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Author Topic: Is that all that Canon has got?  (Read 15071 times)

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« on: February 22, 2007, 05:36 »
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What . have they been doing the last 6 months.

One camera, one lens (which replaces a lens that is already extremely high rated with no new features) and a new flash.

Maybe everything else is so good it cant be improved  ;D ???


« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2007, 06:31 »
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Here's a quote that I think sums up the 1DIII quite well:

"The EOS 1D Mark III isn't just for sports anymore. It's a more universal camera for the vast majority of pro photographers. With the multiple improvements in the new camera, photographers will no longer need to trade off resolution, image quality, and speed against each other. The 1D Mark III now has enough of all three to satisfy a huge slice of the market in a single camera body."

That is the first Canon camera ever that has made me consider changing from Fuji/Nikon. Apart from ergonomics, where Nikon still excels, this seems to be the best all purpose DSLR ever.

« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2007, 06:33 »
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That is the first Canon camera ever that has made me consider changing from Fuji/Nikon. Apart from ergonomics, where Nikon still excels, this seems to be the best all purpose DSLR ever.

And all that for ONLY $4,000!

« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2007, 06:37 »
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photographers will no longer need to trade off resolution, image quality, and speed against each other.
Are they saying that 10mp is enough?  isn't the 5D 12mp?  therefore aren't you trading off the 12mp of the 5D for the speed of the 1D.  I thought they were going to bring out a 22mp one as well.  

Agree this looks like a well rounded camera and very tempting.  I just want it in a smaller lighter body since my main use is travel.

« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2007, 06:39 »
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That is the first Canon camera ever that has made me consider changing from Fuji/Nikon. Apart from ergonomics, where Nikon still excels, this seems to be the best all purpose DSLR ever.

And all that for ONLY $4,000!

Ummm... not really. Then I would need the 24mm f/1.4, the 24mm TS, the 50mm f/1.2, the 85mm f/1.2, the 135mm f/2.0, a couple of zooms, black paint for those awful, white telephoto lenses...

« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2007, 06:42 »
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If canon now has 4 stop IS technology (in there 70-200 f4L IS), why arn't they rolling this out across the board.

Note: I want the 100-400 L so was hoping they would upgrade the IS to 4 stop (from 2) and upgrade the weather proofing (to lose its name "the dust pump").

« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2007, 06:45 »
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photographers will no longer need to trade off resolution, image quality, and speed against each other.
Are they saying that 10mp is enough?  isn't the 5D 12mp?  therefore aren't you trading off the 12mp of the 5D for the speed of the 1D.  I thought they were going to bring out a 22mp one as well. 

Agree this looks like a well rounded camera and very tempting.  I just want it in a smaller lighter body since my main use is travel.

The difference between 10 and 12MP is totally unimportant. Nobody can see the difference anyway, even at very large formats. What makes the 1DIII so interesting isn't only the speed, but the complete feature set, the image quality (also at high ISO), the weather sealing etc. The 5D is basically an amateur camera with a big sensor. It's a nice camera, but for pro use, it's not nearly in the same class.

And for travelling, I have the Olympus E-1. Compact, solid, weather sealed body and lenses, excellent image quality and very good ergonomics (much better than Canon in that respect).

« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2007, 06:47 »
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Are they saying that 10mp is enough?  isn't the 5D 12mp?  therefore aren't you trading off the 12mp of the 5D for the speed of the 1D.  I thought they were going to bring out a 22mp one as well. 

This looks to be a pure sports photography camera.  It shoots 10 fps @ 10 MP!  Wow!  Pro sports photographers are probably drooling over this one.

« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2007, 06:47 »
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If canon now has 4 stop IS technology (in there 70-200 f4L IS), why arn't they rolling this out across the board.

Note: I want the 100-400 L so was hoping they would upgrade the IS to 4 stop (from 2) and upgrade the weather proofing (to lose its name "the dust pump").

I agree about the weather sealing. While Canon as well as Nikon make good, weather sealed bodies, it's very hard to get a clear statement with regards to weather sealed lenses. Olympus made that very clear from the start of the 4/3 system, and now Pentax has done the same with some of their lenses.

« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 06:50 »
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Are they saying that 10mp is enough?  isn't the 5D 12mp?  therefore aren't you trading off the 12mp of the 5D for the speed of the 1D.  I thought they were going to bring out a 22mp one as well. 

