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Author Topic: "Confidential" email from Dreamstime  (Read 61540 times)

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« Reply #275 on: May 31, 2014, 08:02 »
+2
A lot of people seem to be wetting the bed on this one. DT did the right thing and asked permission first. Give them a break. They wanted short term use of a few files so they could test something that might make us more money. I don't have a problem with that. Just like any other investment I make in my business, I have to spend a little now in hopes of gaining more later. The investment is small and short term.


« Reply #276 on: May 31, 2014, 08:02 »
+12
At this stage DT (Achilles) knows how we feel.  It's early and they have been more or less fair to contributors relatively speaking.  I wasn't selected to participate so it doesn't affect me THIS TIME.  I still think it is a raw deal when they already keep so much of the sale. But maybe, just maybe the outpouring of anger and frustration from this thread will serve to help our longer term relationships with DT.  In my mind they haven't necessarily destroyed anything with us like FT or DP.  One of the reasons I am giving DT a little more slack regarding my longer term relationship with them is that my guess is the design of this beta has been in the works for awhile, before May 1 D-day.  I don't know this for sure, of course, but it's me gut feel.  If they were to start crafting a new beta TODAY, maybe they wouldn't have made this silly move.

Really, I am trying to convince myself that DT is still a good, long term partner, and I believe they are.  FT is not, DP is not. Those two have earned the burnt crust brand.

« Reply #277 on: May 31, 2014, 08:04 »
+13
A lot of people seem to be wetting the bed on this one. DT did the right thing and asked permission first. Give them a break. They wanted short term use of a few files so they could test something that might make us more money. I don't have a problem with that. Just like any other investment I make in my business, I have to spend a little now in hopes of gaining more later. The investment is small and short term.

While having your nuts in a vice.  If you don't like it, you need to OPT OUT of ALL partner programs, not just this one. When partner sales go against image ranking that is a direct killer of revenue, future revenue simply by forcing you to delay pushing your files up in rank due to lack of partner sales.  That's a sh1tty deal.

« Reply #278 on: May 31, 2014, 09:34 »
+6
A lot of people seem to be wetting the bed on this one. DT did the right thing and asked permission first. Give them a break. They wanted short term use of a few files so they could test something that might make us more money. I don't have a problem with that. Just like any other investment I make in my business, I have to spend a little now in hopes of gaining more later. The investment is small and short term.

While having your nuts in a vice.  If you don't like it, you need to OPT OUT of ALL partner programs, not just this one. When partner sales go against image ranking that is a direct killer of revenue, future revenue simply by forcing you to delay pushing your files up in rank due to lack of partner sales.  That's a sh1tty deal.

It's like, what, 12 files? 20? I looked at the ones they wanted to use for me, and only a couple were sellers. So it seems to me that if the other partner programs were so important to you, it makes little sense to opt out over 12 rarely sold images that will be used in a short-term test project. You all can click the minus all you want, but it seems to me that a lot of people just don't want to be reasonable anymore.

« Reply #279 on: May 31, 2014, 09:45 »
+2
A lot of people seem to be wetting the bed on this one. DT did the right thing and asked permission first. Give them a break. They wanted short term use of a few files so they could test something that might make us more money. I don't have a problem with that. Just like any other investment I make in my business, I have to spend a little now in hopes of gaining more later. The investment is small and short term.

While having your nuts in a vice.  If you don't like it, you need to OPT OUT of ALL partner programs, not just this one. When partner sales go against image ranking that is a direct killer of revenue, future revenue simply by forcing you to delay pushing your files up in rank due to lack of partner sales.  That's a sh1tty deal.

It's like, what, 12 files? 20? I looked at the ones they wanted to use for me, and only a couple were sellers. So it seems to me that if the other partner programs were so important to you, it makes little sense to opt out over 12 rarely sold images that will be used in a short-term test project. You all can click the minus all you want, but it seems to me that a lot of people just don't want to be reasonable anymore.

Yes and what about when they fully launch? If we don't want to earn 20 cents (or whatever that royalty will be) for this program we have to opt out all of our images. This initial thing is the principal of what they are asking of photographers.  If you happen to not want your images in it (any many don't) they have to opt out all of their images.  But when I look at what's to come (and that is speculation because Achilles won't kiss and tell) and I don't like it, then what?

« Reply #280 on: May 31, 2014, 09:50 »
+1
You'd be in the same boat you're in now, except you don't know it would be bad. They aren't going to drop the test no matter what if there's money to be made.

