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Author Topic: "Confidential" email from Dreamstime  (Read 39946 times)

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Goofy

« Reply #100 on: May 28, 2014, 17:56 »
+1
I do wonder why Dreamstime doesn't just use their own free stock photo site for this "small scale" testing.

http://www.stockfreeimages.com/ has almost a million images to test.


because they won't sell  8)



« Reply #101 on: May 28, 2014, 18:24 »
+3
If its just a beta test why wouldn't watermarked pics work?   If exposure is so great then watermarks will get more of it.

Isn't another meaning of exposure to be left out in the cold?  Maybe that's the kind of exposure they mean for us?

« Reply #102 on: May 28, 2014, 18:28 »
+13
...To me, fairness means those who are willing to support an initiative like this should be the first (maybe even only) contributors to benefit from it.

This is muddled thinking. How will a buyer benefit if only a tiny handful of images (those of the loyal few who would happily give away their work) is available in the final program?

If DT wants to experiment, they should pay - perhaps a sub royalty which isn't much per image - or use their free collection.

Fairness would have us all still with a 50% royalty as DT started out with, not some club you can only get into by giving your work away, but we clearly differ on what's fair and to whom.

« Reply #103 on: May 28, 2014, 19:03 »
0
Not sure it will matter sales wise, to me anyway.  I just checked about half of the images they selected from my portfolio and only two had ever sold.  I didn't bother checking the rest.  I wonder what the selection criteria was?  Random numbers?

Rinderart

« Reply #104 on: May 28, 2014, 19:30 »
+3

What the f-- is going on with these companies. As if it's not bad enough when someone comes along and wants to sell our work for a buck and offer pennies, now we're down to "free". Great.

Some days I really feel like I could just walk away from this whole mess of a business and be pretty ok with that decision.

I hear ya Mike.

Microstock Man

  • microstockman.com

« Reply #105 on: May 28, 2014, 19:30 »
+1
DT - Please at least tell us how long the trial will be for? I can't see how this piece of information could be so super confidential that it would jeopardise the test. But it is crucial for contributors to know how long they will be giving away their images for free.

EmberMike

« Reply #106 on: May 28, 2014, 19:53 »
+2

What the f-- is going on with these companies. As if it's not bad enough when someone comes along and wants to sell our work for a buck and offer pennies, now we're down to "free". Great.

Some days I really feel like I could just walk away from this whole mess of a business and be pretty ok with that decision.

I hear ya Mike.

I'm starting to wonder if Lisa was right and I'm wrong. Maybe this whole thing really is already over and it doesn't matter what we do. Might as well just grab whatever we can get out of it before it goes under completely. Or speed it along and let it burn up faster and hope that something better rises up in place of it.

Not sure I'm totally there yet, but the thought has crossed my mind today.

« Reply #107 on: May 28, 2014, 19:54 »
-1
Completely random set of images they picked of mine. There's no pattern between them at all. Oh well. I'll see what happens for now. Nothing to loose with the ones they picked :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2014, 20:07 »
+6
I opted out too.....

They just want the images free to test in Beta.... lol. I have seen sites stay in beta for years..... Not no, but HELL NO!

« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2014, 20:58 »
+7
Opted out from this exciting program

« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2014, 21:04 »
+11
I'm starting to wonder if Lisa was right and I'm wrong. Maybe this whole thing really is already over and it doesn't matter what we do. Might as well just grab whatever we can get out of it before it goes under completely. Or speed it along and let it burn up faster and hope that something better rises up in place of it.

Not sure I'm totally there yet, but the thought has crossed my mind today.

I don't buy it.  The bad deals at iStock and Fotolia both look like leveraged buyout deals gone bad, as they generally go.  Both are overloaded with debt to pay off their investors, so they look to screw their suppliers to make up the difference.

