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Author Topic: "Confidential" email from Dreamstime  (Read 39759 times)

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Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2014, 12:01 »
+15
At least it isn't as shady and behind-your-back as the Google deal, but this is unethical either way. Here's some proper feedback and tips for DT:

1) You can't expect contributors to willingly hand over images for testing purposes without any form of direct compensation; the 'promise' of retroactively paying contributors is too vague and unprofessional. Usually this is a 'red flag' in the freelance designer world: "we pay you when we like it or once we're making money on this". Freelance designers get that crap all the time. You wouldn't ask a plumber to work for free, now would you?
2) In order to get contributors along, give them a fair compensation.
3) If you can't cough up the dough beforehand, get better financial backing. Or, if this is promising to be 'the biggest partnership a stock company could hope for', negotiate a better payment plan with your partners. If they aren't willing to invest in this plan, it isn't a promising plan to begin with.
4) The notice is too late. Only 5 days to opt out of some vague test plan? That should've been 30 days.
5) Give us more information: how long will this test run, how will the images be used/sold, what's in it for contributors? We want hard facts, not vague promises that sound too good to be true. Contributors are no fools.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 12:10 by Noedelhap »


Dook

« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2014, 12:02 »
+4
I can opt out only all partnerships. Can I opt out only this ridiculousness?

« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2014, 12:05 »
+6
I used to like DT but now I must wait till August end to say good bye... (6 months after last upload).

What the h... is going on with this market?!  :-\  >:(  ???

Tror

« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2014, 12:11 »
+4
OK, since this got out, here are a few details.

1. This is confidential because we're under an agreement. The email says that. We've always been transparent. We did our best to share more, our partners didn't agree.
2. This is NOT free. Once the partnership ends, we evaluate results and negotiate best royalties given the volume. The real deal will begin then. We plan to do our best to pay royalties retroactively.
3. We don't get paid for the test either, there is no scam. Just like you, we've adding our infrastructure and we've been working on this for quite a while.
4. We did tests like these in the past and we paid the royalties ourselves. This is a large size  project and we can't support them, even if the scale of the initial test is small. 0.01% of something huge could still be significant. We need our contributors support and we sent them an email asking for that. You can opt out, nobody is forcing you to accept.

Again, I'm sorry for not being able to share more. I'm actually very enthusiastic about it since this could be the biggest partnership a stock agency can hope for. It could turn out into a great deal, unlike other negative examples that sadly, you've been exposed to.

Thank you for your support.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify the situation here Achilles. And good to know that in the end it wont be a free deal.

« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2014, 12:19 »
+23
I understand that Dreamstime is testing a new opportunity to generate revenue and they need to see how this goes before deciding if it's worth it, what kind of money they can charge for this use and what kind of commission to pay. However, I do not agree that this kind of testing should assume free image use. If someone is using my image in online add, during test run or not, I should be compensated.

« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2014, 12:21 »
+19
I dont believe in any great deals and partnerships anymore. They are always so excited whenever they announce something new... IS, DP, FT, now even DT.. The agencies are so obssessed with great deals that they completely forgot about the protective role which they should play, as our agents. I would like to see the major agencies join forces and fight all those scumbag sites which offer our images for free. Instead the agencies only fight each other, come with with crazy new deals or start to offer our precious content for free too. I dont know where this will end, it is going downhill really fast :-/

« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2014, 12:38 »
+3
If they had given some details, depending on those I would decide.

As they gave none, I have to assume the worst - this is something like DPC. Opted out immediately.

« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2014, 12:39 »
+5
I am glad they don't like my work enough to give it away for free.

« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2014, 12:40 »
+5
"The purpose of this email is to tell you that based on the quality of your images, you are among only a few contributors that have been selected to participate in this test program."

What's the meaning of the word few? Probably thousands of contributors?!
If you can't give us more info, why are you lying us?
I'm out of all your Alliances!

« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2014, 12:44 »
+13
They asked 81 images from me.
I opted out.

Not because I don't believe this "deal" can be a big nice opportunity, but because most "BIG DEALS" mean "LOW commissions".
The bigger the customer, the better the deal ... for the customer.
Perhaps it's Google again, trying to find a new partner after the Istock-disaster  ;)

Main problem is of course that if we opt out because of this e-mail, all other partners also loose our images.
If Dreamstime does not like that, they 'd better make 2 Opt-out buttons :  1 for the Secret Deal, and 1 for all other alliances.

« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2014, 12:46 »
+12
I'm on the fence.

I do appreciate the fact that they at least informed those of us included and provided an opt out up front.  However, I'm disappointed that I have to opt out of all alliances just to avoid this "free" one.

I am pleased that Achilles came here and provided some additional information.  I'm especially pleased that he's said they intend to provide retroactive royalties for usage.  However, I'm not happy that no information is given regarding the amount of those retroactive royalties, when they might be provided and under what conditions DT would elect not to pay them.

So far DT has not been quite the jerks some of the other sites have been so I'd like to think there is a level of trust there that they would like to work on keeping.  However, we've been taken advantage of a lot lately and its harder than ever to trust any agency.

