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Author Topic: Canva  (Read 422477 times)

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No Free Lunch

« Reply #400 on: February 26, 2015, 16:51 »
0
I have an image that sold on YOUR SITE 78 times that someone decided to just delete. In fact, in just one month it sold 34 times on your site. Are you going to really tell me your customers think that file is not quality and they dont want it?
...

If 78 sales or fewer were the retention criteria, they'd delete all 240 of my images there!

In my case 2,923 images (my entire collection) will be deleted  :-\



Semmick Photo

« Reply #401 on: February 26, 2015, 17:00 »
+2
From what I understand they want pretty images to represent Canva, not ugly images that sell a lot. Beautiful images make beautiful designs.

BD

« Reply #402 on: February 26, 2015, 17:02 »
0
I have an image that sold on YOUR SITE 78 times that someone decided to just delete. In fact, in just one month it sold 34 times on your site. Are you going to really tell me your customers think that file is not quality and they dont want it?
...

If 78 sales or fewer were the retention criteria, they'd delete all 240 of my images there! And I've checked a couple of times today to see if anything's been deleted, but so far not.

I cut & paste the sales pages into an excel spreadsheet, sorted them in order of download totals and about half have been downloaded, not one of them sold 78 times.

I understand the idea that sales at other agencies aren't something Canva wants to consider, but I'm truly puzzled as to why an image with demonstrable sales on Canva would be removed - unless there were model release, property release or other IP issues (like it's of a cruise ship, or has a visible logo or something that would only fly as editorial).

There were no issues like that. It is a background image with no people, etc., in it. It has been accepted and sold well on all other agencies I contribute to. I am equally as puzzled.

« Reply #403 on: February 26, 2015, 17:16 »
+2
It must be some kind of mistake if they deleted an image that has had 78 sales...

None of my images at Canva have been deleted yet...and I hope I will not have so many deleted when they will go through my portfolio. This month is BME for me at Canva, I do better there now than most months at SS.

objowl

« Reply #404 on: February 26, 2015, 17:21 »
+3
The single use license must surely mean that buyers often return to purchase the same images for subsequent designs, this makes retropective reviews a buyers nightmare.   Maybe we can expect plenty of ODs at other agencies?

« Reply #405 on: February 26, 2015, 17:26 »
0
"We have more reviewers coming out of training and starting to work now..."

I have deleted images from my portfolio too, but I don't know which ones exactly. Maybe some of the new reviewers started to work now!  ???
I believe they don't even know how many times an image is sold. AFAIK there's no counter of the sales for the individual images.

« Reply #406 on: February 26, 2015, 17:38 »
+5
... AFAIK there's no counter of the sales for the individual images.

Not on the site; that's where excel's COUNTIF() function helped me in seeing how many images had sold in what quantities, but I used data from my sales pages

If reviewers are unable to see if an image is sold, I think the point made above that this will greatly inconvenience designers when they can't use their design elements again because Canva removed an image they used should prompt Canva to review this deletion policy.

Lee?

« Reply #407 on: February 26, 2015, 21:26 »
-5
Lee,

    Is there some sort of general guidance available about what you do and do not want?  In my (limited) experience what sells seems to be under the general categories of isolations or backgrounds, which makes sense to me given your platform.  Are those what you are mostly looking for or is there something else that is better?  What kinds of images do you definitely not want?  A little guidance about general directions might save us all some time.  Thanks.

(Sorry for asking if this has already been stated some place but I have not seen it)

We want almost everything.  We don't want images with text on them as that's what the Canva editor is for.  We don't want nudity, violence or anything that school teachers wouldn't want their kids seeing.  And isolated images go into a massive and slow cut-out queue, so don't put any extra effort into uploading those.  Otherwise, we're happy to take everything.  :)

I have an image that sold on YOUR SITE 78 times that someone decided to just delete. In fact, in just one month it sold 34 times on your site. Are you going to really tell me your customers think that file is not quality and they dont want it?

There is another agency that has had huge success by paying attention to what its customers want instead of what they think is quality.

Are you guys still deleting images?


Images get deleted for lots of different reasons.  If you're confused, email me the Media ID and I'll give you more info.  I very frequently overturn deletions and approvals (our reviewers are mostly new and we're still refining our policies), but I can't ever make any promises. 

The people doing 'some' of the cleaning up don't see the quantity of sales of an image.  That's not a factor we want to take into consideration.  There are some horrible images that sold many times simply because they were in the collection early, or were at the top of the search results for a certain keyword combination.  So we know some of our customers think those images are good enough.  But part of enabling beautiful design is ensuring our customers get exposed to beautiful images.  You and I know a lot of very weak images get sold in microstock, sometimes many times.  Not all the buyers are so-called "sophisticated buyers" who know a good image from a not-so-good image.  Part of our service, and that of any microstock agency, is image curation - getting the best images in front of the buyers at the right time.  A big part of that is removing the poor images from the collection. 

