. I am sure there are those who need, say 10-20 images from SS, which could cost them around 100$ -200$ would go to see if those images are available at BS, and if yes, they would get the 69$ subscription. Just see how much you would lose that way. I know i see my income going from SS to BS , but i lose 3 times more at SS than i earn at BS. And why, you ask, would they go to BS and not other agencies that offer same kind of subscription plan, the reason is, if people are comfortable doing business with SS, they would first go to BS that belongs to the same company.
just my 2 cents.
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I'm rather confused what 27 vs 38 means, how does this all effect me?
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I'm rather confused what 27 vs 38 means, how does this all effect me?
believe it isn't, if it was sure you would know, BTW this discussion is about the introducing of subscription at BigStock ;)
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And, about the difference between 38c and 27c, it's 11c, looks like not much , right?, but i dont think you should look at the absolute value, it's not 11c less, it's 30% less. Any business that is about to lose 30% income would be panic, no matter what is your gross income, you get more sale you lose more, you get less sale you lose less, but it's 30% for everyone, it's very much significant, to my view.
Actually, it a lot more because BS didn't previously sell anything for 38 cents. 50 cents was the lowest you could get before. So, every sub sale is probably cutting your profit in half (at the very least). That's a pleasant way of looking at it. :'(
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If it didn't make much difference, they wouldn't be doing it, would they?
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Everyone who stays shouldn't wonder if SS applies the same commission scheme in the coming months.
Leaving wont make any difference. The majority of the big microstock producers never seem to leave sites. They could make a difference, if they took collective action but they never seem to. So leaving will just mean they have less competition. I'm done with doing that.
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We have left. We don't compete with the big producers, do you?
As I said before, I think maybe they don't want the small producers, we are probably too expensive for them to maintain. Think about it, all those niche files, all need to be inspected, all cluttering up their data base, hardly ever selling. If they wanted us, they wouldn't have cut our money, would they?
So, in leaving, we've given them what they want.
The people who need the niche files will just have to buy them elsewhere. Everyone is happy ;)
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Everyone who stays shouldn't wonder if SS applies the same commission scheme in the coming months.
Leaving wont make any difference. The majority of the big microstock producers never seem to leave sites. They could make a difference, if they took collective action but they never seem to. So leaving will just mean they have less competition. I'm done with doing that.
And all this time I was thinking that you are one of the Big Microstock Producers. ;D
... and I agree with your philosophy; Why cut off your nose to spite your face? :-\
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I'm rather confused what 27 vs 38 means, how does this all effect me?
It is rather confusing because it's comparing SS sales for people on the top level to BS sales, where almost no one will ever reach 50,000 downloads in a 12 month period. BS used to pretty well sell at the lowest level, 50c downloads, often $1.00 downloads. There's a cut in that as well?
People who are just starting will get 25c on ss, 25c on BS. After $500 you get 33c vs 25c until you make $3,000 on SS, then it goes up to 36c until $10,000 and over that 38c. So the people who are saying 25c vs 38c must all be over $10,000 in lifetime earnings on SS? Otherwise it's just a math game. (and for some reason I don't know where they are getting the 27 cents? Are they assuming 200 DLs instead of the base number of 25c?)
The argument could just as well be 29c vs 38c? But roughly estimating, it's 10 cents a download less on BS than SS.
Also BS doesn't license as much as SS, so there's really not as much of a loss.
Example, if someone make,s $1,000 a month on SS, they probably make $75 a month on BS. It's a low site already. Potentially the BS subs will cut into the higher value commissions on SS. We don't know, but it could? Then the loss isn't just per download, it's also stealing sales from the better site, in favor of the lower paying site.
If someone only compares loss in commissions on BS to what they make on BS, it could be 1/3rd what they get now. That's bad enough. If it's siphoning off sales from SS, then they are losing 10c a download from their usual sub price on SS. (25% cut in case all the numbers are getting confusing)
And the next part is people suspecting that SS will decide to start some similar plan where instead of the promised return for people who have worked for eight years to reach that $10,000 level or 38c a download, we'll find some new download target like the 50,000 that BS pulled out of the air.
Personally I'm not in the bridge program, so I should be seeing subs. I haven't gotten one yet. I'm still getting 50c and $1 downloads, but I have a very small collection on BS. I stopped uploading there effective in 2011. If I had the bridge it would be nice.
Consider this, lets say that SS looked into the future, in 2010, after they bought BS, and said... we'll bridge all the large volume collections and sellers, after we have all the top photos ported over, in 2013 we'll add Subs. Smooth plan, right? They get the best and then chop the commissions. Not very contributor friendly. I don't think this was a case of chance. The bridge of the biggest collections, leading to subs was a carefully calculated plan.