I hope Achilles will come back and offer some information about timing and potential retroactive compensation.  I'd also like it if DT would provide an opt out that was only for this test or "free" tests like it.  If those things happen, I'm likely to stay opted in and give them the benefit of the doubt.  Otherwise, I'll probably opt out to protect my 20 files.

Shelma1

« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2014, 12:58 »
+12
I didn't get the email, but I opted out anyway. I come from the world of big ad agencies where we pay people for their work. I expect to be paid.

« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2014, 13:02 »
+1

Ron

« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2014, 13:19 »
0
I didn't get the email, but I opted out anyway. I come from the world of big ad agencies where we pay people for their work. I expect to be paid.

same here

Quote
Your portfolio is NOT enrolled.

U11


« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2014, 13:31 »
+6
what about people who missed the email for any reason?
They are automatically in! This is a dirty trick
The participation should be in full consent with "I agree"

« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2014, 13:42 »
+7
Let's all take a breath...

The email said "small scale beta test program."

When anything in the IT world is being rolled out it gets beta tested to a small group before it goes to the masses.  And typically the people beta testing the software do not pay for it. 

This is an evaluation period.  Picture an ice cream supplier giving one of those tiny taster spoons to the food buyer at Wal-Mart.  The supplier isn't going to ask Mr. Purchasing Executive to pony up a quarter before he gets his taste.  The supplier knows that if Wal-Mart likes what it tastes, it could result in an enormous, game-changing order.

I believe in DT.  They have been good to me over the years (and of course, I have been good to them.)  If this came from an agency I believe is shady, I would take a skeptical view of this. 

DT has a BIG fish on the line, trying to reel it in and create an potentially enormous payday for all of us.  Think for a moment before you try to cut that line.

As for me, DT selected a HUGE amount of my images to run in this test, and I'm ALL IN.

The rest of you can demand your quarter for the taster spoon.


« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2014, 13:43 »
+3
Main problem is of course that if we opt out because of this e-mail, all other partners also loose our images.

Don't you think it's a sign?! IF partner sites loose valuable images, that may mean they should offer us better comission and OPEN DOORS...
IMO.

We've been talking about that in DP case, and any other microstock with PP program... the monster needs images to live! Our images. The problem is that microsites forget that lately.


Btw. I opted out all I could (of PP sites), anywhere, long time ago. If some agency wants to earn money with me, why not work directly? One middleman taking 70% or more from my $ is enough. I don't need any special 10 agents in that chain.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 13:48 by Ariene »

« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2014, 13:59 »
+20
I do wonder why Dreamstime doesn't just use their own free stock photo site for this "small scale" testing.

http://www.stockfreeimages.com/ has almost a million images to test.

« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2014, 14:01 »
+4
DT has a BIG fish on the line, trying to reel it in and create an potentially enormous payday for all of us. 

In this metaphor, the big fish being reeled in represents US.  The big payday would be for THEM.




Tror

« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2014, 14:10 »
+1
Let's all take a breath...

The email said "small scale beta test program."

When anything in the IT world is being rolled out it gets beta tested to a small group before it goes to the masses.  And typically the people beta testing the software do not pay for it. 

This is an evaluation period.  Picture an ice cream supplier giving one of those tiny taster spoons to the food buyer at Wal-Mart.  The supplier isn't going to ask Mr. Purchasing Executive to pony up a quarter before he gets his taste.  The supplier knows that if Wal-Mart likes what it tastes, it could result in an enormous, game-changing order.

I believe in DT.  They have been good to me over the years (and of course, I have been good to them.)  If this came from an agency I believe is shady, I would take a skeptical view of this. 

DT has a BIG fish on the line, trying to reel it in and create an potentially enormous payday for all of us.  Think for a moment before you try to cut that line.

As for me, DT selected a HUGE amount of my images to run in this test, and I'm ALL IN.

The rest of you can demand your quarter for the taster spoon.

Usually, I love to complain about whatever any agency does, but in this case you might be right. It can be a good deal for us too. If it is not, we still can opt out.

« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2014, 14:17 »
+9
Let's all take a breath...

The email said "small scale beta test program."

When anything in the IT world is being rolled out it gets beta tested to a small group before it goes to the masses.  And typically the people beta testing the software do not pay for it. 

This is an evaluation period.  Picture an ice cream supplier giving one of those tiny taster spoons to the food buyer at Wal-Mart.  The supplier isn't going to ask Mr. Purchasing Executive to pony up a quarter before he gets his taste.  The supplier knows that if Wal-Mart likes what it tastes, it could result in an enormous, game-changing order.

I believe in DT.  They have been good to me over the years (and of course, I have been good to them.)  If this came from an agency I believe is shady, I would take a skeptical view of this. 

DT has a BIG fish on the line, trying to reel it in and create an potentially enormous payday for all of us.  Think for a moment before you try to cut that line.

As for me, DT selected a HUGE amount of my images to run in this test, and I'm ALL IN.

The rest of you can demand your quarter for the taster spoon.

