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Author Topic: Dissolve price update  (Read 30872 times)

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« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2015, 15:11 »
+4
As more and more contributors join the ranks of the thousands of others already producing stock footage, prices will inevitably drop. I personally feel were beginning to witness prices slowly starting to creep in the downward direction. Please, Dissolve, dont help escalate this process.


« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2015, 15:29 »
+3
Well thank god they dont seem to feel threatened by videohive/envato (yet).They sell hd for 7.5usd there.

Oh man, thanks for bringing that up. Now we'll get an email saying the price will be matched to $7.50 :)

I just don't see what this is telling their customers. Are they so insecure with their own business that they have to immediately change prices to a competitor?
I mean Shutterstock selling at $79, Dissolve $80 so they reduce $1.00?
That $1.00 made all the difference in your bottom line profits?

Haha yeah sometimes my amazing powers capable to instantly destroy business of millions in revenue by simply posting a suggestion at a forum astounds even me.

But joking aside i noticed this -1 price drop.What a pretentious way to legitimize their so called rational market pricing announcement.
They could of course have averaged this amount to 59-69 by taking into account that there are also a few more agencies with varying prices.They literally gave themselves away with this 49usd drop.

At this point im scared not because of the loss of income but because they might literally have no idea whatsoever what they are doing.
At least i hope they realize that to compete in this business you not only need to have competitive prices,but contributors who are willing to compete FOR them.

Looks like they are making a bet here.Who knows.Maybe we are all more desperate that we thought,or maybe not.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 15:35 by gcrook »

« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2015, 15:50 »
+10
What really makes me angry is I actually make an effort NOT to sell on ripoff agencies. I quite iStock when they lowered their prices. I deleted everything off of FT because of ridiculously low prices. I maintain my prices at $75 or higher for everything I have on P5 and now my only low ball site, WHO IS RUINING IT FOR ME, is Dissolve.

Sorry guys, but in my world, Dissolve is now the problem, not someone else. YOU folks are messing things up. The YOU being dissolve.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 08:20 by Zeus »

« Reply #103 on: July 31, 2015, 21:33 »
+7
I think the first thing Dissolve should address is making a decent contributor interface, with sales details, balance, etc. Dissolve is the only agency that doesn't have this type of resource for contributors yet they still feel the need to take 70% and begin a price war.

« Reply #104 on: July 31, 2015, 22:48 »
+1
I'm not sure why individual pricing set by the contributor isn't allowed.

« Reply #105 on: July 31, 2015, 22:52 »
+14
It seems a lot of people missed the message between the lines...

Shutterstock and other sites continue to successfully sell at higher prices because they provide a superior product.  Dissolve cannot provide a similarly superior product experience for buyers, therefore they are going down the discount pricing street.

I should also point out that Dissolve made certain promises to producers in order to build their library and they are now going back on those promises.  Not a court in the land that would let any contract between them and a submitter stand when they broke the contract themselves.

Pond5 and Shutterstock are the biggest sellers for most producers because they don't (or very rarely) screw over the people who feed them content.  You can see sites like iStock going downhill because of crap like this that they've pulled.  Is THAT REALLY the model Dissolve wants to follow?

You're taking 70% of someone else's hard work.  The reason why most producers put up with that is because they believe that money will go towards marketing, customer service and the things that attract buyers.  What it sounds like is that you don't know how to compete, so you're starting the process of cashing out.

« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2015, 06:55 »
+2
It seems a lot of people missed the message between the lines...

Shutterstock and other sites continue to successfully sell at higher prices because they provide a superior product.  Dissolve cannot provide a similarly superior product experience for buyers, therefore they are going down the discount pricing street.


How do you define inferior product?You mean contributors uploading their "b-rated" stuff because they are feeding their good stuff to other agencies?Or perhaps that dissolve offers lower quality service to buyers?No i dont think so,it seems they have been treating their buyers better than anyone by making further discounts,offering unwatermarked clips from them to "test" and who knows what else.
Perhaps what you say is true but even those who have uploaded "test" clips do report constant growth of sales including me,at a level that i didnt think possible.My view is that dissolve has been growing continuously (have hinted off record,at least thats what i made out of it) and their collection and quality of clips is growing.
So if what you say doesnt apply?
What then?

