Author Topic: Looking for a Good Point & Shoot (Read 15414 times)

GeoPappas · « **on:** May 20, 2007, 16:57 »

My wife is looking for a camera that she can carry in her pocketbook.

We already own a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5 (5 MP, 12x optical zoom, IS), but the camera is a little bulky (because of the large zoom range).

So now we are looking for a camera that is thinner. But I also would like a camera that takes quality images.

Are there any P&S (point & shoot) cameras that use a larger sensor than the normal 1/1.8" or 1/2.5" sensors? I am hoping to find a P&S camera that uses a large sensor that can give quality images. Hopefully a sensor that is more along the lines of a low-end DSLR (e.g., an APS-C size sensor).

ptlee · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2007, 00:57 »

Sounds like you want a Fujifilm F31

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf31fd/

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/compactcamerahighiso/

cheers.

CJPhoto · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2007, 09:24 »

I think only DSLR and the sony R1 use the larger sensor (Their is a new Sigma coming out and may the leica rangefinder but these will be expensive).

Other than than, read the article you got that sensor size pic from on DPreview and it says the Fuji is probably the best.

steve-oh · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2007, 10:34 »

Heh. When I saw the title, I immediately thought of the Panasonic Lumix. One of our content directors own one of these. What an awesome camera.

Let us know what you go with.

GeoPappas · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2007, 11:21 »

I have only been able to find about a dozen digital cameras with a 1/1.8" - 1/1.6" sensor. I eliminated some of them because they did not include IS (image stabilization) which I deem critical for using indoors under low light. It seems that there are only a few non-DSLR cameras that offer a sensor that is significantly larger than 1/1.8". But they are extremely expensive (> $1000).

So (at this point) I have settled on buying a camera with a 1/1.8" sensor. I am currently looking at the Canon Powershot G7. It has IS and the reviews seem very good.

Quote from: ptlee on May 21, 2007, 00:57

Sounds like you want a Fujifilm F31

Thanks for the reply. I will definitely take a look at it. The Fujifilm Finepix F31fd does have a large sensor (at 1/1.7") and it does come Highly Recommended by dpreview.com, but unfortunately it does not have IS (which I believe is a must-have for a P&S camera).

epixx · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2007, 19:41 »

An important question is if you need an optical viewfinder or not. Not many of the small ones have one, the excellent Fuji F31 being one of those. Canon G7 and A640 are both good, and I recently tried the Nikon P5000 which impressed me a lot. Almost DSLR ergonomics in a pocket sized camera (much smaller than the Canons). The review of the Nikon was somewhat mediocre at dpreview, but if you can live with the slow focus, it's absolutely something to consider. It also has VR (IS in Canon-speak) and a hot-shoe.

digiology · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2007, 14:31 »

Looks like I am in the market for a new p&s. Kids dropped my old Olympus C4040 and the lens is jammed. Already had it fixed once a few years back for the same problem (kids dropped it again) but I no longer think its worth the $150 it will cost to fix it.

Anyways - this thread already has some excellent suggestions but I am curious. Geopappas - what did you end up going with?

GeoPappas · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2007, 15:26 »

Quote from: digiology on October 22, 2007, 14:31

what did you end up going with?

As of this point, I haven't purchased anything yet. None of the cameras really blew me away.

Here is the short list that I am still looking at:

Canon G9
Canon G7
Nikon P5000
Nikon P5100
Nikon P3
Nikon P4
Panasonic LX2
Sony DSCW200
Pentax A10

One camera that has caught my eye is the Sigma DP1, but it will probably be highly priced when it debuts.

leaf · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2007, 15:40 »

this camera gets my attention quite well. If i were to buy a compact i think i would pick it - if my budget was high enough.

edit: you beat me to posting.

well i guess we agree on the canon G series then

If you end up buying online, and going through amazon - consider "supporting your habit" and going through the store link on this site

Bateleur · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2007, 16:57 »

Quote from: epixx on May 21, 2007, 19:41

An important question is if you need an optical viewfinder or not.