So yes, I'm going to tell you want you don't want to hear.  Some images that have sold many times are going to be removed.  And again, happy to discuss specific images with you if you email me the Media ID. 

I had an image which most likely was used in a template, it sold like gangbusters in January and it was then deleted.

Same goes for you and everyone else, Ron.  Just email me specifics and I'll take a look.  Sometimes I can overturn the decision, but 78 sales or more won't save a weak image. 

If 78 sales or fewer were the retention criteria, they'd delete all 240 of my images there! And I've checked a couple of times today to see if anything's been deleted, but so far not.

I cut & paste the sales pages into an excel spreadsheet, sorted them in order of download totals and about half have been downloaded, not one of them sold 78 times.

I understand the idea that sales at other agencies aren't something Canva wants to consider, but I'm truly puzzled as to why an image with demonstrable sales on Canva would be removed - unless there were model release, property release or other IP issues (like it's of a cruise ship, or has a visible logo or something that would only fly as editorial).

"...a couple of times today..." ???  Wow, when do you get time to shoot?  ;)  So stoked that we've become this important so quickly. 

The cleanup is happening on two fronts:  the top of the search results for most-searched terms, and contributor by contributor.  If none of yours have been deactivated it's possible that we re-reviewed your portfolio and didn't remove any, but also possible we haven't got to your portfolio just yet. 

But for anyone with a strong portfolio and no missed-at-review isolated shots, you have very little to worry about. 

From what I understand they want pretty images to represent Canva, not ugly images that sell a lot. Beautiful images make beautiful designs.

This.
It must be some kind of mistake if they deleted an image that has had 78 sales...

None of my images at Canva have been deleted yet...and I hope I will not have so many deleted when they will go through my portfolio. This month is BME for me at Canva, I do better there now than most months at SS.

Happy to hear you're doing so well with us.  We'll do what we can to continue the growth.  :)

The single use license must surely mean that buyers often return to purchase the same images for subsequent designs, this makes retropective reviews a buyers nightmare.   Maybe we can expect plenty of ODs at other agencies?

Actually, the single use license does the opposite.  Because there's no financial incentive to use the same image as there is at other agencies, they go looking for different or better images.  In the case where they want to use the same image for continuity across various designs, they're almost always doing the designs all together.  And despite what you may believe reading this thread, we've actually removed a very small quantity of images (less that what we add on a single, typical day). 

And just for clarity, if a customer has already placed an image into a design before the design gets removed, they don't lose the image.  It's still available for purchase via that design, just not available to put into any new designs.  This is mentioned in our Contributor Agreement, which of course you've all read.  ;)

"We have more reviewers coming out of training and starting to work now..."

I have deleted images from my portfolio too, but I don't know which ones exactly. Maybe some of the new reviewers started to work now!  ???
I believe they don't even know how many times an image is sold. AFAIK there's no counter of the sales for the individual images.

You can see them in the Your Portfolio page.  They'll say "Rejected".  We don't display the sale count to the public or to contributors (yet, we will!), but of course we have that information for our own purposes. 

... AFAIK there's no counter of the sales for the individual images.

Not on the site; that's where excel's COUNTIF() function helped me in seeing how many images had sold in what quantities, but I used data from my sales pages

If reviewers are unable to see if an image is sold, I think the point made above that this will greatly inconvenience designers when they can't use their design elements again because Canva removed an image they used should prompt Canva to review this deletion policy.

Lee?

I'm really sorry you have to use spreadsheets and monkeywrench scripts to get the data.  We have great plans for our contributor backend, but it's just difficult to get it to the top of the priority list.  But it is getting closer. 

As I mentioned above, designers aren't inconvenienced if images in their designs get removed.  They can still use them, they just can't add them to other designs.  We actually do think these policies through before they're implemented.  :/


To all, thanks again for the active topic.  We're still chuffed to read such passionate complaints, suggestions and discussion about our business so early after our launch.  We really didn't think we'd become important enough for anyone to care as quickly as this. 

And again, anyone who'd like specific feedback or info about anything to do with their images is welcome to email me directly at any time. 

« Reply #408 on: February 26, 2015, 23:12 »
+2

"...a couple of times today..." ???  Wow, when do you get time to shoot?  ;)  So stoked that we've become this important so quickly. 


:)

What's actually going on - in my case anyway - is that I feel Canva, as a new agency, is in a phase of its development where contributor input can make a difference.

Later on, it won't matter at all/as much what contributors say. I think your business model has a lot of potential and to the extent I can, I'd like to influence the contributor end of things by giving input while that's still possible.