« Reply #107 on: August 01, 2015, 07:12 »
+4
How do you define inferior product?

I define it as NOT providing buyers with the same features and services that other agencies do.

Shutterstock offers a paid service for their agents locating media.  So, if I don't have time to do the research on clips for a project, I can pay them to do it.  And they do a GREAT job of it.  Pond5, for certain clients, will do the same thing for free.

The shopping experience on other sites is also quicker and easier.  It's obvious from the lack of activity on the back end that Dissolve does not have a solid developer working for them... I'd guess they bid the site out to the lowest bidder from a third-world country.

Although, they did pay a top-rate "designer" because the site sure does look pretty.

« Reply #108 on: August 01, 2015, 07:18 »
+9
Here's what I see from my vantage point...

I had the opportunity to speak with them at NAB this year and they talked a big game and made all kinds of "promises".  They "sounded" like they had their act together.  But clearly, from this move, they do not.

A lot of agencies have sprouted offering all kinds of promises and then going back on those promises when they felt the need.  And most of those agencies are gone now.  This type of move by Dissolve signals that path for their business.  They are starting to discount clips to build a lot of cash for when they shut down.

I expect them to completely deny it, and they may even be just making a bad business decision that they'll realize at some point and fix.  But this move clearly is a major erosion of TRUST between contributors and Dissolve.  It leads me to believe that they do not have a solid business plan and are reacting when they should be WORKING to improve their site, which they clearly HAVE NOT done.

« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2015, 08:25 »
+2
Here's what I see from my vantage point...

I had the opportunity to speak with them at NAB this year and they talked a big game and made all kinds of "promises".  They "sounded" like they had their act together.  But clearly, from this move, they do not.

A lot of agencies have sprouted offering all kinds of promises and then going back on those promises when they felt the need.  And most of those agencies are gone now.  This type of move by Dissolve signals that path for their business.  They are starting to discount clips to build a lot of cash for when they shut down.

I expect them to completely deny it, and they may even be just making a bad business decision that they'll realize at some point and fix.  But this move clearly is a major erosion of TRUST between contributors and Dissolve.  It leads me to believe that they do not have a solid business plan and are reacting when they should be WORKING to improve their site, which they clearly HAVE NOT done.

I believe that this is the case, or something along these lines. They have effectively choked off new content from these decisions, at least from some. Perhaps they expect to keep milking as long as oblivious contributors keep providing content.  Really, how many contributors actually took the time to understand what those two price cut emails meant to them? Like DPC, many keep pumping in content.  I suspect they knew people would stop providing content, like me, for example.  I have 100 new 4K videos right now that I am prepping to upload, but not to them. So in my opinion:

1. They are trying to pump up cash through temporary frequency of downloads, lower price per clip (as opposed to less DL's but higher revenue per clip) before shutting down

or

2. They are planning to survive from un-informed contributors and adjust from there.

I also don't believe that this is the end of "more announcements". 

It's unfortunate that they have gone the route they did.

« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2015, 08:26 »
+5


Pond5 and Shutterstock are the biggest sellers for most producers because they don't (or very rarely) screw over the people who feed them content.  You can see sites like iStock going downhill because of crap like this that they've pulled.  Is THAT REALLY the model Dissolve wants to follow?


I think the folks at Dissolve need to read this, print it out, paste it on the foreheads of every owner and employee at their office, have someone scribble it on the urinal walls, print it on the office coffee mugs.

Really, no one, except maybe someone's sister-in-law is going to go exclusive with a startup that flinches.

« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2015, 08:27 »
0


Pond5 and Shutterstock are the biggest sellers for most producers because they don't (or very rarely) screw over the people who feed them content.  You can see sites like iStock going downhill because of crap like this that they've pulled.  Is THAT REALLY the model Dissolve wants to follow?


I think the folks at Dissolve need to read this, print it out, paste it on the foreheads of every owner and employee at their office, have someone scribble it on the urinal walls, print it on the office coffee mugs.