If you don't have an optical viewfinder you're going to have problems in bright light. Some of those screens can be pretty difficult to see in full sunlight.

digiology · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2007, 17:02 »

Quote from: GeoPappas on October 22, 2007, 15:26

Here is the short list that I am still looking at:

Canon G9
Canon G7
Nikon P5000
Nikon P5100
Nikon P3
Nikon P4
Panasonic LX2
Sony DSCW200
Pentax A10

One camera that has caught my eye is the Sigma DP1, but it will probably be highly priced when it debuts.

Wow! Thats your short list?

Do all of these have IS/VR? That is important to me also. Thanks and keep us posted.

Leaf - I would love to click an amazon link and support the site...but I do not see one. Do I need to log out?

edit - OK, DUH! I just noticed the "store" link in the menu

GeoPappas · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2007, 18:21 »

Quote from: digiology on October 22, 2007, 17:02

Quote from: GeoPappas on October 22, 2007, 15:26
Here is the short list that I am still looking at:

Canon G9
Canon G7
Nikon P5000
Nikon P5100
Nikon P3
Nikon P4
Panasonic LX2
Sony DSCW200
Pentax A10

One camera that has caught my eye is the Sigma DP1, but it will probably be highly priced when it debuts.

Wow! Thats your short list? Do all of these have IS/VR? That is important to me also. Thanks and keep us posted.

Leaf - I would love to click an amazon link and support the site...but I do not see one. Do I need to log out?

edit - OK, DUH! I just noticed the "store" link in the menu

Yes, all have IS. That was a part of my requirements. My other requirements were that the sensor be larger than 1/2.5" (which the majority of cameras have), that optical zoom be at least 3x, that it not cost as much as an dSLR, and that the camera be relatively thin (< 2"). The last requirement was from my wife (in order to fit the camera into her purse/pocketbook).

cameraB · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2007, 20:19 »

I would vouch for the Canon point/shoots with the Digic III sensor - in the current world it produces a very nice highly portable image; good auto exposure, good color, IS. Noisy at lower light levels, yes. I almost always turn flash off, I'd usually rather shoot at 1/15 sec than use the on camera flash.

We've used and upgraded about 6 Canon Elphs at home for family stuff for the past several years. They're so small that they are easy to always have along, as opposed to something a little bigger that a little more often gets left behind because of that.

The SD 850 or 870 is a very nice little camera. I wouldn't try to shoot MS with it, although I do have a few accepted MS images from the 800 or 850.

The common complaint, rightly so, is that Canon could easily add better manual controls (shutter / aperture) to this but so far they have chosen not to.

A bit bigger and the G7 or G9 would offer the same sensor, better lense, and better manual controls.

sharpshot · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2007, 02:29 »

I am tempted by the G9. Might get one after Christmas, when the price should be lower than it is now. There will probably be something better out by then though

leaf · « **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2007, 03:42 »

Quote from: cameraB on October 22, 2007, 20:19

A bit bigger and the G7 or G9 would offer the same sensor, better lense, and better manual controls.

and a hot shoe for those times you want to put an 550ex on the camera

rene · « **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2007, 04:27 »

I'm looking for good P&S too. I'd like to have always a camera with me and DSLR is too heavy.
Maybe Canon Tx1 can be a good choice ? It seems that you can even make stock video with this one.

grp_photo · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2007, 05:27 »

Quote from: leaf on October 23, 2007, 03:42

Quote from: cameraB on October 22, 2007, 20:19

A bit bigger and the G7 or G9 would offer the same sensor, better lense, and better manual controls.

and a hot shoe for those times you want to put an 550ex on the camera

Really that is complete nonsense in real life! I have the SonyV1 and the SonyV3 both with hot shoe and the dedicated flash. I you used it once with such a flash you will never do it again the handling of such a small camera body with such a huge flash is totally awkward. Also why buying such a small camera if you are going such a huge flash with it the advantage of the small carry around unit is simply gone. If you wanna use such a flash better take your DSLR with a small lens (like a kit lens or so). It would be much better if the would have spent the money for swivel mechanic for the Display such as they did in the 650IS.

That said and back to topic i would also recommend the Fuji F31fd much cheaper and still the best sensor technology for compacts.
The Canon-G serie is way overpriced.

GeoPappas · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2007, 06:02 »

Quote from: cameraB on October 22, 2007, 20:19

That said and back to topic i would also recommend the Fuji F31fd much cheaper and still the best sensor technology for compacts.
The Canon-G serie is way overpriced.