Once you're big and successful, we can happily ignore each other :)

BD

« Reply #409 on: February 26, 2015, 23:20 »
-1

...The people doing 'some' of the cleaning up don't see the quantity of sales of an image.  That's not a factor we want to take into consideration.  There are some horrible images that sold many times simply because they were in the collection early, or were at the top of the search results for a certain keyword combination.  So we know some of our customers think those images are good enough.  But part of enabling beautiful design is ensuring our customers get exposed to beautiful images.  You and I know a lot of very weak images get sold in microstock, sometimes many times.  Not all the buyers are so-called "sophisticated buyers" who know a good image from a not-so-good image.  Part of our service, and that of any microstock agency, is image curation - getting the best images in front of the buyers at the right time.  A big part of that is removing the poor images from the collection... 


That's pretty insulting (to both your contributors and your buyers).

« Reply #410 on: February 27, 2015, 00:52 »
+1
hello Lee, I can't wait to have my portfolio with you, my upload is still waiting your review....

« Reply #411 on: February 27, 2015, 02:19 »
+3
It's a pity that the backlog of the images to be cut out is so massive.  A design service should have a huge amount of cutout images or images on white or black.  As it is now, Canva has LESS images on white/black because they are "being cutout".  But many buyers don't need a cutout image, just an image on white.  So why can Canva not accept all isolated photos, especially the ones with a truly white/black background and replace them, later on, by a cutout version?

« Reply #412 on: February 27, 2015, 03:32 »
+1
Glad to see some of my September/October images being reviewed at last, worth the wait though as this site is really appealing on so many levels for contributors and buyers alike.

One thing that bugs me is I had a fair few Soft Rejects due to being less than 4 megapixels but only because I've cut the images out myself and hence made the images smaller in the process. If I'd left them on a white background to be cut-out in house would they still be rejected? A lot of effort went into changing them to transparent png files.

And not having any confirmation that new uploads have been successful is a bit off putting (even just an update on the Portfolio number would be a big help to assure the uploader they're not just disappearing into the ether) Gives you a psychological push to keep going particularly when reviews are..sporadic.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #413 on: February 27, 2015, 03:36 »
+1
The contributor side is horrible, and they acknowledge that, but there is not much priority to change that. They focus on the buyer side first. I understand that, but its annoying as hell. LOL

« Reply #414 on: February 27, 2015, 03:48 »
0
Yep annoying as hell lol .....but because support (Lee!) has been so supportive through the whole time I've been with them and the fact they must be doing something right on the buyers side as sales are very positive I'm prepared to put up with pretty much anything from Canva (apart from a reduction in royalties  :P)

« Reply #415 on: February 27, 2015, 04:56 »
+5
I don't like inexperienced reviewers guessing what buyers want.  If a buyer can't find what they want, they will go to another site.  So I think sites should accept almost everything.  They can make their site look the way they want it through the search.  Removing images that have sold well or that are likely to sell well costs us and the site time and money, makes no sense to me.

In theory it might be nice to only have a collection of images that fit a sites ethos but who wants to end up like ImageVortex?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #416 on: February 27, 2015, 06:00 »
+1
Are you editing to a US aesthetic only/mainly, or are you also considering international style differences, which can be huge?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 08:21 by ShadySue »

« Reply #417 on: February 27, 2015, 09:13 »
-1

"...a couple of times today..." ???  Wow, when do you get time to shoot?  ;)  So stoked that we've become this important so quickly. 


:)

What's actually going on - in my case anyway - is that I feel Canva, as a new agency, is in a phase of its development where contributor input can make a difference.

Later on, it won't matter at all/as much what contributors say. I think your business model has a lot of potential and to the extent I can, I'd like to influence the contributor end of things by giving input while that's still possible.

Once you're big and successful, we can happily ignore each other :)

Contributors influence new agencies who haven't done proper research.  In Canva's case, that's one of my core functions.  I represent contributor needs in decision-making, including identifying which suggestions we need to ignore.  There's a massive difference between what the top-selling contributors consistently want and what gets requested / suggested in here.  Contributors haven't yet influenced a single policy decision.  The only thing we did in response to contributors was to stop reviewing new submissions while we clear the backlog - a non-permanent decision. 

That being said, we will NEVER ignore our contributors, at least as long as I'm working at the company.  Whether suggestions are already on our roadmap or on the ignore list, I acknowledge them and explain our reasoning.  We view contributors as key partners, and while there's always some that are more trouble than they're worth, we never want anyone to feel that we're ignoring them.  ;)

hello Lee, I can't wait to have my portfolio with you, my upload is still waiting your review....


We're making great progress on the backlog.  Hopefully it won't be too much longer.  Another month or two and we'll be caught up.  Thanks for your patience.  :)

It's a pity that the backlog of the images to be cut out is so massive.  A design service should have a huge amount of cutout images or images on white or black.  As it is now, Canva has LESS images on white/black because they are "being cutout".  But many buyers don't need a cutout image, just an image on white.  So why can Canva not accept all isolated photos, especially the ones with a truly white/black background and replace them, later on, by a cutout version?