« Reply #281 on: May 31, 2014, 10:08 »
+7
After much consideration i have opted out. This is because many of my chosen files are good sellers, but mainly, it's because i dont know if the deal would turn out good or bad for me. I am not saying DT is misleading or something, simply, a good deal for them may not be a good deal for me, just  like, a good deal for many contributors here may not be a good deal for me.
Having said and done that, i must say I will support DT when whenever i could, not on this one as i do not have enough information. I haven't lost trust in them. I really dont understand the hostility in this thread toward DT. They are treated exactly the same as FT with DPC deal. I dont think DT belongs to the same group as FT, DP and IS, or not yet anyway. They dont deserve this hostility. I am afraid, at this rate, at some point even Pond5 would be on the chopping board. Actually, there are people already complaining about Pond5 here, which i dont really understand. There is no "perfect" agency. It's impossible to please everyone and stay in business at the same time. We should see what is the most important things we need from agencies. For me, it's the trust.

« Reply #282 on: May 31, 2014, 10:10 »
+5
So the only reason to opt in is to spite your fellow contributors? Good bases for a business decision.

Not out of spite towards other contributors but because I think DT deserves a chance to do the right thing and I'm willing to give it to them.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 10:13 by ComfortEagle2095 »

« Reply #283 on: May 31, 2014, 10:11 »
0
@robhainer
i cant say that often enough:
People who accept everything (even if someone gives away their images for free) are responsible when the business goes fubar.

« Reply #284 on: May 31, 2014, 10:22 »
+5
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.

« Reply #285 on: May 31, 2014, 10:26 »
-2
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

CJH

« Reply #286 on: May 31, 2014, 10:26 »
+5
 I had 6 or 8 selected.  All but one were level 0s, meaning no sales for several months.  The other had 1 sale.  I don't see a huge risk in letting these be used for a test program-they are generating $0 for me now.   

It's unfortunate there is so much info not released, but that is probably because the potential partner new it wouldn't be kept confidential, so I get it.

It seems to me the stock industry needs to move to new business models and that is going to take some experimentation.

My only complaint is the tone of the email was over the top with flattery.   I would have appreciated a more matter of fact presentation.

« Reply #287 on: May 31, 2014, 10:31 »
+5

It's like, what, 12 files? 20? I looked at the ones they wanted to use for me, and only a couple were sellers. So it seems to me that if the other partner programs were so important to you, it makes little sense to opt out over 12 rarely sold images that will be used in a short-term test project. You all can click the minus all you want, but it seems to me that a lot of people just don't want to be reasonable anymore.

They are nicely and up front telling you your going to participate and if you don't then you have to pull all your images out of all the affiliate programs. Just another strong arm tactic. If they really thought they had something good (for all of us) we would have received a confidential email asking to use the chosen images in a beta test with some idea of the potential. NOT penalizing us for not participating. This strong arm tactic gives me no reason to believe it will be any different if the program becomes an official program.

If this is your business and the way you pay your bills then any business person that wants to stay in business does not invest product in a business model they have no clue what the potential or return might be. What if it is another deal like the Getty deal and instead of marketing to bloggers they are marketing to corporate advertising. I have no clue but that is the point. As a business I will not invest in a opportunity I have no clue what the impact will be. It could be good or it could be another program that continues the spiral to the bottom.

« Reply #288 on: May 31, 2014, 10:32 »
0
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

After you send me money for all of my equipment and time spent on my images, then you can sit in judgment and tell me what to do.

Ron

« Reply #289 on: May 31, 2014, 10:34 »
+11
I think Rob has reasonable arguments and he has been around for a while, so I guess he knows whats best for him personally. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions, but the personal attacks are unneseccary. Keep it civil folks, otherwise Leaf will lock the thread and its important to keep these communication channels open and centralised without any personal vendettas. Cheers.

« Reply #290 on: May 31, 2014, 10:41 »
-2
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

After you send me money for all of my equipment and time spent on my images, then you can sit in judgment and tell me what to do.

yes - and I shoot without camera and equipment - be serious

ethan

« Reply #291 on: May 31, 2014, 10:51 »
0
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

After you send me money for all of my equipment and time spent on my images, then you can sit in judgment and tell me what to do.

You have stated on this and other forums that stock photography for you is a hobby. You also confess to also being an average photographer - your words not mine.

And I would not disagree with your view about that.

Assuming you have a full time occupation and this 'stock thing' is just for 'pin money' your views on the DT deal is bound to be completely different from others here that make their living from photography.

I really don't have a problem with guys like you making a few bucks from your hobby.

But please respect the views of full time photographers that depend on selling their images to live and support their families.

You might want to take a moment to think about that Mr Hainer while you're spending your pocket money and ask not why we judge you.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 10:58 by ethan »

« Reply #292 on: May 31, 2014, 10:58 »
-5
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

After you send me money for all of my equipment and time spent on my images, then you can sit in judgment and tell me what to do.
You bite the hand that feeds you!
I have never met a person who is so resistant against that very simple point.
If you go on like that you cant even afford a plastic camera in future - not to talk about any reasonable gear.

People like your ruin the mean of existence of all of us because you turn down the spiral to the bottom.
Do you like it to bend down lower with every day??