Really, no one, except maybe someone's sister-in-law is going to go exclusive with a startup that flinches.

+100

Daisy

« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2015, 08:42 »
+2
In an earlier thread George Georgeadis from Dissolve stated:

Hello from Dissolve!

My name is George Georgeadis and I am a filmmaker/storyteller and the product manager here at Dissolve. I work directly with our contributors and I am beyond excited to introduce myself and Dissolve to you.

Dissolve is a new stock footage website by some of the founders and original creative minds behind Veer and iStock. We are 100% focused on selling footage and specializing in supporting the unique needs of footage buyers around the world.

We are looking to work with contributors that are as passionate about stock footage as we are. We believe that footage is at the heart of great storytelling and we are inspired by the work of this creative community.

I am not only a part the Dissolve team, but also a filmmaker and an exclusive stock producer for Dissolve, so I would like to encourage you to ask me any questions you have about Dissolve, about shooting footage, how to become a part of the Dissolve family or anything else you want to know.

We are happy to be on MicrostockGroup to start a dialogue about all things stock footage, and to invite you to become a contributor. Looking forward to meeting you all!



Somewhere along the line that contributor respect has been either forgotten or didn't exist in the first place.

This new policy has not been thought through. Each time we change a price on P5 we must email Dissolve and tell them - Are they serious?

« Reply #113 on: August 01, 2015, 08:45 »
+2
In an earlier thread George Georgeadis from Dissolve stated:

Hello from Dissolve!

My name is George Georgeadis and I am a filmmaker/storyteller and the product manager here at Dissolve. I work directly with our contributors and I am beyond excited to introduce myself and Dissolve to you.

Dissolve is a new stock footage website by some of the founders and original creative minds behind Veer and iStock. We are 100% focused on selling footage and specializing in supporting the unique needs of footage buyers around the world.

We are looking to work with contributors that are as passionate about stock footage as we are. We believe that footage is at the heart of great storytelling and we are inspired by the work of this creative community.

I am not only a part the Dissolve team, but also a filmmaker and an exclusive stock producer for Dissolve, so I would like to encourage you to ask me any questions you have about Dissolve, about shooting footage, how to become a part of the Dissolve family or anything else you want to know.

We are happy to be on MicrostockGroup to start a dialogue about all things stock footage, and to invite you to become a contributor. Looking forward to meeting you all!



Somewhere along the line that contributor respect has been either forgotten or didn't exist in the first place.

This new policy has not been thought through. Each time we change a price on P5 we must email Dissolve and tell them - Are they serious?

I am not obligated to tell them anything and I won't. If they then choose to price my content at whatever, I can't stop them.  But I am done with anything DISSOLVE.

« Reply #114 on: August 01, 2015, 09:41 »
+2
And who is signing up anywhere these days exclusively? WOW talk about putting all your eggs in one small basket.
It has to be people that are new to this business.

I have about 1300 uploaded out of my 5400 clip portfolio. Glad this happened now instead of when I had all of them uploaded.

« Reply #115 on: August 01, 2015, 10:07 »
+3
My opinion is that somewhere along the lines dissolve started to believe that their bond between them and their contributors was so strong that they could get away with anything and always have a strong and loyal base of people/contributors/supporters (all these together) which will continuously grow.

It's as if they themselves fell for this whole hybrid notion of community/business that they are publicly advertising.
And finally it takes a little bit of greed,a great deal of self confidence,and the notion that the "market" is an abstract sense with its own laws completely different or devoid of social values.

Clearly,these fantacies usually break down hard and fast,as demonstrated.
2 days ago i considered them a legitimate replacement for ss (which is a BIG thing to say).Today i consider them another istock,a place that i wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole.
Dont know what they will do from this point on but trust is a thing that once broken...well you know the rest.

EDIT:Just reading this again i realized that it almost reads as if dissolve is already dead and buried.What a huge mistake they have made to force people to react like this.it would be a true accomplishment what they have done here (but in reverse) ...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 10:29 by gcrook »

Daisy

« Reply #116 on: August 01, 2015, 10:30 »
+4
They're obviously obsessed with their own self importance. Telling us to contact them whenever we make a price change elsewhere. The sheer arrogance is astounding.

