Author Topic: "Confidential" email from Dreamstime (Read 62132 times)

rene · « **Reply #175 on:** May 29, 2014, 15:52 »

Common' DT, be serious.
In 2014 you want to test a revolutionary idea of advertising online?
Check if a jpg image can be embedded in HTML page?
Opt OUT.

Gel-O Shooter · « **Reply #176 on:** May 29, 2014, 15:55 »

Quote from: Mantis on May 29, 2014, 15:50

I will respond to you this way. DT keeps about 70 percent of each sale and I am expected to now bend over and give then another percent or two for a beta test that they should be funding through their marketing budget? Really?

Wish I could give this one more than one heart. ++++++

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #177 on:** May 29, 2014, 16:35 »

This notion that the forums (and I assume by extension the people posting in the forums) are inherently negative is steaming horse pucky.

If people are suspicious or flinch after a long series of outright lies, underhanded takebacks from previous contract terms and changes that overall decrease the income the creator of the artwork receives, is it really those people who are negative?

Really?

It is the actions by agencies that are the problem(s), not the attitudes of participants in this forum.

And asking for freebies with the promise of future exposure, future expansion of the market etc. is like all the lies told in a bar around closing time - you stop believing them after you've been fooled a time or two.

Rinderart · « **Reply #178 on:** May 29, 2014, 16:46 »

I hear ya Jo Ann. My rant was frustration Mostly and the sense of Losing what we have now. It's just all to much for me to take in. DT has always been a strong #2 for me.
Never had problems and agree with there removing Non selling work. it's just stuff building up. Im really tired. Photography has been My occupation forever and I get very sad sometimes. Im just concerned for us all.

heywoody · « **Reply #179 on:** May 29, 2014, 16:49 »

Quote from: michaeldb on May 28, 2014, 22:49

In 2005, Dreamstime was the first site where I made enough for a payout. I remember wondering if this microstock thing was for real and if I could trust them and whether they would really send me real money. They did, and they have never given me personally any reason to distrust them in the nine years I have done business with them.

Some of the posts here seem a little over the top. Do people here really believe Serban is a "crook"? I have always admired his success and the way he runs his business. I hope this beta test works and I make some money from the ensuing deal. In the meantime, I don't mind if 154 of my images (out of 2229) are used in a limited trial and I don't get paid if the deal fails to materialize. My images aren't gold or diamonds or the cure for cancer. They are just clipart. If you hate DT, leave. If you don't want to participate in the beta test, then don't. It was just an invitation. Not the end of the world.

Agree – not the smash & grab we’ve seen elsewhere, a very small number of images notified in advance with the option of opting out.

Maybe not a good idea but no sense of anyone pulling a fast one here.

leaf · « **Reply #180 on:** May 29, 2014, 16:50 »

Quote from: Axel Lauer on May 29, 2014, 07:05

@Leaf
thanks for your private message where you informed me that you deleted one post out of this thread.
May i ask what post it was and why you think that it is "offtopic"?

As far as i see this thread is not only about the new "business model" - it is about the general question if DT is trustworthy or not.
And if i try to get an answer from achilles why DT still sells our images although even an attorney has been hired it is definitely not "offtopi" because it shows the level of "trust" DT deserves.

Of course i realized that you are one of just few who claims for understanding against DT in this thread.
May i ask with all the given respect if there is a closer relation between you and DT than you have with other agencies?

The post that was removed that was off-topic was where you started talking about your personal problems with dreamstime... essentially what you've just posted again. I suggest you take it up with Dreamstime directly or through your lawyer. You also have mentioned this in a seperate thread you started and elsewhere. We don't need to start the discussion in this thread. This thread, as the subject states, is about the email that Dreamstime sent out and the partnership deal.

I have the same relationship to Dreamstime as I do with the other agencies.. the same relationship that every other contributor has.

gbalex · « **Reply #181 on:** May 29, 2014, 17:14 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on May 29, 2014, 16:35

This notion that the forums (and I assume by extension the people posting in the forums) are inherently negative is steaming horse pucky.

If people are suspicious or flinch after a long series of outright lies, underhanded takebacks from previous contract terms and changes that overall decrease the income the creator of the artwork receives, is it really those people who are negative?

Really?

It is the actions by agencies that are the problem(s), not the attitudes of participants in this forum.

And asking for freebies with the promise of future exposure, future expansion of the market etc. is like all the lies told in a bar around closing time - you stop believing them after you've been fooled a time or two.

Exactly it is like blaming a group for bleeding after someone has stuck them squarely in the face multiple times with a large 2X4 board.

