Author Topic: rejection (good one) (Read 12526 times)

luissantos84 · « **on:** January 10, 2011, 13:29 »

just to let you know my latest rejection on CanStockPhoto, honestly they are approving almost everything but this late rejection is RIDICULOUS!

the picture are some woman boots, I have added the following keywords:

buckspin, leather, boots, high, woman, heel, isolated, white, brown, background, leather, fashion, footwear, pair, female, winter, elegance, style, casual, two, object, fashionable,luxury, modern, women, warm, stylish, gorgeous, studio, new

if you take a lot at most photos related contributors have absurd keywords (that I won´t refer here), I just add keywords that I think it is proper but the answer from CanStockPhoto was that I have the following unproper keywords:

woman, background, female, winter, elegance, casual, one, object, modern, gorgeous, studio, new, close-up

the most ridiculous is WOMAN or FEMALE!.. (the reply from CanStockPhoto tell me that buyer will get there also)

what about a review of the all collection??

rubyroo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2011, 14:33 »

FWIW, I think I would have just put:

boots, leather, women's, high, heels, heeled, isolated, brown, white background, footwear, pair, winter, casual, two, modern, new, buckskin

and would have added whatever length they are, e.g. ankle, calf, knee, length

Personally I wouldn't put 'woman' because there's no woman in the picture - but I could imagine someone searching for 'female boots', certainly.

ETA: I would have left out 'stylish', 'gorgeous' and 'elegance' because I think these terms are subjective. If I were a buyer, I wouldn't want to trust someone else to tell me what I (or my paymaster) should consider stylish, gorgeous or elegant, for example. I would probably look for 'modern women's brown leather boots', and then choose the ones I thought were the appropriate style for my brief.

stormchaser · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2011, 15:53 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on January 10, 2011, 13:29

buckspin, leather, boots, high, woman, heel, isolated, white, brown, background, leather, fashion, footwear, pair, female, winter, elegance, style, casual, two, object, fashionable,luxury, modern, women, warm, stylish, gorgeous, studio, new

What the heck is Busckspin??

jm · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2011, 16:12 »

50% of rejections of my files on Canstock is "Image contains invalid keywords, title, or description. Please ensure keywording is relevant and specific."
There is a possibility to change them and resend file but it's quite difficult to find what keyword they found to be invalid.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2011, 16:13 »

Quote from: stormchaser on January 10, 2011, 15:53

Quote from: luissantos84 on January 10, 2011, 13:29

buckspin, leather, boots, high, woman, heel, isolated, white, brown, background, leather, fashion, footwear, pair, female, winter, elegance, style, casual, two, object, fashionable,luxury, modern, women, warm, stylish, gorgeous, studio, new

What the heck is Busckspin??

from my research it is what the boot is made of, in Portugal it is called CAMURÇA (some kind of leather, soft one

)

this was the first time I had a rejection because of keywording..

luissantos84 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2011, 16:14 »

Quote from: jm73 on January 10, 2011, 16:12

50% of rejections of my files on Canstock is "Image contains invalid keywords, title, or description. Please ensure keywording is relevant and specific."
There is a possibility to change them and resend file but it's quite difficult to find what keyword they found to be invalid.

need to ask them, they have answered me but I don´t agree, woman and female are essential

Duncan_CSP · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2011, 16:38 »

Hello luissantos84,

While I answered you privately, I'll also post here to provide any clarification for all the photographers reading here as well.

rubyroo is exactly right with their earlier observation in this thread.

Keywords should describe what is physically and prominently visible in the image. We discourage the use of subjective words unless they are very relevant to the image. When selecting each keyword, you should ask yourself "if a buyer searched this keyword, would they expect to find this image?" - if you answer is no, then don't include that keyword.

Someone searching "woman" will expect to find an actual woman, and not a boot. If you had "woman's" or "womans", then those would be acceptable, as there is a clear difference.

Sometimes people will list all possible names and parts visible in an image. For example, a photo of a cat may contain the keyword "claws". Well, yes, a cat has claws - but that keyword would only be relevant if claws are prominent or central to the image.