I have heard a lot of good things about the Fuji F31fd, but unfortunately it doesn't have IS. The new Fuji F50 fd does have IS, so I will need to add it to my short list.

GeoPappas · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2007, 06:18 »

Quote from: rene on October 23, 2007, 04:27

Maybe Canon Tx1 can be a good choice ? It seems that you can even make stock video with this one.

The Canon Tx1 is a bit pricey (> $450), has a small LCD (1.8"), is only 7 MP, and has a small sensor (1/2.5").

At ISO 80 and 100, the shots look pretty good, but if you look at anything at ISO 400 and above, the grain gets pretty bad.

Check out this ISO 400 image (warning large file):

http://dpreview-img.fotki.com/gallery/canontx1_samples/originals/img_3073.jpg

digiology · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2007, 11:19 »

Quote from: GeoPappas on October 23, 2007, 06:02

The new Fuji F50 fd does have IS, so I will need to add it to my short list.

Wow! The Fuji F50 is over $200 cheaper than the Canon G9. Why such a big price difference?

gbcimages · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2007, 11:26 »

Canon A640 10 MEG

GeoPappas · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2007, 12:23 »

Quote from: gbcimages on October 23, 2007, 11:26

Canon A640 10 MEG

The 640 was announced over a year ago, and is slightly older technology. As such, it does not offer IS (which is one of my requirements).

Thanks anyhow...

digiology · « **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2007, 16:02 »

GeoPappas - Well I see now why you have not rushed out and bought one yet. I just looked at image samples of the cameras in your short list (plus a few more) and nothing impressed me either. Even though the camera will be for my husband and not for any stock (and I know I should not be comparing them to a SLR) I still have a hard time getting past the harsh noise most of these models produce. It seems anything past ISO100 and the image really falls apart.

GeoPappas · « **Reply #23 on:** October 23, 2007, 16:16 »

Quote from: digiology on October 23, 2007, 16:02

GeoPappas - Well I see now why you have not rushed out and bought one yet. I just looked at image samples of the cameras in your short list (plus a few more) and nothing impressed me either. Even though the camera will be for my husband and not for any stock (and I know I should not be comparing them to a SLR) I still have a hard time getting past the harsh noise most of these models produce. It seems anything past ISO100 and the image really falls apart.

I couldn't have said it better. You hit the nail right on the head.

While the P&S would not be my main camera, it would be nice to know that if I took a great shot I could upload it to most of the microstock sites and get it accepted.

I guess that we're asking for too much!

As I stated at the beginning, we currently own a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5 (5 MP, 12x optical zoom, IS) which performs pretty well, but it still has massive noise on higher ISOs. I have been thinking about upgrading to one of the cameras on the list. Even though it won't be dSLR quality, most of the new cameras will have better image quality and larger MP. At least that is something.

litifeta · « **Reply #24 on:** October 23, 2007, 17:07 »

I am with Leaf. Canon G7 or similar

digiology · « **Reply #25 on:** October 23, 2007, 18:16 »

Quote from: litifeta on October 23, 2007, 17:07

I am with Leaf. Canon G7 or similar

Yes, out of the samples I looked at the Canon colour really popped.

Well after all this I think I may just fix my Olympus. It has an F1.8 Super Bright Lens and even at 4mp it still stands up just as well to any of these new models. More megapixels really doesn't mean more quality - I am finally convinced. It will be nice when the camera companies increase the quality of the P&S models instead of just adding more megapixels.

cameraB · « **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2007, 21:14 »

I agree, the quality of pixels matters (to me) more than the resolution or the size of the sensor. A bigger sensor might but won't necessarily produce better pixels. I think this is one area that will be highly competitive in the next few years, producing better quality pixels than the competition, even at higher ISO, on a small sensor. It's what the D300 appears to do in a significant way.

By comparison, I keep reminding myself how much rapid change there has been to computer CPU's over the years, Moore's law.

My first digital camera was a Kodak DC120 "brick" and that thing was horribly noisy and less than 1/3 of 1 MP! That was only about 8 years ago.

sharpshot · « **Reply #27 on:** October 24, 2007, 03:09 »

The Sigma DP1 looks interesting but I don't think it is selling yet.