It is not much different than telling them, you have no right to bleed all over the place.

cthoman · « **Reply #182 on:** May 29, 2014, 18:13 »

To me, it makes a lot more sense to be skeptical about a deal these days than to walk into it with blind faith. I'm kind of surprised people would agree to it, but I guess nothing should surprise me anymore.

LesPalenik · « **Reply #183 on:** May 29, 2014, 20:45 »

Quote

"The purpose of this email is to tell you that based on the quality of your images, you are among only a few contributors that have been selected to participate in this test program."

>> Well, looks like we all received the email, so they are lying to us. $:-\$ Disgusting. Email subject "Exciting news" ?!?!?! Shame.

It takes a real genius to come up with a letter like this. Almost as brilliant as the statement from FT that they will compensate for the DPC fiasco by paying EL's on DPC. How does it feel to send out such offers?

Those bright minds should take a course how to write respectful and effective emails. What will they come up with next?

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #184 on:** May 30, 2014, 00:30 »

Quote from: stockmarketer on May 29, 2014, 15:14

There is NO risk in this beta test. The ACTUAL risk is in it not going well and the partner not wanting to proceed.

You read that right... there is NO risk to you! This is for an online advertising platform. Testers of this program would NOT be buying your images elsewhere if they didn't have access to them through this test. They just wouldn't be running ANY images in their ad if it weren't for this test. You are out NOTHING. And DT says they will actually try to compensate you for images used in the test! What have they done to you to earn your mistrust?

Everyone is fixating on these few weeks of POSSIBLY unpaid image usage during the beta test!!! Don't you see the forest for the trees?!! Do you really want this to fail? Imagine who this big player could be and what this could mean!

STockmarketer, are you a DT employee? I guess you must be because you are the only one on this board who knows that there is no risk, that it is a "big fish" they have "hooked", that it will mean a lot more money for all of us if we are in it and it is a success, etc. etc., that it won't be something that sucks lots of other agencies into "great deals" where we might get paid a lot if it succeeds.
You clearly know the sort of sums of money involved, that it isn't a click-through scheme, that we will get a good commission percentage etc. etc. ... in fact, all the things that DT refuses to tell us about. Therefore, I presume you are informed about details of the deal.
Either that, or you are building castles in the air.

Axel Lauer · « **Reply #185 on:** May 30, 2014, 01:24 »

Quote from: Lucadp on May 29, 2014, 14:18

Quote from: stockmarketer on May 29, 2014, 13:57
Quote from: Lucadp on May 29, 2014, 13:23
Quote from: stockmarketer on May 28, 2014, 13:42
Let's all take a breath...

The email said "small scale beta test program."

.....

As for me, DT selected a HUGE amount of my images to run in this test, and I'm ALL IN.

The rest of you can demand your quarter for the taster spoon.

+1
I'm IN

What? You mean you're not panicking over a beta test that could allow a few of your images to be downloaded by testers at no cost for a few weeks (even though we're told we could still be compensated for these)? Haven't you heard that the world is ending? How dare an agency, by most accounts one of the "good ones," try to land a deal that could potentially mean many more sales for us in the long run? The nerve!

ehm...no

i'm too busy in more important things...create new images, improve my works, find new market niches...

ah....interesting.....create new images to give away for free
Maybe you should read a good book some how and then. A bit of math or Wittgenstein to become more logical would suit

Lucadp · « **Reply #186 on:** May 30, 2014, 01:43 »

@Axel
interesting ... you have access to my accounts?
You know how much I earn?
anyway thanks for the advice

I respect your decision and I think you should respect my choice.

Axel Lauer · « **Reply #187 on:** May 30, 2014, 03:02 »

Quote from: Lucadp on May 30, 2014, 01:43

@Axel
interesting ... you have access to my accounts?
You know how much I earn?
anyway thanks for the advice

I respect your decision and I think you should respect my choice.

I dont know what you earn and i dont care about what you earn.
I know that you are working very hard - to get to the point that you (and we all) will earn nothing!!
And one thing i know for sure.
That people with your opinion ("i have better things to do than to care if someone gives away my images for free") will ruin the mean of existence of every serious photographer.
Either your work is so low level that there is no need to care about or you just bite the hand that feeds you without even knowing what you do.

Lucadp · « **Reply #188 on:** May 30, 2014, 03:21 »

@Axel
i'm not giving away my images for free. I've opted out others 'deals' (dpc), but i think that, for now i can give my trust to DT. If it is not
the case i'll opt out, you can be sure of this.
And i'm not ruining anything, so, please stop you with this ridiculous accusation.
Peace and love

I have nothing else to say.

topol · « **Reply #189 on:** May 30, 2014, 03:33 »

Quote from: Achilles on May 29, 2014, 03:22

The email we sent was created by our legal department and our partners'. It's still our email and I won't pass the guilt on someone else: I'm sorry if it doesn't provide the information you want. This is what we were allowed to share. We tried to say more, but this thread is the sad proof that things can't be kept confidential.