As far as subjective words, you could call almost anything a "background, gorgeous, beautiful, etc" - so such descriptive keywords are only allowed if they are closely associated.

Regards,

Duncan

sponner · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2011, 16:48 »

seems fair enough

rubyroo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2011, 16:57 »

Quote from: stormchaser on January 10, 2011, 15:53

What the heck is Busckspin??

I assumed he meant buckskin - I've never heard of buckspin either.

Luis... the other thing that might be of interest to the buyer would be the type of boot fastening - e.g. pull-on; elasticated; zipped; lace-up, etc. In case they were specifically looking for a certain style of fastening for some reason.

Duncan... thanks. It's always good to get confirmation from the people who make the ultimate decisions.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2011, 17:04 »

Quote from: rubyroo on January 10, 2011, 16:57

Quote from: stormchaser on January 10, 2011, 15:53
What the heck is Busckspin??

I assumed he meant buckskin - I've never heard of buckspin either.

Luis... the other thing that might be of interest to the buyer would be the type of boot fastening - e.g. pull-on; elasticated; zipped; lace-up, etc. In case they were specifically looking for a certain style of fastening for some reason.

Duncan... thanks. It's always good to get confirmation from the people who make the ultimate decisions.

thanks for the tips.. my only concern was with woman and female which I continue to think that they should be in keywords..

luissantos84 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2011, 17:05 »

Quote from: Duncan_CSP on January 10, 2011, 16:38

Hello luissantos84,

While I answered you privately, I'll also post here to provide any clarification for all the photographers reading here as well.

rubyroo is exactly right with their earlier observation in this thread.

Keywords should describe what is physically and prominently visible in the image. We discourage the use of subjective words unless they are very relevant to the image. When selecting each keyword, you should ask yourself "if a buyer searched this keyword, would they expect to find this image?" - if you answer is no, then don't include that keyword.

Someone searching "woman" will expect to find an actual woman, and not a boot. If you had "woman's" or "womans", then those would be acceptable, as there is a clear difference.

Sometimes people will list all possible names and parts visible in an image. For example, a photo of a cat may contain the keyword "claws". Well, yes, a cat has claws - but that keyword would only be relevant if claws are prominent or central to the image.

As far as subjective words, you could call almost anything a "background, gorgeous, beautiful, etc" - so such descriptive keywords are only allowed if they are closely associated.

Regards,

Duncan

glad you make it to here also, I am just spreading the word wanting fair reviews, again I guess all collection should be updated

rubyroo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2011, 17:07 »

A native English speaker would never search on 'woman boot'; they would search on 'woman's boot' or 'women's boot'. Possibly 'ladies boot' (not grammatically correct - but not everyone uses correct grammar) or 'lady's boot'. They would phrase it in terms of ownership of the boot.

'Female boot' is a possibility, in my view. Less likely than the above, but possible.

leaf · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2011, 17:30 »

I guess Canstock has the search stats so they know what is searched for, but I don't think most people are concerned about proper grammar when typing in a search box. I find myself usually searching from broad term to specific term... which is often the opposite order the words would be used in the english language, which have the descriptors first. in this case I would search for
boot woman
Looking at a few past Dreamstime searches I have
canada highway western
couple romantic
business multicultural setting

I was in the understanding though that it wasn't necessary to worry about plural / not plural keywords (except for exceptions like mouse mice) and it was best to have everything in the singular and the sites would take care of the plural form. I think I would have had the keyword woman and skipped womans or woman's. Perhaps that is wrong?!

Thanks for the feedback Duncan - it is a great help to get clarification from the source.

rubyroo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2011, 17:53 »

Quote from: leaf on January 10, 2011, 17:30

in this case I would search for
boot woman

If I searched for 'boot woman' I would expect my results to be predominantly women wearing boots (when what I wanted was Luis' image of woman-less boots). I might also find a woman in the boot of a car ("trunk" to our U.S. friends), perhaps even a woman being fired ('getting the boot'). I think we need some sort of protocol that makes searches reliable - and for me the one that works best is following grammatically correct logic... so I always keyword that way. I tend to add a variant without apostrophes, where applicable, as I know a lot of people omit apostrophes (because they don't understand them).