This looks to be a pure sports photography camera.  It shoots 10 fps @ 10 MP!  Wow!  Pro sports photographers are probably drooling over this one.

The nice thing is that the very complete feature set makes it a good all round camera as well (read my post above). We may be getting back to the "old" days, when each manufacturer had one top body that solved most photographic challenges, unless you needed some particular feature. That would be a very positive development in my eyes.

« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 06:52 »
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The difference between 10 and 12MP is totally unimportant.
is the difference between 8mp and 10mp also unimportant?  If so, what didn't the have before: speed, quality or resolution?

Quote
And for travelling, I have the Olympus E-1. Compact, solid, weather sealed body and lenses, excellent image quality and very good ergonomics (much better than Canon in that respect).
I dont think this was out when I "invested" in canon.

« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2007, 06:54 »
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I agree about the weather sealing. While Canon as well as Nikon make good, weather sealed bodies,
Unfortunately only in Canons 1D series.  As Ametures have to stay inside when it rains.

one up for the 4/3 guys I guess.

« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2007, 06:58 »
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I agree about the weather sealing. While Canon as well as Nikon make good, weather sealed bodies,
Unfortunately only in Canons 1D series.  As Ametures have to stay inside when it rains.

one up for the 4/3 guys I guess.

I bought one of the last E-1's here in Thailand when it went on sale, and paid only $700 for it, and an additional $700 for the excellent 11-22mm f/2.8-3.5 lens. It follows me everywhere. It's such a nice camera. Only 5MP, but those are very nice pixels   ;D

eendicott

« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2007, 08:55 »
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I received my 1Ds Mark II in the mail yesterday.  Then saw the announcement on the 1D Mark III this morning. 

I haven't had much of a chance to play with the new 1Ds Mark II but I'll tell you with the two images I took last night of stuff around the house, I can tell you that the 1D Mark III is an absolute STEAL at $4,000 USD.

I'm going from a 20d and a 30d.  I wasn't 100% happy with the 20d (going from film to the 20d) and the 30d is much better.  Getting the new camera, I realized the 20d is crap in comparison.  The 30d will be my backup until I can get the Mark III.

From the announcement on the Mark III, you are getting TWO digic III processors (compare it to a Pentium computer with dual core processors) and 10 shots per second up to 110 shots in JPG.  That's fast for sports yes, but here are some other things I've learned (and am still learning because it's like learning how to use a computer for the first time)...

The Mark III meters light in 63 different places.  That's very important for control over exposure.  On the Mark II last night, I learned that I can select up to eight spots to meter simultaneously when composing a shot.  If the Mark III has a similar feature, it isn't limited to just sports, but also still life, nature, and wildlife as well.

I suspect the speed of the camera will also gain a lot of popularity amongst bird photographers.  Have you ever met one?  I work with one.  This guy has no problem going down to New Mexico with a 600mm, a 500mm, a 400mm, a 100-400, as well as some other smaller L lenses to shoot birds.  At 10 fps set at AI Servo, he can fire away like a machine gun bearing hunter and be as content as can be.  Until know, he was only able to shoot 8 fps.

Another thing about this new camera - 6400 ISO.  That is virtually non-existent in digital.  Not only will that be popular with birders and astronomers but indoor sports photographers struggling to find ways to use flash will no longer need it.  Testing will soon show what quality comes out.

It isn't just about megapixel size.  This new camera at $4,000 is going to be a heck of a deal.

...and yes, I'm still happy with my new purchase  :)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 09:51 by eendicott »

Greg Boiarsky

« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2007, 09:59 »
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Does anyone here think that the live preview function will be useful?

« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2007, 10:03 »
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Does anyone here think that the live preview function will be useful?

For macro, absolutely. I haven't checked if it's possible to zoom in for focus adjustments, but that would be nice. For PJ's it's probably also useful in crowds when they have to hold the camera high, not being able to use the viewfinder.

eendicott

« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2007, 10:28 »
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I was just discussing this with my "birder" friend at work.  ;D

He recently purchased a 45 degree adapter for his camera so he could take some pictures of Water Skippers.  He isn't completely happy and indicated this would be a huge improvement.  I could have used it when I composed these shots as I was laying directly on the ground...