I'm not going to defend the change, just pointing out that losing 10 cents a sale comparing SS sales to BS sales, where BS sales volume is much less than SS sales, is kind of deceptive for an argument.
But back to the other side, if BS subs start stealing SS download, then every sale is a loss of approximately 10 cents, and much less than people are getting now on BS. And the worse fears could be true, that SS will change the lifetime levels that people have earned and make them annual. Which would be the worst outcome of all this fiddling with levels and commissions.
SS now based on lifetime earnings, not annual sales:
$0 - $500 $0.25
$500 - $3,000 $0.33
$3,000 - $10,000 $0.36
$10,000 + $0.38
(http://s5.postimage.org/hr8tuvuxz/bigstock_rc_levels.jpg)
There's your 38c - lifetime over $10,000 on SS. There's your vs 27 cents, 200 DLs on BS in the past 12 months. Hope that helped.
It's not the same for everyone.
(http://s5.postimage.org/5eaovy7af/dr_evil_2013_50_K_downloads.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Yeah Really? It's too high! (http://postimage.org/)
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A fair analysis, Race. You ask why we assume a subscription rate of .27 at BigStock? I'd say that's a fair assumption; anyone with more than 200 downloads in a year (less than 1 download every day and a half) but fewer than a thousand (an average of three downloads a day) will be at .27. That's where I am, and I suspect that's where most of us are.
You say you haven't seen a subscription download on BigStock. You're lucky. I've seen a carpload of them. My last 30 days I've had almost as many subscription sales as regular sales. Yeah, the total's pretty small, and my revenues aren't much different than the past couple of months, so maybe I'm not losing anything. Still, it's not an improvement, and that's a fact.
And of course there's the valid concern that Shutterstock management will decide to reduce the royalties there too. And maybe volumes will increase and my revenues won't decline. And maybe they will, which would suck.
So there's the real concern about cheaper downloads, and the potential for more sweeping changes. And there's the fact that the thresholds BigStock chose are impossible for all but a very few.
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Yes, we agree. I was just trying to answer a one liner about 27c vs 38c, that has many implications and assumptions involved.
Doesn't matter much, Rough numbers, people will make 10 cents less a download. The sales on SS are threatened to be cannibalized for moving the same buyers to BS. (and we get less) Sales on BS appear to being migrating from packages to Subs. And SS could drop the bomb on lifetime sales and institute this negative gain annual rank.
There is one potential gain that could be made for more sales from new buyers on BS, but I don't know why the same new buyers wouldn't just go to SS where there are more choices for the same price? Single image needs and package buyers shouldn't change at all, because they don't need a subscription plan and won't use it.
ps I don't get one download a day on BS. Where's that survey? ??? 62% get under 200 DLs a year on BS. (what $75 - $100 ?) Almost makes it a Who Cares question? And 8% get under 1000 DLs a year. $270 in subs - more in the old sales plan. Changing to subs is hardly worth the worry anymore. Probably why people aren't concerned about dropping BS. 90% of the people who answered, would hardly care if BS closed.
Under 200
55 (61.8%)
200 - 999
24 (27%)
1,000 - 1,999
7 (7.9%)
2,000 - 9,999
2 (2.2%)
10,000 - 19,999
0 (0%)
20,000 - 49,999
0 (0%)
50,000 or over
1 (1.1%)
A fair analysis, Race. You ask why we assume a subscription rate of .27 at BigStock? I'd say that's a fair assumption; anyone with more than 200 downloads in a year (less than 1 download every day and a half) but fewer than a thousand (an average of three downloads a day) will be at .27. That's where I am, and I suspect that's where most of us are.
You say you haven't seen a subscription download on BigStock. You're lucky. I've seen a carpload of them. My last 30 days I've had almost as many subscription sales as regular sales. Yeah, the total's pretty small, and my revenues aren't much different than the past couple of months, so maybe I'm not losing anything. Still, it's not an improvement, and that's a fact.
And of course there's the valid concern that Shutterstock management will decide to reduce the royalties there too. And maybe volumes will increase and my revenues won't decline. And maybe they will, which would suck.
So there's the real concern about cheaper downloads, and the potential for more sweeping changes. And there's the fact that the thresholds BigStock chose are impossible for all but a very few.
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I wrote to BS support and asked them to deactivate my portfolio without closing my account. I don't want to close my account altogether, in the hope that the situation at BS might improve in the future. I don't know if BS will give me that option though, I'm waiting to find out what they say. I'll remove my portfolio if they leave me not other choice. I'll let you know how it goes when I hear back from BS.
Be interested to hear how you get on, they didn't give me that option unfortunately, so I closed my account.