Colette · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2011, 17:53 »

Quote

A native English speaker would never search on 'woman boot'

Yes, propably. But are most buyers native English speakers?
In my own language I should indeed search for: Lady's boots (at least as first choice), but for I am not native English in this case I should search for: "boots" and "woman" or "lady".
On DT you can see how many searches are like these.
So in my opinion all these keywords can be added. In title and description it ought to be: "lady's boots" of course.
Another point is that these quotation marks are often not accepted in keywords: ', like in lady's, double words between ", like indeed: "lady's boots" and so on.

Quote

For example, a photo of a cat may contain the keyword "claws". Well, yes, a cat has claws - but that keyword would only be relevant if claws are prominent or central to the image.

Yes, in this case I agree with Duncan_CSP. Claws ought to be only in the keywords when there are claws in the image. No one use foot or nails when the image is a portrait with only the head.

rubyroo · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2011, 18:00 »

Quote from: Colette on January 10, 2011, 17:53

Yes, propably. But are most buyers native English speakers?

No, of course not. I didn't mean to imply that, and I fully appreciate what you're saying. What I meant was that the agencies seem to structure their keyword preferences on that basis - and so that's what I follow. It's a lot easier for a native English speaker, of course, and I can't imagine how difficult this must be for some who struggles with the language.

When I said 'no native English speaker would say that' (or whatever I said) - I meant to be helpful in that regard - to offer it as a tip to someone for whom English is a second language. It may have read a lot more harshly than it sounded in my head.

gostwyck · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2011, 18:03 »

Quote from: Colette on January 10, 2011, 17:53

Yes, propably. But are most buyers native English speakers?
In my own language I should indeed search for: Lady's boots (at least as first choice), but for I am not native English in this case I should search for: "boots" and "woman" or "lady".
On DT you can see how many searches are like these.
So in my opinion all these keywords can be added. In title and description it ought to be: "lady's boots" of course.
Another point is that these quotation marks are often not accepted in keywords: ', like in lady's, double words between ", like indeed: "lady's boots" and so on.

I'd agree with Colette. If you don't use a gender term then in your results you are still going to get women wearing boots and men wearing boots too. At least with the gender term you should cut out half of the unnecessary results. If you don't have a CV that enables phrases then you need greater flexibility on keywords. Best of all have a 'weighted' keyword system (like SS) that recognises which search terms are used when the image is bought or viewed.

Colette · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2011, 18:36 »

rybyroo: to avoid misunderstandings: I was not answering to your comment, for your post was a few seconds before mine....

But you are right: it is not easy. in my feeling I only start to learn to do it a bit correctly. And then all the diffculties on the different agencies!!!

Some split it all up to single words ignoring the marks, some split it all up using a captital for every word, some don't accept single and plural, etc.

For I get emails asking me if the image contains really exactly "this" or "that", I always try to add the scientific names of plants, trees and animals in the keywords. Officially you ought to write the first name always with a capital and the second never. For example: "Aix galericulata", that is a "Mandarin duck". You end up with: Aix, Galericulata, Mandarin and Duck. So at last the only correct keyword is "duck" and there are hundreds species of ducks... If the other keywords are rejected, the buyer knows nothing. In this case is a Mandarin duck in an image clearly a Mandarin duck (when it is a male!), that helps! When at least the buyer knows how a mandarin duck looks like...
Another funny example is: "prairy dog". It is a rodent, but you end up always with a "dog" in your keywords!

Lately I was thinking to use the scientific names in the title or description, but buyers don't search using the scientific names (as far as I have seen), only sometimes to control if the image contains indeed the right species they need.
And to make it even more complicated: some agencies only use the title and others only the description...