« Reply #117 on: August 01, 2015, 11:25 »
+1
They're obviously obsessed with their own self importance. Telling us to contact them whenever we make a price change elsewhere. The sheer arrogance is astounding.
I guess the question then is, if I decide to increase the asking price at P5 to something like $150 or $ 350 for a series of clips, will Dissolve follow? It has to work both ways.

« Reply #118 on: August 01, 2015, 11:43 »
+1
They're obviously obsessed with their own self importance. Telling us to contact them whenever we make a price change elsewhere. The sheer arrogance is astounding.
I guess the question then is, if I decide to increase the asking price at P5 to something like $150 or $ 350 for a series of clips, will Dissolve follow? It has to work both ways.

If you dont contibute to ss, or anywhere else, then they should.Which makes this "matching prices argument" so hypocritical,because who contributes only to dissolve and not at least to ss and p5,not to mention all the rest?
But the thing is this.Even if there are people out there who fulfill the requirements,how absurd is it to force non-exclusives to promise that they will -as long as they contribute at dissolve- keep their prices exactly the same everywhere?
Impossible not to mention out of context.
Does dissolve even realize that they weren't the ones who invented microstock?

« Reply #119 on: August 01, 2015, 12:30 »
0
They're obviously obsessed with their own self importance. Telling us to contact them whenever we make a price change elsewhere. The sheer arrogance is astounding.
I guess the question then is, if I decide to increase the asking price at P5 to something like $150 or $ 350 for a series of clips, will Dissolve follow? It has to work both ways.

No, they will only price match to the lower amount.

« Reply #120 on: August 01, 2015, 12:39 »
+8
So lets imagine this for example.

Let's suppose that Aaron or any dissolve representative came out 2 days ago speaking like a person and not like a robot from the 90's and announced the following (which belongs in the sphere of imagination,but just for the sake of argument)

Dear dissolve contributors,lovers,brothers,lurkers,and casual bystanders.We have realized that we have to compete in price because..yada yada,corporate greed 101...yada yada...marketing 101 etc,that we need to price hd at 59usd for all non-exclusive portfolios because of all the aforementioned yada's.But at the same time we will raise hd commission at 40% so that our beloved contributors will earn the same royalties as before.
We will also run bulk discounts shutterstock style whenever necessary (big clients,corporations etc) but we will maintain the 40% commission for you like pond5 does in discounts (and ss doesnt).
We will also implement a true contributor console where you can not only do whatever everyone else is also capable of doing in most of the other agencies but send us feedback on uploads and help us communicate so that we can fix curation and other mistakes fast and efficiently etc etc.

Would it be so difficult for them to go that route?
Would it be cost prohibitive?
Would they lose contributors?
Would they grow as an agency?
Would they set a paradigm that would make people forget about all the others and focus on them?
Would it.......(fill in the blanks)

Then why?
Because the "markets" i guess.
Well, there you go.

« Reply #121 on: August 01, 2015, 12:44 »
+2
They're obviously obsessed with their own self importance. Telling us to contact them whenever we make a price change elsewhere. The sheer arrogance is astounding.
I guess the question then is, if I decide to increase the asking price at P5 to something like $150 or $ 350 for a series of clips, will Dissolve follow? It has to work both ways.

No, they will only price match to the lower amount.
Which would of course give them an edge for the price sensitive shopper.

FWIW, there are several clips I have on both P5 and SS and the ones on P5 are priced  somewhat higher, $100 to $150 range and they sell on P5.

« Reply #122 on: August 01, 2015, 12:46 »
+1
So lets imagine this for example.

