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Agency Based Discussion => Canva => Topic started by: BelieveInStock on October 03, 2023, 02:31

Title: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: BelieveInStock on October 03, 2023, 02:31
Hi,

Tomorrow the Canva Magic AI tool will be launched. How are contributors going to be compensated for training their AI tool ?
 
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: pancaketom on October 03, 2023, 11:22
cryptically and poorly
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DannyCanva on October 04, 2023, 10:12
We are committing $200 million over the next 3 years to AI and Creator royalties :)
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Her Ugliness on October 04, 2023, 10:22
We are committing $200 million over the next 3 years to AI and Creator royalties :)

Cool. According to stats I found online Canva had over over 100 million stock images, videos, and graphic elements and over 610,000 templates last year.
So 200.000.000$ divided through (over) 100.610.000 contributor items divided through three years means less than 0.66$ per image/video/graphic/template per year. Doesn't sound as exciting as $200 million anymore.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DannyCanva on October 04, 2023, 10:37
We are committing $200 million over the next 3 years to AI and Creator royalties :)

Cool. According to stats I found online Canva had over over 100 million stock images, videos, and graphic elements and over 610,000 templates last year.
So 200.000.000$ divided through (over) 100.610.000 contributor items divided through three years means less than 0.66$ per image/video/graphic/template per year. Doesn't sound as exciting as $200 million anymore.

When it comes to the raw number of contributor images, it's important to note that much of our stock content is not used at all (0 usage in a month), or very low (1-2 usages a month). We work with content partners to supplement our library in bulk, but  compensate based on usages and volume. That means that the number of contributed items isn't necessarily the most appropriate figure to look at.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: BelieveInStock on October 04, 2023, 10:43
Thanks Danny,

When will you share the details with us on how those royalties will be distributed ?

Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: shirux on October 04, 2023, 15:40
Hi Danny,

The effect (creator royalties) is inmediately? Or do we as contributors have to apply for this AI to be trained with our content?
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: lima on October 05, 2023, 07:22
today i see this in my canva earning page...
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: SuperPhoto on October 05, 2023, 08:13
We are committing $200 million over the next 3 years to AI and Creator royalties :)

Hi Danny - appreciate that you are participating in this forum.

Since the "AI" tools are designed to create a perpetual income for the corporation (and most are approaching it from a greedy standpoint, aka - they want it "all")... Why not compensate contributors in the same recurring, perpetual income format? I.e., micropayments for ANY/ALL contributor images used in the creation of an "ai" image?

Much fairer, and better long term strategy than the myopic view some corporations are currently taking.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Yakystockero on October 05, 2023, 09:48
"0.66$ per image/video/graphic/template per year."


  I have 15k photos, x 0.66$= 9.900$ / per year, so.... nope.   
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: pancaketom on October 05, 2023, 10:53
It seems the magic has already been trained off of our work and the opt out just means you won't get paid for it? 

How can you still opt out if the magic is already trained?
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Mir on October 05, 2023, 12:24
I am wondering the same.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DannyCanva on October 09, 2023, 00:45
It seems the magic has already been trained off of our work and the opt out just means you won't get paid for it? 

How can you still opt out if the magic is already trained?
All of Canva's first-party generative AI features are only trained on licensed data with consent. We have not trained or released any first-party generative AI features that have been trained on Creator data (while we're offering a notice period and opt-out).

Some of our existing Magic Studio features are powered by third party partners and open source models, of which we are increasingly mandating a requirement to use fully-licensed datasets. To clarify, we also have not licensed Creator data to third parties, and we have technological and contractual terms that aim to prevent third parties from using Creator data without licensing.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: panicAttack on October 09, 2023, 05:23
canva hasn't accepted me, but through istock/getty i have many of my photos on canva

how can I choose not to be in your AI training program and, if it's not an option, how will I get paid for my work?

thank you
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DannyCanva on October 11, 2023, 00:45
canva hasn't accepted me, but through istock/getty i have many of my photos on canva

how can I choose not to be in your AI training program and, if it's not an option, how will I get paid for my work?