Perhaps once the day will come I will learn how to do it...

rubyroo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2011, 19:15 »

@ Colette - yes it's a nightmare really - that's why I work closely to the one protocol that I fully understand.

Ideally, I'd like to see all the agencies accept phrases, and everyone would be able to keyword in their own language and have it correctly translated via the agency. I still hold out some hope for the first of these, but the second...? I don't know if translation software is ever good enough to cover all eventualities.

On scientific naming - I did put the scientific name for a plant in my keywords once, and was rejected on those keywords, so I've never tried again since.

I tend to use plurals always (so that, for example, if I use the keyword 'printers' it will be picked up whether the buyer searches on 'printer' or 'printers'). Of course, Shutterstock knocks the 's' off the end, but they're the only ones, so I don't let that stop me

I imagine it might be helpful to have a sub-forum here where non-English speakers with a genuine need for assistance could get a bit of keywording help from time to time. Just as long as it didn't get over-run by English/American/Aussie contributors who just want other native English speakers to do their work for them...

luissantos84 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2011, 19:23 »

plurals? I just use them when the picture ask for it.. that´s a good one also..

regarding portrait etc people picture.. there is always the "people" keyword which I think it is totally incorrect if the picture has just one person.. but wanna know? I add people also thinking if other place it why not myself..

is people more searched than woman, man, person, etc?

IS seem to accept some scientific names, got a few

Colette · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2011, 19:44 »

Keywording in my own language? And then see it translated into English? Oh no!
When I sometimes take a look at my images and see the translation from English into my native language I spontaneously start weeping!

I can't imagine that a buyer will find something he needs that way!
For that reason I have set all and everything that is related to stock into English. The quickest way to learn. My thoughts are that a buyer can choose to try the English search when he is not according to the translation in his native language, but the opposite way works more difficult in my opinion.

For I have an idea how difficult it must be for a foreigner talking to me in my own language to understand what I am saying to him (I use phrases and proverbs and so very often and use them in a funny way), I am sure I will feel the same when I should be in his shoes. So phrases? Only native English will understand I am afraid....
But it is possible that I do not really understand what you mean to say...

The other side is: not only keywording, searching is also an 'art'!

Colette · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2011, 19:48 »

Yes, IS accepts them and you can send an explanation to them about unknown names by e-mail and the next time you use them they are added to the list.

rubyroo · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2011, 19:55 »

@ Luis - sorry, I said 'always' but I meant 'always when the picture asks for it'. That was clumsy of me. When I started out I would have put 'printer' and 'printers' on an image with more than one printer - but now I would just use the plural, because it would cover both. For me it's important to never use a word that does not relate directly to the image.

@ Colette - Ah well, forget that translation idea then

The last thing I want to do is make it worse for you! When I said 'phrases' I meant things like your reference to 'prairie dog'. I'd really like to see all agencies accept combinations like that without splitting them into single words.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2011, 20:12 »

Quote from: rubyroo on January 10, 2011, 19:55

For me it's important to never use a word that does not relate directly to the image.

same for me that´s for sure!

just to let you know I have a First Certificate in English, too bad I don´t practice my english very often, thanks for your lessons anyway

Colette · « **Reply #24 on:** January 10, 2011, 20:13 »

Yes, would be nice! Don't ignore the comma's between the keywords anymore!

And for the reason not everyone knows that "prairie dog" is written as two words (which is for example not the case in my language), I use "prairiedog" and "prairie dog"
both, so perhaps that makes things clearer for buyers.
But perhaps that is wrong too, for some reason I don't know.... $:-\$

For now: I am going to have some sleep! It is late!

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Author Topic: rejection (good one) (Read 12526 times)

luissantos84

rubyroo

stormchaser

jm

luissantos84

luissantos84

Duncan_CSP

sponner

rubyroo

luissantos84

luissantos84

rubyroo

leaf

rubyroo

Colette

rubyroo

gostwyck

Colette

rubyroo

luissantos84

Colette

Colette

rubyroo

luissantos84

Colette

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