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Author Topic: Removal of keywords and inserting their own crappy ones causing a loss of sales!  (Read 7597 times)

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ruxpriencdiam

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« on: March 04, 2012, 12:17 »
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I sure hope Duncan has a dam good reasonable explanation as to why CanStockPhoto is removing my keywords and inserting their crappy ones that no buyer in their right mind is going to search for??

I and CanStockPhoto are loosing sales due to missing and totally irrelevant keywords being inserted without my knowledge!

I am allowed 50 keywords which many of my images have on them and CanStockPhoto is removing my keywords and inserting theirs!

Anyone care to explain?


« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 13:23 »
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software glitch?

CD123

« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 17:00 »
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Have not experienced this with any of my images?  ???

wut

« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 17:12 »
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I just noticed they always add those, IMO totally useless, keywords at the end: stock image, images, royalty free photo, stock photos, stock photograph, stock photographs, picture, pictures, graphic, graphics. IN other words, they're willfully, intentionally spamming our images with weak and irrelevant (graphic etc) keywords

CD123

« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 17:19 »
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I just noticed they always add those, IMO totally useless, keywords at the end: stock image, images, royalty free photo, stock photos, stock photograph, stock photographs, picture, pictures, graphic, graphics. IN other words, they're willfully, intentionally spamming our images with weak and irrelevant (graphic etc) keywords
Also noticed the additions, but they never replaced any of my keywords.

RT


« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 17:38 »
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I just noticed they always add those, IMO totally useless, keywords at the end: stock image, images, royalty free photo, stock photos, stock photograph, stock photographs, picture, pictures, graphic, graphics. IN other words, they're willfully, intentionally spamming our images with weak and irrelevant (graphic etc) keywords

I wouldn't call it spamming and IMO they're not worthless either, as I understand it they do that to help your images to be picked up in a Google search for when somebody searches for example: 'stock photo' of a xxxxxx. Incidentally most agencies do the exact same thing but you don't see the words in your list.
And as they add these keywords to every single applicable file for every contributor it does you and everyone else no harm whatsoever.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 17:42 by RT »

wut

« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 17:45 »
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I just noticed they always add those, IMO totally useless, keywords at the end: stock image, images, royalty free photo, stock photos, stock photograph, stock photographs, picture, pictures, graphic, graphics. IN other words, they're willfully, intentionally spamming our images with weak and irrelevant (graphic etc) keywords

I wouldn't call it spamming and IMO they're not worthless either, as I understand it they do that to help your images to be picked up in a Google search for when somebody searches for example: 'stock photo' of a xxxxxx.
And as they add these keywords to every single applicable file for every contributor it does you and everyone else no harm whatsoever.

Yes, I though about SEO, but who's really searching stock photos via Google?  ??? And why is it then that almost every single agency is trying to persuade us to use less keywords? IS even rejected many photos for irrelevant keywords a year or two ago (and I never really keyword spammed my images)

« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 18:12 »
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Barry I agree.  I don't mind them inserting more keywords if I have room, but if they are removing keywords that I put in that is in my opinion unethical. I know that they are trying to take advantage of search engines outside of CS, but that tells me CS is in trouble if they are resorting to this kind of activity.  My sales suck there, it's no wonder.

« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2012, 18:58 »
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I sure hope Duncan has a dam good reasonable explanation as to why CanStockPhoto is removing my keywords and inserting their crappy ones that no buyer in their right mind is going to search for??

I and CanStockPhoto are loosing sales due to missing and totally irrelevant keywords being inserted without my knowledge!

I am allowed 50 keywords which many of my images have on them and CanStockPhoto is removing my keywords and inserting theirs!

Anyone care to explain?

----------------------------------------

What words of yours did they remove?

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 19:25 »
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I sure hope Duncan has a dam good reasonable explanation as to why CanStockPhoto is removing my keywords and inserting their crappy ones that no buyer in their right mind is going to search for??

I and CanStockPhoto are loosing sales due to missing and totally irrelevant keywords being inserted without my knowledge!

I am allowed 50 keywords which many of my images have on them and CanStockPhoto is removing my keywords and inserting theirs!

Anyone care to explain?

----------------------------------------

What words of yours did they remove?
I haven't looked at all of my pics since i am just finding this out today but one image i keyworded with 38 keywords of which there were only 29 they listed so i was missing 9 keywords. Another has 36 when i keyworded 42.