Let's suppose that Aaron or any dissolve representative came out 2 days ago speaking like a person and not like a robot from the 90's and announced the following (which belongs in the sphere of imagination,but just for the sake of argument)

Dear dissolve contributors,lovers,brothers,lurkers,and casual bystanders.We have realized that we have to compete in price because..yada yada,corporate greed 101...yada yada...marketing 101 etc,that we need to price hd at 59usd for all non-exclusive portfolios because of all the aforementioned yada's.But at the same time we will raise hd commission at 40% so that our beloved contributors will earn the same royalties as before.
We will also run bulk discounts shutterstock style whenever necessary (big clients,corporations etc) but we will maintain the 40% commission for you like pond5 does in discounts (and ss doesn't).
We will also implement a true contributor console where you can not only do whatever everyone else is also capable of doing in most of the other agencies but send us feedback on uploads and help us communicate so that we can fix curation and other mistakes fast and efficiently etc etc.

Would it be so difficult for them to go that route?
Would it be cost prohibitive?
Would they lose contributors?
Would they grow as an agency?
Would they set a paradigm that would make people forget about all the others and focus on them?
Would it.......(fill in the blanks)

Then why?
Because the "markets" i guess.
Well, there you go.

Nicely said

« Reply #123 on: August 02, 2015, 03:01 »
+4
So lets imagine this for example.

Let's suppose that Aaron or any dissolve representative came out 2 days ago speaking like a person and not like a robot from the 90's and announced the following (which belongs in the sphere of imagination,but just for the sake of argument)

Dear dissolve contributors,lovers,brothers,lurkers,and casual bystanders.We have realized that we have to compete in price because..yada yada,corporate greed 101...yada yada...marketing 101 etc,that we need to price hd at 59usd for all non-exclusive portfolios because of all the aforementioned yada's.But at the same time we will raise hd commission at 40% so that our beloved contributors will earn the same royalties as before.
We will also run bulk discounts shutterstock style whenever necessary (big clients,corporations etc) but we will maintain the 40% commission for you like pond5 does in discounts (and ss doesnt).
We will also implement a true contributor console where you can not only do whatever everyone else is also capable of doing in most of the other agencies but send us feedback on uploads and help us communicate so that we can fix curation and other mistakes fast and efficiently etc etc.

Would it be so difficult for them to go that route?
Would it be cost prohibitive?
Would they lose contributors?
Would they grow as an agency?
Would they set a paradigm that would make people forget about all the others and focus on them?
Would it.......(fill in the blanks)

Then why?
Because the "markets" i guess.
Well, there you go.


Even in this scenario I wouldn't license my footage through them. In the market at the moment we have 3 main agencies - SS, P5 and iStock/Getty. VideoBlocks seems to be the up-and-coming agency with a unique model.

Many non-exclusives tolerate selling at 30% through SS because the return to them for most sales is somewhere in the order of $20-25 with some sales for significantly more. They don't particularly like the 30%, but the sheer volume of buyers makes it a hard place not to sell for non-exclusives. On top of that SS have a track record of consistency.

While there's some negative posters lately here making noise about Pond5, they're generally accepted as a very good agency for video sales. The ability to set your own prices and a 50% royalty is pretty unique in the industry, as is the practice of offering periodically discounts to customers without cutting into the contributors share of the price. They're also probably the only agency that has bought another microstock and increased that agency's royalties to 50%.

Videoblocks seems to be getting a lot of attention lately, and is almost certainly the reason for this change - the $49 price point is no co-incidence. From a contributor perspective though its a model that has potential to be very lucrative. Its early days though and they may end up also being one of the many agencies that don't succeed in this business. What will obviously concern Dissolve is that VideoBlocks is attracting new contributors at a much faster rate than they are. From my searches, it looks like they already have more 4K footage than Dissolve in a much shorter space of time.

Its worth re-reading what Dissolve posted just over 12 months ago about commissions (and the response): http://www.microstockgroup.com/dissolve/introducing-dissolve/msg386463/#msg386463

"When a contributor signs with Dissolve, their royalties are set for the duration of the contract. So, no need to fear of rates reducing after youve signed on."

Where there's a will, there's a way.


Didn't take long did it?






« Reply #124 on: August 02, 2015, 03:31 »
0
So lets imagine this for example.