It's more complicated than that.  We know a lot of designers could use the isolated-on-white images, but in testing many users who were not professional designers (most of our market) were confused by layering and had trouble using isolated images. The decision to keep isolated images out of the collection was well considered. 

Glad to see some of my September/October images being reviewed at last, worth the wait though as this site is really appealing on so many levels for contributors and buyers alike.

One thing that bugs me is I had a fair few Soft Rejects due to being less than 4 megapixels but only because I've cut the images out myself and hence made the images smaller in the process. If I'd left them on a white background to be cut-out in house would they still be rejected? A lot of effort went into changing them to transparent png files.

And not having any confirmation that new uploads have been successful is a bit off putting (even just an update on the Portfolio number would be a big help to assure the uploader they're not just disappearing into the ether) Gives you a psychological push to keep going particularly when reviews are..sporadic.

Yes, any file that's less than 4 megapixels will be rejected.  I know it's a lot of effort - that's why we're not doing it very fast.  It's super expensive to do well. 

We're working on the ingestion side too.  We know it sucks. 

The contributor side is horrible, and they acknowledge that, but there is not much priority to change that. They focus on the buyer side first. I understand that, but its annoying as hell. LOL

It's annoying as hell for me too as I'm the one who has to field the complaints and deal with all the support required.  But as someone heavily invested in the success of the business, I don't disagree with the priorities.  And as a contributor myself, I also prefer sales to a better back-end. 

I don't like inexperienced reviewers guessing what buyers want.  If a buyer can't find what they want, they will go to another site.  So I think sites should accept almost everything.  They can make their site look the way they want it through the search.  Removing images that have sold well or that are likely to sell well costs us and the site time and money, makes no sense to me.

In theory it might be nice to only have a collection of images that fit a sites ethos but who wants to end up like ImageVortex?

The reviewers don't guess.  They're given very clear and comprehensive guidelines. 

Search optimisation is a big thing.  With Solr or cloudsearch you can get a lot of the way quickly and easily, but to go past that level requires a lot of backend integration and collecting new data points.  We'll always be doing more and more with search, but removing weak images has a massive impact on the quality of search and the customer experience. 

Are you editing to a US aesthetic only/mainly, or are you also considering international style differences, which can be huge?

We're not going that deep.  We're looking primarily at technical quality, with some very basic, generic style factors (like total snapshots with no production). 


Thanks again all!!

« Reply #418 on: February 27, 2015, 09:27 »
+3
Is there an easy way to see rejections?  I don't want to have click through 84 pages of portfolio to find them.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #419 on: February 27, 2015, 09:44 »
0
Is there an easy way to see rejections?  I don't want to have click through 84 pages of portfolio to find them.
No, its a simple filter, would take a 12 yr old wizkid 3 minutes to code.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #420 on: February 27, 2015, 09:50 »
0
Hmm, I guess we there are no top-selling contributors in this thread then. Thanks for the sympathy though, and for responding to us simple pain-in-the-arses.  ;)

« Reply #421 on: February 27, 2015, 11:46 »
+6
I guess we've been told. I won't bother Canva with any more suggestions or comments as they apparently don't need or want them.

« Reply #422 on: February 27, 2015, 12:49 »
+2
I think the most important is to give breath to Canva to build a good "stock face" with valuable selection which to attract more customers. I have no problem if they'll take just one image of my collection. This is their shop with their shelves and they are free to select what to put on sale there.
Do not worry about rejections, if one image is rejected from one agency this image can be accepted in other agency, if this image is not accepted nowhere the problem is in this particular image. If one image have sales in Canva and then is removed from sale, because of the whole Canva's face and strategy not worry, because this will bring you more sales on your other images in Canva. Just to believe them.

I hope with my English to succeed to explain what I mean :)
Good luck to all!

Semmick Photo

« Reply #423 on: February 27, 2015, 13:06 »
+6
I have two gripes with this whole rejecting images in hindsight thing:

1. Communication beforehand about deleting my images would be highly appreciated. This is not personal, but feedback for Canva. It would have been nice to be kept in the loop before images are deleted from my portfolio.
 
2. Thanks for being a beautiful Beta user. I submitted my content to help a start-up, but I am not confident that love is mutual. Now it feels like "Thanks for being a beta user, but your original content that helped us on our way is no longer needed". That message stings a bit now. SS also maintains a higher standard then when they started out, but they dont go deleting images either.

Thats all. I will get over myself, no worries. I just like to vent every now and then :P

Hoping to get my sales back by submitting better content.

« Reply #424 on: February 27, 2015, 13:07 »
0
So can you submit jpg to Canva or do they have to be png? If I cut out my images will that bump up my review time and placement in the library?


 

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