The system is also taking phrases and separating them into single words instead of phrases like "copy space" and "room for your text" for example are all coming out as copy, space, room, for, your, text,

They are in turn as Duncan says adding their keywords in the search which as far as i am concerned is a waste

Who in their right mind is going to search for "Stock photo" if they are looking for a  Basidiomycota or Agaricomycetes? Not me nor many other buyers I'm sure.

« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 19:56 »
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If anyone has a specific question (since this is addressed to me) instead of posting as a thread on here and the CanStockPhoto forum, we're happy to answer directly through a support ticket - to avoid causing any undue confusion and misinformation.

I answered this directly on the CanStockPhoto discussion forum
here, for anyone who is interested.

Regarding adding keywords, we have certain suggested keywords that are displayed with all our images so that they can be found better in web searches. This does not affect your CanStockPhoto search results, and helps drive more sales to your images. We know what we're doing here, and I can't imagine anyone will find a problem in helping drive you more sales.

Regarding removing of keywords - we do not make a habit of ever removing keywords. Generally if a keyword is removed, it's the inspectors doing it as a favor instead of rejecting the images.  In the CanStockPhoto forum you included one of your images as an example. I'll re-post what I said there, for everyone's benefit given this is publicly posted here as well:

-----
shed; storage shed; building; door; one door; handle; roof; door handle; siding; shingles; light; pole; lightpole; electrical; constructed; industrial; room for your text; copy space; wood; gray; green; brown; tan; rocks; grass; gold; wood pole; conduit; wooden; stained

This is actually a perfect example of containing keywords which are not relevant.


There should be little doubt that no buyer searching "electrical" will be expecting to find this image. This hurts legitimately related electrical images, and looks poor to anyone doing an "electrical" search. The same goes for someone searching "door handle", "gold", "light", or several of the other keywords included in the image.

Again, keywords should describe what is only physically and prominently visible in the image. None of the above keywords describe anything that is prominent in the image.

Furthermore, you included "copy space" and "room for your text" - but in fact there is no copy space available in the image, as it's tightly cropped around the shed. Copy space means there is room to add text that does not interfere with the main subject of the image. If you had an area of blue sky visible above the roof, then "copy space" would be appropriate, as a buyer could add text to the image without covering the main (and only) focus of the image, the shed.

Including vaguely related keywords will only hurt your images overall ranking, it's sales, and the results of many other legitimate searches. We generally recommend 5 to 15 focused keywords per image.

Duncan

« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 20:03 »
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If anyone has a specific question (since this is addressed to me) instead of posting as a thread on here and the CanStockPhoto forum, we're happy to answer directly through a support ticket - to avoid causing any undue confusion and misinformation.

I answered this directly on the CanStockPhoto discussion forum here, for anyone who is interested.

Regarding adding keywords, we have certain suggested keywords that are displayed with all our images so that they can be found better in web searches. This does not affect your CanStockPhoto search results, and helps drive more sales to your images. We know what we're doing here, and I can't imagine anyone will find a problem in helping drive you more sales.

Regarding removing of keywords - we do not make a habit of ever removing keywords. Generally if a keyword is removed, it's the inspectors doing it as a favor instead of rejecting the images.  In the CanStockPhoto forum you included one of your images as an example. I'll re-post what I said there, for everyone's benefit given this is publicly posted here as well:

-----
shed; storage shed; building; door; one door; handle; roof; door handle; siding; shingles; light; pole; lightpole; electrical; constructed; industrial; room for your text; copy space; wood; gray; green; brown; tan; rocks; grass; gold; wood pole; conduit; wooden; stained

This is actually a perfect example of containing keywords which are not relevant.


There should be little doubt that no buyer searching "electrical" will be expecting to find this image. This hurts legitimately related electrical images, and looks poor to anyone doing an "electrical" search. The same goes for someone searching "door handle", "gold", "light", or several of the other keywords included in the image.

Again, keywords should describe what is only physically and prominently visible in the image. None of the above keywords describe anything that is prominent in the image.

Furthermore, you included "copy space" and "room for your text" - but in fact there is no copy space available in the image, as it's tightly cropped around the shed. Copy space means there is room to add text that does not interfere with the main subject of the image. If you had an area of blue sky visible above the roof, then "copy space" would be appropriate, as a buyer could add text to the image without covering the main (and only) focus of the image, the shed.