Is this deal good? Yes, if it works well, it will be very good. If it doesn't or it's unfair, then it will not be allowed to run any further. If it goes well, everyone gets paid. If it doesn't, then it means the potential was not there, end of story.

How long it will run? Probably a few weeks, maybe more, maybe less. How large it is and why we didn't support it ourselves? Look at the size of our database, envision a larger partnership. Try to put things into perspective.

As for Dreamstime and its royalties. We still award 60% royalties to our exclusives like in day one.

Again, nobody is forcing you to participate. Feel free to opt out if the deal is not for you. Be respectful and you will be respected.

Imagine going into a business conference or meeting of investors and their lawyers, offering all this vagueness...

You would be out the door in under a minute: "Is this some childish joke?"

emblem · « **Reply #190 on:** May 30, 2014, 03:34 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on May 30, 2014, 00:30

Quote from: stockmarketer on May 29, 2014, 15:14

There is NO risk in this beta test. The ACTUAL risk is in it not going well and the partner not wanting to proceed.

You read that right... there is NO risk to you! This is for an online advertising platform. Testers of this program would NOT be buying your images elsewhere if they didn't have access to them through this test. They just wouldn't be running ANY images in their ad if it weren't for this test. You are out NOTHING. And DT says they will actually try to compensate you for images used in the test! What have they done to you to earn your mistrust?

Everyone is fixating on these few weeks of POSSIBLY unpaid image usage during the beta test!!! Don't you see the forest for the trees?!! Do you really want this to fail? Imagine who this big player could be and what this could mean!

STockmarketer, are you a DT employee? I guess you must be because you are the only one on this board who knows that there is no risk, that it is a "big fish" they have "hooked", that it will mean a lot more money for all of us if we are in it and it is a success, etc. etc., that it won't be something that sucks lots of other agencies into "great deals" where we might get paid a lot if it succeeds.
You clearly know the sort of sums of money involved, that it isn't a click-through scheme, that we will get a good commission percentage etc. etc. ... in fact, all the things that DT refuses to tell us about. Therefore, I presume you are informed about details of the deal.
Either that, or you are building castles in the air.

Does sound a bit like an employee doesn't he....shades of Matt.

ingwio · « **Reply #191 on:** May 30, 2014, 04:42 »

I first opted out to decide in peace. After I read all these posts, I have decided to participate in the test. I want to give a chance to the test at DT.

I see the risk that the new licensing methode results in a competition with the other existing licensing procedures at DT or at the other agencies and my earnings are further reduced. Therefore, I will decide again after the test, when we have more information about the tested new licensing procedure. And perhaps I would decide to leave one or more agencies completely, especially those who have lowered my license shares in the past...

viorel_dudau · « **Reply #192 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:16 »

As I am an employee of Dreamstime, I can confirm that stockmarketer is not.

You keep talking about the deal, let me clarify that: there is no deal. Yet.

There will be some tests for a possible, future deal. The success of this deal pretty much depends on your enrollment in the tests, cause, like Rinderart said, you guys own everything. If you want the deal to be successful and earn more in the near future, you should opt in for the tests. I think it's a fair agreement: you provide the content (which costed money to produce), Dreamstime provides human and technical resources (which costs money), know how and the ability to do business with big companies, for free, during the tests. All for a possibility to earn more, both from your perspective and ours.

We all want to earn more, but that doesn't come that easy. You must be able to give something in order to get something back. It's pretty much what we're all doing (I'm also a contributor) from the first step into a stock agency: we upload our images without knowing if we'll ever going to sell anything. The agency has the same risk: it provides the human and technical resources without knowing if there will be a positive return in the end.

Businesswise, if Dreamstime wanted to make a shady deal, you wouldn't have been asked in the first place, just like the other recent happenings in other places. We don't have such a record and we're not interested in getting any. Fair and square, a small group out of 184,000 contributors have been invited to participate. You can either participate or opt out. It's your choice, but bear in mind that participating means higher chances for getting the deal done and earning more in the future. Dreamstime has always been about the community. If you want to earn more as much as we do, join the tests and let's make it happen for both sides of this business.

Ron · « **Reply #193 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:19 »

Quote from: viorel_dudau on May 30, 2014, 05:16

As I am an employee of Dreamstime, I can confirm that stockmarketer is not.