thank you
Hi there, sorry but you would have to raise these matters with iStock/Getty.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Dumc on October 18, 2023, 02:17
I got 14$. Yeeeeej
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: FHphotography on October 18, 2023, 02:38
I got about 10 dollars. This is even less than they have cut my pay this month, which is about 20 dollars. Not very impressed ;D.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on October 18, 2023, 03:11
LOL thanks Canva, about 5% of what Adobe paid.  >:(
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DesignT on October 18, 2023, 03:32
I am satisfied with the amount I received. I got more than Adobe. But I have more traffic on Canva, I earn more at the moment. :)
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: rushay on October 18, 2023, 03:42
Daylight robbery. I guess we living in 1984 now guys
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: derby on October 18, 2023, 03:50
I get 4 US$  ::) unbelievable
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: MPfoto71 on October 18, 2023, 05:00
Hi DannyCanva,

I just received $2.01 for my initial participation in the AI Creators program for my 8,966 photos.
Sorry, but I can only hope this is a joke, because $0.000224 can hardly be adequate compensation for using photos to train your AI.

To put this in context - with the same portfolio this is:
-> 0.71% of what Shutterstock paid for the same portfolio
-> 0.67% of what AdobeStock paid for the same portfolio
-> 1.10% of what BigStock paid for the same portfolio

I hope there will be some more compensation here and ask for some official info on this.

Many thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Her Ugliness on October 18, 2023, 05:18
Double glad now that I opted out of AI training.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Dumc on October 18, 2023, 06:26
I got 14$. Yeeeeej

I got 200$ at adove for comparison.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: BelieveInStock on October 18, 2023, 07:18
I am sure it will be a monthly bonus. What we received now is too low to be a one time boost as Adobe paid us.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Her Ugliness on October 18, 2023, 07:30
I am sure it will be a monthly bonus. What we received now is too low to be a one time boost as Adobe paid us.

I can imagine there could be more payments for new content in the future - But why would Canva pay you for usage to train their AI for the same image each month?
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Mir on October 18, 2023, 07:41
DannyCanva said this:
"AI royalties will continued to be paid each and every month going forward."
I think they also mentioned it would be for the next 3 years, but I might be wrong, not sure this period was for the AI royalties.

I myself opted out.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Her Ugliness on October 18, 2023, 08:00
DannyCanva said this:
"AI royalties will continued to be paid each and every month going forward."
I think they also mentioned it would be for the next 3 years, but I might be wrong, not sure this period was for the AI royalties.

I myself opted out.

Yepp. Still have my doubts they'll pay you for the same images that have already been used for training each month. But I guess we'll see next month.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Mir on October 18, 2023, 08:15
Yepp. Still have my doubts they'll pay you for the same images that have already been used for training each month. But I guess we'll see next month.

I won't receive anything since I opted out. I added the info for those asking.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DesignT on October 18, 2023, 09:48
I am sure it will be a monthly bonus. What we received now is too low to be a one time boost as Adobe paid us.

I think so too. According to what was written in the detailed information, there will be a monthly payment if they use our content for AI development.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: MPfoto71 on October 18, 2023, 10:20
I think so too. According to what was written in the detailed information, there will be a monthly payment if they use our content for AI development.
I would be very happy if you are right and this is "only" the monthly payment.

But there it also says very clearly below the payment "We've given your first payment a one-time boost as special thanks....".
"We've given..." is the past tense and so it means that the one-time payment in my case should already be included in the $2.01.

That's why I would like to see an official information here and I think with 9k images you are allowed to ask for it @DannyCanva :-)
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DesignT on October 18, 2023, 11:00
I think so too. According to what was written in the detailed information, there will be a monthly payment if they use our content for AI development.
I would be very happy if you are right and this is "only" the monthly payment.

But there it also says very clearly below the payment "We've given your first payment a one-time boost as special thanks....".
"We've given..." is the past tense and so it means that the one-time payment in my case should already be included in the $2.01.