Including vaguely related keywords will only hurt your images overall ranking, it's sales, and the results of many other legitimate searches. We generally recommend 5 to 15 focused keywords per image.

Duncan


--------------------------------------------


Duncan,

Thanks for the information.  Can you explain how vaguely related keywords will hurt my images overall ranking?  Is there a penalty for people looking at an image and not buying it?  There has been speculation in the microstock world that some sites penalize images with lots of keywords, or with many views and few sales.  If Canstock uses some system like that, it would be great to know so I could edit my keywords accordingly.

Thanks

 

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 20:04 »
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Still doesn't answer where my missing keywords went like "storage shed" and other relevant to the image? or how phrases are turned to single words?


« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 20:21 »
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Thanks for the response, Duncan..but ......

Your response is flimsy at best.  You are empowering your inspectors to make a judgment call that if our keywords are less important than your Internet search keywords then thats okay.  Driving traffic to CanStockPhoto with keywords like "Stock photo" or room for your text when it is in fact totally irrelevant to my image is simply softening opportunity for us contributors.  Better for you since it drives traffic your way but crappy for the contributor who is helping you do that via their keywords being pruned.   By the way, some (or many) dont frequent every forum, including CS.  Oh, and by the way, by you saying that we know what were doing factually says that we contributors dont know what we are doing.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 20:23 by Mantis »

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 20:50 »
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Lots of good copy space for a business card.

And there is an Electrical box and Electrical conduit and Electrical light.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 20:52 by ruxpriencdiam »

« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 21:35 »
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There are other sites too where the inspectors make sure the keywords are relevant. I remember having images rejected on IS because of what they considered irrelevant keywords, having to edit the keywords and re-submit the images. While it can be frustrating to have keywords rejected, it is part of the deal we enter when we submit images, just like having images rejected that look perfectly sale-able to us.

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 22:58 »
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When thinking of keywords break the shot down to these elements:

What is found in the image?
Where are the items?
What is the condition or state of the items?
What actions or moods are taking place or implied?
What colors are present?
What textures are found?
What shapes are found?
What concept, theme or idea is found?"

« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2012, 02:30 »
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...

lagereek

« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2012, 02:52 »
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This is not so bad!  what about when IS, kept removing and adding keywords like: horizontal, vertical, color-image, etc.

CD123

« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2012, 02:54 »
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I think Canstock has been around long enough to be able to say they know what they are doing as website owner without derogating any contributor's knowledge about keywording.

They are not replacing any keywords and they have decided to utilize a system which break phrases up into individual words. As all phrases consist of individual words, buyers typing in phrases will get the same result in their search.

Deleting words they find irrelevant is not closely as bad, i.m.o., as getting images being rejected for 1 or 2 possible irrelevant keywords.

I doubt if Canstock will change major policy on how they run their site due to a few individuals who does not like it. Like with all businesses, nobody is forcing any one to use Canstock's services to sell their images and if their sales are so bad as some suggest here, just delete your port and upload to a site who follows principles you are happy with.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 03:12 by CD123 »

grp_photo

« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2012, 03:12 »
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Lots of good copy space for a business card.

And there is an Electrical box and Electrical conduit and Electrical light.

Man I'm so happy that the only agency I'm running has solely pictures from me, dealing with contributors like you and stealing my time would drive me insane!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 05:37 by grp_photo »

« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2012, 04:42 »
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I think Canstock has been around long enough to be able to say they know what they are doing as website owner without derogating any contributor's knowledge about keywording.

They are not replacing any keywords and they have decided to utilize a system which break phrases up into individual words. As all phrases consist of individual words, buyers typing in phrases will get the same result in their search.

Deleting words they find irrelevant is not closely as bad, i.m.o., as getting images being rejected for 1 or 2 possible irrelevant keywords.

I doubt if Canstock will change major policy on how they run their site due to a few individuals who does not like it. Like with all businesses, nobody is forcing any one to use Canstock's services to sell their images and if their sales are so bad as some suggest here, just delete your port and upload to a site who follows principles you are happy with.  ;)

I have been with Canstock for seven years and consider them one of the most sensible, reasonable and contributor-friendly agencies around.