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I removed my work from 123_ because of this and Canoworms too. Why I stay with SS is beyond me, I suppose because my video does ok there. Still my fave is DT, best sales for me but am continually distressed by the growing subscription sales. Boys and girls of the jury, this industry is a losing proposition, get used to it. BS is BS. Closing note....38¢ beats 27¢ every time.
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Boys and girls of the jury, this industry is a losing proposition, get used to it. BS is BS. Closing note....38¢ beats 27¢ every time.
I don't think that's even pessimism, just realism. Hoping something turns this around, but not seeing what it could be. The bottom lines is that these agencies have steadily reduced the perceived value of imagery. They think they'll make their money in fees for search/subscription/API 'services' rather than commission-based sales of a 'product'.
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Am I the only one who feels this way, or is it unfreakin acceptable for them not to split sales into subs and standard? Not to have a section where you can see what you will be earning on subs that month? Do I have to manually count up my sales from the last 12 months every time the calendar turns to confirm they are paying the correct amount?
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I wrote to BS support and asked them to deactivate my portfolio without closing my account. I don't want to close my account altogether, in the hope that the situation at BS might improve in the future. I don't know if BS will give me that option though, I'm waiting to find out what they say. I'll remove my portfolio if they leave me not other choice. I'll let you know how it goes when I hear back from BS.
Be interested to hear how you get on, they didn't give me that option unfortunately, so I closed my account.
I did talk to them at BS and asked if there was an option to deactivate your portfolio while leaving your account open, and they said unfortunately no. I told them that I did not want 27¢ subs taking away from the 38¢ subs I get at SS. I told them that like many contributors I had grown cynical regarding agency decisions that in most cases benefit the agencies to the detriment of contributors. They said (I'm paraphrasing here and this is from memory) my cynicism was understandable but urged me to give the new subs program a chance - they said that BS and SS serve different markets, and the subs at BS shouldn't have any effect on my earnings at SS. In spite of my skepticism, I told them I'd stick around and see how the program unfolds before making any decisions. Unlike the typical 'don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out' attitude that many agencies have, they did seem to genuinely care about my concerns and didn't want me to leave. I'm going to stick around for awhile and see how it goes. Earnings this month are OK, but that includes an EL, so it's hard to make a judgement.
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Sure they sell to different markets - until now. What happens as buyers figure out they can get the same photos cheaper under the new "brand"?
Lots of big names in clothing, shoes etc have bargain "outlet" stores. They're typically located about 50 miles outside of the big city, so they don't compete with the full line stores. But on the internet, SS and BS are right next door.
SS and BS are 2 faces of the same company. They're starting down the road of reducing payments to contributors and 'spinning' it as another brand and a different market.
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Thanks Allsa!
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Sure they sell to different markets - until now. What happens as buyers figure out they can get the same photos cheaper under the new "brand"?
Lots of big names in clothing, shoes etc have bargain "outlet" stores. They're typically located about 50 miles outside of the big city, so they don't compete with the full line stores. But on the internet, SS and BS are right next door.
SS and BS are 2 faces of the same company. They're starting down the road of reducing payments to contributors and 'spinning' it as another brand and a different market.
Well stated.
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We've heard the "different markets" spin from pretty much every agency at this point. Especially when it comes to introducing subscriptions. Regardless of whether the admins at Bigstock believe it, I think they're wrong - just as iStock was wrong, Dreamstime, Veer...
The only thing that will assist contributors is growing the market by bringing in new buyers - Shutterstock stealing customers from Getty Images is great for those of us who aren't with Getty, but even better is a new iteration of what happened when iStock started. Companies that didn't buy stock before, or only bought in small quantities, buying images or significantly upping the volume of their purchases.
Having subscriptions at Bigstock isn't introducing anything new - it's just cheaper by a bit than Shutterstock. All it can do is cannibalize sales from somewhere else - if not SS then one of the other microstock agencies. Given the lowball royalties, there is no way this can be good for contributors (it's neutral for those in Bridge to Bigstock whose acquiescence for 6 months has been purchased by giving them the 38 cents per download they currently earn).
The only winner in this move is SS as they get to pocket more of each sale from everyone except the Bridge folks.
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So I get .38 at shutterstock and .27 at Bigstock. I'd remove my port from Bigstock if someone could prove to me that I'm losing Shutterstock downloads over this. There's just no way to know.
I could spike my Bigstock port, but I believe all that would mean is that someone who would have bought my image on Bigstock will just buy someone else's image on Bigstock. They won't magically see my images aren't on Bigstock anymore and go buy it off Shutterstock instead.
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I just got a 25 cent sub. Just maybe this is a waking up and sales will start (well i can hope - can't )?
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when does the switch begin?
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yes, I get .27 downloads but my RPD is $.69 thus out of 19 MS Companies that I submit to they come in at 5th place. Not too bad at all! ;)
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when does the switch begin?
I think it is June