This Dreamstime deal feels different to me, maybe because we really don't know anything about it.  It feels unfinished, like they have the basics figured out but don't know yet about pricing or what the customer uptake will be.  So they want to run a trial or a series of trials to figure out what works.  The problem is that they want to keep it all secret, and they want someone else (i.e. us) to help them keep expenses down (i.e. to zero).  Once the trials are over and we hear the specifics, we may decide that it's a good deal, or at least not a bad one.  The problem is with the here and now.

If I were Serban, I would have offered us something for our participation, like an extra 10% royalty over what everybody else gets when it goes live.  That's an incentive to jump in now, and it won't cost them anything until they know it's ready for prime time.  Heck, they could make the extra royalty a limited time thing, say for the first year.  At least we'd have a chance to gain, rather than giving away our work with a hint that we might get something someday.

Think of this as more like Shutterstock's deal with Facebook, which hasn't made me very much but isn't costing me either.  Maybe it's not the cosmic screwing of Google Drive or DPC.  Of course, I could be wrong...

« Reply #111 on: May 28, 2014, 21:24 »
+4
I'm starting to wonder if Lisa was right and I'm wrong. Maybe this whole thing really is already over and it doesn't matter what we do. Might as well just grab whatever we can get out of it before it goes under completely. Or speed it along and let it burn up faster and hope that something better rises up in place of it.

Not sure I'm totally there yet, but the thought has crossed my mind today.

Welcome to the dark side.  ;)

I do kind of wonder if it is good news or bad news sometimes when part of me thinks the whole thing could or maybe even should burn down.

« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2014, 21:56 »
0
As said I deleted the images of mine they targeted. If they want to market their site then fine, do it. But not by giving away my images for free (especially when they are on other sites at the same time) :(

EmberMike

« Reply #113 on: May 28, 2014, 22:24 »
+1
Welcome to the dark side.  ;)

I do kind of wonder if it is good news or bad news sometimes when part of me thinks the whole thing could or maybe even should burn down.

I have to say, the dark side seems a little less stressful. Taking on a, "Screw it, let it burn," attitude is sort of therapeutic. :)


« Reply #114 on: May 28, 2014, 22:49 »
+13
In 2005, Dreamstime was the first site where I made enough for a payout. I remember wondering if this microstock thing was for real and if I could trust them and whether they would really send me real money. They did, and they have never given me personally any reason to distrust them in the nine years I have done business with them.

Some of the posts here seem a little over the top. Do people here really believe Serban is a "crook"? I have always admired his success and the way he runs his business. I hope this beta test works and I make some money from the ensuing deal. In the meantime, I don't mind if 154 of my images (out of 2229) are used in a limited trial and I don't get paid if the deal fails to materialize. My images aren't gold or diamonds or the cure for cancer. They are just clipart. If you hate DT, leave. If you don't want to participate in the beta test, then don't. It was just an invitation. Not the end of the world.

« Reply #115 on: May 28, 2014, 22:52 »
+16
Like many of you, I was an early adopter of DT.  At one time we were equals - then the royalties were adjusted so they come out earning more, but overall - my income was growing.

Through all these years I have never had one of my hissy fits over DT.  I believe in them.  I like them, Serban and Tangie and the real people running the show.  I have always rooted for them (if that is too English - cheered for, hope they do well).

In the meantime I have loudly quit IS, 123, Deposit Photos and just barely hanging onto FT by the skin of my teeth.  I was early adopters of them too but they are pretty clear about the level of respect for the owners of the 30 million plus units they flog as their own.

I'm pretty certain if DT had asked for help even two years ago I would have been proud to comply.   Maybe even if they hadn't thrown "confidential" and "no compensation" in the same missive.  Now I am jaded, bitter, angry with and distrustful of all the distributors (although I still hold DT and SS in quite high regard.) so I'm sorry DT, but you are a little too late with this ambiguous offer.