Microbius

« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2012, 05:37 »
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I have been with Canstock for seven years and consider them one of the most sensible, reasonable and contributor-friendly agencies around.
Agreed, and nothing discussed here has damaged my opinion. Keep up the good work Duncan.

« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2012, 11:03 »
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Man I'm so happy that the only agency I'm running has solely pictures from me, dealing with contributors like you and stealing my time would drive me insane!

Thanks for saying what I couldn't say out loud :) .  Totally agree with Duncan.

ShadySue

« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2012, 11:17 »
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When thinking of keywords break the shot down to these elements:

What is found in the image?
Where are the items?
What is the condition or state of the items?
What actions or moods are taking place or implied?
What colors are present?
What textures are found?
What shapes are found?
What concept, theme or idea is found?"

Think, once, twice and thrice about what the buyer wants, and whether they'd find it in an image.
E.g, you had 'gold' as a keyword. How likely is it that a buyer who searches on 'gold' is hoping to find that image?

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2012, 12:58 »
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When thinking of keywords break the shot down to these elements:

What is found in the image?
Where are the items?
What is the condition or state of the items?
What actions or moods are taking place or implied?
What colors are present?
What textures are found?
What shapes are found?
What concept, theme or idea is found?"

Think, once, twice and thrice about what the buyer wants, and whether they'd find it in an image.
E.g, you had 'gold' as a keyword. How likely is it that a buyer who searches on 'gold' is hoping to find that image?
True and agree somehow that got missed in the transfer of keywords from one to the other since i started with one shed and changed the others and transferred the keywords then went through and thought i deleted the irrelevant ones

Still some of the ones keyworded in PS IPTC file info that were transferred like  "Storage Shed" "one door"  and "wood pole" are missing and there are a bunch more i could have added but didn't.

lisafx

« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2012, 17:27 »
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I think Duncan proved his point very well.  The words removed don't seem relevant to me.  Most of the other sites have similar standards for keywords.  I know for a fact that other sites' inspectors are also authorized to remove irrelevant keywords.  If others left in all those extra words Canstock removed, then somebody was falling down on the job.

As for adding words that will help my images be found in google searches.  Hooray!  I very much appreciate your doing that for my images Duncan.  I like sales :)

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2012, 17:41 »
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I think Duncan proved his point very well.  The words removed don't seem relevant to me

Say what???

The word/phrase "Storage shed" isn't relevant to an image of a "Storage Shed"???

 Am i missing something here???

lisafx

« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2012, 18:19 »
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The word/phrase "Storage shed" isn't relevant to an image of a "Storage Shed"???

Am i missing something here???

Apparently you are.  Duncan very clearly explained that phrases such as storage shed are broken down into two separate words.  Since your image still has the keywords storage and shed it will turn up in any searches for storage shed.

I've quoted his text for you below so you don't have to go hunting back to the last page for it.  :)

All keywords are automatically broken down into individual words. It makes no difference for ranking if a coma is between them or not.

"storage" and "shed" are presently included with the image - for the reason above, "storage shed" won't be displayed as a separate phrase in the keywords.

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2012, 18:40 »
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The word/phrase "Storage shed" isn't relevant to an image of a "Storage Shed"???

Am i missing something here???


Apparently you are.  Duncan very clearly explained that phrases such as storage shed are broken down into two separate words.  Since your image still has the keywords storage and shed it will turn up in any searches for storage shed.

I've quoted his text for you below so you don't have to go hunting back to the last page for it.  :)

All keywords are automatically broken down into individual words. It makes no difference for ranking if a coma is between them or not.

"storage" and "shed" are presently included with the image - for the reason above, "storage shed" won't be displayed as a separate phrase in the keywords.

No i got that and it is irrelevant.

Here is why.

type in stock photo storage and this is what you get. https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=stock+photo+storage

Now this doesn't have anything resembling a storage shed on the first page at all, it has lots of places to get stock photos storage places cheese storage but no sheds.

Now type in stock photo storage shed and this is what you get. https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=stock+photo+storage+shed

Look there are actually "STORAGE SHEDS" to be found on the first page the entire first page has a storage shed image to be found!

So how does leaving out a phrase help in the search? It doesn't it actually hurts because it doesn't search for what there is to be searched for.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 19:06 by ruxpriencdiam »

RT


« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2012, 19:22 »
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^ Well you know what - remove your images from the site then you'll (and the rest of us) will be happy, geez how many more people have to tell you you're in the wrong here.