Usually, I love to complain about whatever any agency does, but in this case you might be right. It can be a good deal for us too. If it is not, we still can opt out.

It's not clear you can opt out once it begins - if you want to opt out you have to do it within the next few days, after that, what? And how will you know whether or not it has been a good deal for you? You don't even know when the trial period is.
How can you know that "it can be a good deal for us too", when you don't know what the customer is, what the nature of usage is, what the method of earning is (could it be click-through advertising?), what the percentage payout would bea, what the earnings potential per usage is, whether the main benefit is financial or "exposure"?
That's my problem. If Serban could present the facts then I could make an informed decision. Right now, there is no way of making an informed decision because he won't tell us what he is asking us to do.

« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2014, 14:20 »
+6
I have also always liked DT. I just don't want to give away my images for free.

This is completely different to what IS and FL pulled, we have been informed and given an opt out.

I may not like the idea of putting my work in but good on DT for the way they have done it. Reminds me of the Yay streaming idea. Didn't like that either but as long as we are given the choice they can do what they like, just not with my images.

« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2014, 14:22 »
+13
Let's all take a breath...

The email said "small scale beta test program."

When anything in the IT world is being rolled out it gets beta tested to a small group before it goes to the masses.  And typically the people beta testing the software do not pay for it. 

This is an evaluation period.  Picture an ice cream supplier giving one of those tiny taster spoons to the food buyer at Wal-Mart.  The supplier isn't going to ask Mr. Purchasing Executive to pony up a quarter before he gets his taste.  The supplier knows that if Wal-Mart likes what it tastes, it could result in an enormous, game-changing order.

I believe in DT.  They have been good to me over the years (and of course, I have been good to them.)  If this came from an agency I believe is shady, I would take a skeptical view of this. 

DT has a BIG fish on the line, trying to reel it in and create an potentially enormous payday for all of us.  Think for a moment before you try to cut that line.

As for me, DT selected a HUGE amount of my images to run in this test, and I'm ALL IN.

The rest of you can demand your quarter for the taster spoon.

I agree. We should look at the history of the agency to make a decision. It's certainly bad time as we are all too jumpy after recent events. I must be one of the most jumpy one, deleting my port from both FT and DP,  so fast that i practically donated to DP about 30$ that got stuck as unpaid payment even though i could just wait for a few days to get to the payout threshold, but i couldn't wait. But this is because they both have very shady, abusing history. 
Dreamtimes on the other hand has so far been a fair agency. And the tests like this, i am sure those shady agencies have been doing all the times without us even know about them. DT could have just kept silence about it. How would you even find out?
I am afraid that our reaction may actually push those few good agencies  to the point to hide from us. Things like DPC is bad enough for good agencies to stay in business. We should fight bad agencies by supporting the good ones. I am not saying that this test will turn out to be something good for us, but i am willing to give them the benefit of doubt.

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2014, 14:33 »
+1
Well-stated Goofy! That's what they need to do. Ask us our opinion. We should be treated as equals if they want us to respect them.  :(

Why not post this concept/idea to us in the first place- than use our 'Feedback' to decide if the venture is worth it for both us and your company. You will be surprised how smart we are and fair!

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2014, 14:42 »
+2
Maybe so. However, a "good agency" is relative. It depends on one's opinion. For example, I believe a "good agency" pays the artist at least 50% of the sales.

Let's all take a breath...

The email said "small scale beta test program."

When anything in the IT world is being rolled out it gets beta tested to a small group before it goes to the masses.  And typically the people beta testing the software do not pay for it. 

This is an evaluation period.  Picture an ice cream supplier giving one of those tiny taster spoons to the food buyer at Wal-Mart.  The supplier isn't going to ask Mr. Purchasing Executive to pony up a quarter before he gets his taste.  The supplier knows that if Wal-Mart likes what it tastes, it could result in an enormous, game-changing order.

I believe in DT.  They have been good to me over the years (and of course, I have been good to them.)  If this came from an agency I believe is shady, I would take a skeptical view of this. 

DT has a BIG fish on the line, trying to reel it in and create an potentially enormous payday for all of us.  Think for a moment before you try to cut that line.

As for me, DT selected a HUGE amount of my images to run in this test, and I'm ALL IN.

The rest of you can demand your quarter for the taster spoon.

I agree. We should look at the history of the agency to make a decision. It's certainly bad time as we are all too jumpy after recent events. I must be one of the most jumpy one, deleting my port from both FT and DP,  so fast that i practically donated to DP about 30$ that got stuck as unpaid payment even though i could just wait for a few days to get to the payout threshold, but i couldn't wait. But this is because they both have very shady, abusing history. 
Dreamtimes on the other hand has so far been a fair agency. And the tests like this, i am sure those shady agencies have been doing all the times without us even know about them. DT could have just kept silence about it. How would you even find out?
I am afraid that our reaction may actually push those few good agencies  to the point to hide from us. Things like DPC is bad enough for good agencies to stay in business. We should fight bad agencies by supporting the good ones. I am not saying that this test will turn out to be something good for us, but i am willing to give them the benefit of doubt.


 

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