At one time we were 50/50 partners but now DT earns more than I.  It is simply outrageous for a company of it's size to ask for help.  When I am doing research and development, I don't go to vendors and manufactures and ask for parts for free.  I pay for all my own R&D.  Some of it flies some of it falters - that is why it is R&D.  It is mind blowing that they have gone so far from their origins and think that a digital file has no value.  Why is it different from a widget?  It costs to manufacture a photo just like it costs to manufacture a widget.  To make it worse, a widget goes into a door of a car or wherever and stays there... the word free associated with digital content leads one to feel... well lost forever/out there/abused.

If this was any other industry where they really really needed free widgets - they would have to offer the manufacturers a stake in the company.  But that's the last thing any of these agencies would want.  Shareholders that are also photographers.

They are not yet on my sh*t list, at least they didn't tell us after the fact. 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 22:57 by Pixart »

« Reply #116 on: May 28, 2014, 23:08 »
+8
Let's all take a breath...

The email said "small scale beta test program."

When anything in the IT world is being rolled out it gets beta tested to a small group before it goes to the masses.  And typically the people beta testing the software do not pay for it. 

This is an evaluation period.  Picture an ice cream supplier giving one of those tiny taster spoons to the food buyer at Wal-Mart.  The supplier isn't going to ask Mr. Purchasing Executive to pony up a quarter before he gets his taste.  The supplier knows that if Wal-Mart likes what it tastes, it could result in an enormous, game-changing order.

I believe in DT.  They have been good to me over the years (and of course, I have been good to them.)  If this came from an agency I believe is shady, I would take a skeptical view of this. 

DT has a BIG fish on the line, trying to reel it in and create an potentially enormous payday for all of us.  Think for a moment before you try to cut that line.

As for me, DT selected a HUGE amount of my images to run in this test, and I'm ALL IN.

The rest of you can demand your quarter for the taster spoon.

Love your optimism but unfortunately you obviously weren't around when we had similar breathless requests to "donate" free images for similar schemes at IS and FT.

Those were supposedly "for a limited time" too ... but the images in question were still available for free download years later (and also had registered hundreds of thousands of 'sales').

Nothing for contributors ever came of either scheme. The 'big fish' used its power to get the free images but never actually signed up for the big deal.

Good luck with giving your images away for free in anticipation of a big pay-day later. If I were a Nigerian prince I'd be emailing you some great offers that would make you even more money.

« Reply #117 on: May 28, 2014, 23:18 »
0
Let's see how it goes. I am in favour of trying this deal. I agree with michaeldb. We have to try something to call it failure.  I learnt my lessons that examine the opinion of masses very carefully. Lets try this deal. Yes, I got this invitation with image ids. Best of Luck DT. I am with you. Go ahead.

Rinderart

« Reply #118 on: May 28, 2014, 23:31 »
+53
A personal Note to Achilles...

My friend I've been with you since day one But...The time has come to tell you and anyone else reading and listening to whats going on lately has to Know.....

Achilles....Without us, You and your site is dead and I mean dead. You and the other sites biggest issue is , You and others still after all this time have no clue or respect for what we go through to give you our hearts and soul through our work, The time and Money we invest in supplying you with your income and vast income. We own everything...You and all the other sites own Nothing But server space and some furniture. The sooner you and all the other greedy sites realize this the better off you will be going forward. FT set off a firestorm and It's about time, I've been saying since 2006 we have to unite and we Finally are.

This is not going to stop and I prey it doesn't. This crap cannot go on and I will spend whatever time it takes to alarm everyone about the continuing injustice we have been through.


If any site cannot make a decent profit with product they don't make themselves at a 50/50 split from every dollar then maybe it's time to do something else.


The Gravy train is over my Old friend, We are starting to rise up and I Prey we don't stop....Is it to late? well ya. We were lazy and let this happen. But Im afraid FT and now you have awoken a sleeping Giant and Thank God it's about time.

Ya better hear this Achilles and Oleg and Jon. Those of us that do the work, Invest in our craft deserve more. There is no creative agency anywhere that takes more than 50% of any artists work.

You can spin this anyway you want, and this message is not about your new test program...it's about Our future, Not the gullible newbies that are happy getting 20 cents or whatever....You want to target them Like the others? Go for it.