« Reply #293 on: May 31, 2014, 10:59 »
0
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

After you send me money for all of my equipment and time spent on my images, then you can sit in judgment and tell me what to do.

You have stated on this and other forums that stock photography for you is a hobby. You also confess to also being an average photographer - your words not mine.

And I would not disagree with your view about that.

Assuming you have a full time occupation and this 'stock thing' is just for 'pin money' your views on the DT deal is bound to be completely different from others here that make their living from photography.

I really don't have a problem with guys like you making a few bucks from your hobby.

But please respect the views of full time photographers that depend on selling their images to live and support their families.

You might want to take a moment to think about that Mr Hainer while your spending your pocket money and ask not why we judge you.

well said - we has to be aware that we could be shot by both sides - agencies and some conributors


« Reply #294 on: May 31, 2014, 11:01 »
+5
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

After you send me money for all of my equipment and time spent on my images, then you can sit in judgment and tell me what to do.

You have stated on this and other forums that stock photography for you is a hobby. You also confess to also being an average photographer - your words not mine.

And I would not disagree with your view about that.

Assuming you have a full time occupation and this 'stock thing' is just for 'pin money' your views on the DT deal is bound to be completely different from others here that make their living from photography.

I really don't have a problem with guys like you making a few bucks from your hobby.

But please respect the views of full time photographers that depend on selling their images to live and support their families.

You might want to take a moment to think about that Mr Hainer while you're spending your pocket money and ask not why we judge you.

Actually, I'm a full-time photographer. Stock photography is just one revenue stream. About 15-20 percent of my annual income. I use it to put food on the table. I think you have me confused with someone else.

So maybe you should have respect for my views, too.

« Reply #295 on: May 31, 2014, 11:10 »
+25
guys, the mudslinging at eachother is not doing anything to the value of the discussion - could you take that elsewhere please?

ethan

« Reply #296 on: May 31, 2014, 11:13 »
+4
guys, the mudslinging at eachother is not doing anything to the value of the discussion - could you take that elsewhere please?

Agreed. Back on topic :)

ethan

« Reply #297 on: May 31, 2014, 11:31 »
+1
guys, the mudslinging at eachother is not doing anything to the value of the discussion - could you take that elsewhere please?

Agreed. Back on topic :)

Not true
It is definitely "ontopic" if peopledo not understand that willling into every "deal" - anyhow meagre the result is - ruins our existence.
And his own too.

@robheiner
Do you love your family??
Why dont you take care of them in a way that you have food on their table not only today but as well in some days?

Axel, I think Mellimage point is valid that the 'mud slinging' (making it too personal) was detracting from the core topic of this thread. I think he is right. If the thread turns into a fight people that have valid comments will just turn away and not involve themselves in this important topic.

Let's keep it clean and lets keep it measured. Sure you're angry about other 'photogs' going along with giving stuff away for free and even trying to justify it but they have a right to their views. Even if they are bonkers :)

« Reply #298 on: May 31, 2014, 11:34 »
-1
I'm OK if you guys want to make it personal if it makes you feel better. But really, it's not personal and I'm entitled to my opinion.


it is not personal - you are working against the interest of majority of us - so don t be astonished if we condemn your attitude...

After you send me money for all of my equipment and time spent on my images, then you can sit in judgment and tell me what to do.

You have stated on this and other forums that stock photography for you is a hobby. You also confess to also being an average photographer - your words not mine.

And I would not disagree with your view about that.

Assuming you have a full time occupation and this 'stock thing' is just for 'pin money' your views on the DT deal is bound to be completely different from others here that make their living from photography.

I really don't have a problem with guys like you making a few bucks from your hobby.

But please respect the views of full time photographers that depend on selling their images to live and support their families.

You might want to take a moment to think about that Mr Hainer while you're spending your pocket money and ask not why we judge you.

Actually, I'm a full-time photographer. Stock photography is just one revenue stream. About 20 percent of my annual income. I think you have me confused with someone else.

No I don't think so. I quoted comments you have made previously on Shutterstock forums.

It would also appear your views aren't too popular there either if you don't mind me saying.

And if you are indeed a full time photographer (as you now appear to be saying) then I have no comment.

Mouth open.

.... I don't think so... too................... - and my income is 100% ms

« Reply #299 on: May 31, 2014, 11:39 »
+6
please respect the views of full time photographers that depend on selling their images to live and support their families.

Two things:

1. Nobody in microstock can seriously make this argument with a straight face. ETA: because microstockers already did it to those earning a good living selling stock at higher prices.

2. If your markets are genuinely sustainable and economically viable then they will not depend upon you persuading people to do this or that.

There are more and more microstock pictures every day. The more of something there is, the less you can realistically expect to get paid. Microstock is the basic (no added value) stock product and is clearly moving ever closer towards being free at the point of delivery IMO.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 12:01 by bunhill »


 

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