Let's suppose that Aaron or any dissolve representative came out 2 days ago speaking like a person and not like a robot from the 90's and announced the following (which belongs in the sphere of imagination,but just for the sake of argument)

Dear dissolve contributors,lovers,brothers,lurkers,and casual bystanders.We have realized that we have to compete in price because..yada yada,corporate greed 101...yada yada...marketing 101 etc,that we need to price hd at 59usd for all non-exclusive portfolios because of all the aforementioned yada's.But at the same time we will raise hd commission at 40% so that our beloved contributors will earn the same royalties as before.
We will also run bulk discounts shutterstock style whenever necessary (big clients,corporations etc) but we will maintain the 40% commission for you like pond5 does in discounts (and ss doesnt).
We will also implement a true contributor console where you can not only do whatever everyone else is also capable of doing in most of the other agencies but send us feedback on uploads and help us communicate so that we can fix curation and other mistakes fast and efficiently etc etc.

Would it be so difficult for them to go that route?
Would it be cost prohibitive?
Would they lose contributors?
Would they grow as an agency?
Would they set a paradigm that would make people forget about all the others and focus on them?
Would it.......(fill in the blanks)

Then why?
Because the "markets" i guess.
Well, there you go.


Even in this scenario I wouldn't license my footage through them. In the market at the moment we have 3 main agencies - SS, P5 and iStock/Getty. VideoBlocks seems to be the up-and-coming agency with a unique model.

Many non-exclusives tolerate selling at 30% through SS because the return to them for most sales is somewhere in the order of $20-25 with some sales for significantly more. They don't particularly like the 30%, but the sheer volume of buyers makes it a hard place not to sell for non-exclusives. On top of that SS have a track record of consistency.

While there's some negative posters lately here making noise about Pond5, they're generally accepted as a very good agency for video sales. The ability to set your own prices and a 50% royalty is pretty unique in the industry, as is the practice of offering periodically discounts to customers without cutting into the contributors share of the price. They're also probably the only agency that has bought another microstock and increased that agency's royalties to 50%.

Videoblocks seems to be getting a lot of attention lately, and is almost certainly the reason for this change - the $49 price point is no co-incidence. From a contributor perspective though its a model that has potential to be very lucrative. Its early days though and they may end up also being one of the many agencies that don't succeed in this business. What will obviously concern Dissolve is that VideoBlocks is attracting new contributors at a much faster rate than they are. From my searches, it looks like they already have more 4K footage than Dissolve in a much shorter space of time.

Its worth re-reading what Dissolve posted just over 12 months ago about commissions (and the response): http://www.microstockgroup.com/dissolve/introducing-dissolve/msg386463/#msg386463

"When a contributor signs with Dissolve, their royalties are set for the duration of the contract. So, no need to fear of rates reducing after youve signed on."

Where there's a will, there's a way.


Didn't take long did it?


Yes you are correct.
I never had the illusion that this scenario would make them top agency in this business,or "change the world" if you may.
It would still consider this  borderline theft,but for most it would be more than acceptable and rightly so.

But what this scenario would do,and thats where i think that you underestimate the context of such an announcement, is it would make every other agency who always tights the screws on their contributors but not on themselves (quite the opposite in fact) look like complete and utter clowns.
You would have a representative speaking in public like a person for once and not like a robot,and you would show in practice that you understand the prevailing notion that is apparent today
which is described along the lines of "what a load of bullcrap another agency screwing us over spouting pretentious stuff about markets and economies etc"
I find great power in examples like these even if it's a lesser evil in a sense.
I dont dream of a utopic world,but dissipating the illusion of hard pragmatism in public is a hobby of mine that i like to practice.

EDIT:You mentioned videoblocks.If thy succeed it will be for one and only reason.Because as long as they keep this model they will have people backing them up no matter what.Everyone i know uploaded FULL PORTS there not even test clips,and we are talking about an agency that noone knows exactly what it is and where it came from.Dissolve has been around for 2 years and we know that they make sales, and people still test clips there (well after all this noone will propably upload anything anymore).Do you see what i mean?There is power in that having the people by your side.Look at this thread.Dissolve became the "Darth vader" of stock overnight to the point that people started cheering in this thread for videoblocks.Needless to say im uploading everything there despite my concerns.Dissolve should pay attention to this paradigm although it might be too late for them now.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 03:42 by gcrook »


 

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