You keep talking about the deal, let me clarify that: there is no deal. Yet.

There will be some tests for a possible, future deal. The success of this deal pretty much depends on your enrollment in the tests, cause, like Rinderart said, you guys own everything. If you want the deal to be successful and earn more in the near future, you should opt in for the tests. I think it's a fair agreement: you provide the content (which costed money to produce), Dreamstime provides human and technical resources (which costs money), know how and the ability to do business with big companies,for free, during the tests. All for a possibility to earn more, both from your perspective and ours.

You take 70% of the profits already, just fund your own beta tests with that money. Why do we need to fund the beta test out of our 30%?

And why are you not using your million free images??

stealthmode · « **Reply #194 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:28 »

Quote from: viorel_dudau on May 30, 2014, 05:16

As I am an employee of Dreamstime, I can confirm that stockmarketer is not.

You keep talking about the deal, let me clarify that: there is no deal. Yet.

There will be some tests for a possible, future deal. The success of this deal pretty much depends on your enrollment in the tests, cause, like Rinderart said, you guys own everything. If you want the deal to be successful and earn more in the near future, you should opt in for the tests. I think it's a fair agreement: you provide the content (which costed money to produce), Dreamstime provides human and technical resources (which costs money), know how and the ability to do business with big companies, for free, during the tests. All for a possibility to earn more, both from your perspective and ours.

We all want to earn more, but that doesn't come that easy. You must be able to give something in order to get something back. It's pretty much what we're all doing (I'm also a contributor) from the first step into a stock agency: we upload our images without knowing if we'll ever going to sell anything. The agency has the same risk: it provides the human and technical resources without knowing if there will be a positive return in the end.

Businesswise, if Dreamstime wanted to make a shady deal, you wouldn't have been asked in the first place, just like the other recent happenings in other places. We don't have such a record and we're not interested in getting any. Fair and square, a small group out of 184,000 contributors have been invited to participate. You can either participate or opt out. It's your choice, but bear in mind that participating means higher chances for getting the deal done and earning more in the future. Dreamstime has always been about the community. If you want to earn more as much as we do, join the tests and let's make it happen for both sides of this business.

This would make perfect sense if we were equal partners. But since we earn 30% and you 70% we are not! Please, start to pay 50% to independents and then we can discuss splitting costs and earnings and risks. Please note that most of us are professionals that have heard this kind of "deals" many times before.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #195 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:29 »

a small group of 184k contributors, ain't that a little too much for a simple test? and for sure over 1M files? is there a company who needs that much? use the free images!

Ploink · « **Reply #196 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:35 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on May 30, 2014, 05:29

a small group of 184k contributors, ain't that a little too much for a simple test? and for sure over 1M files? is there a company who needs that much? use the free images!

He wrote: "...a small group out of 184k contributors..."

stockmarketer · « **Reply #197 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:37 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on May 30, 2014, 05:29

a small group of 184k contributors, ain't that a little too much for a simple test? and for sure over 1M files? is there a company who needs that much? use the free images!

Luis, you missed a word... "a small group OUT of 184k contributors."

Fair and square, a small group out of 184,000 contributors have been invited to participate.

peresanz · « **Reply #198 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:38 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on May 30, 2014, 05:29

a small group of 184k contributors, ain't that a little too much for a simple test? and for sure over 1M files? is there a company who needs that much? use the free images!

"small group out of 184,000 contributors"

viorel_dudau · « **Reply #199 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:42 »

DT doesn't take 70% of the profits, not even of the sales. The 70% out of independents' sales must cover also the referrals, partners, human resources, technical resources, advertising, taxes and so on. And let's not forget that exclusives get 60% out of any sales. Even more, you can compare our subs with other agencies' subs and decide for yourself who pays more on a sub from the day one a contributor joins the agency.

You don't fund the beta test alone, Dreamstime pays for the people and technical resources required as well. And we're not getting the 70% either. While you don't have to do anything more than you already did (uploading the images), we have to pay more for the resources involved in the test.

Let's face it, the free images are good, but not good enough to impress a partner or a customer.

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Author Topic: "Confidential" email from Dreamstime (Read 62132 times)

rene

Gel-O Shooter

Jo Ann Snover

Rinderart

heywoody

leaf

gbalex

cthoman

LesPalenik

BaldricksTrousers

Axel Lauer

Lucadp

Axel Lauer

Lucadp

topol

emblem

ingwio

viorel_dudau

Ron

stealthmode

luissantos84

Ploink

stockmarketer

peresanz

viorel_dudau

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