That's why I would like to see an official information here and I think with 9k images you are allowed to ask for it @DannyCanva :-)

Unfortunately, the description below the amount and the description in the detailed information are contradictory. We hope to receive an official answer soon from /me
  :)
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: cascoly on October 18, 2023, 12:56
yes, pretty pathetic - $14   will see how monthly payments accrue
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: cosus on October 18, 2023, 17:03
Because under the amount it says: "We 've given your first payment a one-time boost and special thanks..." you obviously can't expect much in the next months, because the "boost" won't be there anymore.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Fairplay on October 18, 2023, 17:10
Miserable magic payment.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on October 19, 2023, 01:28
cryptically and poorly
So funny how true this turned out to be.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Noedelhap on October 19, 2023, 12:51
I received $21 of Magic Creator payment, which isn't much, on top of already dwindling sales....It shows that Canva will shortly be one of the mid-tier agencies for me. Monthly earnings are now 30% of what they used to be 2 years ago.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: DiscreetDuck on October 25, 2023, 09:42
It's your responsibility to agree to the Contributor agreement : https://www.canva.com/policies/contributor-agreement/ (https://www.canva.com/policies/contributor-agreement/)
If you disagree, you can delete your account, as simple as that.
Why complain for the AI Compensation of Magic Creator?  It's your responsibility to opt out from what you disagree! (and I am happy I opted out).
as if Canva is trying to scam contributors...  ::)
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: MPfoto71 on October 25, 2023, 09:57
Hi DannyCanva,

...
I just received $2.01 for my initial participation in the AI Creators program for my 8,966 photos.
Sorry, but I can only hope this is a joke, because $0.000224 can hardly be adequate compensation for using photos to train your AI.
...

I hope there will be some more compensation here and ask for some official info on this.
For context, I'll quote myself - sorry about that :-)

Since we don't seem to get an answer here to the question whether (in my case $2.01) this was the total compensation for our assets (in my case 9000 images), I just spent a good half hour on the Canva site looking for a support email - with no result.
I'm probably just too blind to find it :)

Does anyone have a Canva support email address handy so I can follow up on whether that was all the compensation?

Thank you,
Michael

PS: And yes I know you could have clicked opt-out, but that's not the point here. The point is at least reasonably fair compensation.
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: Mir on October 25, 2023, 10:55
https://www.canva.com/en_au/help/creators-support-form/ (https://www.canva.com/en_au/help/creators-support-form/)
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: MPfoto71 on October 25, 2023, 11:02
https://www.canva.com/en_au/help/creators-support-form/ (https://www.canva.com/en_au/help/creators-support-form/)
Thank you Mir - I guess I was looking too hard for an email :-)
Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: MPfoto71 on October 26, 2023, 05:27
https://www.canva.com/en_au/help/creators-support-form/ (https://www.canva.com/en_au/help/creators-support-form/)
Thank you Mir - I guess I was looking too hard for an email :-)
To keep you informed on the topic of "Was it all to Boost AI Payment":
I got a really quick response from support with clear and concise answers, so from there a "thumbs up" for support.

However, the content of the answers is really sobering.
I was told that the "one-time Boost payment" is 20% of the average last month's earnings.
So it is calculated completely according to the use of the image data and not according to the amount of data, which in my opinion is already the wrong approach for an AI training, but well so it is.

If we now take 20% of the average last monthly revenue (which is 1.67% of the average annual revenue - 20 divided by 12) as a one-time "boost payment" for the use of the AI training, this results in my case with 8966 photos in a usage fee of $2.01 divided by 8966 = $0.000224, i.e. 0.02 cents per image.

Furthermore I got the hint in the support that the future monthly AI usage fees can be significantly lower, quote:
-> "To set your expectations, this initial payment is intentionally larger than what the monthly payments will be since those payments will be based on your upcoming content.".

So it will still be significantly less than $2.01 - Um, hello?

We were already upset when iStock set the royalties at 15% and when Shutterstock restarted the hamster wheel with the steps every year and cut our royalties by about 60%.

But what is happening here at Canva is, in my personal opinion, really unsurpassable in terms of greed.
For me, this is really completely ridiculous and absurd.

I realize that I'm risking my Canva account with this post, because I'm sure I'll make myself unpopular there.
But there really are limits to greed and they are exceeded here by lengths.

This just had to come out now,
Greetings, Michael


Title: Re: Canva Magic AI and contributor compensation for AI database training
Post by: roidi on October 26, 2023, 14:09
And what about Pixabay.com, the AI also trains there, surely it wasn't in the original conditions?
Nobody ever "paid for Coffee" anyway, sad.