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/news/sigma_dp1.htm

pixelbrat · « **Reply #28 on:** October 24, 2007, 15:15 »

I have briefly owned and sold many, many compact cameras looking for one that suits me and so far my Canon SD700 IS wins in my book. The Panasonics have way too much noise for my tastes, the Fuji F20/30 was great in low light but I was not happy with daylight shots or the media card. I really liked my Sony P150 and can't remember why I sold it... possibly to get something smaller.

The Canon A620 was great as well but too big for my purse. The Canon A710 IS was great good too but I hated the long delay between flash pics. It was also a bit big for my purse. (Seeing a trend here?) Anyway, I now own a Canon SD700 IS that I bought used from B&H that I wouldn't part with for twice what I paid. It's certainly no DSLR but it's a nice "purse" camera when I can't carry around my 5D. Sure, it's an older model but it has IS, is small, has great image quality and it got a great review at DPReview.com. (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canonsd700is/) I would love to have one of these with the 28mm wide angle lens but the two newer canon models with this feature (SD800 and SD870) are mired in the Digic3 over-processed-by-noise-reduction problem on anything over ISO200. Of course, this is just my opinion. Many who own these newer models disagree with me on the image quality, from what I read in the DPReview forums, but by my eyes I've got the better camera.

I've had a few shots accepted using it so it can't be all bad.

Now if I were looking for something a bit bigger than this one I'd probably go for the G9, especially to have RAW. It's a bit too big for my purse though.

Maybe one day someone will make my dream camera. Good luck in your search!

Read_My_Rights · « **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2007, 17:41 »

Got to see the first free public speach of the Dalai Lhama in ATL on Monday. No SLR allowed without press pass. Bought the G9 the same day from KEH, used my charged Batteries from the XT and recorded not only stills from the 1st row with the big flash gun attached but also parts of the speach in avi. RAW + Movies in a tiny package, awsome. Will let you know about the picture quality in a couple of days.

digiology · « **Reply #30 on:** October 25, 2007, 09:50 »

Quote from: sharpshot on October 24, 2007, 03:09

The Sigma DP1 looks interesting but I don't think it is selling yet.

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/news/sigma_dp1.htm

I would love to see some sample images of the Sigma DP1 but I am unable to locate any. Can you post the link if you find one. (probably not in my budget anyways)

read_my_rights - I look forward to hearing how the G9 did

pixelbrat - You need to get a bigger purse!

Good review BTW

GeoPappas · « **Reply #31 on:** October 25, 2007, 11:57 »

Quote from: digiology on October 25, 2007, 09:50

Quote from: sharpshot on October 24, 2007, 03:09
The Sigma DP1 looks interesting but I don't think it is selling yet.

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/news/sigma_dp1.htm

I would love to see some sample images of the Sigma DP1 but I am unable to locate any. Can you post the link if you find one. (probably not in my budget anyways)

The Sigma DP1 hasn't been released yet. Everyone is wondering what is going on, and some have called it vaporware.

sharpshot · « **Reply #32 on:** October 25, 2007, 14:22 »

I think the Sgma DPI will have the same sensor as the SD14. I was impressed by the full size images from that. I think has a fixed focal length wide angle lens though, so that rules it out for me.

epixx · « **Reply #33 on:** October 25, 2007, 19:44 »

Quote from: GeoPappas on October 23, 2007, 12:23

Quote from: gbcimages on October 23, 2007, 11:26
Canon A640 10 MEG

The 640 was announced over a year ago, and is slightly older technology. As such, it does not offer IS (which is one of my requirements).

Thanks anyhow...

It has been replaced now by the 650 which has IS. A big advantage with that camera is the articulated LCD. It makes taking photos from very high or very low angles much easier. It also uses AA's, which is sometimes very convenient.

madelaide · « **Reply #34 on:** October 26, 2007, 16:05 »

Quote from: epixx on October 25, 2007, 19:44

It also uses AA's, which is sometimes very convenient.

It is essential in a P&S for me. I wouldn't have been pleased to find myself out of batteries in the middle of the Inca Trail.

And it saved me today, I took my P&S to my office to photograph our president, and when I was testing exposure settings I found batteries were gone, so I ran back to my office room and grabbed a pack of alkaline batteries.

Regards,
Adelaide