245,000 Images are new just this week on SS. WHY?   because no one Gives a crap.  if thats what you want, Well you got it.

My advise is make it as fast as you can because WE OWN EVERYTHING!! You own Nothing and the sooner you get this the better you will Position yourself for the future because no matter what you think, it's gonna change and come back to us..  That I will guarantee or die trying.


I would rather make 800 Million and take care of the people who made that happen than make a Billion.  All you owners have to get your head straight. 50/50 or nothing!!!  No Business makes a better margin than that. You can't? Then business is not your forte"

I wish you the best of Luck and also My Comrades whom I will always support regardless of there opinions.

Laurin Rinder.

« Reply #119 on: May 29, 2014, 00:40 »
+8
"The purpose of this email is to tell you that based on the quality of your images, you are among only a few contributors that have been selected to participate in this test program."

Well, looks like we all received the email, so they are lying to us.  :-\ Disgusting. Email subject "Exciting news" ?!?!?! Shame.

« Reply #120 on: May 29, 2014, 00:42 »
+10
"This email is sent to you under a private beta campaign, please keep it confidential."

Or how about... "We are trying to cheat you into giving us some free images, please don't tell anyone."  :-X

« Reply #121 on: May 29, 2014, 00:53 »
+1
I'm starting to wonder if Lisa was right and I'm wrong...

Where is Lisa? What happend? What did I miss here?  ???

Rinderart, that above is the best post I've read lately!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 01:08 by Ariene »

stockphoto-images.com

« Reply #122 on: May 29, 2014, 01:17 »
+3
A personal Note to Achilles...
....

Thanks Laurin!

Dook

« Reply #123 on: May 29, 2014, 01:22 »
+3
Great post Laurin Rinder!

Ron

« Reply #124 on: May 29, 2014, 01:30 »
+3
A personal Note to Achilles...

My friend I've been with you since day one But...The time has come to tell you and anyone else reading and listening to whats going on lately has to Know.....

Achilles....Without us, You and your site is dead and I mean dead. You and the other sites biggest issue is , You and others still after all this time have no clue or respect for what we go through to give you our hearts and soul through our work, The time and Money we invest in supplying you with your income and vast income. We own everything...You and all the other sites own Nothing But server space and some furniture. The sooner you and all the other greedy sites realize this the better off you will be going forward. FT set off a firestorm and It's about time, I've been saying since 2006 we have to unite and we Finally are.

This is not going to stop and I prey it doesn't. This crap cannot go on and I will spend whatever time it takes to alarm everyone about the continuing injustice we have been through.


If any site cannot make a decent profit with product they don't make themselves at a 50/50 split from every dollar then maybe it's time to do something else.


The Gravy train is over my Old friend, We are starting to rise up and I Prey we don't stop....Is it to late? well ya. We were lazy and let this happen. But Im afraid FT and now you have awoken a sleeping Giant and Thank God it's about time.

Ya better hear this Achilles and Oleg and Jon. Those of us that do the work, Invest in our craft deserve more. There is no creative agency anywhere that takes more than 50% of any artists work.

You can spin this anyway you want, and this message is not about your new test program...it's about Our future, Not the gullible newbies that are happy getting 20 cents or whatever....You want to target them Like the others? Go for it.

245,000 Images are new just this week on SS. WHY?   because no one Gives a crap.  if thats what you want, Well you got it.

My advise is make it as fast as you can because WE OWN EVERYTHING!! You own Nothing and the sooner you get this the better you will Position yourself for the future because no matter what you think, it's gonna change and come back to us..  That I will guarantee or die trying.


I would rather make 800 Million and take care of the people who made that happen than make a Billion.  All you owners have to get your head straight. 50/50 or nothing!!!  No Business makes a better margin than that. You can't? Then business is not your forte"

I wish you the best of Luck and also My Comrades whom I will always support regardless of there opinions.

Laurin Rinder.
Love this !!


 

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