No i got that and it is irrelevant.

Here is why.

type in stock photo storage and this is what you get. https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=stock+photo+storage

Now this doesn't have anything resembling a storage shed on the first page at all, it has lots of places to get stock photos storage places cheese storage but no sheds.

Now type in stock photo storage shed and this is what you get. https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=stock+photo+storage+shed

Look there are actually "STORAGE SHEDS" to be found on the first page the entire first page has a storage shed image to be found!

So how does leaving out a phrase help in the search? It doesn't it actually hurts because it doesn't search for what there is to be searched for.


And here's a real eye opener for you, enter the separate words 'storage' and 'shed' in the search box on CanStockPhoto and you'll never guess what the results are  :o :o
I'll put you out of your misery - images with 'storage sheds' in them, well who'd have thought it eh!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 19:31 by RT »

ShadySue

« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2012, 19:28 »
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@OP Looks like the system is working. You type in storage shed and you get images with the keywords storage and shed. You don't need "storage shed". It's the way canstock have chosen to implement search.
Different agencies have different requirements, and you need to submit to each agency accordingly.

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2012, 19:35 »
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@OP Looks like the system is working. You type in storage shed and you get images with the keywords storage and shed. You don't need "storage shed". It's the way canstock have chosen to implement search.
Different agencies have different requirements, and you need to submit to each agency accordingly.
Maybe so on CanStockPhoto but what about the web where lots of buyers begin their searches where it doesn't work that way.

If i as a buyer on the web were looking for a storage shed i am going to type in storage shed and find a storage shed somewhere quite quickly but if i just type storage or shed i will have to search deeper to find what i am looking for correct?

CD123

« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2012, 00:43 »
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It is quite clear that this is not a normal storage shed for you, but rather a watershed. After all the input and feedback I think it now has reached the point where you have to decide if you can live with broken phrases or not. If not, withdraw your port and close your account. If you can, make peace with it and let this thread die a natural peaceful death......  :P
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 00:46 by CD123 »

« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2012, 01:11 »
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thank god that they are correcting our keywords and dont disqualify for wrong keywords like IS and not giving us burden to reupload with the keywords they want :-)

« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2012, 02:01 »
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There is actually a huge problem here. Most of you seem to assume two things:
1. In site search engines will not improve
2. The quantity of storage shed (in this particular case) images will not rise significantly

First, there is a huge space for improvement for all the sites in case of search engines. In that case the sites will be able to cluster the images better around the particular keywords without you needing to remove those that are not directly relevant to your image.

Second, if the number of images with a particular subject increases to a level, only those extra keywords that were now removed would be the ones that could distinguish a picture from another one. We are already facing this problem in several areas (e.g. images with people or everyday objects on them). Without adding those extra words you will not allow your possible buyers a chance to filter your image from the crowd (e.g. you have a shed with a lamp next to it while the others are not having one and the particular buyer would like to have one in the photo).

If we make the assumptions above then we will end up with indistinguishable images in the near future and it is going to be really hard to stand out from the crowd even in case of highly niche images.

CD123

« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2012, 02:34 »
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Oh please, can someone make them stop!!!!!

« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2012, 14:15 »
0


Lots of good copy space for a business card.

And there is an Electrical box and Electrical conduit and Electrical light.


You missed a few keywords, I think you should raise a ticket with CS to sort it out

Grass    (at the bottom)
Light Bulb  (convinently located at the intersection of the rule of 1/19th within the electric light)
air (The photo isn't taken in outer space surely there is air in the photo)
planet earth (I'm going out on a limb here and assuming its not on mars)
proton (included in all atoms)
higgs boson particle (I suppose someone would have to prove it's not contained within the atoms that make up the shed)

« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2012, 14:54 »
0


Lots of good copy space for a business card.

And there is an Electrical box and Electrical conduit and Electrical light.


You missed a few keywords, I think you should raise a ticket with CS to sort it out

Grass    (at the bottom)
Light Bulb  (convinently located at the intersection of the rule of 1/19th within the electric light)
air (The photo isn't taken in outer space surely there is air in the photo)
planet earth (I'm going out on a limb here and assuming its not on mars)
proton (included in all atoms)
higgs boson particle (I suppose someone would have to prove it's not contained within the atoms that make up the shed)


http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347


 

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