As posted above, in macro situations it would be awesome.  One feature the 1D system has is a shutter for the view finder to use when you are using mirror lockup.  The 20d and 30d come with a little insert on the camera strap you can put in to block light.  In a macro, if you can use shutter lock, then close the shutter on the view finder, you can compose the scene through the preview function without allowing excess light into the sensor.  You can also preview the depth of field in the image at the same time.  Very cool stuff.

« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2007, 10:32 »
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Does anyone here think that the live preview function will be useful?
For sports phototags that have a remote set up (ie. behind the goal) it will also help them set up (rather than take photo and check) (At the world cup, they have about 20 cameras on tiny 5 inch tripods, all remote controlled.

Also for Jornos taking above the head shots.

For Macro as noted. Plus tripod shots where view finder isn't accessable.

I think you can zoom in on the live preview.

Greg Boiarsky

« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2007, 11:18 »
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This is one sweet body.  I looked at the samples page and I'm blown away.  Most samples pages put up pretty crappy photos, but these really show the camera's capabilities.  Take a look at the wedding images--what dynamic range!

Why can't I win the lottery when these things hit the market?  As my 7-year-old always says:  It's not faaaiiiirrrrr!

« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2007, 16:58 »
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no full size sensor, no sense in an upgrade

« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2007, 17:58 »
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no full size sensor, no sense in an upgrade

Ummmm.... what does the size of the sensor have to do with it?

« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2007, 18:07 »
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no full size sensor, no sense in an upgrade

Maybe not for you (or me), but I'm sure that plenty of people will be buying the camera.  Canon is the largest camera manufacturer in the world for a reason (they know what people want).

« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2007, 19:55 »
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no full size sensor, no sense in an upgrade

Ummmm.... what does the size of the sensor have to do with it?

lens conversion. costs heaps to get wide angles

« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2007, 00:07 »
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The next camera I buy will be a next generation model: a dSLR with no mirror, where image preview is totally digital. Guess it can't be called a dSLR then ...

Greg Boiarsky

« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2007, 01:23 »
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And exactly why would you do away with the mirror entirely?  While I have been convinced that the image preview is useful for macros and odd/awkward angles, I will never be convinced that a 230,000 or so pixel preview will be as useful as a direct image.  Think about everything that becomes less precise or even non-fucntional if you replace the mirror with an LCD panel:  true depth of field preview (yes, DOF preview is enabled in Live View, but my guess is that it's hard to use and see), focus checking, color accuracy, among other things.

The LCD live preview is a nice tool, but it is in no way a replacement for a true, high-quality, reflected image.  Not at the moment, anyway.  And, not until we get megapixel quality LCD panels.

Just my 2 cents worth.

The next camera I buy will be a next generation model: a dSLR with no mirror, where image preview is totally digital. Guess it can't be called a dSLR then ...

« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2007, 04:42 »
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no full size sensor, no sense in an upgrade

Ummmm.... what does the size of the sensor have to do with it?

lens conversion. costs heaps to get wide angles

Valid point. I have that problem for concerts (on stage). I need a fast wide-angle, and the only combo that will cut it is a 5D or 1Ds with 24mm f/1.4. Very frustrating.

So what I should do is buy a 5D, a 1Diii and lenses for a few thousand dollars, plus some black paint for the long lenses  ;D

« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2007, 04:48 »
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no full size sensor, no sense in an upgrade

Ummmm.... what does the size of the sensor have to do with it?

lens conversion. costs heaps to get wide angles

Lens conversion - makes long lens longer  ;D ;D

« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2007, 15:42 »
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If canon now has 4 stop IS technology (in there 70-200 f4L IS), why arn't they rolling this out across the board.

Note: I want the 100-400 L so was hoping they would upgrade the IS to 4 stop (from 2) and upgrade the weather proofing (to lose its name "the dust pump").

I agree about the weather sealing. While Canon as well as Nikon make good, weather sealed bodies, it's very hard to get a clear statement with regards to weather sealed lenses. Olympus made that very clear from the start of the 4/3 system, and now Pentax has done the same with some of their lenses.

If the lense has a rubber ring around the mount it's weather sealed, the exception is the 17-40 f4.0L it has the rubber seal but needs a filter to seal it properly.

I believe they replaced the 16-35 because the image quality wasn't any better than the 17-40 f4.0, all you were paying for was the speed, this new one should move the game on.

« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2007, 15:53 »
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no full size sensor, no sense in an upgrade

You would have a large number of very pissed off sports photographers if that ever happened, remember this is primarily aimed at sports and pj's they like the crop factor.

« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2007, 18:13 »
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If the lense has a rubber ring around the mount it's weather sealed, the exception is the 17-40 f4.0L it has the rubber seal but needs a filter to seal it properly.
But apparently the push-pull zoom on the 100-400 sucks in air even though weather proof. The 28-300 is meant to have been an upgrade (might have this wrong).

In the end though, I use a 20D which isn't and after thinking about it for the past 3 or 4 days, I cant justify a 1D.

« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2007, 18:20 »
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where did you hear that the 100-400 sucks in air?  I thought that is exactly what it DIDN'T do?

« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2007, 04:30 »
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where did you hear that the 100-400 sucks in air?  I thought that is exactly what it DIDN'T do?
It is know as being a "dust pump" but in a quick look at DP review, I haven't found a thread solely on this.

From what I read, it appears to be something people warn about but no one actually experences.  Not sure if this link will work but it is also referred to as the dust trumbone.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1029&message=19486459&q=100+400+dust+pump&qf=m

« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2007, 10:06 »
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Considering the marketing wars and the product competition, I think Canon was smart to only release a limited number of new products.  Don't see anything from Nikon or the like that can compete with the new body.. so for the time being they're going to dominate until the competitors can release something formidable, and when that time rolls around you can bet that Canon's going to have other new releases. 

Right now I'd say they're on top. 

« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2007, 12:16 »
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i'm still hoping they have a 1ds mark III in their back pockets ready for the upcoming pma

« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2007, 04:20 »
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i'm still hoping they have a 1ds mark III in their back pockets ready for the upcoming pma

They don't, and here's why: for most pro photographers, the 1D3 has everything needed, including megapixels. I did a test, and upsized an 1D3 file to 70x100cm, 300dpi, and it works fine. Lots of detail. In many ways, this camera is a digital F5, the camera that could do anything you threw at it, although from another manufacturer.

If they are going to develop the 1Ds further, I suspect they have to move into the medium format territory. That means higher prices, new lenses, and possibly another body. There are speculations around a new lens mount, but I guess they'll try to stick with the existing one if they can. There were lots of unhappy photographers the last time they changed.

What we will probably see in the not too distant future, is an upgraded 5D, with the same amount of megapixels as the current 1Ds, and a few more features. The introduction of the 5D probably hurt the 1Ds sales a lot, since there isn't much difference in image quality, so it make sense to develop the more successful of the two.

If I'm right, they will end up with one reasonably priced, high resolution camera for studio and light use (5D plus), one heavy duty work horse (1D3) and one cutting edge, state of the art, very expensive Hasselblad competitor that most of us can only dream about.

All pure speculation of course, but there are clearly changes on the way.

« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2007, 05:33 »
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I still expect them to take on the medium formats in a 35mm camera.  The rumour was a 22mp sensor which would do it.

« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2007, 15:24 »
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Just image a weather sealed, fast focusing (eos based) canon MF with the functionality of a 35mm camera it would slaughter all the existing MF systems, this is canons big year I don't believe this current release is all they'll have for us.

Greg Boiarsky

« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2007, 16:41 »
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Have you people seen sample images from tests of preproduction 1D MKIII cameras?  I'm truly impressed.  Images shot at ISO 1600 are better than ISO 400 images from my 10D.  That's saying something.  And, images shot at ISO 3200 are usable.

What a camera.

« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2007, 20:00 »
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Have you people seen sample images from tests of preproduction 1D MKIII cameras?  I'm truly impressed.  Images shot at ISO 1600 are better than ISO 400 images from my 10D.  That's saying something.  And, images shot at ISO 3200 are usable.

What a camera.

Even the ISO 6400 shots seem to be usable. Yes, this is some camera. Now, where did I hide that bank-book   ???

« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2007, 20:05 »
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I still expect them to take on the medium formats in a 35mm camera.  The rumour was a 22mp sensor which would do it.

They will probably do that. While the 1D3 and the 5D (or the 5D2?) are taking over much of the traditional 1Ds sales, a new 1Ds will have to compete with MF cameras anyway. That will probably mean new lenses and a lot of other stuff. Maybe even a different sensor size again, not necessarily much bigger, but a 4:3 instead of a 3:2 format. A changed format can even be done without new lenses, at least with regards to most of them.

Interesting times this   8)


 

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